Dear Frank
Can I call you Frank? This is just pastor to pastor. Feel free to call me Peter. Anyway, I have to say I was flattered when I learned that your Decision America Tour took a detour off the beaten path to call upon us “small community churches.” We are nothing if not small. We seat 30-40 on a good Sunday. And we are a century old fixture of our small community. Most often we are overlooked and overshadowed by mega-churches and politically influential religious voices like your own. We don’t hold a candle to an auditorium filled with the music of a one hundred voice choir led by professional musicians. We probably will never be recognized in any nationally syndicated media. After all, we don’t do anything really “newsworthy.” We just preach the good news of Jesus Christ; love one another the best we can (which sometimes isn’t very well); feed the hungry that come to our doors; care for the sick; comfort the dying; and bury the dead. So thanks for thinking of us. Rest assured, we are ready to respond to your calls to prayer and action.
I have to say, though, that I was a little confused by your summons. Of all the things that worry me, loss of religious freedom for Christians in America isn’t one of them. I can’t say I have ever experienced anything in this country that could reasonably be called a restriction on my religious liberty, much less persecution. When you started talking about attacks on Christianity, I thought you might have been referring to the racially motivated slaying of pastors and lay people at Mother Emmanuel church in Charleston some time back. Or I figured you were referring to the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Egypt this past Palm Sunday. That’s what I call persecution. But having to pay a judgment for refusing to bake a cake for a same sex couple in violation of the law against discrimination? This you call persecution? There’s a letter in the Bible, written by the Apostle Peter (ever heard of him?). He’s an expert on persecution, having been on the receiving end of it more than once. He says you don’t get divine kudos from suffering the consequences of breaking the law-even if you are a Christian. Moreover, there is a Christian fellow named Paul (aka Saul) who wrote a letter to a church in Rome nearly two thousand years ago. He said that if your enemy is hungry you should feed him (that’s in the Bible too). So wouldn’t it have been the Christian way to have baked a cake for the same sex couple in your example, even if you deem them enemies (another assertion I don’t quite understand)? I’m confused.
But in any event, Frank, let’s get over this persecution complex. Stop with the drama already! You are not under attack just because you have to follow the rules like everyone else. Look, I understand the owners of this establishment you mention in your speech don’t approve of gay and lesbian people getting married. They don’t have to approve of them. But if they are going to do business in this country, they have to follow the law against discrimination-just like the rest of us. If you don’t like the rules, don’t join the game. It’s that simple. Furthermore, I don’t understand why baking a cake for people whose conduct you find personally offensive is such a big deal. Heck, Frank, if all of us small church pastors refused to bury everyone whose conduct we didn’t approve of, the country would be ten feet deep in corpses!
I am struggling, too, with your claim that Donald Trump is a champion (albeit an unlikely one) for religious freedom. What freedoms are we talking about here, Frank? The freedom to lie with impunity? The freedom to grab young girls by the genitals? The freedom to discriminate against people of color in the sale and rental of real estate? The freedom to refer to women as “dogs,” “fat pigs,” and “ugly”? The freedom to call your opponents “idiots,” “losers,” “liars” and “frauds”? The freedom to slander people with accusations of criminal conduct based on absolutely no evidence? By my count, the above violate at least four of the Ten Commandments (you will find those in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy-both in the Bible). If Donald Trump is the champion of American Christianity, God save it from its enemies!
All kidding aside, you might be right about God putting Donald Trump in the White House-though your reasons for so believing are probably different from what I might conjecture. Still, how do you know that? Where did you get this info? I have to hand it to you, Frank, you sure do have the connections. As I am sure you know, God does not consult with us small church pastors on weighty issues of that kind. So it was kind of you to leak this classified intelligence to all of us who are evidently a good deal further away from the divine pipeline. So let me see if I have this figured out correctly: God doesn’t give a flying fruitcake if we deprive twenty-million people, most of them poor, of access to health care. Nor is God particularly concerned about how men treat women in the workplace, how people of color are treated in the real estate market, how the hungry and homeless are cared for (or not), but God flips out if we bake a cake for a same sex couple to celebrate their wedding? I have to be honest with you, Frank. I’m just not seeing it. Not in the Bible, not in the realm of rational common sense.
Here’s the thing, Frank. At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes. His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us. No, I didn’t get that from any private chat with God. We small church pastors have to rely on the Bible for our intel. I got this stuff from the Gospel of Matthew, 25th Chapter to be precise. As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.)
You know, Frank, I would like to think that we are brothers. I would like to believe that we are on the same side. I would like to believe that, beneath our differences, we worship the same God and follow the same Savior. But quite honestly, I don’t recognize the Jesus I learned from my parents, my Sunday School teachers, my pastors or my years of study and reflection on the Bible in your angry, fearful rhetoric. Yes, I will answer your call for prayer. But I will be praying for the real victims of persecution-the victims of racial discrimination, sexual violence and bullying. I will answer your call to action. But I will be acting to establish health care as a right for all people; making the college campus and the workplace spaces where women and girls need not fear being called “pigs,” “dogs” or “ugly” nor will they need to fear rich, white celebrity males who feel entitled to grab them by the genitals. I will respond to your call for action by working for a society in which no one needs to worry about where she will sleep at night or where the next meal is coming from. You want prayer? You want action? You’ve got it.
Well, thanks again, Frank, for thinking about us small church folk. I appreciate your concern about our being persecuted and under attack. But don’t worry about us. We don’t have your money, your access to the halls of power or your seeming direct connection to the Almighty. But we have the scriptures, we have prayer, and we are learning every day what it means to love God with all our hearts, souls, minds and strength and to love our neighbors as ourselves. That’s all we need. You can keep your champion in the White House, thanks just the same.
Christ’s servant and yours,
Peter
Peter's Outer Cape Portico 
thank you so much for writing the truth. Franklin is such a disappointment.
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Franklin Graham isn’t a disappointed, it’s the other way around.
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Oh look, a pretend Christian
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Are you claiming you ARE a Christian? How can you not support what Peter has stated? Yes, Franklin Graham should be considered a huge disappointment to the Christian believers.
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Why would Franklin be an embarrassment to Christians? He has spent his life preaching the Gospel, helping the poor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, assisting refugees and displaced people, and providing aid to victims of hurricanes, earthquakes, civil conflict and terrorist attacks. And he speaks the truth, decrying injustice and unrighteousness, just as Christ did.
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I’m thinking the same thing Rhoda.
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He’s always been Elmer Gantry. Always.
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I seriously doubt that Elmer Gantry ever risked his life in the many hell holes of the world where Rev Franklin has gone to bring help and hope tho those who are suffering from serious spiritual and physical need.
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Yes, Rhoda, Thanks.
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Huh???? I have honk he is riding on daddy’s coat tails . And.. will never catch up!
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Oh,I’m sorry. Ok, Graham Franklin is a disappointment. There,fixed it for you.
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yes, and if a shop doesn’t want to make you a cake…this is still America…go elsewhere..President Trump is no Saint, as you,sir aren’t either.We neeeed a President who loves and WANTS to do what is RIGHT(at least we are hopeful)…And h by the way….how are you on the killing of innocent babies ????Sick of knuckleheads like you”pastor”
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you are a flat out JOKE, LADY!! God fearing christian? bet you fear everything then.
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What disrespect, you called him Frank. Should be Rev. Look in the mirror, calling him out, but you could be called out to.
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Good help you man
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Thanks so much, Pastor Peter. I was wondering if I was the only Christ-
follower that had issues with the rhetoric spewed by Franklin Graham.
I am amazed at the number of naysayers commenting on your scripture based open letter to Franklin Graham. Matt 7:22 reads: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works.
I will continue doing what 2 Chronicles 7:14 says “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
Thanks again, Pastor Peter.
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Connie, The verse you quoted is an excellent verse. It should apply to all, including (and in this case, perhaps, especially) those who make false accusations against a fellow servant of God. “By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if ye have love one for another”.
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Connie, you are not alone!! There are lots of us out here who agree with you.
Did you happen to notice that there are over 2900 comments on this post? Pastor Peter touched a nerve!
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“Hit a nerve” is an understatement, Judy. One has the right to challenge any doctrine or teaching. We have that freedom in Christ. We do not, however, have the right to falsely malign anyone with statements which are not true. There are those here who have falsely accused a brother in Christ. One can understand those outside the body of Christ making false allegations, slander and raising straw man fallacy arguments. That is to be expected. And there are certainly those outside the body of Christ who have been commenting on this forum. Such false accusations are to be expected from them. But this should not happen within the body of believers, and when it does, that needs to be addressed.
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Ah Mel – hi again. Your whole comment assumes that FG is right in all he does. I do not think so; therefore, I do not believe he has been ‘falsely accused.’
But then we’ve been here before, and you knew i’d think this.
And I guess with so many comments on Peter’s post, neither you nor I can be said to stand alone.
Merry Christmas, Mel.
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Judy, I certainly do not think that Reverend Graham is perfect in all that he does. He, like everyone, makes mistakes. And when he has done so, I have never been afraid to talk to him face to face about them. He has always been gracious and thankful for any advice or admonishments I might have given. But he is not guilty of ignoring, or neglecting the passage in Matthew 25, which speaks of giving to the hungry, the poor, the naked, tne sick, etc. That is the false accusation in this letter which needs to be addressed.
And Merry Christmas to you too! I do hope you have a wonderful season enjoying God’s perfect gift to mankind. 🙂
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I noticed there is a lot of bickering. That is not of God. God is a spirit, therefore, reading and trying to interpret His Word using our intellect, will not work. Some of these posts are from people who might know the Word, but lack the ability to interpret it. I have on many occasions, written FGrahamasking him for scriptures that justified his support of trump. No response to date. The Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:15: “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” If we do that, we will know when someone is spewing false doctrines. If I can’t find Word to back up what a “pastor or minister” says, I don’t digest it. FGraham, by no means, is of the same spirit of the late great Rev. Billy Graham. I grew up listening to him. He had the greatest impact on my life.The Bible speaks for itself; times will change, but the Word of God remains the same. Therefore, there should be no need debating about it. Merry Christmas, everyone
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
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Merry Christmas to you also.
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mccalopc. Your post begs the obvious question…if “bickering is not from God”, and, in your view, we are all bickering, then why are you joining in the fray?
I am happy to hear, however, that you do have some respect for the Rev Billy Graham. That is heartening. It may, however, surprise you that this true man of God, who has always displayed a morally upright walk with God, who has brought many people to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, and was renowned for his honest integrity — the late Rev. Billy Graham — fully endorsed the work and the ministry of his son Franklin. There was no disagreement or (to use your word) “bickering” between them on what Franklin has said, or is doing! Rev Billy Graham endorsed both Rev Franklins global humanitarian ministries, as well as his advocay for those being persecuted and mistreated by the state, and his call for a return to Christian morality in our public spheres, including the issues referred to in the letter which sparked this blog.
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Thanks so much for sharing your feedback. However, I made several points in my post that I stand by. I do not debate with people when it comes to the Word of God. As I said in my post, God’s Word speaks for itself. I beg to differ with you regarding certain statements you made; however, I respect your right to make them. I also respect people’s right to choose with regard to their sexual preference, abortion, etc, although I may not agree with their chouce. If I am misreading God’s message on this regard, He will let me know. I have made my last statement regarding this issue with you. I pray God’s peace for you and your family.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
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mccalopc. Thanks for your reply. I’m glad to know that you believe the Bible speaks for itself. I would agree with you. So would Rev Franklin Graham. That is why he speaks the truth in love! I also agree with you that sexual prefernce is a choice. However, to say that to anyone who is LGBTQPRSMPN risks a barrage of angry arrows of vituperative invective, based on the dogmatic assertion from our cultural elite that it is not a choice. I’m glad that you and I, (and Rev Graham) agree on that point. As for abortion, I would argue that the choice is there prior to pregnancy. Once the mother is pregnant, there is an innocent humah being with the right to life in the womb. It is not a “choice”, it is a child. And, since you added “etc”, let me ask you. Would you say that the desire of US plantation owners in the USA to own a slave was also a legitimate “choice”? Should these plantation owners have been given the same right to choose (which was exactly the thrust of their argument). “If you don’t like slavery, don’t own a slave But don’t force your morality on me!”
I’m glad that you are open to God’s instruction in the case that you are mistaken. Just be ready for it when it comes. 🙂 Have a very Merry Christmas!
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I so agree with you.. And I know this isn’t a big thing what I’m going to say next, but this pastor is showing disrespect to Franklin by calling him Frank, and then telling Mr. Graham to read the Bible, he may like it.. Those remarks right there tells me that this pastor is NOT living the TRUTH of God’s Precious Living Word… This pastor needs our prayers, that his eyes be opened to see the very TRUTH of God’s Word…
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Dear Pastor Peter,
Thank you very much for your email. It is wonderful that someone else feels the way I feel about Franklin Graham and, some evangelical Christians whom I have followed since I was young. I was an avid follower of Pastor Graham. I grew up in Africa, as a young covert then, my friends and I followed brother Billy Graham at any apportunity that we could get. I love politics and news, bought anything that had brother Graham’s name on it. We loved and and respect him. Recently, I have given up on our evangelical leaders who have compromised the Cross of Christ by allowing a man who tucked his children away somewhere and yet insult Brother Classic, his wife and children and many others in everyway. The latest casualty of his insult was Joe Boden.
Christians have been silent on the matter, he harassed President for years, his followers scattered bombs in his opponents offices and homes, he did not condemned it, instead he went on with his rally. The only person who refused to bully by him was Senator McCain whom belittled even in death. Press secretary Sanders has taking to being agressive these days in her desperate to protect the president. The problem is that the world is watching. Thank God for leaders like Mitt Romney and those leaders who are speaking out. The earth is the Lord’s and He has not given it to any politician definitely not to someone who has no respect for God nor the rule of law in an attempt to stay in power at all cost. May the Lord help us. God bless you and all those who Love the Lord.
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Thanks for your comments Ann. We are not alone. More evangelicals each day are seeing through Rev. Graham’s hateful rhetoric and the religion of fear he proclaims.
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PETER..or may I call you Pete?
How many people attend your church? Was that a typo was 30-40 or 300-400? If it is the 30-40, I feel your frustration, but do not take it out on”Franklin”.
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Thanks for your comment Elizabeth. And yes, you can call me Pete. By the way, I was baptized and raised in a small church. I have served small churches throughout all of my ministry. Now in retirement I am a member of a small church. Small churches are wonderful, lively and close communities of faith. Serving them has been a joy and privilege. Of course, large churches also do fine ministry and I have nothing against them. To be honest, though, I’m not sure I would know how to be the pastor of a congregation of 300 to 400. Not my spiritual gift.
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Franklin, I am not half the man I father was. In my opinion, neither are you. Sad for both of us.
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How could anyone disagree with this small church pastor?? Trump is a Fake!!’
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Rhoda did you not read the letter to Frank and have you not followed at least some of the atrocities performed by Frank? Taking $1,200,000.00 a year in salary is just the beginning of the shysters torment on Christianity…
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I’m totally on board with you. This knucklehead says at the day of Judgement, Christ isn’t concerned with “sexual orientation, how many times you’ve been divorced,….ONLY how we fed the poor,…” What a fool. Jesus burned down Sodom for “sexual orientation”. Jesus told us that divorce was unpermited under ANY circumstances….
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Thanks for the comment, S. But I’m not the knuckle head here. It’s Matthew the Evangelist. Go back and re-read Matthew 25. See any questions about sexual orientation or divorce at the last judgment? I don’t. And if divorce is not acceptable under any circumstances, how do you explain the three marriages of what Rev. Gramp calls the “champion” of Christianity? Also, Sodom was not destroyed because of its citizen’s sexual orientation (which we don’t know), but for the same reasons for which the “goats” are rebuked in Matthew 25. Ezekiel 16:48–50. I’ll conclude with the same advice I gave Rev. Graham. Read the Bible before you go preaching on it.
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Revolsen. Your suggestion to actually “read the Bible” is a good one. It is important to be true to the text of Scriptures, whether we like it or not. In fact, the Word of God has been descibed as a “sword” which pierces our hearts and as a mirror which reveals the ugly dirt on our face. So lets look exactly at what the Scriptures teach about the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah. Here is the exact words (NIV translation) of Ezekiel 16:49-50: “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.” So you are correct that the passage in Matthew where Jesus shows us the great day of judgment when the sheep are separated from the goats reflects what these verses in Ezekiel teach. Clearly there is a progression of evil (arrogance, over fed, and unconcerned) which leads to ignoring the plight of the poor and needy That is something which the Reverend Franklin Graham does not do, as millions of poor and needy people all over the world can testify to the life giving assistance they have received through his work at Samaritan’s Purse. But the passage here does not end with ignoring the pleas of the poor and needy. It goes on to highlight what follows this uncaring apathy to those who are truly “the least of these”. And this is the “haughty spirit” which was pervasive in Sodom and Gomorrah and much of America today. And then, the clincher — “did detestable things”. These “detestable things” are distinct from the lack of caring for the needy, though they begin with that. They are a sin which is different, and, it would appear, is the “last straw” before God’s judgment.
You may not believe what the Bible is teaching and you might have been led to believe that it means something altogether different. But an honest reading of this passage leads many to infer that what the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were doing went beyond lack of caring for the poor and needy (clearly an evil condition) to something more “detestable”. There are other passages which add to this understanding of the sin of these doomed cities, and this is understood by Christians all over the world to be the case. The question is: do they have the right to believe what they think the Bible clearly teaches?
One last thing! You mentioned Rev Graham’s description of Donald Trump as the “champion” of Christians. But you have twisted that to imply that Rev Graham is condoning the sins of adultery and divorce which are a part of Donald Trump’s past. Once again, this is misleading. Donald Trump is a champion for Christians in the same way that the Persian emperor, Ahasuerus was a champion for the Jewish people. It was the concern of this emperor, who loved his power, wealth and women, which saved the Jewish people from annihilation. Read the book of Esther. Its in the Old Testament but has a powerful message for today. In the same way, Donald Trump has protected Christians all over the world. He has spoken out on their behalf, he has limited the power of groups like ISIS and Boko Haram which are engaged in genocidal destruction against Christians, and he has supported the religious freedom of Christians in America. He, like you and me, has his faults and a sinful past.
But the message of hope in the Word of God is that Jesus came to save sinners!
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Hello Mel, always good to hear from you. Strange that you would think God can tolerate the starvation of the poor, but when somebody has same sex, God throws an apocalyptic temper tantrum. If homosexuality realy is the sin that is the “last straw” for God, wouldn’t you think Jesus would have mentioned it in his parable of the last judgment? In fact, wouldn’t you think he would have mentioned it at some point in his ministry? A pity he didn’t. It would have saved you the trouble of having to “infer” from the Ezekiel text what clearly isn’t there. And as for Rev. Graham, it looks as though the people are starting to see through the emperor’s new cloths. Have you read about the petition signed by 12 K calling for his removal as CEO from Samaritan’s Purse?
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The text in Ezekiel 16 clearly says: “detestable things”. And these “detestable things are distinct from the other sins which are mentioned, including being over fed, arrogant, neglecting the poor and needy. So what are these “detestable things? Other passages in the Bible shed light on this, including the original account in Genesis 19. In Jude it is clear that the sins — the detestable things — of Sodom and Gomorrah were sexual in nature. (Jude 7 – NIV)” In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”
But your question as to why this sin is not included in the Matthew 25 account is a good one. In Matthew, we are given a glimpse of the great and final judgment of every human being on earth. And not every sin is mentioned, including others which are clearly listed in the Ezekiel text. There is nothing in Matthew 25 on being arrogant or over-fed, nothing on being haughty, and nothing on the “detestable things” which the people of Sodom and Gomorrah engaged in. Nor does the passage in Matthew 25 give us an exhaustive list of all those considered “the least of these”. It specifies the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the sick, and the imprisoned. But it says nothing about other groups of people who clearly fit into this “least of these” category, including abandoned children, children who are enslaved, or trafficked for sexual pleasure or victims of sexual or phsycial abuse. It does not mention those falsely accused and sentenced to cruel oppression, ruinous lawsuits or the loss of livelihoods and income, or many other categories of people who suffer and are ignored or neglected by people who should be concerned. And no one fits this category of “the least of these” as the unborn child in America who is slated to be killed by America’s multi-billiion dollar abortion industry.
But I am certainly reluctant to infer that just because Christ does not mention these sins and categories of those suffering specifically in Matthew 25 that they do not matter to Him. Do you really think that the fact that Christ never said anything about the sin of racism means that Jesus is fully accepting of people being racist? On the contrary, Christ, while fulfilling the Mosaic ritual laws through His death burial and resurrection, not only accepted the moral laws provided in the Old Testament as valid but even raised the bar. Christ’s sermon on the mount made this very clear. No longer “an eye for an eye”, but “turn the other cheek”, and if you hate your brother you are guilty of murder, and if you even look at a woman with lust in your heart you’ve already committed adultery with her in your heart. Nothing that Jesus said gives us license to ignore or indulge in the things which were clearly defined as moral sins in the Old Testament, even though, obviously, He did not mention all of them in His teachings.
Also, the final judgment in Matthew 25 is about all of us as individuals. I think it is safe to say that Jesus focuses on what is in our hearts? What is it that we care about? Is it about our own ambitions, desires, lusts, or pleasure? Or is it a desire to help and care for others based on Godly love in our hearts? Matthew 25 makes it clear that those whose hearts have been tuned to the love of God are going to be caring about those who are suffering and in need, and not focusing on their own personal desires. As Matthew 25 makes clear, in the final day, God does NOT tolerate neglecting the poor and needy, or neglecting justice for those who are oppressed. In Ezekiel, however, God is warning the nation of Israel about its collective (corporate) sins, and pointing to how God dealt with Sodom and Gomorrrah. The message is very clear: if a nation (like Israel) continues to thumb its nose at God, and abandon His standards of righteousness and justice, then that nation will certainly reap what it sows.
As for the petition against Rev Franklin Graham, I’m surprised you would raise this. The petition is not based on any sin which he might have committed. No accusation of him having his hand in any salacious or lucrative “cooke jar”. No moral scandal. It is 100% political. There are many (as exhibited on this site) who hate Franklin Graham merely because of his political views. The fact that he supports the current president and actually prayed for him (in Jesus name) at a prayer breakfast triggers many — enough to want him removed. But it is his right to express his political views the same way any American citizen does. These days anyone who expresses support for Donald Trump is jammed and hated by many. Last week Keith Olberman, seen by many as a spokesperson for the Left, referred to Trump supporters as “maggots” (which is what Hitler called the Jews), and went on a rant calling for their “removal”. Hillary Clinton referred to Trump supporters as “a basked of deplorables”, and even Joe Biden called some of us “the dregs of society”. With this intentional incitement of hatred in the air, it is not surprising that someone as influential as Rev Graham, who supports Trump, would be targetted for “removal” by those triggered by TDS. I’ve certainly been the target of such hatred, and have been called many obscenities and insults (as have many of my friends who dare to speak out), for supporting what Trump has done and the direction he wants to take the nation.
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Mel:
Well, I don’t buy your inferences. Of course, I agree that gang raping an alien passing through your country is detestable. But is it any more detestable because the rapists are raping someone of the same sex? Do you really believe that if the Sodomites had taken Lot up on his generous offer to give them his virgin daughter and raped her till her ears bled, God would have given them a pass? I know God’s “champion” for Christians in America gets a “mulligan” for sexual assault from his right wing Christian brothers, but I have an idea God’s standards might be a little higher. Yours and Rev. Graham’s equation of my gay and lesbian friends, who are productive members of society, wonderful parents and, though I am sure you will tell me its impossible, deeply committed disciples of Jesus with gang rapists is beyond insulting. The fact is, no biblical figure has ever opined on whether a mutually loving same sex relationship precludes God’s blessing that relationship. That’s a fact. My inference? God cares a whole lot more about the way these wonderful individuals care for each other raise their children and serve their neighbors than their sexual techniques. I base that inference on Jesus’s life and ministry as well as the priorities of God he expresses in his parable of the last judgment in Matthew 25.
Furthermore, while I understand why Jesus would not give us a complete catalogue of sins in his parable, don’t you think that he would give us the big ones? If a sin is so offensive to God that God would burn up a couple of cities to punish it, I would expect that to be at the top of the list, wouldn’t you? What better time than the last judgment to put God’s priorities up front and center? Well, Mel, I think God’s priorities are up front and center in Jesus’ parable. God’s priority is the care we give our neighbors. As I told Rev. Graham, there are no questions asked about sexual orientation, how many times one was married, who did or who didn’t have an abortion or any of the other issues he thinks are paramount. (I know, I just gave you a springboard for your favorite issue. Have at it-again.)
And as far as the petition to remove Rev. Graham as CEO of Samaritan’s Purse, you bet your sweet life its political. Rev. Graham stepped into that circle when he threw his public support behind Donald Trump. I doubt anyone would have cared (or even known) how Rev. Graham voted or the political views he might have expressed about the 2016 election to his friends and family. But not only did he publicly throw his support behind Trump, he actively campaigned for him and went so far as to say that Trump was “God showing up on election day.” I can well understand why people who only want to support a ministry to the hungry, poor and needy would object to that ministry’s leader using his position to deify as God’s “champion” for Christianity” a man whose moral example is-let’s just say not what one would expect from a “born again” Christian. For reasons best known to himself, Rev. Graham decided to enter into the thick of presidential politics. When you play football in the big league, you don’t get to cry when you get hit.
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Dear Rev O –
Thank you, sir. Well stated.
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First of all, Rev Franklin Grahsm is not “crying” as you falsely allege. He knows perfectly well what is at stake. He is prepared for the fallout and has chosen to remain faithful to his beliefs, regardless of the consequences. To accuse him of “crying” is just another straw man that you’ve managed to find. Rev Graham should be lauded for standing his ground despite the groundswell of hatred and incited animosity aimed at him. Jesus warned us that this would happen when we stand for His principles. I’m sure Rev Graham is quite aware of this! Just like the early believers who refused to comply with the Emperor’s edict amd who insisted on saying that Jesus, not Caesar, is Lord, Franklin is remaining true to his beliefs.
God’s decision to judge Sodom and Gomorrah occured before the “rape” incident in Genesis 19. So that “detestable” act could not have been the determining factor. The previous chapter tells of how Abraham tried to bargain with God to get him to relent from His decision. The quest to find righteous people in the cities is the very reason the “aliens” were visiting there. So these “detesable things” must have been taking place before that dreadful night when the men of the town attempted to rape the “aliens”. I suggest you take your own advice — read the actual text.
You talk disparagingly about my (and Rev Graham’s) attitude about your “gay and lesbian friends, who are productive members of society, wonderful parents and, … deeply committed disciples of Jesus”. But if it were these types of people who were involved, this blog would never have developed. The incident which precipitated this entire discussion was not sparked by honest, neighborly people of noble character, (gay or otherwise). This is about two men who engaged in a malicious set up, launching an unprovoked attack against an innocent and honest Christian businessman in order to falsely portray him as being bigoted. It was a mean spirited attack on an innocent man in order to gain political mileage for a cause. These men were not ones who could “agree to disagree” on a matter of faith as any noble person should be able to do. Instead, they wanted to use the heavy hand (and misuse of) the law and a public trial to force others to believe the same way they do. They wanted to destroy the right of other people to disagree with their ideas and beliefs on what they hold to be sacred. When the state legal system backed this form of malice it did make it a form of persecution. The fact that Rev Graham recognized that for what it was (and you obviously didn’t) is what triggered you into writing your infamous letter.
I do agree with you that God’s priorities are front and center. That “helping our neighbors” is paramount, especially if those neighbors happen to be among “the least of these”. Those who care about their neighbors and “the least of these” will, in that day of judgment, be on the Right side of God, considered His sheep. Those who don’t, will be on His Left. Their lack of concern is evidence that their hearts are not where they should be, and when that happens, it leads to all kinds of evil. Where you and I obviously differ, is in who we regard as “the least of these”. Based on the teachings of Scripture, biological evidence and the historic witness of the professing church, I view the unborn child in America who is slated for death as certainly qualifying. For you, it would appear, that child is too “least” to qualify as “the least of these”.
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You are right, of course, that the attempted gang rape in Genesis 19 comes after God has already heard that “the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is grave.” Moreover, there is not mention whatsoever of which specific sins are involved. As there is an “outcry” against them, I suspect they were oppressing the poor-just as Ezekiel tells us. No evidence that sex of any kind was involved. The Bible simply doesn’t say what you want it to say.
I also do not believe there is anything “malicious” about insiting that you be treated with the same dignity and respect as everyone else, nor do I think one is being “forced” to agree with anything simply be complying with the rules governing commerce. There was a time, of course, when denying recognition to same sex couples was dominant in our culture-just as it was once customary to deny people of color services offered to white people. But that’s no longer the case. Once again, white, straight males are used to having the playground to themselves. Now they have to learn that it’s for all the kids. That’s not persecution. That’s life.
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Once again you are on very thin hermeneutical ice. You state: ” Moreover, there is no mention whatsoever of which specific sins are involved. As there is an “outcry” against them, I suspect they were oppressing the poor-just as Ezekiel tells us. No evidence that sex of any kind was involved.”. But that simply is not the case. Jude 1:7-8 clearly states that there was “sexual perversion”. Let me quote it again: “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion”. For sure, ignoring the plight of the needy was going on, as was arrogance, haughtiness and gluttony. And that, like the “love of money”, was the gateway to all kinds of evil. But Jude specifies “sexual perversion” Nor could this “sexual perversion” be referring solely to the attempted rape of the “aliens”. That is certain because that incident occurred only in one of the towns mentioned. But both towns which were condemned were listed in the passage in Jude.
Nor was the legal case in question which triggered you one of discrimination against any group of people. Once again, the issue was about “what” not about “who”. If a heterosexual couple or anyone else from any group had made the same request, they would have been treated exactly the same. That “what” was the firm belief in the Scriputure teaching on the sanctity of marriage which compliance with the request would have violated. It was not about refusing to serve homosexuals. The court records show that the baker who was sued had served homosexuals willingly on many previous occassions. It was the particular request to make a cake which would celebrate something which violated the direct teaching of Jesus Christ on the sacred marriage union.
Suppose someone from any minority group — one which is protected under whatever various “discrimination or hate laws” may exist in your state — comes to you and asks you, as a pastor, to bless their upcoming membership with Ashley Madison’s group in order to have a “blessed” time with their legal and often lauded program of adultery. Would you do so? And if not, and that person — from a protected minority group — sued you for discrimination and the state legal apparatus pursued you with ruinous legal fines, would you not object?
I have lived much of my life in countries where there are different cultural and religious beliefs in what constitutes a marriage. In many countries, polygamy is viewed as quite normal, certainly legal, quite desireable (at least for the men). I have many friends who believe that this is great and I have been invited to participate in the celebration of a man marrying his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wife. I have always declined based on my firm belief that this is not good and is not what God intended as His ideal for marriage. Would you agree? Yet never — not once — did any of these folk regard my refusal to participate as being odious. They simply understood that I believed differently than they did. They could “agree to disagree”. Never was a lawsuit foisted on me for discrimination or hatred because I didn’t agree with polygamy. Why should it be any different with any homosexual “marriage”?
The question you need to ask yourself is this: “Can Americans in “the land of the
free” truly practice the belief in the sanctity of marriage as defined by Jesus Christ (one man with one woman as cited in Genesis 2 and Matthew 19, til death do us part) without facing legal censure? If not, then it is the state, not the church, which defines what one can believe and not believe about what is sacred. And that is a clear violation of the separation of church and state.
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Oh Mel – just responding to your last paragraph – I do not see anyone preventing you from engaging in a “one man one woman” marriage but if you do, please advise. You are free to marry any woman who will freely choose to marry you, assuming you do not already have a wife. If you don’t believe in gay marriage, feel free not to marry a man.
And if you have a gay friend who is getting married and invites you to the wedding, I am certain your friend will not be surprised if you decline to attend. 🙂
I wonder if you have any gay friends.
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I am quite sure there was sexual perversion in Sodom and Gomorrah-among other things. But that hardly makes it “the last straw” as you asserted earlier. As I said before, Jesus doesn’t even mention it in his parable of the last judgment. Furthermore, same sex attraction is not a “perversion” of human sexuality. At least that is what the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Pediatric Association, the American Psychological Association and every other professional medical and therapeutic board whose specialties come close to this issue. Moreover, you cannot point to a single passage of scripture that addresses the question of whether a mutually loving and committed same sex couple cannot be afforded the blessings of marriage. Not one. All you have is “inferences.”
And no, I would not bless anyone’s upcoming induction into Ashley Madison (and I cannot imagine any alternative reality in which I would get such a request.) A church, as you know, is a religious institution and it’s right order its practices in accord with its teachings is protected under the First Amendment. We don’t advertise our sacraments and rites or “charge” people for weddings, baptisms or funerals. Now, if I were running a for profit wedding chapel offering my services to the public for a fee, the rules are different. What I offer to one, I offer to all. I can’t refuse to marry interracial couples, same sex couples or religiously mixed couples based on my personal beliefs. So to, if you bake wedding cakes for a living, you participate in commerce and commerce is governed by rules. Nothing unfair about that. If I pay taxes to pave the roads that carry your cakes to market, provide police and fire protection for your business, you don’t get to refuse your services to me just because you object to the perfectly legal but, in your personal opinion, morally odious purpose for which I want them.
Finally, as Judy said, if you are against same sex marriage, then don’t marry someone of the same sex. Problem solved. I have heard all of the hysterical screaming that legalization of same sex marriage will undermine the sanctity of marriage, by which I suspect they mean heterosexual marriage. After a couple of decades of legalized same sex marriage in my state, my own heterosexual marriage is just fine, thank you. I also have to wonder what desecrates marriage more: a same sex couple living together faithfully, raising their children and being productive citizens-or God’s “champion” for the Christian faith who ended his first two marriages through adultery and cheated on his third wife with a porn star even as she was bearing his child.
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Well at least you are now acknowledging that there was “sexual perversion” in Sodom and Gomorrah. Before you stated that there was no Scriptural evidence that the “detestable things” done in Sodom and Gomorrah were sexual in nature. So we are making progress. So if there was “sexual perversion” (as Jude clearly indicates there was), what kind of perversion and “detestable things” were they doing? Do you suppose that it as only “aliens who were being raped” in all of the cities? There is no indication that there were any other “aliens” who visited the other towns in the plains which were also judged. What was it? Are you prepared to base the health of your very soul on your hope that this sexual pervesion does not mean what the church and scholars throughout the ages have declared it to be? Are you really willing to put your faith in the American Medial Association and all the other pseudo-scientific bodies who canbe as politically motivated, (sometimes bought), as anyone else, and are often contradicting themselves? By the way, how many genders are there now? I heard, that there were 36, but then I heard it was over 72…I’ve even heard there is over 100 from these “experts”. The state of America’s medical community (as the Covid “pandemic” has demonstrated), leaves a lot to be desired It has been shon to be as easily manipulated by political forces as it is incompetent.. Sorry, when it comes to integrity, I’ll take the Word of God any day over these feuding bodies.
Also, you forget that there are highly qualified and competent professionals who strongly dissent with the rulings of these supposed “medical authorities” but their voices are suppressed.
You also stated: “Moreover, you cannot point to a single passage of scripture that addresses the question of whether a mutually loving and committed same sex couple cannot be afforded the blessings of marriage. Not one. All you have is “inferences.” So let me just throw that one back at you with respect to polygamy. Can you find any text in the Bible which condemns polygamy? or child brides? And there are many who would love to use that same argument you are using to promote these forms of “marriage” and sexuality.
Jesus gave us His ideal. It is not merely an “inference”, it is a very specific description: “‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’. In that passage (Matthew 19:5) Jesus was quoting from Genesis 2:24, a passage which predates the Mosaic Law, and which Jesus quoted to show God’s original purpose and design for that sacred union.
But that is not the point here. You are free to believe what ever you want to believe about what God’s purpose for marriage is. And I (and the baker and everyone else) should be free to believe whatever we see as the Biblical teachings on the sanctity of marriage. When there is freedom of religion, we are to respect one another’s beliefs, and people should not be forced to violate that which is sacred. We should not be forced to declare that “Caesar is Lord”, or bow down to the “golden image”, or be forced to violate anything which to us is sacred.
Nor is it just churches who enjoy the privilege of the First Amendment. Everyone is entitled to freedom of religion, freedom of thought, and freedom of expression. To say that an official of the church can refuse to endorse something to which they object but the common person on the street can not is simply to entrench a form of fundamental injustice. I, as a layman, should be just as free to refuse to bless a membership in Ashleigh Madison as you are. The Supreme court, fortunately, did not agree with your logic (or lack thereof) with respect to what business owners can be forced to do. Again, it is about “what”, not “who”. No one should ever be forced to violate something which goes against what they consider to be sacred.
And Judy’s argument (to which you refer) is not what is at stake here. I’m totally able to love and be friends with people whose theological beliefs about marriage and a host of other things are completely different than mine. The “agree to disagree” and get on with life and happiness argument, in fact, is MY (and Rev Graham’s) point of view which I am advocating for you. I am quite willing to live in peace with someone who is a polygamist, or someone who is in a homosexual relationship. But I will NOT participate in anything which promotes these. Why should I or anyone else have to do something which violates what they consider to be sacred?
And when you say to me: ” if you have a gay friend who is getting married and invites you to the wedding, I am certain your friend will not be surprised if you decline to attend” you are, in fact, admitting that the actions of those who sued the baker were not normal and were not cordial. This baker was “invited” to participate in their “wedding” by designing a cake for it. He declined. But, based on your own words, the men who sued him should not have been surprised. That proves my point that this was a set up. It was a predetermined move to gain political mileage out of something they knew would be a normal (and proper) response from someone who believed differently than they did. That is clear malice. It contradicts the neighborly ethic of “agree to disagree”, and it violates the Constitutional right of Americans to live according to their own consciences and respect their own firmly held religious beliefs.
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Sorry, Mel – being invited to celebrate your gay friend’s wedding and being asked to bake a cake for it are not at all comparable. Celebrating the wedding is not your business – it is a privilege extended to one’s friends. But a baker is in business and has an obligation to serve customers. Two entirely different things.
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You said: ” But a baker is in business and has an obligation to serve customers”. So a black baker who is asked to bake a cake for a party celebrating the election of a candidate who is a KKK member and outspoken anti-semite is legally require to do so? A first nations baker is required to bake a cake for an oil company celebrating the drilling for oil on his ancestral burial grounds? A gay baker is required to bake a cake for Westboro Baptist Church celebrating their legal successes? Standard Oil was right to sell oil to Nazi Germany, enabling it to strengthen its war machine? Business is business? Morality should never affect it? Really? Is that your view? Honestly?
Participating in any event which violates ones conscience, whether through attendance or the supplying of resources should never be a legal requirement for any business. Again, it is about “what”, not about “who”.
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Your examples are a little far-fetched. The comparison between the KKK and a committed sane-sex couple? Seriously??
And I still wonder so I will ask – DO YOU have any gay friends?
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Hello Judy. I figured it wouldn’t be long before you would show up.
Far fetched? Not at all. For one, I strongly suspect that the “couple” who were requesting the cake were not a “committed sane sex couple, caring for each other”. (I’m assuming you meant to say “same”, but maybe not). Rather they were activists hell bent on “breaking down the doors” to force their views on others,
Nor is the celebration of white supremacy unheard of in America. The last Member of Congress who had been a member of the KKK (Senator Byrd) died only a few years ago. He was a Democrat who Hilary Clinton lauded as one of her mentors. I suspect that during his time as a member in good standing with the KKK there were times when their views were celebrated. I certainly would not bake a cake for any such group, nor would I expect any African American to have to do so either. Would you?
And yes, I do have “gay” friends. One of the reasons I have been persevering on this blog is due to a request from one of them who seriously regrets following the pathway of his peers. He has told me that he has wished that someone would have warned him of the dangers years ago, and not encouraged him to go the direction that he was being told to go.
I also have “ex-gay” friends. And they tell me the same thing. Do you have any ex-gay friends?
I have other gay friends who I support, financially, in other countries. I don’t hate anyone. My hope is that everyone can come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, and experience His love, and forgiveness. All of us are sinners. If we loved only people who never sin, we would never love anyone, cause “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”.
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You’re too much, Mel. The couple in CO were a set-up? Makes me smile just to imagine it. I find most people are pretty much what they appear to be.
And they were not trying to force their views on anyone – they didn’t invite the bakers to the wedding. They just wanted a cake, like everyone else.
And yes, if I were in business to bake cakes, I’d bake the darn cake. We do our jobs, those of us who follow the law. If I didn’t want to follow the law, I’d go do something else. And if I considered principled resistance and it went to court and I lost, I would recognize that the law is the law, and I would hope everyone else would too. Otherwise, what is the point of laws and courts?
As for your gay (why is that in quotes? Are you trying to denigrate them or their gayness?) friends, no one really knows what is in the heart of another. I would consider it a real possibility that your friends might respond otherwise in a more supportive environment, but in any case, I am glad to know you are willing to be friends with gay people, with or without the quotes. Go you.
As far as I know, I do not have any ex-gay friends, but then i am not in the habit of inquiring as to my friends’ sexual interests, so maybe I do – who knows?
I think I’m done here, Mel. You won’t change my mind, and I am certain I won’t change yours. Stay well and wear a mask. Protect yourself and those around you. Cheers!
>
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Thanks for replying Judy. It is always good to hear from you.
Its interesting to hear you say “I find most people are pretty much what they appear to be.” I think pretty much the opposite….that there is usually far more to people than what appears on the outside. The adage “you can’t judge a book by its colour” is true wisdom. And the fact that this “couple” filed a lawsuit, with all their ducks in order and already lined up, suggests quite strongly that it was a set up.
And the baker was following the law as he understood it. He believed he was living in the “land of the free”, where religious freedom is guaranteed; that he would not be required to bake a cake specifically for an event which he believed would violate the sanctity of marriage.
It would be one thing if it were Walmart, where there are cakes already made for any purpose and the couple went to buy one already in stock. But in this case he was being asked to produce a cake for a particular purpose. He was being asked to use his artistic skills to celebrate and create a message for something specific with which he could not agree.
For example, lets assume that there comes a day when polygamy is openly legal across the USA, and the age of legal marriage is lowered to 12. Suppose some man with 3 wives,already who is about to marry a 4th wife, (who is 12 years of age) asks you, the baker (in business to make cakes) to decorate a cake with the words “welcome my dearest and most beautiful wife number 4 to my family”. Would you “just bake (and decorate) the damned cake”?
Nor was the baker who was sued “not following the law”. The fact that the Supreme Court over turned the original court’s decision shows clearly that the law is, at best, confusing. And if the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Baker, it is difficult to argue that he was breaking any law.
I use the quotation marks for the word “gay” because it is a usurped meaning of the word. 50 years ago if I said I felt gay, it would have meant I felt happy, joyful, content, or in a good mood. Yes, perhaps it is being pedantic. But words and the meaning of words is important. I also use those quotations when the word “progressive” is used to describe the latest (often inane) idea to come from the fringe elements of the extreme Left. Any time a word is used when it is meant to mean something different from its original meaning, I think it is appropriate to use those quotation marks. Confucius was once asked what it would take to achieve world peace. His reply: “insist on the exact definition of words”. That sounds like wisdom to me.
Thanks for the discussion. It is always good to discuss important issues in an atmosphere of respect and civility. That is something which is becoming a very rare occurence these days. All the best and if I don’t hear from you for awhile, Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas!
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Mel:
I can’t have an intelligent argument with someone who denies science and concocts crack pot conspiracy theories in its place. If you really think that our medical professional organizations puppets of some liberal political scheme to undermine your faith, I can’t help you. The fact is, two of the largest “reparative therapy” oranizations, one of them being “Exodus” out in California, have colapsed with their physicians admitting that their theories and methods are invalid. So much for your highly qualified dissenters. Moreover, the science coming out of Covid-19 research has been pretty good. Even God’s “champion for Christianity” admits that, though he doesn’t have a clue how any of it works. And as for what the church has taught for centuries, the church insisted long after the death of Gallileo that the sun rotated around the earth. Bad science doesn’t become good science just because it has been believed for a long time by a lot of smart people. I also maintain, as does the scientific community that same sex attraction is not a disorder and you have yet to point me to any scripture stating that the love of a same sex family is not as blessed as that of a heterosexual couple. And you won’t, because there are none.
Churches and religious organizations are treated differently under the First Amendment than businesses. That may not comport with your opinion about what the law should be, but that’s how it is. Furthermore, that’s how it has to be. Imagine trying to go through the check out at Walmart and having the clerk tell you, “Sorry, can’t ring up your ham because I’m a Muslim and facilitaiting your consumption of ham is against the tenants of my faith. You will have to go to the next line, but you can’t get your christmas cards rung up because the clerk there is a Jehovah’s Witness and she doesn’t believe in celebrating holidays. So perhaps you sould go to line 7. But wait, he’s an atheist who believes propagating religion is dangerous. He won’t ring up that religious magazine or yours. And on it goes. If you want to live in a world where you never have to deal with people whose acts, opinions or faith you don’t agree with, I guess you can get together a group of like minded people and start your own community-sort of like the Amish. Otherwise, you have to figure out how your are going to live with the rest of us. Fact is, the United States is not a Christian country. Never has been. But it is becoming ever more diverse and all you white, straight Christian guys are going to have to get used to it. The play room is not yours alone. You have to share the toys. Deal with it.
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I do not deny science. I love science and believe firmly in the scientific method.
Science is a way in which we investigate and discover the wonders of God’s creation. What I do deny is the infallibility of so-called “scientific institutions”, which are man made and which can (and certainly have been) corrupted. That is FACT, Not a “crack pot” conspiracy theory. Science is seldom a settled matter on anything. Try discussing nutrition and alternative healing techniques with any two medical doctors and you are likely to find little agreement. As with institutions — especially those which rely on government grants for their survival, it is not outside the bounds of reason to assume that at times they will do what they are required to do in order to get the government grant.
The Catholic church in Galileo’s day may have been wrong about the sun, but the Bible has not been. Perhaps a Catholic can explain the teachings of that institution. My spiritual ancestors were highly persecuted by them when they attempted to reform that institution.
For sure scientists have learned a lot about Covid 19, but they have made very differing and conflicting pronouncements in the process. In the early stages of the pandemic, some of these scientific “experts” were basing their projections on very flawed computer models. The CDC, NIH, WHO, and other medical bodies have altered their recommendations on wearing masks, lock-downs, travel, social distancing, and other aspects several times And the Democrat Governors of several states actually, (apparently on the advice of their medical experts) placed COVID infected patients in nursing homes, forcing these institutions, full of the most vulnerable people — who are highly susceptible to die the most from this virus — to accept them.
Furthermore, at least one of these governors let a hospital ship with the capacity to hold hundreds of patients sit idly at sea, unused. He also turned away a complete and functioning mobile hospital set up by a competent humanitarian organization which had vast experience in dealing successfully with pandemics (including Ebola) which, after it had been set up, were forced to take it all down and were sent packing. These actions are the antithesis of science and logic itself. They no doubt contributed to many preventable deaths. And this supposedly on the advice of “medical experts”?
I agree that Trump has made mistakes with Covid. He relied far too heavily on one adviser (a huge mistake) who persuaded him to do inadvisable things. (Although he has never made such a huge error as these Democrat Governors made,) Was a lock-down necessary? According to these scientific institutions, and according to Trump’s special adviser — YES. Yet now the WHO is saying that lock-downs were not necessary. I suspect that the day will come when the truth is revealed. And at that point, I strongly suspect that politics and greed will be seen to have played a prominent role. Would you disagree? My point is that human institutions are fallible. They have made mistakes, and will continue to do so. Medical and scientific opinion does change. And it can, at times, be in grave error.
How many genders are there now? I must have missed your answer on that. 🙂
You say: “Churches and religious organizations are treated differently under the First Amendment than businesses”. So what you are saying is that you as a pastor, could refuse to have a cake baked for a celebration of Ashley Madison’s successes, but I, as a common layman and businessman, could not? That is what you are implying. Or that a first nations pastor, would not be required to bake a cake for an oil company celebrating the digging of oil on his ancestral burial grounds, but a lay engineer who also baked cakes for a living would have to? I don’t know if that is true or not, but if it is, then, to quote Shakespeare, the “law is an ass”. Where is the “equality”?
I suspect that you are wrong on that point. It is not only ministers or officials of the clergy who have the right to freedom of religion.As I said earlier, the Supreme Court over-ruled the lower court decision and ruled in favor of the Baker who was faced with these massive (and unjust) legal penalties. But if you are correct, then you should be advocating for change, rather than accept your elevated position of clergy privilege.
As for your resort to racism (“all you white straight Christians”!)… you fail to realize that what you are saying would force an African American, whose ancestors were abused and dehumanized by slavery, the KKK, Jim Crow, segregation, mass incarceration, etc, to bake a cake to celebrate the successes of white supremacy? Is that what you are advocating? Does that sound like justice to you? Is that the kind of “inclusive” America you want? Because that is what is coming across.
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For someone who claims to love science, you seem to have a pretty low opinion of scientists and their institutions. Scientists do not claim to be infalible. It is arrogant religious types who insist on an infalible Bible (which ususally means their own narrow interpretation of it) that cannot be contested no matter what the evidence to the contrary says. Science is based on the assumption that a lot of mistakes are going to be made on the way to discovering the truth. So when you point to the erros made along the way by the CDC, the WHO and other research institutes in trying to get a handle on Covid 19 and crow as though you had just discredited them, you only display your lack of understanding about the way science works. As I said, science makes a lot of mistakes along the way. A lot of theories turn out not to be accurate or complete. That’s how the empirical method works. But that is not to say that science is so all over the place that you can’t trust anything sciene has established. Over time, science has established some pretty reliable conclusions that have only been strenghthend with time. Of course, even these are not “infalible” and you won’t find any true scientists to say the are. But they are sufficiently proven for us to accept them as true-unless and until overwhelming evidence suggests the contrary.
Like it or not, your suggestion that our medical professionals and their institutions are politically corrupt and their guidance unreliable is not only a crack pot conspiracy meme, it is also dangeorus. I wish I could tell you about all of the children, teenagers and families I’ve met who have been deeply wounded by “repairative thereapy” designed to “cure” their sexual orientations. I can’t do that though, because to do so would violate pastoral confidences. I believe those stories would break your heart. In most cases, they were referred for treatment to these snake oil peddling quacks by their pastor or other religious leader to “save” them from the wiles of goddless science. I don’t believe God gave us brains for nothing. So if the best brains are telling me that same sex relationships are within the range of normal human behavior and that same sex couples can lead the same happy, productive and fulfilling lives as the rest of us-provided we treat them with dignity and respect-and the Bible seems to say the contrary, well maybe it’s time to take a second look at the Bible. It’s one thing to say that the Bible is true and reliable. It is quite another to say the same about everyone who thinks s/he knows what it means. If more of us religious folks practiced the humility of scientists when we read the Bible, we might have avoided the lunacy of the Scopes Monkey trial and that giant monument to stupidity in Kentucky known as the Creation Museum.
Despite what you suspect, religious institutions are treated differently under the First Amendment in some respects. That is why evangelical colleges are permitted to discriminate on the basis of race, sex and just about everyting else. Of course, if these private establishments start taking federal money or benefits, then of course they need to follow the rules of equality like everyone else. No, pastors are not the only ones who have freedom of religion. It belongs to all Americans. But no freedom granted under the constitution is absolute and unlimited. You can believe in and worship the sun god if you want to. But you can’t offer up your first born as a burnt sacrifice to the sun god no matter how sincerely you may believe it is your divine obligation. So to you are free to believe that same sex unions are sinful and to express that view. But you don’t get to discriminate on that account in the public market place. BTW, I refuse to engage your silly hypotheticals. If you really think that two people desiring to solomnize their love for one another is the moral equivalent to lynching, then your moral compass is clearly orientated to the north pole of a different planet.
Finally, I am not an expert on gender studies. What do know is that gender, from both a cultural and biological standpoint, turns out to be a lot more fluid than our binary thinking allows. I could point you to some literature on the subject if you are truly interested. But I suspect that your objective in asking has more to do with jeering at science and scientists than actually learning a thing or two.
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You stated: “Scientists do not claim to be infalible. It is arrogant religious types who insist on an infalible Bible (which usually means their own narrow interpretation of it) that cannot be contested no matter what the evidence to the contrary says”.
Well you just proved my point! True scientists understand what a theory is. Scientific institutions funded by governments, often do not. They are quite capable of issuing proclamations which are seen as “scientific truth” which may or may not be accurate, based on who is funding them and what they need to get their next grant. Remember how many “scientific studies” were produced to prove that tobacco was actually good for people’s health? Very convincing and great for the tobacco industry, until….of course…it was discovered that tobacco actually could be very damaging to one’s health and that the research which “proved” otherwise was paid for by the tobacco industry. There are numerous other examples. And the recent behavior of these institutions during the Covid “pandemic” shows that little has changed since those days. This does not mean that there are not brilliant scientists and medical researchers doing wonderful jobs. But in the last few months we have witnessed an uncanny resurgence of censorship and suppression of any scientific or medical opinions which do not follow the “official truth”! I’ve had more than one post on social media censored by the social media giants. This, despite the accurate empirical scientific evidence which was being presented in the post. It was censored, not refuted! This is the way medical institutions (accompanied by the media and Big Tech) seem to be going. Dangerous. So no, while I’m a big fan of science, I am not a fan of so-called “scientific institutions” which feed from the trough of any vested interest. Nor is it me who is trying to discredit them. It is they who are discrediting themselves by basing their conclusions on politics and those with an agenda, rather than on empirical scientific evidence.
I do agree with you when you state: “science makes a lot of mistakes along the way. A lot of theories turn out not to be accurate or complete. That’s how the empirical method works”. That’s exactly my point. What is “scientific truth” today, is just as likely to be replaced by the “scientific truth” of tomorrow, especially when it comes to things promoted by those with a fiscal or political agenda. But when you say “your suggestion that our medical professionals and their institutions are politically corrupt and their guidance unreliable is not only a crack pot conspiracy meme, it is also dangeorus”, you seem to be ignoring history itself. I’ve already mentioned the tobacco industry. Need we go back in time to read the “scientific” studies which talked about the inferiority of races? Hitler certainly had many top notch, brilliant scientific minds at his disposal (some of whom found work in the US governement following the WW2). These were men and women who were convinced that the “scientific evidence showed that the Aryan race was the superior race. Similarly there were supposedly “brilliant minds” in America which argued that black Africans were not “fully human”. The “evidence” that these “experts” produced influenced the Dred Scott supreme court decision, and was used to justify slavery. Today there is no shortage of “medical experts” who are quite willing to justify the killing of innocent unborn children in the womb, or now even those requesting euthanasia. The Hypocrattic oath states clearly: “I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.” When the medical establishment of today violates its own oaths like this so readily, it leaves little faith in its collective fundamental integrity.
Again, this is not to demean the many wonderful medical and scientific minds of great people in this field of service. Many have made great strides in progress for humanity. But hypocrisy, corruption and lack of integrity infest the medical and scientific institutions to the point where pronouncements made by them must logically be taken with the proverbial grain of sand.
You mention the damage done by some so-called “reparative therapy” techniques. I fully agree that there were “reparative therapy” techniques (which, at the time were lauded by some of the medical and scientific institutions which you appear to want us to accept unquestioningly today) which have caused much damage. Similar draconian measures were used to “treat” first nations children who were being forced to accept “western civilized’ values. In Canada, the mainline (supposedly progressive) churches backed the infamous residential schools system which became a nightmare of physical and sexual abuse for native Canadian children. But those who questioned the government’s (and churches’) approach at that time were similarly dissed for being “anti-science”. Science, like any discipline, can be abused or misused or misrepresented to create any “conclusion” however false, one wants. As long as there is hypocrisy and corruption, then its going to continue to happen.
You say: ” If you really think that two people desiring to solomnize their love for one another is the moral equivalent to lynching, then your moral compass is clearly orientated to the north pole of a different planet”. The point, however which I was making is that you, with your understanding of the law, are compelled to accept that an African American, whose ancestors were forced to undergo slavery, with all its lynching, segregation, Jim Crow, mass incarceration, etc, should be compelled to bake a cake for an event celebrating white supremacy. If “business is business” and there is no moral reflection allowed in choosing what one can promote or refuse in a business decision, then that is the logical result. It is therefore you, not me, who is putting the two issues in the same category. I’m merely pointing out the logical conclusion which your view of US law entails. And if you are correct, then YOU should start working towards doing something to change that.
Now, regarding gender, I have read many things about the new gender theory. That’s why I’m so confused as to how many genders we are now required to believe that there are. The great “wisdom” of America’s scientific and medical establishment can not seem to come up with a number which is agreed upon. Maybe they will. But let me ask you: “In Genesis 1:27 it is written: “”So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” Similarly, in Matthew 19:4, Jesus also said: “Haven’t you read… that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female” As a minister of the church, do you believe these verses? Or were Moses and Jesus both wrong?
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“But hypocrisy, corruption and lack of integrity infest the medical and scientific institutions to the point where pronouncements made by them must logically be taken with the proverbial grain of sand.” And that is why millions of people are listening to quacks telling them that masks and social distancing don’t matter; that children don’t contract or die from Covid-19; that “herd immunity” will fix everything. People at high risk (including, by the way, expectant women) are being endangered by this dangerous misdirection given by folks urging them not to trust science or scientists, to open their bars, restaurants and gyms throwing caution to the wind. Let’s get something straight. Scientific consensus is built around peer reviewed research subject to intense criticism and evaluation. The government does not control any of that (though God’s “champion” for Christianity has certaintly tried). Just becausse you can turn over enough rocks to find some quack with a degree who will say something to the contrary, that doesn’t prove that scientific consensus is unreliable and must be taken with a grain of sand. If you have been peddling crap like this online, you were rightfully blocked. Freedom of speech does not give one the right to scream fire in a crowded theator when there is no fire. If you are undermining confidence in science and medicine during a pandemic, you are doing just that. So for God’s sake Mel, cut it out!
Once again, I refuse to follow you down the rabbit hole of conspiracy clat trap about liberals, the deep state and Democrats conspiring to persecute all you poor little white evangelicals. But on the matter of gender, you are right. The Lord God created them male and female. God also separated light from darkness in day and night. Yet the night is let with the moon and the stars and there are deep places in earth and sea that never see the light of day. Furthmore, God spearated the land from the sea. But there remain, swamps, bogs, intertidal zones, marsh lands and seasonal lakes and streams that are neither entirely water nor land. God created and loves not just the ends of the spectrum and everything in between. Once you lose your limited binary way of thinking, you start to see the true complexity of things. So, once agian, it isn’t the Bible that has the problem, it is its interpreters.
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I agree that scientific consensus is built around “peer reviewed research subject to intense criticism and evaluation”. But that is not what is happening these days. Policies related to response to COVID were based on obviously faulty computer models. There was very little opportunity for any criticism or evaluation from those with alternate theories or solid scientific and medical evidence. Many of those who did speak out were simply censored, with some receiving punitive treatment, including malicious attacks on their reputations and loss of employment!
The lives of people at “high risk”, especially elderly, and those in nursing homes, were placed at seriously high risk (with significantly increased mortality rates) by Democrat governors who forced nursing homes to accept these patients who were afflicted with COVID! And this on the medical advice of the ‘experts’ who you want us to listen to. There was no effort to allow “intense criticism or evaluation”.
I am not telling anyone not to wear a mask, or not to social distance. The scientific institutions which you laud, are the ones which have gone back and forth on these numerous times. What I was referring to in the posts which I put out (which were censored) were testimonies from qualified and licensed medical practitioners — doctors, epidemiologists, biologists and experts in viral diseases — who were speaking from first hand experience! They had successfully treated COVID patients using cost effect and readily available medications which had already been approved by the FDA. These were true “experts”; definitely NOT quacks! But information on these safe, and cost effective medications was censored by the media and social media, at the behest of the medical institutions you admire, (even though they are being used safely and effectively in other countries). Several supposedly “respected” research groups put out false data about these treatments which was not accurate! One intentionally used extremely high dosages (way above manufacturers recommended amounts), to prove that these treatments were dangerous. Another study, had to be withdrawn from the Lancet when it was discovered that the data had been falisfied. Why such underhanded efforts to discredit treatment protocols which are reportedly so effective at saving lives?
Nor are vaccines subject to any rigorous criticism or evaluation, even on their safety. Which vaccine since 1986 has undergone “peer reviewed research subject to intense criticism and evaluation”? Can you name any? In fact since that year vaccine makers can not be sued for any damages received by patients who took them, regardless of any clear linkage between the vaccine and the patient’s injuries. Why, under such draconian law, would anyone NOT be highly skeptical of anything coming out of today’s “medical and scientific community”? Why would any manufacturer go through the painstaking and costly efforts to ensure that safety standards are met when there can be no legal repurcussions if they mess up? This attack on patient rights as well as the suppression and censorship of therapies which are reported to be efficacious in treating COVID have resulted in serious morbidity and mortality which could have been prevented. America’s medical community needs to come clean on this! But they are not doing so.
What I am saying is no “rabbit hole”. It is what is actually happening. And if qualified people with medical and scientific opinions based on objective experience are not allowed to express dissent (which is what is happening), then it is no “conspiracy theory”, it is a violation of the freedom of speech, and freedom of research which theoretically all Americans are entitled to.
So, along with the abandonment of the sanctity of human life, the trampling of religious (and now scientific) freedom, America, the “land of the free”, is in grave peril! That you can not see this is sad. But as one pundit recently put it:
“I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you”. 🙂
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Well, turns out God’s “champion for Christianity” agrees with you. He just said Dr. Fauci and all of our country’s epidemiology expers are corrupt “idiots” and don’t listen to the scientists. Good advice. They are just a bunch of God denying, America hating East coast intellectuals what thinks their book learnen puts them above us honest, blood washed, born again Christians. And now you are an anti-vaxer too? Well Mel, it’s been great chatting with you and I thank you for your hospitality. But I am going to excuse myself now as I have urgent business to attend to back on planet earth. Peace and be well.
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:-)))
Rev Olsen, you rock!
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I see that you are still throwing up your straw men. I’m not anti-vax. I recognize the good which proper vaccines have done in the world, saving many lives. What I am against is the current paradigm where the law no longer protects innocent lives from miscreant pharmaceutical corporate greed when vaccines are made.
Oh, and by the way, it was this same Dr. Fauci who told us at one time that masks were not necessary (which is something you objected to when you inferred that I was saying that). And it is Dr. Fauci who advised Trump to go into major lock-down….something which now the W.H.O. says is not necessary.
I don’t agree with the way Trump went after Fauci, but it is good to see that Trump has finally figured out what this advisor has been up to. And he is correct that so many Americans are tired of the way this “pandemic” is being used for political gain, ruining people’s lives and livelihoods in the process.
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God bless you!
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Jesus called them, Vipers, Snakes…that’s why it’s good to know the Word for yourself. ..
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Jesus did not call Franklin Graham, or others like him a “brood of vipers”. He called the Pharisees that. He did this because the Pharisees (not Franklin Graham) were neglecting justice, mercy and faithfulness yet trying, at the same time, to appear to be “holier than thou” !. They were straining at gnats while swallowing camels.
Franklin Graham is not neglecting justice. He is speaking out for the poor, sick and the persecuted. He is defending the right to life of those who are destined for slaughter (the unborn children in our own societies as well as victims of war and persecution and terror. Franklin is NOT neglecting “mercy”. He, through his organization, Samaritan’s Purse, has helped millions of people around the world who are starving, displaced, sick and in terrible condition. He has not neglected faithfulness either, since he has been proclaiming faithfully the Word of God and speaking the truth, even when it is not popular to do so, (as this article and the blog comments clearly demonstrate).
No, Franklin Graham is not the one here who Jesus would be call ing a “brood of vipers”. But I can think of someone else who might qualify!
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SO RIGHT
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#10 Modern Judaism stems from the Pharisees. I think you are missing something about Jesus being a Jew as well as about anti-Semitism in the N.T.
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Brilliant,…
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Once he was ask if Obama was a christian he said no I don’t think so I thought that was a little string was he judging how did he know .
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You’d have to ask him. But one way he might have known is that when Obama gave his speech in Cairo, he let the cat out of the bag. He said something to the effect that he had experienced Islam in many different places before (and I quote) “coming to the place where it was revealed”. If Islam is a “revealed” religion, then who revealed it? If you believe that it was the Creator God who “revealed” Islam, then by definition, that would make you a Muslim. Islam and Christianity are incompatible in their respective theologies. The central message of Christianity is that Jesus died, and rose again from the dead to provide salvation to the world from sin. In Islam, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is strenuously denied, and Muhammad, not Jesus, is the final and most important prophet. You can’t have it both ways. This is not to judge anyone by their character. Obama seems to have made it quite clear by the words he chose to use in his speech.
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Pastor, why such a snarky and condescending letter? I think you lose credibility when you write like this. Although much of what you say I agree with, you should consider Ephesians 4:29 when you speak/write.
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His piece is brilliant and well said. Graham, I’m afraid, backs the Southern Strategy of States’ Rights … check out: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EH1EL7A/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
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Amen
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Condescending is exactly right. This is not actually a pastor who wrote this. He or she never identifies himself/herself. Therefore, it’s a phony letter.
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For me, and for many others, thus letter speaks truth. Don’t like it? That’s fine. But don’t call it fake; it’s anything but.
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Peter? His mom didn’t know how to spell Dick? Seriously? That was how she made a living, SERIOUSLY!
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Yet another example or how Rev. Graham disciples are so full of the Spirit of Jesus. Thanks so much for proving my point!
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Revolsen….do you know Neil n Bob personally? If not, then the only thing that has been proven here is your propensity to jump to conclusions. And in this case,again, it is a conclusion which is most likely false. Neil n Bob could just as easily be someone who agrees with you and is simply trying to make those who oppose what you have written look uncouth. I encounter such trolls all the time when discusing issues online where orthodox Christian values (and those who support them) are being attacked. I can assure you, however, (since I do know Rev Graham personally), is that he himself would never use that kind of language in describing those who oppose his teachings. Nor would he endorse anyone else who does.
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Unfortunately in some Bibles this text is omitted. This is very sad!
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Jesus was not concerned about the way people treat each other on the cross (and yes He did care about these things) He cared about the eternal salvation which is based on believing in Him! We are to do all the things that was said about taking care of people, but not once did you say the main purpose in life and that is to believe in the Son of God! Franklin does do all the things you said was the main thing (have you ever heard of Samaritans purse, including taking care of refugees) but he is rightfully concerned with the blasting of Christianity from EVERYWHERE in this world, including the church! You say you preach love to one another, but why don’t you mention the most IMPORTANT part! Persecution as defined by Webster’s dictionary says that persecution is in major part for religious purposes and says it’s for harrassment or annoyed! That qualifies!
Edit
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He is not his father’s son. Billy is the one who went to the hell holes, always preached God’s love and forgiveness, never anger. He never lived in a big, ostentatious house or even had his “own” church. His church was wherever he could gather people “in His name”.
He says he regrets getting involved in politics in his life, but I’d like to think that maybe he was a positive counsel and influence to the presidents whose company he kept.
Yes, Franklin Graham is a disappointment and he may get a surprise when HE reaches those “Pearly Gates”.
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Emily. Do you really know what kind of house Franklin Graham lives in? What is the name of the church of which Franklin is pastor?
It may interest you to know that Franklin’s father, Billy Graham supports what Franklin is doing 100%. And while Rev. Billy went around the world preaching the Gospel, Rev Franklin is also doing the same thing. And along with that, he has been going to places like Southern Sudan, Iraq, Syria, Philippines, Indonesia, and countless other nations where disaster or civil conflict has torn society apart. Rev Franklin is putting his money and his feet where his mouth is, and he is showing in word and deed what it means to demonstrate the love of Jesus Christ to “the least of these”! .
During most of father Billy’s days as an evangelist the need to speak out on serious issues such as the desecration of the sanctity of human life and the sanctity of marriage were not cultural issues which needed to be addressed. There was far more of a Christian consensus underlying American culture, though certainly it was not perfect. But it is far different today. America stands at the brink of spiritual and social collapse. I praise God that there are a few brave men and women like Rev, Franklin who are willing to cry out with a prophetic voice to this nation, with the hope that America, like Nineveh of old, will repent before it is too late.
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Emily. You might also be interested to hear what the Rev Billy (not Franklin) had to say in a very recent (2015) address to America in response to the recent Supreme Court Ruling on so-called “homosexual marriage”:
The Rev Billy Graham (who you admire) said the following:
“The fourth great crisis in American history is the crisis of the present moment. Our nation at this moment is being threatened as it has not been threatened since the Civil War. We are being threatened by moral deterioration.
We have seen this country plunging deeper and deeper, at a rapidly gaining momentum, into moral deterioration. Honesty and truthfulness have been thrown out the window. The nation is on a mad pursuit of amusements, pleasure and immorality.
The same symptoms that were in Rome during its last days are now seen and felt in America. Walk down the streets of our cities and see the current names of today’s films. Many are either psychopathic or centered on sex.
What is this country coming to?
We need a moral revival. We need a spiritual revival that will put a new moral fiber into our society, or we will have collapsed internally before any enemies even get here. We are being softened up right now by the devil for the kill.”
Billy Graham and his son Franklin, as always, have pointed to the solution being a return to the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. America needs to return to its spiritual roots. You can read Rev Billy Graham’s message here:
https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/june-2015/billy-graham-on-the-crisis-of-moral-deterioration/
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Emily, I am afraid that you are greatly mistaken, Franklin Graham’s place in heaven is already secured through the shed blood of Christ and by accepting Christ as his personal Lord and Savior. God has not called Franklin to be like his father as an itinerant evangelist. By the way, who are you to judge his salvation, that is between him and Christ. He has stood up for the homeless, provided supplies through Samaritans Purse during disasters, provided Christmas “shoeboxes” for Third World children with a gospel message in each one. So, what have you done for Christ lately?
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Amen! Well put!
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Thanks Connie
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Amen
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The Reverend Billy Graham fully supported the work and message of his son, Franklin Graham. Furthermore, Rev Billy Graham supported, prayed for, and voted for Donald Trump.
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You have said this before. I wonder how you can be so sure of Billy’s vote.
As for his support of Franklin, maybe. Maybe not. You can’t get in his head. I have to look at Franklin’s behavior and wonder. But then I see 45 differently than you and Franklin do.
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I posted a quote from Rev Billy Graham on this blog which he wrote, showing not only that he saw the moral decline in America as a major concern, and echoing the message that his son, Franklin was giving. Also, Franklin wrote an op ed recently in Christianity Today where he stated clearly his father’s views and who he voted for.
In short I got the information from the “horses” mouth.
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Franklin is nothing like his father. I grew up listening to Rev Billy Graham. He not only spoke the word of God..He lived a godly life..
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Franklin Graham is a Christian. This “Peter” character is not. Just “who” is this “Peter” and where is his “church”. I believe Peter is just another atheist pretending to be a Christian. I know the Grahams. What they say is Truth. Because they preach the Bible. Don’t believe them if you don’t want to. You don’t have to. God gave you the right to disbelieve His Word. And yes you will fool many….but not real Christians.
The Bible says, Romans 16:18 for such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites. They deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting with smooth talk and flattering words.
2. Hebrews 13:9 Stop being carried away by all kinds of unusual teachings, for it is good that the heart be strengthened by grace,
3. Ephesians 5:6 Don’t let anyone deceive you with meaningless words. It is because of sins like these that God’s anger comes to those who refuse to obey him.
If you don’t believe in the Bible or you “Twist” the Bible…like “Peter” did…you’re an atheist. Plain and simple
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Nope. Nope nope nope. Have you forgotten all the God-fearing and God-loving and God-worshipping people all over the world who are not Christians but who love and worship the same God we do?
There are many roads to Rome. There are many roads to our God. There are many ways to worship and love Him.
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And of course I just did to you what I most object to about your statement – dictating to you what you MUST believe in order to be a true child of the One True God. I apologize.
I should have said that I BELIEVE there are many paths to our God. I believe that God loves a random Buddhist or Jew or atheist every bit as much as He loves you. I believe that, in His love for all His children, He’s got paths to Him that you and I cannot imagine.
(Sorry – I would rather indicate God as genderless, but it was just too awkward.)
And I believe the worst thing we can do (OK, one of the worst) is to lay out one single answer and be so convinced that we have the one and only right answer that we start to try to dictate to the rest of the world what God thinks and is and does.
I believe that it is a pretty easy life to just decide you have the one and only answer. I believe it is healthier for you, for the people around you, and for the society in which you live, to have a little humility and a little thoughtfulness, and to recognize that you might not have all the answers. And I believe the best thing you can do (and the thing God wants most from you) is to just love your fellow sojourners.
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Judy. When you replied to Rand Saffell saying: “I believe it is healthier for you, for the people around you, and for the society in which you live, to have a little humility and a little thoughtfulness, and to recognize that you might not have all the answers”, are you not being considerably judgmental?
It is not about anyone thinking that they have all the answers. The question is do we believe what Jesus clearly said or not. Jesus said: “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”. No one comes to the Father but by Me.” (John 14:6)
The Bible also clearly states: “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12-14). These, and other verses like them. leave no room doubt. Either Jesus is correct, or He is not.
And if Jesus is correct, then all roads do not lead to “Rome” (ro use your words). Only one does. That may seem narrow minded to people today. But that is exactly what Jesus said it would be. “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.” (Matt 7:13-14)
And as the Proverb says: “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” (Prov 14:12)
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Here you go, Mel – this is a statement by John Shelby Spong, retired episcopal bishop; he says it better than I can:
(S) “God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindi or Buddhist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition. I walk through my tradition. But I don’t think my tradition defines God.”
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Judy. You are free to believe the heretic “Bishop” Spong if you want. I have read much of his teachings and find them unconvincing (to say the least) . But you should be aware that he blatantly contradicts what Christ and the Scriptures clearly teach regarding the central teachings of Christianity.
I put my faith in Jesus Christ and His word!
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Yep. No surprise.
I’ll stick with ‘God is neither Christian nor Jew nor . . . ‘
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Judy. I’m disappointed, though not surprised. Just don’t blame God if you never make it to Rome! He gave you the map, and the road is clearly marked.
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So it’s perfectly all right with you that we keep killing babies by the millions because it’s a legal law. That is not the way God looks at it. That is one of the major reasons Trump is in the White House. To eventually stop murdering God’s creation. Two of the other major reasons our jobs and safety. He is delivering.
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Thanks for your comments. Re-read my letter. You will see that I never said “killing babies by the millions” is “perfectly all right.” What I did say is that depriving babies (and adults too, for that matter) of live saving medical treatment is not OK. Groping women and girls is not OK. Racist rhetoric and discrimination is not OK. Chronic lying is not OK. And, I might add, setting up Kurdish people for ethnic cleansing is not OK. None of this becomes OK just because I believe a leader is delivering on the economy. Millions of Germans looked the other way when Jews started disappearing because, after all, look what the Nazis have done for the economy. If in spite of all this, you vote for Donald Trump, that’s your right. But calling him “God’s champion” as does Rev. Graham, that’s a bridge too far for this pastor. Call me old fashioned, but I still think lust, profanity, greed, selfishness, lies, betrayal and violence are sins.
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I can agree with you on some of these things. It is wrong to deprive babies of life saving medical treatment, to discriminate and engage in racist speech and action; to grope women, to lie, and setting up any group for ethnic cleansing. Of course you accuse Trump of doing these things, even though some of these can be credibly contested. Nevertheless, I’m glad you see these as wrong. My question, then,is wny do you only apply these to Donald Trump, and not those on the Left, who are as guilty or far more so than Trump.
Abortions deny all babies of life itself, and when babies who survive abortions are left to die (or strangled) on the clinic tables in America’s abortuaries, the crime is no longer abortion but infanticide. The Democrat party has consistently voted down legislation to provide special protection for these precious children who have committed no crime, and whose body parts are often sold by the abortion industry. Every Democrat candidate for the 2020 election supports the increase of the killing of unborn children. Some even want to expand it overseas, making it a primary means of population control. Is this wrong? If so, are you writing similar letters of criticism to those religious leaders who support these politicians and the killing which they support?
As for racism, are you upset that black babies are killed by abortionists at a rate 3 to 5 times higher than those of other races in America? If its wrong to make racist statements, how much more wrong can it be to support the killing of black children in this way. For sure, America’s abortion in dustry has done far more to oppress African Americans than the Ku Klux Klan could ever have dreamed of doing. Does that bother you?
As for groping women, do you not recall the cigar wielding President Bill Clinton and what he did with a young impressionable intern in the oval office, (not to mention other credible allegations of assault and rape by women such as Juanita Brodderick, Jennifer Flowers, Paula Jones and many others)? Or what Hillary Clinton is accused of doing to Cathy O’brien,(not to mention her insults to her African American chef who she called a *N*)?
As for “setting up any group for ethnic cleansing”, how can that charge be applied to Donald Trump for pulling out around 50 troops from Syria, followed up by a permanent cease-fire between Turkey and Syria, and the taking out of the top ISIS leader, Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. This ISIS leader who , despite the Washington Post’s absurd attempt to paint as simply an “austere religious scholar”, was one of the world’s most cruel and ruthless dicatators who beheaded little children, persohally raped women, (including American aid worker, Kayla Mueller) and tortured thousands in the most barbaric manner possible. While the jury is certainly out on that charge against Donald Trump it is not with respect to the Obama/Clinton administration arming and providing strategic resources to ISIS, and other radical Islamist groups bent on carrying out ethnic cleansing of our Christian brothers and sisters in Syria and Iraq, as well as Yazidis and other groups.
And no one holds a candle to what Bill Clinton did in personally when he ensured that the holocaust against the Rwandan Tutsi and moderate Hutus was allowed to proced! Even though so much of the massacres could have been prevented if Bill Clinton had not blocked the change in mandate of the well trained, well armed, UN peacekeeping troops already on the ground from a Chapter VI to a Chapter VII. These troops could have protected civilians. Instead, due to Bill Clinton’s intervention, they were withdrawn and the few who remained were not allowed to protect civilians, only report what they saw. This faciliated a true genocide of over 800,000 cvilians. Have you ever written to any clergy who supported these American leaders responsible for setting up such horrific suffering of ethnic cleansing and genoide? If so, I’m sure many of us would like to hear about that.
If not, then perhaps it would be good to take Christ’s words seriously when he advised us not to worry about “removing the speck in our brother’s eye, before we remove the log in our own.”
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Ah Mel – how you twist and exaggerate things. Amazing.
I’m not going to take it point by point, and I’m not going to try to explain your exaggerations to you; but I will say that justifying 45’s behavior by calling up other past and gone sinners is pretty silly. You have no way on earth to know whether any of the people reading your words approved of or protested Clinton or any other prior politician, so your comparison of them with 45 greatly lacks relevance.
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Hello Judy. Good to hear from you again. Its been awhile. I can see, though, that you are still tied to your old misconceptions. Sometimes it does take time to change. 🙂
I’m not surprised that you are not going to attempt to describe my so-called “exaggerations”. A good thing, cause I have not exaggerated at all. How can you exaggerate a negligent and racist mindset which facilitated the mostly preventable deaths of over 800,000 civilians?
BTW, with respect to Pastor Peter’s spurious charge of Trump setting up the way for ethnic cleansing in Syria by withdrawing US troops (all 50 or so of them) from one area of Syria, the Reverend Fanklin Graham, (who has been the subject of such unwarranted demonization and hatred on this site), did write a very strongly worded letter of exhoration to Donald Trump to urge him not to abandon the Christians, Yazidis and Kurdish people in the region and to do what he could to prevent such suffering and abuse. So he is not afraid to confront Donald Trump when there is the perception (whether accurate or not) that he might be doing something amiss. This shows that Graham is holding Trump accountable and does not have a double standard.
Nor am I justifying President Trump’s alleged faults (emphasis here on “alleged”) by referring to the sins of his predecessors. I readily acknowledge that Trump has led an immoral life in the past (when he was a card carrying Democrat and friend of Bill and Hillary Clinton and Democrats, Hollywood celebrities, and America’s elite circles loved him since he fit right in with the Left’s way of life!)! But it would certainly appear that Trump is changing his ways and is now looking in the right direction. The same can not be said of the Democrat Party which is obsessing with making the killing of unborn children more readily available and facilitating America’s moral free-fall at breakneck speed.
Nor is Trump someone who can ever be accused of having smooth or gracious oratory skills. The reason I point out the sins of his colleagues on the Left side of the aisle is not to exonerate number 45, but to point out the hypocrisy of those who hold a double standard to critically important issues. If someone applies different standards of justice and ethics to one person who they hate, and not to others who they like, then that is, by definition, discrimination and injustice.
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Ah Mel – you never change. Refreshing, in a way. Have a good weekend.
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Thanks Judy! Always a pleasure to talk to you. Have a wonderful Christmas Season. God bless.
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Well said Gloria. Good questions.
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This is great debate. It’s clear to read that people have passion behind their beliefs. I put a comment when this article was first published, I’ve gotten a lot of notices that new comments have been posted. Some of the responses to the article and other commenters can come across as intending to remind us all that we actually-are not as much a united nation as we would like to be.
Most importantly to me, I have to always remember that there are “bad actors” on every site we go to. Their profession is based on showing the world that America is not so united afterall. They make comments to keep us unsettled and angry. Most of all they spread lies and fear. We should make our points to one another as we defend our beliefs, but keep in mind the comments to your post or inflammatory language of any kind could be intentionally inflamitiry. The world is working to bring America down. Fake news,
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Well, my wife and I are at odds with a believer that thinks the ends justify the means. Franklin Graham has helped folks a lot. But, siding with the seemingly Devil incarnate to get a few more Christin rights passed is not ok. People what us as Christians, and siding with this terrible elected official is a slam on Jesus. I believe Billy Graham’s grand daughter best described Franklyn. He has done wonderful things to help people, but his association with the Administration is not the behavior of believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. And we are ALL capable of being tricked by Satan, so don’t throw rocks. Pray for the truth to abound, and let God do with these people, whatever HE deems appropriate. Let God be true, and every man a liar. Strive for the same mind as was in Christ. Even though it hurts at times.
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“I can’t say I have ever experienced anything in this country that could reasonably be called a restriction on my religious liberty, much less persecution.” – where do you live, sir? Have you access to television, radio, newspaper, internet? It looks like you don’t. Or maybe you don’t exercise your “religion freedom”. Or you just don’t care.
“A century old fixture” that “seats 30-40 on a good Sunday” … I call ‘disappointment’ when you are OK with that. “Fixture” is a good description for what you have.
Love one another “the best we can”, feed the hungry “that come to our doors”, “bury the dead” – this is NOT what the Bible teaches. If you are preaching this then you are misleading your church.
This dumb letter was surely written by a liberal, faking to be a christian. Smart was Rev. Franklin that didn’t even care about this “letter”.
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Thanks for your comments.
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Love one another, care for the poor, is not mandated of all Christians? What book are you reading, certainly not the Bible.
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Thank you Peter .. your letter expressing the same questions and thoughts I’ve wanted to ask the same to anyone who supports Trump .. it is so difficult for me to understand how anyone could challenge your vision and understanding of Christ. God Bless you Peter.. you’re letter has given me hope.
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Last info I saw was Rev Franklin Graham received $750,000. a year to run the Graham Ministry and another $750,000 a year to run the Red Shoe box Christmas charity. $1.5 million a year ,every year .
You decide if that’s not enough or to much.
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I’m not sure what the problem is here. That money goes to provide shoebox sized gifts to needy children all around the world to tell them that God loves them and we love them. Why would anyone have a problem with that? I wish it could a hundred times more than that.
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I think that $ 1,500,00.00 Is his salary !! If so it’s unconscionable.
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Thank you for the truth Peter!
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Thank you for writing this. You said it all. God bless you
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Thanks!
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AMEN! I have said this repeatedly about him—disturbing and disappointing. I wouldn’t take a million dollars to see or hear him speak.
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Thanks for your comments, Denise.
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Franklin is more than disappointing. He is a know nothing lacking a true moral compass. I’ll stand with Peter.
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Frank could learn something from Peter that I’m sure his dad tried to teach him.
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Thanks for your comments.
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The article was so true just wish everybody would read !!!
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Thanks, Dewyne, for your comments.
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Wow …got here accidentally and this a letter to Franklin Graham is spewed in hate
This person is so holier than thou……..disgusting ….you should be ashamed and talk to God. About this ……shades of jealousy…..
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Thanks for your comments, Patricia.
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Right on, Peter. I will be praying with you.
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FRANKLIN & HIS FATHER ARE THE MOST EMBARRASSING TO THE COUNTRY THEY ARE NO CHRISTIANS THEY ARE STEALERS TAKING THE MONEY OF POOR PEOPLE THEY BRAIN WASH IN BELIEVING IN THEM NOT IN GOD SO THEY CAN GET RICHER THIS SOB’S ARE BAD MEN INCLUDING JIM BAKER, JIMMY SWAGGERT, OLSTEEN, PATTERSON SHIT OF ALL HOW IN THE WORLD DO THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEM I RATHER LISTEN TO THIS PASTOR IN SMALL CHURCH I KNOW HE IS A GOOD CHRISTIAN SAYING THE WORD OF GOD WHY I THANK THIS PASTOR FOR SAYING WHAT HE FEELS AND SEES THE TRUTH ON THIS BASTARDS NO GOOD BUT DEVILS
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Your rather crass, demeaning, and obscene rhetoric betrays a deep seated hatred against Franklin Graham and those who support him. And here I thought Christians were supposed to love everyone….even their enemies and people they disagree with!
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Sad you judging Billy Graham and Franklin Graham…They are the only two recognized Prophets preaching out there. They do not have expensive cars, adorn with jewelry or lavish homes, but live humbly. All donations are not used for their own personal but for spreading the Gospel of Jesus! For those who believe in God an explanation is not necessary; for those who do not believe an explanation will not suffice…
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Thank you for your well written reply, Malia. You are correct. Rev Graham does not deserve the kind of false accusations he has been receiving on this site. God bless you.
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Wow, it must be hard for you to live in a world where you know EVERYTHING.
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Malia, you are mistaken. Franklin Graham took a salary of $882,833 out of the faithful’s contributions in 2015. See his IRS filing, https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.irs&ein=581437002
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The Graham’s are in the list of 10 richest pastors in USA, worth over $25 million……truth. Actual real truth is extremely important, assuming the best about people you like and the worst about people you are against is not a Christian action. Do some research, get the facts….allow facts to influence your thinking. Thank you Debbie for supporting truth.
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That’s what I thought!
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Debbie, the Graham family is among the richest in America. You can add to the $882,000 you know about by reading the stats on ALL the Graham “charities” and what they pay on Charity Navigator and elsewhere.
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So much for living a humbal life style!
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It’s Reverend Graham to you, Pete.
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It’s sir to you ton
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There is NOTHING Reverent about Mr. Graham.
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Well that was condescending and rude. Sorry, but you can’t accuse Franklin of all those things while doing it publicly (not Biblical) and being disrespectful.
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They are both reverends!
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Amen!
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A lonely voice in the wilderness. Thanks for trying.
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Pray for our leaders Peter .
Pray.
You should know this.
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He and they are not your ‘leaders’, He, et al, are takers for money. Ordinary greedy mammals, likely sociopathic a lot.
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Actually, they are not our leaders–they are our servants, as in “public servants.” If the space aliens come and say, “Take us to your leader,” point to yourself and the people around you. We are the leaders, not the politicians.
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Excellent reply! Thanks zapper45701!
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Hear here!! Frank Graham preaches a gospel I don’t recognize and worships a Christ if his (and his ilk’s) own making. He is no leader to me. And he isn’t worthy to tie his father’s sandals!!
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If by “father” you mean God, then yes you are correct. No one is “worthy, even John the Baptist”. But if you are referring to his earthly father “Billy”, it might interest you to know that Billy Graham supports completely what his son is doing. Franklin clearly has his father and mother’s blessing on his ministry. Is it because Franklin is taking the gospel to the poor and needy, or helping the hungry, the sick, the displaced, and persecuted all over the world that you don’t? Or is it because he stands up and speaks out for justice even when it is not popular to do so? Just curious!
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To paraphrase Tevye’s rabbi in Fiddler on the Roof:
“May the Lord bless and keep The Donald…
… far, far from the White House.”
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And how is it you know how his father feels?
There’s a very good chance he is standing behind Frankli as he always tried to speak The
Word, TOO.
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“I don’t recognize the Jesus I learned from my parents, my Sunday School teachers, my pastors or my years of study and reflection on the Bible in your angry, fearful rhetoric.”
Thank God we have your sanctimonious, self-righteous pontification to guide us.
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If you are referring to the letter above, I hear no anger or fear….certainly no rhetoric or sanctimony. I don’t believe for a second that you have ever studied the Bible.
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Sorry Barb, but if you actually READ what “pastor Pete” wrote (did you??) you’d see that he is the one accusing Franklin G.of being angry etc. Please try to think Ist, duh!
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Sorry Barb, but if you actually READ what “pastor Pete” wrote (did you??) you’d see that he is the one accusing Franklin G.of being angry etc. Please try to think Ist, duh!
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Peter, thank you! A brilliant letter. I feel this way and I’m always wondering who Franklin Graham is, because I don’t recognize him. His father would never have approved.
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Actually Debora, you’re right. Franklin is not Billy. His father, who will be 100 years old next year, was not a bigot and wouldn’t have approved of Franklin’s approach. He preached Jesus and not against an agenda like Franklin is spending most of his time doing. He is paid very well, in the $millions$ to head up both Samaritan’s Purse, which in fact does help in worldwide disasters, and the Billy Graham evangelistic association, now because his father can’t. I’m not sure where his heart truly is, since God only knows that, but Jesus would disagree with a lot of what he says.
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Thank you, Peter. I wish your church was near me. Sadly, Frank’s type of church are the only ones out here. This Republican Christianity is not even close to the teachings of Jesus in the Bible. Nice to know there are churches like yours.
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Amen
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All I can add is Amen. Thank you, Peter, for pointing out the puck-and-choose aspects of Frank’s and others’ reasoning. The sanctimonious aspect of the whole no cake for gays thing got to me, too. As well as the blatant disrespect for women and racially and socio-economic tinged “Christianity”. And the sexual not-so-innuendos that have been flying about genitals and looks.
So, in closing, you’ve nailed the issues with the current administration marching out and hiding behind a thin veil of being Christian. Hallelujah!
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AMEN !
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Yes. You are spot-on!
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“His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us. No, I didn’t get that from any private chat with God. We small church pastors have to rely on the Bible for our intel. I got this stuff from the Gospel of Matthew, 25th Chapter to be precise. As I said, that, too, is in the Bible.” Pastor Olsen, this is exactly what I was taught at my Southern Baptist church in my small Southern town when I was a child. Christ commanded me to love our Lord with all my heart, soul, and mind, and to love my neighbor as I loved myself. I learned to do good to those who hurt me and to be kind to everyone because God is love, and if God lived in my heart then I was His love too.
That Southern Baptist church has a new pastor and doesn’t have the same Jesus anymore. Needless to say, I don’t attend that church. I decided to keep my Jesus. Pope Francis seems to know the same Jesus, and now that I’ve read your letter to Mr. Graham I believe you know my Jesus too. If I lived in New Jersey, I would love to attend your services, but I still live in Louisiana. For now, I’ll just keep up with church on the internet.
Thank you for reassuring me that my faith is true. I have been told in recent months that I am wrong, not a Christian because of my disdain for and failure to support Donald Trump and other GOP candidates here in Louisiana. I found hatred and bias inconsistent with my Lord’s teachings. Honestly, I don’t believe that any candidate is ordained by God. I just prayed and voted my conscience. I know that our Lord is bigger and more powerful that our election, our nation, our political issues. He does want us to focus on His word and on demonstrating His love for others so that they may know Him through our actions and through our love. I do my best to live my life as a witness for Him by loving, helping, and giving to others.
Once again, thank you for writing and publishing this letter. It has provided me great comfort. May the Lord bless you.
Sincerely,
Kathie Boyett
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Kathie, I love your response. You may be in Louisiana as a champion for the Lord. Stand strong in your beliefs in this world where up is down and left is right. The Bible should be our guide, it will never fail us. God Bless and may he be with you all your days.
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Kathy, There are many prophets like you who have not bowed their knees to Baal.
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When Christ said “the least of these” there is no question that He was including the unborn! These precious children are a group of people who have no legal rights, can be killed in the most barbaric and cruel ways imaginable, have their body parts sold, and suffer excruciating agony simply because someone chooses to do so. It doesn’t get any more “least” than that. When liberal “pastors”, who cry foul because some bakers stand true to Christ’s teachings on the sanctity of marriage, show a fraction of that concern for the plight of these “least of these” children, perhaps they will begin to have some credibility. As for Franklin, he has demonstrated that he clearly has an active love for all of those groups mentioned in Matthew 25, including the unborn child. There aren’t many who have done more to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the prisoners, provide water to the thirsty and to stand for truth and justice than he has done. “Let those who have no sin cast the first stone”.
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Mel Middleton so that makes it ok to kill innocent adults and so on? taking insurance away from sick people is worse than abortion. you guys dont care about life after the baby pops out! what about the earth? god made this globe to give life to you, me and the other 7 billion people who spin with it. killing the planet is the worst way to say “thank you God”. so if life is sooooooooooooo precious while in the womb, why do you and yours want to restrict gay people from adopting the children nobody else gives a damn about? and “gay” isn’t contagious or a agenda to turn others “gay”. a six pack of beer has that aspect wrapped up. and “gay” isnt the cause of any pediphilia. look at the statistics of the correlation between sexual child predators and married hetero men. all my gay friends like pubic hair and muscles. and their own car. and a job and intelligence and their own bank account to pay for their own stuff while courting. children don’t have those qualities. and IT IS A CHOICE!! just like you making the same choice to be hetero. in order to be a choice, both selections have to be available ie. you chose hetero and not homo. so was it a choose for you or not? it cant be the other way around when it comes to a label of “choice” its like saying “im happy and you chose to be angry” you chose to be happy while i chose to be angry” another example. when you go to a fast food or any type of restaurant and order a soda. and all they have is 2 sizes “s and S”
its nonsense to say the “s” is a medium sized drink and the “S” is a large. because there has to be a small and a large to make the third size a medium. its that simple. cheers!
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Kathie, I think what you wrote is beautiful. I am Catholic and feel so blessed that Pope Francis is here to guide our church back to the most important principles of Christ: LOVE. I am currently reading a book about Mother Theresa that is part biography and part her letters. She was criticized heavily by Christians (seriously, how can you criticize this woman?) because while she was caring for the poor, sick, and dying in India she wasn’t trying to convert the Hindu’s to become Christians. Her response was (I paraphrase): “Jesus didn’t call me to convert, he called me to become poor so that I could love the poor. Just as God/Jesus became human to show his love for humans and human suffering. I show them, one person at a time, God by showing them Love”. I can only speak for Catholics, but this is the message that Pope Francis is using to guide Catholics away from judging and back to love. If you feel at a loss of finding a Christ-centered church, just maybe go to a Catholic Mass. I’m certainly not trying to convert you!!!! Just saying keep your options open. God Bless! P.S. A forewarning: we Catholics are sinners and sometime hypocritical too; just like all Christians…
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And Mother Teresa’s love was a strong testimony for God’s righteousness and love. Nor did she refrain from speaking out on behalf of human suffering and need. She was not afraid to speak out against the growing decadence and moral free fall occurring in Western nations like the United States. Like Rev Graham, she was a strong advocate for those who are suffering, especially the unborn.
“Abortion kills twice. It kills the body of the baby and it kills the conscience of the mother. Abortion is profoundly anti-women. Three quarters of its victims are women: Half the babies and all the mothers.”
~ Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta ~
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What a beautiful reply Kathie. I grew up with the same values you did. It’s nice to know there are others who have faith in love and the actual teachings of Jesus by his example.
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Kathie, I’d love to invite you to view my church’s services and you can even catch up with them on Youtube. Look for Grace Culture, and Jake Stringer. I can promise you that you’ll find a very loving church that feels the same way as you and many of us are rising up that feel the same….the true love of Christ and not the “law & legalism” of “religion.”
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Jesus said: “If you love me, keep my commandments”. True love is obedience to Christ, not following the way of the world.
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Kathie – you have put into words so much of what I feel. Bless you!❤️
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What is so ironic is that Rev Graham, the object of such judgmentalism and vitriol on this blog, has done more to carry out the injunctions of Christ given in Matthew 25 than any other Christian I know. Certainly far more than the people casting stones at him here in this discussion.
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Your letter is also quite wonderful. I am a non-believer, but fully support those who believe in charity, good will, and loving one’s neighbor. Thank you for being a decent human being.
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If you believe in charity, good will, and loving one’s neighbor, then you should support Rev Franklin Graham. That is exactly what he has committed his life to doing!
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Absolutely brilliant, but the fella ur writing to will not understand unfortunately. But hey, with God all things are possible.
I do hope he takes ur advice on the book you recommended for him to read, it’s his only prayer.
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GO, GO, GO…WHY DO WE FEAR THE TRUTH…i AM A RETIRED, 85 YEAR OLD CLERGYMAN – UNITED METHODIST – AND i DO NOT KNOW WHERE FRANKLIN GRAHAM GOT HIS NARROW -MINDED THEOLOGY…i DID NOT SEE NOR HEAR IT FROM HIS DAD…
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Maybe he got it from reading his Bible. 🙂 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)
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I agree pastor! Both of Mr. Graham’s children have gone political, and a little racist, in my opinion! This is something I did not detect in Mr, Graham himself!
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Perhaps you are not aware of it, but the Rev Billy Graham totally supports what his two children are doing and saying. In recent years he, as well, has spoken out strongly against the moral decline in America. He decried the recent Supreme Court decision regarding so-called “homosexual marriage”, as well as the persecution of Christians in the Middle East. In a recent (2015) message to America, he said the following:
“The fourth great crisis in American history is the crisis of the present moment. Our nation at this moment is being threatened as it has not been threatened since the Civil War. We are being threatened by moral deterioration.
We have seen this country plunging deeper and deeper, at a rapidly gaining momentum, into moral deterioration. Honesty and truthfulness have been thrown out the window. The nation is on a mad pursuit of amusements, pleasure and immorality.
The same symptoms that were in Rome during its last days are now seen and felt in America. Walk down the streets of our cities and see the current names of today’s films. Many are either psychopathic or centered on sex.
What is this country coming to?
We need a moral revival. We need a spiritual revival that will put a new moral fiber into our society, or we will have collapsed internally before any enemies even get here. We are being softened up right now by the devil for the kill.”
Billy Graham and his son Franklin, as always, have pointed to the solution being a return to the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. America needs to return to its spiritual roots. You can read Rev Billy Graham’s message here:
https://billygraham.org/decision-magazine/june-2015/billy-graham-on-the-crisis-of-moral-deterioration/
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I agree. When you have a Fake President lying to the American people on a daily basis who promotes grabbing women by their private parts and falsely claims to be a “Christian” and is under Criminal Investigation by Congress…our country has fallen into moral decline. And to have Graham promote those values to our children is inexcusable. Those who stand with Trump stand with Pure Evil and they don’t even realize it. Trump is The AntiChrist, The Great Deceiver that has been prophesized to usher in The End Of Days. That good and true Believers have fallen under his spell has been foretold as well. It is time to wake up before this Evil AntiChrist starts a Nuclear War and fulfills the prophesy.
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The Investigation on Russia’s interference in the US election has been ongoing for many months and not one shred of evidence has turned up implicating Donald Trump in anything illegal or even any impropriety. What it is turning up, however, is the extent to which the Obama administration spied on the American people, including Donald Trump. It makes what Nixon did look tame by comparison. It is also demonstrating the very real financial connections between the Clintons and various nefarious dictators around the world, including Russia, Saudi Arabia, and other unsavory governments. It may be, that in time, they will uncover something truly unpleasant about Trump, like the fact that in 1992 he went for more than 24 hours without flossing his teeth. But until they discover that, Trump is still very much the President. He won the elections fairly despite the mainstream media, and the rest of America’s elite opposing him. He is no fake President.
I’ve never heard Donald Trump promote grabbing women anywhere. When he bragged that women want him to grab them, it was in a private conversation with a “friend” who later betrayed him. And, Trump has apologized to his wife and the American people for these comments. He has acknowledged that they were wrong. How is that “promoting” anything?
As for Trump being the anti-Christ, i have to laugh. Your own comment proves that he can not be. The anti-Christ, as described by the prophet Daniel, will be someone who has no regard for the love of women. That obviously can NOT apply to Donald Trump. 🙂
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Mel Middleton. hey dumbdumb!! DJT AND DJT Jr. BOTH HAVE SAID THE OPPOSITE OF YOUR STATE. READ THE DAMN E-MAIL THAT DUMP JR EXPOSED HIMSELF.
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Your posts, with their use of insults, straw man arguments, ad hominem attacks, misrepresentation of facts, making huge mountains out of molehills (or as Christ put it, “straining gnats while swallowing camels”)and convoluted logic, are good examples of why Trump is now in the White House. A large segment of American society has had it to here with being the victims of such “jamming”. Every time someone dissents from the official politically correct narrative being dictated by our self appointed cultural and corporate elite they risk being targeted.
Trump has done what ‘representatives of the people” are supposed to do. He has listened to those who have been forgotten, marginalized, and demonized. And despite his obvious character flaws, have consequently voted him into office.
If Democrats really want to get the vote of this “basket of deplorables”, forget the jamming and listen to what they have to say. You might just learn something.
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Only one word, brilliant! This is true Christianity. Noone who backed Trump, or who holds Graham’s views has the right to call himself or herself Christian.
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What do you mean by “backing” Trump. Voting for him was to assure that the ultra left did not forevermore rule via the Supreme Court. Also to have voted for his opponent was to support already acknowledged high crimes of selling political favors. Voting for either candidate to provide strict purity of calling yourself Christian was frankly an impossible choice. So participating in our democratic republic by your definition means that a person cannot call them selves a Christian.
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High crimes? Yet who is under investigation for colluding with Russia is acceptable? It’s more like good Christians backed someone that does not live by the teachings of our Lord. It’s better to fight Congress than to add more corruption to the cesspool. We’ve had to fight against the extremes on both sides of the aisle and I will continue to do so no matter which party is in the majority. I will not knowingly help anyone that doesn’t care about our constitution or the Bible.
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How could any Christian vote for someone who supports unrestricted abortion. That is the killing of unborn children. It is the shedding of innocent blood. God hates the shedding of innocent blood. And Christ said that whoever harms children “it would be better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea. Hillary’s stance on killing the unborn (not to mention her (and her husband’s) negligence during the Rwanda holocaust, corruption and many other moral failings made it impossible for reasonable people to vote for her. Trump was by far the better choice, despite his many obvious failings. Beside Hillary, Trump is a paragon of virtue!
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Mr. Middleton:
Do you know the difference in percentage of Democrats who get abortions and Republicans who get abortions? None! Do you know that 18% of all abortions in this country are performed on those who self-identify as Evangelical? Do you know that more than 60% of the abortions in this country are performed on those who identify as Catholic and Protestant? Most Abortion is not a political problem but a spiritual problem! The church needs to police itself and stop playing politics!
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You replied to Wilson Ferris, but addressed your comments to me. I do not presume to speak for Mr Ferris, but I will reply to your post since my name is mentioned.
I do agree with you that abortion has affected all Americans. While I could dispute your facts and figures, that would be missing the main point which is that you are correct in that the church in North America has fallen into serious moral decline. We have politicians who call themselves committed Catholics who support abortion on demand. The Catholic church says virtually nothing to admonish them. In Canada there is a Prime Minister who claims to be Catholic yet will not even allow any of his Liberal Members of Parliament to be pro life. Similar situations exist within the Protestant Churches with some even taking a theological stance approving of the killing of these precious children. We should not be surprised when our young fall prey to the message of the world when such leadership within the church is so anemic, corrupt and cowardly.
That is why I appreciate so much what both Rev Billy Graham and his son Franklin are doing. They are providing real Christian leadership in these difficult days of serious moral decline in western culture. Rather than diss them, we should be thanking them for calling the church to repentance and real spiritual awakening. We need many more men and women of God like them who are willing to stand up and be counted, regardless of the attacks from those who have declared that “Caesar is Lord”.
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June Miller, and all who hold God’s view and voted for Hillary can call themselves Christians?
Surely you jest.
If you cannot see what SCOTUS, Congress and the Democratic Party has done to Christians and the American people you are blind.
Small church or not this is a sad documentary of Franklin Graham’s worldwide work. Is he perfect? No. Are you or I perfect? No. Is any Is anyone perfect in this life? No.
Contrary to what you, others and the small town poster think, following are a few of the things that have happened to Christians in America.
For the last 60-70 years our country has turned it’s back on God. For example:
Since the United States Supreme Court [SCOTUS] ruled (erroneously I believe) in 1948 that [religious instruction in public schools is a violation of the establishment clause and therefore unconstitutional.] Many Constitutional judicial scholars believe this is in error, me included.
This single ruling has created numerous behavioral and other changes in our society since; along with other SCOTUS decisions:
• School prayer banned
• Bibles removed from school
• Ten Commandment removal from public domain
• Nativity scene removal
• Christian oriented plays, songs, etc., excluded.
• Same sex marriage
• Homosexuality
• Infanticide
• Judicial sin
• Eldercide [My word: To deny or delay surgical procedures and medication to the elderly causing or attributing to their death – a recent phenomenon]
• Religious freedom does not trump federal law
• Teaching evolution is fine, creationism and intelligent design not so much
• All laws must be religiously neutral, have a secular purpose and maintain church-state separation. [What were they thinking here?]
Above are a few, I’m sure there are many more. Where and when will it end? Christianity is under attack in the USA and worldwide. Our Judicial Branch of Government is against God as is Congress, the President and all the minions (bureaucrats) attached there to.
Romans 13:1-7 identifies government officials as ‘ministers of God’ three times [NKJV]; that is a significant number. Our government has overwhelmingly turned from God.
I’m sure they think they are disciples of God but their actions speak louder than words.
Secular humanists have consistently denied the Judeo Christian foundation in the creation of the USA and its Constitution. Christians seem to agree; they pay homage or contribute to the SCOTUS’ decisions as we all do. SCOTUS has unilaterally in its judicial rulings turned us from God and churches have willfully consented and obeyed.
I could go on.
Glory be to God
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Well said! Thank you for standing for the truth!
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So you’re not much for that whole separation of church and state thing, huh?
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The separation of church and state is a Christian doctrine, based on the teachings of Christ. And while you can separate the church (as an institution) from the state (just as you can separate the church and state from the institution of the family which is also established by God), you can not separate religion from politics. In a democratic system, everyone, including those with religious views, have the right — and the responsibility — to “rule” with justice and righteousness!
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You’ll never win souls with condemnation. The only thing that draws them near is LOVE. Those of us who study The Bible indepth learn THAT is the only thing Christ’s own ministry was about.
Remember, He Himself refused to condemn the adulterous woman. (John 7:53–8:11, especially verse 11)
Why then do any of us imperfect beings think WE have the right to condemn anyone else for sin?
We DON’T.
Our only Godly instructions are to LOVE them, something Franklin Graham, so unlike his great father, rarely does.
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What does love look like when you see a child playing on a street where cars are speeding by? What does love look like when you see your teen age daughter takes a toke? What does love look like when your friend wants to snort cocaine? Does love mean showing tolerance and letting them do it?
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Well said, Hiram Ben Cooper!
June Miller, your view of “Christianity” is extremely distorted.
I will say that Trump is a buffoon…..a buffoon who is becoming very presidential.(despite popular fake news)
However, he never should’ve been nominated. It was the biased lib-media who gave trump millions in free coverage because they knew, he was the only one that killary had a chance to beat….but, they couldn’t contain her corruption, and their plan backfired. And we ALL have to live with the consequences.
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So you believe in a Republican Party that is producing an AGE BASED Health care plan? Where the older you are, the more it will cost you?? You are also blaming Homosexuality on the seperation of church and state??? Wow, you are woefully uninformed. First, almost all the charges against Hillary have been proven time and again to be lies. There were no acts of treason, unlike the current potus who started committing it during his campaign. Second Homosexuality has been around since before Christ walked on this earth, it didn’t just show up now. You may need to learn more history. Third, Christianity is NOT under attack in America, you want to see a religion under attack all over, look up the Jewish History. You want one under attack in America, look up the hate crimes being committed against Muslim Americans. Lets clear this up, NO ONE is stopping you from saying Merry Christmas to anyone, NO ONE is stopping you from placing a Nativity Scene on YOUR LAWN, NO ONE is forcing you to not work and produce a Christian Themed Show at YOUR CHURCH, all that is being asked is that YOU not force YOUR Faith on Others. Nativity sets are allowed on public areas as long as ALL OTHER FAITHS ARE REPRESENTED. PRAYER is allowed in School, just not in a form where you FORCE others to pray. All around the country, children of faith, different faiths, gather to pray before school, after school, or choose to privatly and quietly do so during their study hours during school. No one is stopping them. As for your assertions about this country being founded by Christian teachings, you know what it was mostly based on?? Just check it out in the history books and in the writings of the forefathers. They were all called her not by their faith, but because most of them were thrown out of where they came from due to religious persecution. Their biggest belief, the one this nation was founded on, was that their GOVERNMENT would NOT be based on RELIGION, it would be seperated from Religion, to prevent Religious Persecution of ANY FAITH by the government. This means that NO RELIGION gets a stronghold on the government and it starts making laws promoting THAT Religion above the needs of EVERY PERSON the government represents. Because of this, OUR GOVERNMENT, the AMERICAN Government, is charged with protecting, defending, and ruling with an EQUAL hand, every citizen, black, white, male, female, gay, straight, old, young, catholic, jewish, muslim, aethiest, and on and on and on. You need to learn to stop your HATE, there is no room to hate in christianity. Don’t spread hate and state that you are a persecuted christian. Cause you’re not a Christian if you promote hate.
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The separation of church and state is to keep the government from mandating following a state sposered beleifs. If the Gay community is an idealology which could be seen as the state forcing someone to believe in said idealology (religion) above another where is the freedom there?
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Thank you so much for speaking the truth!
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I hope Peter reads this excellent response.
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I so agree with you.. ON ONE OF US IS PERFECT BUT I TRULY FEEL GOD HAD A HAND IN THIS ELECTION AND I PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME FOR DOING SO… WE SERVE AN AWESOME GOD AND I KNOW HE FORGIVES AND GUIDES PEOPLE.. FOR THAT REASON I AM PRAYING FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP AND TRUST GOD TO LEAD HIM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION… MAY OUR COUNTRY TURN TO GOD…
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Thank you Sherri. Well said!
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Very well said!
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That’s a bit harsh, don’t you think? No one who backed Trump? In order to call oneself a Christian should all of us have voted for Hillary, or should all of us just not voted? I’d really like an answer.
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To have voted for Hilary would have been to support the unrestricted killing of unborn children; and that is to support the shedding of innocent blood. And the Word of God clearly states that God hates the shedding of innocent blood. And this lack of concern for human life was apparent when she, as first lady, remained silent when her husband intentionally intervened to halt any protective action by the UN Security council to allow the peacekeepers in Rwanda to have their mandate changed so they could protect innocent civilians. Instead, he (and she) sat there and watched, doing nothing, while a million Rwandan civilians were hacked to death by drunk interahamwe militias. Most of these deaths could easily have been prevented. But she said nothing and he did nothing except prevent what could have been done. I don’t see how any Christian could have voted for her, knowing what she is promoting and what she stands for!
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June Miller, “Judge not lest ye be judged.”As for you Pete, if God does not speak to you there must be a reason. Maybe it is because you are not truly a Christian. Stop blaming Dr. Graham and take responsibility for your own actions. Maybe if you truly talked to God he would answer you but you have to open your heart and truly believe. My mother and I had a discussion about a preacher much like yourself. She told me that there are good preachers and their are good ministers and seldom do you find someone that is both. By the words that you wrote you seem to be neither. Do not make excuses for being a small church. The size of your church depends on your ability to spread the gospel. Your beliefs don’t seem to be bringing in the sinners. So don’t question someone else’s religion if you have none of your own. By God not speaking to you, you must realize that God has left you or you have left God. Dr. Graham has saved more souls than you can begin to fathom. His charitable work is demonstrated in most nations of this world. I pray that Jesus may once again open your heart and that you may once again communicate with God. Until then I will continue to pray for you and especially for your poor congregation.
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👍
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Hi Kathie! Just eant to let you know you are not the only Southern Baptist who believes that this new Christianity is not what we learned as children I am so thankful to God that I was able to learn the true meaning of being a Christian and that the first rule is love everyine as I love myself. I believe the new Christianity is not the true religion and they are trusting people who have the devil in them so the hatred we see is Sarah’s doing. I wish Rev Peter was my pastor but alas! I am in Texas where the new Christian churches abound so I don’t go to church and my only leader is God. We aren’t supposed to worship ifols and people like 45 and the TV evangelists do not represent God in any way. They van talk the talk but if they don’t walk the walk they are not speaking the true Christianity of our Lord Jesus Christ. I want no part of the “God is Hate” crowd. God is Love now and forever and for anyone to express anything different is not according to Jesus’s teaching.
God bless you Kathie and Rev Peter and those like him who are showing the true spirit of God’s love.
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How does publicly tearing down and slandering a fellow believer — member of God’s family — exhibit the “true spirit of God’s love”???
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I agree. I wouldn’t want to have this pastor. .Another one skewing God’s word
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June, that is plain hateful. I DID vote for Trump and I prayed over this for months. I agree with some of Reverend Franklin Grahams views and disagree with him on others. However, I respect his opinion. I am still, and always will be a Christian. One has nothing to do with the other.
I do not understand your comment. Are you saying that because I do not conform to what You think a Christian should be, I am not a Christian? That is so sad June, and wrong. I pray that nobody tries to follow your expectations of what a Christian should be.
My Lord and Savior knows my heart. He knows I am a Christian. June, I strive to live my life Christ like, not Christian like. If I live my life Christ like I hold myself to a higher standard. Therefore, everyone knows I am a Christian.
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Excuse me! You are being very judgmental! Only God judges people. And I will be saved buy grace and grace alone. Not by good deeds, although I do try to be a good person.
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Exactly
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Really
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So true. Thank you.
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You speak God’s truth sir Your letter made me smile at times,but mostly I was overjoyed God is love he gives it for free also unending forgiveness Thank you sir ,thank you
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Peter, please correct the location of Mother Emmanuel Church which is Charleston (SC) rather than Charlotte (NC).
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Thank you for being so clear to God’s word in Jesus, bless you from an English small church pastor, now retired.
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Wonderful. Well said.
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Wonderful. Well said.
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“Here’s the thing, Frank. At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes.”
I’ll give you “who they voted for” or “for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes,” but you are off base on the other points. Christ himself warned against sexual immorality and called marrying a divorced woman adultery (one of those Ten Commandments you mentioned earlier), so I’m pretty sure those other points will come up. Yes, we need to be better in the way we treat people, but don’t claim to preach the Bible and then say that God won’t judge sin.
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I love it when a “pastor” preaches unlimited obedience to the state.
When the state commands that which God forbids, or forbid what God commands, the Christian’s duty is to God.
See: the book of Daniel
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You’re forgetting a few things. We are told to obey the law of the land and that we are to come to God of our own choosing. When did Jesus try to have the government change the laws? The state isn’t commanding YOU to sin, are they? The Christian duty is to follow in Jesus’ footsteps and hold ourselves accountable for God’s law, not others.
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But that’s just it. They state is forcing the bakers to do just that — sin! At least sin as they understand it. It was not about discriminating against anyone. It was about not participating in an even which, in their view, was a desecration of what is sacred.
And we are to obey the laws of the land UNLESS those laws force us to do something which is sinful….such as bow down to a Golden image (Shadrach, Meshach and Abednigo) or to state, as the Roman emperors demanded: “that Caesar is Lord”.
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Yes indeed that would have been a no win situation!!
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Actually the state (or at least the court (incorrect) ruling in this case IS commanding the bakers to sin. Providing a service for a function which contradicts the teachings of Christ on marriage would be, in their eyes (and I would agree) to partake in a desecration of what is sacred.
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These same tired arguments were used to discriminate against negro people and to uphold miscegenation laws (marrying between races). Jesus said not one thing about homosexuality. There is no sin to bake a cake; but we are a nation bound by laws that protect those who would suffer discrimination.
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Nothing that Christ said precluded marriage between races. In fact, Moses wife was black, as was the beloved lady in Song of Solomon. However, Christ DID say that marriage was between one man and one woman. (Matthew 19:4-6). Marriage, as Christ defined it, is sacred. It is so sacred that He likened His relationship to the church to a marriage, where the church is called the “Bride of Christ”. To alter Christ’s definition would be to desecrate what is sacred. Rather than this being a “tired” argument, it is a tried and true argument. 🙂
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Charleston …. not Charlotte , otherwise well constructed Peter.
Frankly
Ernest
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if you are actually a pastor, I understand why your church has only 30-40
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Very well-written and thought-provoking letter. I love God but boy do I struggle with many of His followers. So many double-standards/hypocrisy it reminds me of the Alabama theater refusing to show Beauty and the Beast https://jasonjdotbiz.wordpress.com/2017/03/10/beauty-and-deceit/
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Listen Peter, I to believe and was taught that people should care about the less fortunate, the persicuted, and victims of sexual discrimination and bullying as I was taught in growing up as a Catholic in a small town. I’m not a practineing Catholic now because I don’t go to church but I still believe in almost all of its teaching of tolarince and mutual love of one another. I am a gay man and proud of it. So you might guess why I don’t go to church any more, but still believe in its basic teaching of good and kindness to others. Why does Frank teach hate to select groups of people? How does a “man of God” justify hate. I don’t understand Christians who practice discrimination. I was NEVER taught that, am I missing something? Was Frank taught that from his father? If so I’ll pray for him even thought I don’t pray any more and his flock. Thank you “small town preacher” for reminding me of the good teaching that I received. I am a good man because of it no matter the HATE preaching of Frank and his followers.
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Thank you Peter for your sense of purpose and honesty and for speaking your truth. I am a non-religion good-deed doer. There have only been a few instances in my life that would give me true hope that I could find common interests with the religious agenda. The leadership of Pope Francis is one, the FB group Christian Left is another, an now your letter. Thank you Peter.
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I am a former baptist and am now an atheist, but this gentleman exemplifies everything good I’ve heard in defense of religion. Peter you are a leader for your community keep up the good work and I’d gladly stand beside you at any rally/protest/soup kitchen.
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If Peter is correct, hopefully you will feel led to stand beside him in church.
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God bless you Peter
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Absolutely EXCELLENT!
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Amen!!!!
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Thank you for your letter and for sharing it openly. Though I no longer am a Christian, I grew up in the Mennonite faith and have family and friends who are still active in those communities. I was raised with those values that sound similar to those you espouse, and I am grateful for my background and the j fkuences it has made in my life. You pose serious challenges to Mr Graham and while I doubt they will influence him, your challenges should not be ignored by the rest of us. Thank you, indeed.
Todd
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This letter hits the nail right on the head thank Pete for saying what is on a lot of Christians mines concerning faith and the teachings of the Bible.
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Well put Reverend. Thank you.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you.
But one edit: Charleston, not Charlotte
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Bravo, Pastor Peter!! You are a true and grace-filled follower of Jesus! Thank you for this inspired message. ❤️
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Love the letter. Please make a correction: Mother Emanuel church where the shooting happened is in Charleston, SC, not Charlotte, NC.
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Thank you for writing this. This hits at things I’ve struggled with for years.
As a note: Emanuel AME Church is in Charleston, not Charlotte.
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Can I just say “Amen”?
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I”m sorry but while I might agree with most of your letter, the way in which you ended it undid all that, and demonstrates that you don’t comprehend what is really going on these days.
So says another small town pastor without the money, prestige, and power. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, regardless, even if we couldn’t disagree more.
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Bless you brother. God is with you. This would have been more compelling to me if the tone had not been so condescending. Somehow I’m not feeling “the love”.
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My thoughts exactly.
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Peter is judging ‘Frank’, as he calls him. God is the judge. The letter sounds as though scripture has been re-interpreted to meet the needs of the world. The path is narrow, but more and more churches are re-interpreting God’s word to make the path wide open to please the people. God does not change and neither does scripture.
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Thanks Beth. I agree. Thanks for standing up for the Truth!
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Can I just say “Amen”?
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I thank God for using you
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As close to a perfect description of the dismay with Franklin Graham as I have seen. Thank you. The Church I serve is just like yours. I am the only full time open communion minister in this rural County. I’ve been here for 29+ years. I cannot see any Good News in the proclamations of Franklin Graham. I know however, that I will never reach the numbers of people that Mr. Graham reaches, but that is OK. My ministry is right here, with these people. But I have to admit, that sometimes my work is cleaning up the moral messes that Franklin Graham and his folks are making. After I leave or die, I trust that God will continue this community, because the people are so good and faithful, even when that goodness and faithfulness has been tested. See you in the Kingdom.
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Thank you Paul, for what you do. Soldier on….God Bless.
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Just wondering “pastor”, if you’ve ever read the 18th chapter of Matthew, where it speaks of how to address another who has “gone astray”, or who has offended you? It’s very private, to begin with, then escalates. No where does it speak of calling someone out in a public forum or open letter for all to see. You take that person aside in private. This is poor leadership any way you look at it!
For my part, I apologize for replying in public, as I do not have any way of responding to you in private, otherwise I would have. Feel free to email me and we can continue our “conversation”.
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Your dilemma of replying in public amy mirror Pastor Peter’s, huh?
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Thanks for setting him straight, if he was to tell us who he really is half of his people would leave his church…
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You clearly don’t understand what an open letter is do you? An open letter is a way for a talented writer to respond to someone and allow many many others to share in that response. How exactly would you suggest that the small-town pastor speak with Franklin Graham directly? I doubt if a stranger has any way of contacting Franklin Graham personally and probably not even an email address.
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Its not hard to find Franklin Graham. Just google Samaritan’s Purse and find their website. It has contact information 🙂
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“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” is about as public as it gets. Where was the indignation for sin during slavery, lynchings, Jim Crow, school shootings, police brutality, and and throwing out “hardened criminal” mothers of little children to get the trash out of America. Do we prefer bringing babies into the world only to kill them by poverty, lack of healthcare, automatic weapons brought to school, and poisoned government water. Are we so afraid of losing “our” religion that we insult everyone else’s. Franklin Graham had the right to say what he did, but I don’t think Jesus Christ every would have. The choice between cheating everyone justly and following a perverted leader seems to be very clear to me. “He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.” You seem to be astute concerning the Bible, look that passage up in Micah. Unjust and unmerciful treat of the poor and needy was what lead Israel in exile in the Bible. Profit does not equal righteousness.
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James. Franklin Graham has done more to help the poor people than most Christians (especially those who condemn and “cast stones” at him) could ever dream of. And “do justly” means speaking out for the poor and needy and those “destined for slaughter”. That includes the innocent unborn of our nations. God hates the shedding of innocent blood. And killing unborn children does exactly that. Rather than demonize Rev Graham as so many on this blog have done, we should be thanking him for all the assistance he gives to the poor — all over the world– and for standing up for God’s standards of justice, even when it is not politically correct to do so.
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One should not HAVE to bake a cake for anything.
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Then get out of the public business arena.
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Exactly! Thank you!
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So Carolyn, if you were in public business as a baker and someone asked you to bake a cake to celebrate the succdss of Ashley Madison’s promotion of adultery in America, would you do so?
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amen
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In a word, Bravo💖
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Peter you have in one letter destroyed the sanctimonious religious hypocrites who claim to be the leaders of the Christian faith in this country. You are the true faith and the true servants of God not Franklin Graham and his kind who rip off followers so they can live the high life.
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This is perfect– one correction: the location of Mother Emanuel in the second graf is Charleston, SC and not Charlotte, NC.
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Thank you, Peter. You spoke my heart.
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Thank you.
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POWERFUL Letter. Thank you Pastyor Peter for taking the time to write this letter…Talk about righteous accountability!
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this is from a real Christian practicing real faith not a fake like Graham or Robertson or any of the other mega fake pastors or right wing hate mongers who are so fake !
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FYI, Preacher: “Mother Emmanuel” church is in CHARLESTON, SC, not Charlotte.
Jus’ keepin’ ya honest, Shugah! 😉
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Thank you. Our very small church occasionally has participated in his shoe box charity, but I realized that he likes the poor and hungry to be at quite a distance from the United States. I guess for many Christians they don’t mind taking care of brown people as long as they stay on their side of the big pond and what they give them can fit in a shoe box.
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Thanks for your good words. You might want to correct your reference to the attack on the saints of Mother A.M.E. church. It was in Charleston, not Charlotte.
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Awesome!❤️
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FYI, the Mother Emmanuel shooting was in Charleston, SC and not Charlotte.
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Beautiful!
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I’m speechless in the best possible way. This is ALL I’ve wanted to say for months summarized in a more beautiful and truthful way than I could’ve articulated it. THANK YOU!
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Thank you for saying what is in my heart.
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Doesn’t need my reply, besides, Amen.
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Wonderful letter. Mother Emmanuel is in Charleston, South Carolina though not Charlotte, NC.
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AMEN! and again I say, “AMEN!”
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Franklin, your father the great Christian minister Billy Graham spent his entire life saving souls and advising Presidents without lowering himself to petty politics. I so wish you could follow his example instead of the examples of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who I firmly believe have driven more young people from church than they have brought in to the flock. Please pray about what I have said for I speak truth to you with only love in my heart.
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The Mother Emmanuel shooting was in Charleston, not Charlotte. Otherwise, good article.
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Thank you, DoK daughter, for reminding us of what many ‘Christian preachers’ have forgotten or ignored. Trump is an evil anti-Christ and to follow him is to turn your back on Jesus’ teachings.
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Alice, to call Trump the anti-Christ is simply mean spirited hatred.
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I’ve got to say, Peter, that from reading this as an outsider (I’m Jewish), you have a much better understanding of your bible than do most of the followers of Trump. Mr. Graham may have read a lot of scripture, but I don’t think he understands it at all.
If there were more Christians like you, there would be a lot more Christians, as your approach is to draw others in rather than to drive them away.
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Well said, and parallel to my thoughts for a long (( long )) time. BRAVO ! … for your boldness, and fearlessness in confronting so many issues of this hour, and the wave of deception that have
swept over the masses. I wish everyone would read this, but sadly…they probably won’t. It is much easier to just ” go with the flow ” than to actually open up the Bible, study it, pray, and see what God’s Word actually says. Thank-you for speaking out, and I will add you ( and your church, ) to my prayer list.
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This a snarky and dishonest letter to bite Franklin Graham’s ankles. The couple who were sued for so much money would gladly have baked a cake for their customer. You know that. Trump is bad? His actions show that the things you mentioned are in his PAST. By some of your rude comments, I am not sure they are in YOUR past.
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Thank you for this. Thank you so much. This is what I believe as well.
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If I could find Peter’s church I would send a donation. Very well said!
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Brother Peter, I have to say your letter sends sharp pains through my spirit. While you are right on most of the items you mention, you are not right in the way you address Pastor Graham. Is there a time when what you know is absolutely right and true but wrong to make public – absolutely. Whether Pastor Graham is right or wrong is not the point. You, sir are dead wrong in HOW you present your argument. David (prior to becoming king) said in I Samuel 26:9, But David said to Abishai, “Do not destroy him, for who can stretch out his hand against the LORD’s anointed and be without guilt?” Sir, I challenge you to make this right by apologizing to Pastor Graham…….and, I want you to know, I am challenging myself to better understand those whose shoes I don’t walk in.
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Well said. I agree wholeheartedly
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AMEN Peter!!
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Thank you Peter for such a great letter and a reminder of what a true Christian should be doing, thinking and acting. It would be a pleasure to meet someone like you and heart them truly preach Gods love…
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I have been wanting to say the same thing. Couldn’t have been better said. Thank you.
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Thank you.
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AMEN!!
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Wow Peter,
Thank you so much for being you.
God bless and keep you, may His face shine upon you all the days of your life.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
In friendship, in Christian brotherhood,
A gay, single dad from Indiana
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Reblogged this on Myriad Shades of Gray and commented:
I could not possibly have said this any better. So I won’t try.
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Your insulting left-wing snobbery shows you know nothing about Franklin Graham, or his work!
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Exactly.
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Excellent
Excellent! We have been infiltrated, over run and now led by false prophets. So relieving to read honest words from an honest preacher! Thank you for your words for they are sorely needed!
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This is wonderful, but the Mother Emanuel Church is in Charleston, SC, not Charlotte. Sorry to nitpick.
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Amen!
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Thank you
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Spot on and Amen! The only correction is that Mother Emmanuel Church is in Charleston,SC.
But thanks for putting into words what many of us feel.
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As a Christian, there is much that I agree with here, but not everything. For example, citing an event from 1973 feels wrong to me. I suspect that very few people are the same people they were in 1973, people change, hopefully for the better. Anyways, thanks for writing, I suspect you put a lot of time, effort and thought into writing this. Greg.
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An excellent and poignant piece of writing. Thank you for speaking up!
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Well said. The policies of Trump go against Biblical concepts.
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Bravo to you, sir. I am not religious at all, but if more professed Christians thought and felt and acted this way, you might win me over. At the very least, I think we would be great friends. Good on you.
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poor thing, you do sound persecuted.
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Thank you for being brave enough to call him out for supporting Trump in then name of Christianity. I have not been able to wrap my head around why the religous right has supported him so heartily when he has been caught in lie after lie and his behaviors toward others are far from Christian.
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Wow. Great .I am from small Church town America.
I stand with you open letter to Frank I understand that Trump paid him $1000000 to support him I think that’s against everything that my Bible teaches me
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Sadly…..you are very blind then to what this man sees. From the media to the schoolhouse to the church with the rainbow flag flying proudly………Christ is under attack and it is a big deal. He only draws attention to it so that those who are asleep will see that the days are coming to a close.
We are surely being persecuted but it is just the beginning.
God bless.
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You are NOT being persecuted. You are being told, finally, that you are not allowed to force your abusive and hateful belief system onto others.
Only a bully cries “persecution!” when his (or in your case, her) victims rise up against them.
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Actually, the bakers who received such a ruinous fine were not forcing anything on anyone. They simply did not want to participate in an event which went against their sincere beliefs. And yes, the fine they received was not a just one. It was exorbitant and destructive. it was persecution, even if it does not compare to Christian children being beheaded by ISIS in Syria. It was intended to intimidate, bully and force people to accept what, to many, is the desecration of,what is sacred. True marriage is so sacred, in fact, that Christ compared His relationship with the Church to that of a wedding. And we know Christ’s definition of a marriage is! It is clearly laid out in Matthew 19:1-12.
Fortunately, these strong arm, bullying tactics of the Oregon state government is having the opposite effect that was intended. It is waking up a very sleep Church to the agenda of those who would seek to destroy the Christian faith, and causing true believers to speak out and prepare!
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I actually was wondering who wrote this ? Was it Pastor Olsen? I just wasn’t sure as it is signed Pete…..and I did not know if the Pastor is Pastor Pete Olsen or if this was written by some one else
Thanks if anyone can tell me who wrote this letter to Frank.
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Your letter to Pastor Franklin Graham is anything but humble, you have much pride in the fact that you are from a small church. The arrogance in your tone pretty much show the true nature of the letter and there is nothing godly about it. Persecution comes in many forms but I guess in your mind only those who die or are slaughtered fit in that category.
You remind me of Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah in 1 King 22: 13- 28.
I call you to repent, but I doubt you will so when destruction comes up on you remember this comment and tremble.
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I agree with this first paragraph. Can’t comment on the 2nd and jury’s still out on the 3rd. But if we are going to speak the truth we are to do so in love, not sarcasm, pride, and bitterness.
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Thank you, Peter! True Christianity expressed.
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An interesting and thought provoking letter from “Peter”. On the social issues that so bedevil Rev. Graham, I stand with “Peter”. Also for my sense of Christianity I don’t feel persecuted or under attack.
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Excellent accounting of how off base Frank is. This tongue in cheek approach shows how far from God and close to trump Franklin is. Thank you for your timly response
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Amen.
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WOW! PERFECT!
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Kudos to you, Peter! As a retired “small church” pastor, I couldn’t agree more. . . and you didn’t even touch on the inflated salary Frank pays himself.
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Thank you, Peter!!!!
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AMEN … I have no other words to say but AMEN.
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Great commentary! Billy Graham is spinning in his grave right now….
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Really?? Where is he buried??
Yeah this is sarcasm.
You really DO have your head buried in the sand.
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Thank you, Peter, for these words. I am a fellow pastor in France, where a “crowd” on Sunday morning means 50 or 60 people. We are usually happy to have our average 34 faithful on a typical Lord’s Day.
I appreciate your clarity and your courage in calling out the blatant hypocrisy of American Evangelicals in their blind support of Trump. The call of Christ to a life of love and service has been seriously blocked by this phenomenon of populist entitlement. I took the liberty of sharing your post with my friends on Facebook, and trust many more will do the same.
One small issue — I find your use of the en-dash or hyphen where you actually mean to use the em-dash, which is twice as long, and actually relays the pause intended. See https://www.englishclub.com/writing/punctuation-dash.htm for the explanation.
Again, thanks for your letter to our brother in ministry Frank, and, as we say in France, “Bon courage et bonne continuation!”
God bless you,
Bruce Dennis
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Bravo Pastor Dennis. The bottom line for so many of us is how Trump carries himself, how he certainly has pulled the wool over many eyes, and acts like he is a Christian, all the while his agenda hardly demonstates nothing Christian like; taking food out of the elderly and poor children’s mouths, his blatant misogyny, supporting a health insurance atmosphere that will cause many deaths and much suffering while giving his wealthy buddies huge tax breaks, supporting hate and racism by adding to his cabinet the likes of those with a well-documented history of the same (Sessions), taking Planned Parenthood away from women who may have no other means for reproductive cancer screening-yes, they do more than you think. What really seems hypocritical is the right’s stand on abortion (I am not judging, it is not my place, as it is not my body), you are staunchly stating being against a woman’s right to choose, but once the child you fought for is born, you want nothing to do with supporting said child with help with daycare, nutrition so no child goes to bed hungry, education, etc. This man has fooled so many and used a fake stand, which he cares nothing about, to get the vote, unfortunately. Too, he has repeatedly broken many of the commandments, and continues to (lying, adultry) on a regular basis. I am a sinner, we all are, and trying to always do better and ask for forgiveness for my sin, I am far from perfect, as we all are. It just is astounding what he has done and continues to do, and many turn a blind eye to this abhorrent behavior. This man is a sheep in wolf’s clothing.
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Kathleen, very well stated. I do not understand it either. Thank you for such a clear statement of my puzzlement.
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I don’t know how many pro life people you actually know, Kathleen. But I know thousands, and not one of them would fit the mean spirited description which you use to portray them. I can certainly say for myself that I have spent most of my working career in ministries to help children and others who are in need, including refugees, the poor, the starving, the displaced, etc. And there are many pro life people who are doing a lot more than I am…..including Rev Franklin Graham, the object of such awful slander on this blog. To say what you have said about pro life people, which includes Rev Franklin Graham, (even Mother Teresa) is simply not true. It is a canard! Don’t swallow it
And the reason that pro life people care about children and others after birth, is the same reason that they care about them before birth: All human life is made in the image of God, and has immeasurable intrinsic value!. We oppose abortion because it destroys a precious and innocent human life which has such immeasurable value. And everyone has the inalienable right to life.
You talk about pro life denying a woman’s so called “right to choose”. Let me ask you, at what point would you say this “right to choose” no longer should exist? Is it at “viability”, which is what Roe vs Wade says, and can include unborn children who, it is believed, can feel pain? Is it at any point during pregnancy? As some places, including Canada, now allow…..and right up until the time just before birth, when there is no question that the child can feel excruciating pain? or is it as some eminent academics and elitists (such as Dr. Peter Singer) are now advocating — some time after birth, when the parents have time to look over the child to see if he/she is what they really wanted, and there are no impediments or defects?
What’s important to note is that when that line is crossed; when society can destroy innocent human life casually (as is done in abortions) then there is no concrete moral principle to stop it from going further. It is, indeed, a very small baby step from turning a blind eye to the killing of the child in the womb, to turning a blind eye to the type of killing we saw in Rwanda, where over 800,000 civilians were hacked to death by machetes in a holocaust of killing and violence which could have been prevented if there had been someone in the White House at that time who believed in the sanctity of all human life.
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Wow! Right on! Such a great letter reflecting on reality while exposing what I call “actions of Satan.”
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Bravo!!
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Sorry to be that person, but Mother Emanuel is in Charleston.
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Yep. Geography is not my strong suit. Thanks.
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Great letter. People like Graham are why I don’t go to church and flirt with atheism. FYI, Mother Emmanuel is in Charleston, SC, not Charlotte, NC.
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Yep. Geography is not my strong suit. Thanks
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Well said! Just a quick note that Mother Emmanuel is in Charleston not Charlotte.
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Yep. Geography is not my strong suit.
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Dear Peter , THANK YOU
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Bravo, Bravo and AMEN!!!
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You have eloquently and concisely outlined so many of my thoughts and feelings of the time we’re living in and the current administration. Having left the church as a young adult and coming back to it from a place of love and service, it is wonderful to see pockets of hope where churches are turning their backs on propaganda and simply serving their communities. Thank you so much for writing this.
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Peter, if you aren’t talking to or hearing from God, there is a whole different issue here. There is no point in answering your arguments if you have no relationship with God.
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You pompous ass! Your hypocrisy sticks out like Maxine Waters stupidity, every time she opens her mouth. I don’t know what Your Bible says about God setting up governments for our protection and what our attitudes towards our leaders are to be but you Sure skipped over That part (or does it Only apply to when you want your way?).
You are being a terrible example to your congregation, with your venomous, disrespectful jabs, at Franklin and also our President. Who set You up as judge and jury? Just because someone is accused of something, doesn’t means it’s true! And where is this “love” you speak of; do You get to decide who deserves it and who doesn’t? And I’m guessing you have some sort of super powers to look in a man’s heart and know what’s there.
Have you ever asked yourself WHY it is, your church continues to Stay small? Graham’s ministry started out small but true love expands and Grows, faulty or weak love, stagnates and grows very little. Maybe you don’t have something deep inside you that just naturally draws people to you and you yourself said your church more often Doesn’t show love. Why is that? Could be their leader! I wonder….
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Wow, SJ, way to fail entirely to understand what Peter said. Relationship with god? I would think that someone like Peter has a much better relationship with his god than Franklin ever will, since Franklin is about as much of a christian as I am…that is, none at all.
Caroline, I would respond to your hysterical rant, but I think you are too far gone in believing in Franklin’s “gospel”. I hope you come to the light some day.
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Thank you so much for speaking the truth!
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Lol and who made you judge and jury. Oh and how ever do we know what is in a man’s heart? Grab em by the… I’m guessing you think that was fake.
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Caroline, if someone confesses to committing sexual assault why would you choose not to believe them? I believe that Christ proffered unconditional love, but from your words I suspect you have a problem following his lead. .
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I’m somewhat puzzled by the argument, which I am hearing here in a lot of posts, that the fidelity of the message may be judged by the size of the church, so that small churches are not preaching Christ as effectively as big churches. And having lots of money, of course, is further testimony. If the minister (like Graham) flies all over the place first class or even has his very own jet (actually Graham, who has a personal net worth of $25 million, has his own FLEET of jets) then that just means he’s the greatest preacher of the gospel ever!!
People who make this argument are conveniently forgetting what Jesus said about rich people. He said it was easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. Now God of course can accomplish even that, but one senses that it would be quite a challenge even for Him.
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What a beautiful letter! Spot on, with humor! Just what we needed! I hope Frank listens.
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Elegantly and succinctly put. I cannot recognize many “Christian” elements in what has been espoused by Franklin Graham but, due to the influence wielded by his father, he has gotten away with spreading his false gospel for far too long.
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I wish I knew where you were, because I’d find you to give you a huge hug right about now….
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“We just preach the good news of Jesus Christ; love one another the best we can (which sometimes isn’t very well); feed the hungry that come to our doors; care for the sick; comfort the dying; and bury the dead. So thanks for thinking of us. Rest assured, we are ready to respond to your calls to prayer and action.”
First off, what is so good about Jesus?
If you opened your Bible to John Matthew 10:14,15
we clearly see a tribalistic elitist supremacist who resorted to disregard and threaten unbelievers for their
disbelief.
Um, how is that exemplary behavior?
Call me crazy, but isn’t thst how an ordinary insecure
bully would do?
Additionally, according to Christianity, it’s the remedy to original sin.
Original sin is the result of Adam and Eve not knowing disobedience was wrong.
Think about that for a moment.
And now ask yourself, is salvation being morally lazy and opportunistic when one exchanges their
personal responsibility for their own salvation as they lay claim to being washed by the blood of the Lamb?
If one isn’t subscribing to that ideology, do they stand filthy before the god Christians worship, who is regarded as the most important being?
Considering the lack of evidence for the existence of this being, isn’t it paramount to provide it in order to be taken seriously, or has the definition of baseless claims been eroded with the desire to be inconvenienced?
Just know that more and mire ppl are beginning to recognize how incredibly dangerous religious dogma
is…
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Which bible has a book of John Matthew? I can’t seem to find it in mine.
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Agree with you and SJ. Thank you
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Original Sin: Adam and Eve were only asked to do avoid one thing in the Garden of Eden. They didn’t.
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I’m an elder in a small Presbyterian church. I completely agree wit your letter. Thank you for taking on one of the big boys. Some else said the Christians sold their souls to get to preach politics from the pulpit, out law abortion and have charter school paid for by the government. Thank you for standing up for God.
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Well said Pastor Peter
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AMEN BROTHER! ❤✊💪🙏
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Very well said! God Bless you brother!
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Thank you.
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Beautiful. I disagree with religion in general, but this is an attitude that we all should cultivate, regardless of our beliefs or lack thereof.
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Peter, I don’t recognize the brand of Christianity claimed as such by Mr. Graham. Thank you for speaking for those of us who try to live by the teachings of Jesus rather than the rantings of the political right. (There. You can see why we need someone like you who can remain civil rather than someone like me who gets angry every time Christianity is claimed by those who don’t practice it.)
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I take this letter as argumentative, pompous jargon.
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One correction — the Emmanuel AME shooting was in Charleston, not Charlotte
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Yep. Geography is not my strong suit. Thanks.
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What an outstanding, diplomatic and dignified way to put this man in his place! To show him how he is such a hypocrite and perhaps he has some lack of education when it comes to spewing advice! He is as far from a Christian or even a good person in general, as a person could be. I am not a Christian myself but I know that it teaches to be be kind to everyone despite their background or appearance and to feed the hungry and is a decent beleif system. This man is preaching hate and how anyone can think Trump is anything but evil is beyond my comprehension.
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Wow, now THERE is a pastor to believe in: not the angry, finger, pointing zealot or the hypocrite prowling the stage like a caged lion, crying manufactured tears in his megabuck suit… but someone who actually reads his Bible and believes it is from that source that his faith is derived. Good for him.
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That is a truly awesome piece of wordsmithing! I salute you, sir!
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All Christians should contemplate the words of this humble, but honest, caring human being and disregard those of the mega-church people. There have been innumerable hypocrites in religious history; the mega-church ministers of today are just the latest manifestations of them! The small town pastor has a caring heart which is exponentially larger than the big town guy… God bless ’em, and all like him!
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A truly awesome piece of wordsmithing. I salute you, sir!
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This gentleman’s letter leads me to believe that there could be a future for Christianity.
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WELL STATED!! Thank you!!
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Excellent letter and food for thought for the throngs that are caught up in the Trumpmaina cult that has also captured the enlistment of some, so called, Church leaders who are supporting the movement. Their support can only be considered a prostitution of their position and claimed Christian values.
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Excellent rebuttal. I can’t help wondering what Billy thinks of the nonsense his son is spewing.
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Thank you. In this letter, to me, an atheist, is the real spirit of Christ.
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Peter, at least the atheists agree with you.
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Having been a practicing Catholic on and off for 67 years I believe essentially the same thing. We have been given two directives from God; Love him with your whole being and love others as we would love ourselves. Simple. In 67 years I have never felt threatened or prevented from practicing these two principles, except by extremist “christians”. I will share your words.
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But, Leftism has deconstructed the word “love” to mean “embrace what God hates”. So, those “extremist” Christians… meaning those who obey God’s word… so, tell, me, the first part of that command “Love the Lord your God”… how is snubbing His opinions on matters show “love” for Him?? Note in the judgment scene at the end of Matthew 7 Jesus sends to Hell those “lawless” ones i.e. “acts as if God gave us no moral law to obey”. Also, Paul blows a gasket in Romans 6:1-2 when the people had that attitude of “hey, sin’s no big deal, cuz grace”. And, I didn’t vote for Trump, but EXTREME judgmentalism for his mis-speaks, NO forgiveness, and where is your compassion for those brothers and sisters who have had their lives destroyed over the forced-celebration of gay weddings?? Zero, read Romans 14 about other believers who don’t believe exactly as you do?? This whole thing is Biblical ignorance on display combined with ignoring 95% of scripture and the 5% that is adhered to, voils’ magically comports 100% with the Leftist ideology. The religion is NOT distinctly Christianity, it’s Leftism.
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Show me one person who has had their lives destroyed by gay people being allowed to marry.
People who have lost their business because they refuse to serve gay people aren’t included. Those people lost their businesses because a) They refused to follow the law and/or b) other people had decided they didn’t WANT to give their business to people that discriminate.
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The right to marry includes the right to parent children. While so-called homosexual “marriage” is quite new, there is already evidence emerging that children are suffering from the ill effects of having same gender parents. This will grow increasingly obvious over time.
Children deserve to grow up in loving homes with a mother and a father. For society to intentionally deprive them of this is unjust!
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Thank you Peter.
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I would love to attend yurt church. Thanks for speaking up.
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We’d love to have you!
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Reply to one of the negative comments Pete. Figured out your geography short comings. You are arrogant to say the least. There are many forms of persecution Our Lord said pick up your cross. If it was easy everyone would do it. Forgiveness should be followed by repentance. God’s grace is not a license to sin. Christians true believers are still human and fall short everyday.Seems like some people use that as and excuse to reject Christ. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah .God doesn’t play . God is loving and forgiving. But we are warned to turn from our evil. Take comfort we will all understand it by and by.
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Finally, a pastor whose views I can respect, a religious leader who understands and follows the essence of his faith! Thank you for voicing your concerns in this open letter to Franklin Graham, and thereby guiding those who listen to a more humane, compassionate, and I believe, truly Christian path. I can only hope there are more pastors, both male and female, who, like you, reflect the essence of Christ, instead of the fear, hate, and greed we hear from faux pastors like Graham who seems blinded by his own ego and quest for power and fame. I am sure I am not alone if appreciating your gentle chiding of Franklin Graham and those like him who seem to have lost their way. You seem to be a good shepherd of your flock, and your church is fortunate to have you. I am someone who has never joined a church because I have never encountered a pastor who spoke from the heart with the gentle humor and deep understanding as you do. I have yet to read your other sermons, but I have bookmarked your site because I am intrigued to see how you handle other issues of our day, the complications that modern life sets before us, and how you interpret the teachings of Christ. I may never join a church, but I am open to honest reflection, kindness in both word and deed, and believers who truly respect and live their faith with humility and insight. Thank you for your open letter to Franklin Graham. I can only hope he reads it, for surely he needs to hear what you say and hopefully come to understand the privilege he holds as pastor to those seeking sincere guidance. His message seems not to come from a loving heart, but from some small, skewed place within him that turns away from the precious essence of the faith you so eloquently express. May your congregation cherish and follow your example, not that of Graham. Perhaps Graham, in time, will heal himself so that he might heal and nurture others. Again, thank you.
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LOL! Best thing I’ve read so far…standing with you Brother Peter…you go go go…LOL!
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Anyone who won’t put a full name and identity on a post, even one I applaud, makes me worry that it is fake news…so tell me..!!
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Well said Peter. Thank you!
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Thank you Peter for your wonderful thoughts. I have felt the same way for some time. The scriptures show us that love one another is the highest form of worship.
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Powerful message here for All of Us!
Trying hard to remember, did Frank’s father preach the Word of God in such a manner as his son? Always remembered going to hear Billy Graham and feeling that he reached the hearts of many through the Love of God. Never felt like he only preached to the rich! Am I wrong? Never felt that same comfort, that same Word of God from Frank! Can tell he was brought up with a silver spoon! Maybe, Frank’s really Oral Robert’s! Not nice of me! Sorry!
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I have attended two Billy Graham revivals in my earlier days – the Gospel, the Truth, and love was shared. It’s sad because Samaritan’s Purse does so much while it’s leader’s condemning language almost wants to undo what good work they are doing! For ALL of us, the best is to “speak the truth in love” — condemnation and politics are just not a part of that nor should they be. I would assume that if Jesus decided to walk our sod once again, he would without hesitation invite Mr. Trump — and many others — to sit at his table. So how do we love these tough folks–not with condemning words, but with the loving truth of the gospel…perhaps, as I am thinking on this right now, we waste our time on these replies when we could be praying!
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Cyndy, you touch on some important points and your pursuit of a balanced perspective is refreshing.
1. Samaritans’s Purse is a good ministry which should continue and possible expand if provided proper leadership.
2. Jesus just might have a different view of the POTUS than some of his political adversaries.
Yet, what Peter is probably neglecting to consider in his efforts to rationalize the rise of President Trump and our current socio-political environment is the power of our peers, certain entities and influential religious leaders. I feel sure that if Peter were absolutely honest and transparent he would recognize the influence of these and other factors in his own thought process. The magnitude of “some” of the political/social problems he takes issue with (e.g. healthcare) are far more complex than the average citizen has time or intellect to comprehend in “political” terms. Having been within the mix denominational organizations and leaders I can only imagine the pressure and influence Franklin Graham experiences. It takes a very strong, secure person to navigate the complex issues of this world while carrying the baggage of an intrenched “christian” organization. I don’t know that I have met anyone capable of doing it justly and without fault.
I am a former pastor having recently left the pulpit “in part” because Christianity has become too political, too commercial, too socially compromised and too misunderstood in its purpose. Practically speaking Peter’s words do not help me to rectify any disillusions, but only adds to them. I would assume his open letter is an attempt to help. Yet, it truly only stands out as another symptom of the problems we endure in terms of a spiritual society.
One additional note: As we discuss this event, we are not wasting our time. You are not wasting your time. What you so authentically and thoughtfully communicate is valuable as it comes from a heart created by God and seeking his direction. I would hope as spiritual beings we are marinating our words in prayer as we pray without ceasing. Also, as the writer of Proverbs is recorded to said, “iron sharpens iron and so one person sharpens another.” Proverbs 27:17 NIV
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I share this mainly because it’s aimed at Graham, whom I consider to be the most sanctimonious, bigoted, purveyor of hate, on the national scene. R. Haugh
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Peter, it sounds to me from your letter that you are quite bitter about things. As Christians, we are to forgive others and that includes the President when he has apologized for past mistakes. God forgets them but people never seem to forget and go on and try to unify instead of divide. God has many people working for His Kingdom and not all do the same thing. Carry on and God bless without tearing a brother down please.
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👍🏻
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When did he apologize? I must have missed that press conference
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You obviously did… He said he was deeply ashamed and he apologized to the American people, his wife and his family.. Publicly – one of the debates..
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I have been paying as much attention to the messages expressed by Mr. Trump as my brain and digestive system can handle without multiple system failure. I have rarely seen or heard him express sorrow, contrition or any form of apologetic statements, at least in the American English language with which I am most familiar. I truly believe his speech organs would become paralyzed if he would make such an effort. Everything he has said, done or experienced is so superior to any other words, deeds or events in all of human history, by his own declaration, as to be so far beyond the ability of us mere mortals to comprehend that we must simply accept his viewpoint without murmur, contraindication or dissent. Thanks but no thanks.
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It’s amazing how many evangelical Christians are suddenly willing to forgive sinners when for the last 50 years they’ve been pointing their accusatory fingers from atop their moral majority high horse.
Remember when Franklin Graham forgave Bill Clinton for his sins? Ya, me neither. Didn’t happen.
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Ditto! … what ^they^ wrote.
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Brilliant! Two minor corrections; one about the spelling of Emanuel and the other about geography. Mother Emanuel Church is in Charleston, South Carolina.
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@Val: You attack the author personally by calling him “bitter” and avoid discussing the content of his message. I would like to hear what you think of his message. Is he wrong about what the Bible says about feeding your enemies? Is he wrong about taking care of the sick? Do you think that it is hypocritical of Christians to support policies that go against these teachings?
He states that he as a Christian has not felt persecuted. Do you feel persecuted? How so?
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This letter is excellent. I see none of what I was taught of the Savior and how we’re supposed to act in the behavior of these stridently evangelical factions, who seem to trade exclusively on fear and hate and exclusion … all of which were anathema to Christ.
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Bravo! It could not have been said better. Agree with you 100%. God bless. By the way, I am an Episcopalian. We welcome ALL to our church, regardless.
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Thank you Pastor from a small church. You said this perfectly.
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Reblogged this on Retired and Happy in Murrells Inlet and commented:
Exactly what I believe.
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I will pray for you, when you have time read 2 Cor. 11v14
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“But if they are going to do business in this country, they have to follow the law against discrimination-just like the rest of us. If you don’t like the rules, don’t join the game. It’s that simple. Furthermore, I don’t understand why baking a cake for people whose conduct you find personally offensive is such a big deal.”
My friend, “bake a cake” is a pithy, rhyming misnomer. In each case to which this refers (small business owner wedding photographers, calligraphers, t-shirt designers, graphic artists, florists, wedding caterers, floral arrangers) the issue isn’t who gets what. It is the client demanding the creation of art (yes, a wedding cake is a customized work of art) that objects to the convictions of the small business owner. For example, a tattoo artist cannot ethically turn a client away for being white, black, male, female, trans, gay, lesbian, alt-right. But the tattoo artist can refuse to make art that says “Go Trump”, or “Go Hillary” or religious art, depictions of the crucifixion, of satan, of Bhudda, of harley davidson motorcycles, of LGBT rainbow flags, of Mick Jagger, Abraham Lincoln, the flying spaghetti monster, of Jesus, of scantily clothed women, of Chick-Fil-A, of “Eat more beef” etc.
Get the picture? Its illegal to refuse to give a gay person a taxi ride because he’s gay. It should be illegal to refuse. It is. It is also illegal to refuse to cut someone’s hair, based on the ideological, political, religious, sexual leanings of the person who needs their hair cut. It, however is also a gross violation of free speech & expression for the client to insist that the independent business owner artist/hairdresser buzz-carve love hearts with “Sherri + Melissa 4EVER” on the side of her head, regardless of whether that’s the hairdresser’s niche or not. See? If the hairdresser wants to do it, great. If not, plenty of other hairdressers, wedding photographers, florists out there would love the business.
Thanks for stating your views, and listening to mine.
That’s all I have time for.
Be blessed. & have a great day.
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But what do you do in that situation where there isn’t another baker in town? Does that baker then have to follow the law because there isn’t another within 50 miles? You can’t selectively discriminate within the law in the US. Period.
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Patrick: what is the cake for, how is it decorated, what words are put on it. If we’re talking about a generic bundt, a happy birthday suzie cake, a product off of a shelf, or from Kroger, Walmart, then that’s a different ballgame.
Or is it possible that no one in the universe knows how to bake cakes, except for specialty wedding cake designers? No bakers in 50 miles? No ovens?
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In that case, I’ll take the heterosexual wedding cake, exactly as it is pictured in your catalog. The same one that is offered to any other person who might walk in off the street.
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I assume that we’re talking about the case with “Sweet Cakes by Melissa” here. This case always gets brought up as an example of how christians are being persecuted but it seems to me that the vast majority of people citing this case haven’t taken the time to read up on exactly why the bakery was fined to the point of closing down. The actions that they were being fined for had nothing to do with the cake and were pretty decidedly NOT Christian. Obviously acknowledging that removes a pretty large chunk of “evidence” from the claims of persecution so I understand the reluctance to acknowledge those inconvenient facts.
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Absolutely brilliant.
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Excellent!
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You can’t have Jesus and your sin too.
You have to make a choice who is first in your life here. Peter read your bible again. Show me where you Jesus gives you liberty to keep sinning, while you claim you are saved by His grace from sin. God lifts one person up and pulls another down, God put Trump where he is. As a pastor you other choice was Clinton, now really pastor, really, a real man of God. . Voting for Clinton
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Just because he doesn’t like Trump, it doesn’t mean he likes Clinton. I don’t think Clinton is claiming what she does is Christianity… Trump is. that is the difference. you don’t call THAT Christianity. Clinton doesn’t use Jesus to try and get away with what she is doing… Trump does. But that is not Jesus
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Greg, you really can’t be serious, God put Trump there? Unless God’s name is now Putin I think you are sadly mistaken. Trump is a con man, a liar, a pervert, and an arrogant moron who somehow got a degree from an Ivy League school ( which I’m sure they’re ‘very’ proud of). And now it seems as though he’s also a traitor to this great country of ours. When are people going to open their eyes & ears all the way & realize what a danger he is to our way of life!
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You need to re-read Peter’s letter. That is not what he said. It is what Franklin and people who call themselves christian do and believe…they sin, and then say “God” is in their heart, so they are “forgiven”, and it doesn’t matter if they commit the same sin again. Peter said this was wrong, and it is.
As for “god” putting trumperkins where he is? That is truly a deplorable statement. Where do you people get these ideas?
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If God put Trump in the White House, it was not to save us but to punish us!
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Look at your sad president..Clinton looks like an angel compared to him. You are deceived
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God’s WILL be done. WE may not know WHY he allows certain things to happen, but if you believe that God has a plan and that that plan WILL be done, then you must know that God had a reason for allowing Donald Trump to sit where he is at.
It may be that God is trying to show us that we ARE NOT IN CONTROL. For some time now many people in our country have turned their backs on God. I am not the one to say but, MAYBE God is either punishing us for our sins or maybe he trying to teach us a lesson just as he did with his chosen people, the Isrealites. Remember they were FORCED into exile from the land that HE had promised them. They had to endure forty years in the wilderness. So, WHY would you think that WE are any better?
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1) Apparently you believe the baker should refuse to bake cakes for ANYONE who isn’t a Christian, for anyone who is on their second or third marriage (unless their previous spouse either died or fooled around), who has engaged in pre-marital sex . . . .
2) Specifically with gay people: anyone who doesn’t hold the same beliefs as I do should be discriminated against because that’s what God would want me to do to show His love and to draw them closer to Him.
3) How do you know God put Trump in the White House? Do you believe God prevents man from making his own choices–maybe good, maybe bad?
I’ve read my WHOLE Bible. Have you?
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He is a modern Cyprus who was an evil king but went around dowing good and his main reason for being the is to move the American embassy to jerusalem eventually
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That is the most illiterate and nonsensical thing I have read in quite some time, and I read Facebook posts, so that is saying something.
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This is the first time I have been motivated to attend church in years. Where is your church Peter?
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We’re in Bogota, NJ. Be glad to have you drop in!
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Thank you, Peter. As a small-town pastor in the heartland, I could wish I were half this honest and eloquent.
Blessings,
Mike
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Bravo, pastor. What an eloquent, plain-spoken and down-to-earth evisceration of the sad hypocrisy that garners far too much of the press covering religious calls to action. Thank you.
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Wow! Thanks for putting into words what I’ve been thinking. Amen!
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You might want to look up that verse about a man laying with a man being an abomination and also that verse that reads no man becomes a king or over a nation that God didn’t put in control. If you are going to quote scripture to Rev. Graham, don’t treat the Bible like a buffet. You don’t get to pick and choose the part that supports you and your sarcasm toward another minister, and leave those other verses out.
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Ginger LeVan Houston, you might want to go back and read that Leviticus passage in the Hebrew. It doesn’t say precisely what you are quoting. Also, if you are going to quote Leviticus as the authority for religious action, I’m sure you are going to check every garment you buy or make so that it isn’t composed of mixed fibers, you are going to keep kashrut, it’s ok for you if your daughter is sold into marriage….and your son stoned for adolescent sullenness. Just saying….
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So you don’t eat shellfish I guess, you stupid twat!
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Ginger, you must be a follower of Franklin Graham to be so perturbed by Peter’s letter. If you don’t agree with the sentiments expressed in it about Jesus, and what Jesus said people were to do…you know, Jesus’s rules for living? About loving and caring, believing in him, then what do you believe in?
As for the king stuff, for one thing, trump is not a king and he is not “over” this nation. He is a government employee who can be fired…and god certainly did not elect him. I believe that was the Electoral College…
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Ah yes, so many, many white Christians accepted Obama, didn’t they? And I guess we can say that Vlad the Impaler was put in control by God, as was Idi Amin, Stalin, and many others.
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@ Ginger LeVan-Houston- Do you expect him to quote the entire Bible? That’s not what Rev. Graham does when he pontificates.
I agree that you shouldn’t treat the Bible like a buffet. You either believe all of it, or none of it. If you believe it’s wrong to be gay, then you must also believe that a woman’s hand should be cut off if she accidentally touches the genitals of a man who is fighting with her husband while she is trying to defend her husband (Deuteronomy 25:11-12). You would stone your children to death if they were disrespectful to you. You believe a man should be allowed to sell his daughter into sex slavery. You also think shellfish is “an abomination”. You are a believer, so this stuff is all true, right?
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Exactly!
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@ Ginger – You might want to look up the scripture where God says He HATES a lying tongue and proud look. Two sins that are besetting our current President. You can’t be against homosexuality and abortion and then blatantly ignore President Trump’s hubris and pathological lying. (Add to that his constant slandering of Obama.) Many of us are just sick and tired of the Evangelicals hypocrisy. Either stand against ALL sin or shut up – stop picking and choosing. Additionally, stop alienating your Democratic brothers and sisters in Christ and work out your own salvation. Some of the most vile, racist and ignorant comments I’ve read were from Evangelicals on Christian websites. They’ve become modern day Pharisees.
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I wonder if you were quoting that same scripture when President Obama was elected… hmmmmm?
There are a LOT of things described in the Bible (especially the OT) as sinful, and even worthy of execution, but I don’t see many people harping on those things: being a glutton, being a thief, being disrespect to one’s parents, being adulterous, sleeping in the same bed with a women when she has her period, eating shellfish (that’s shrimp, crab, lobster, oysters, clams, etc.), planting fields with two different plants growing together, wearing clothes that are mixed cotton/polyester… I’d like to challenge some of those who like to ping on just one sin that they have as their “favorite” to live as the Bible totally directs for a year, and then see if they would be willing to accuse others of picking and choosing.
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Amen
Was condesending, and arrogant…I don’t condone what he did…and remember God says that Light has no dealings with dark, but you speak while laughing (seen in the writings)…that in and of itself is judgement..of which you are warned Not to do…and that the judgement on you will be heavier, Jesus said ” Many will say “haven’t we done good works for you..”.etc….be careful, all of you…Jesus also said “Get away from me, I never knew you”…He also said “you are neither hot nor cold, but lukewarm so I vomit you out”…so you should Know God has limits! This was very sad
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I have an honest question then. Did God also put Barack Obama in control?
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You need to carefully consider the meaning of the verse you have referred to. Firstly, Paul was writing to a particular community in Rome, and his advice should be understood in that context. Secondly, Paul’s comments presuppose that the ‘authority’ is benevolent, “For rulers (archontes) are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.(Rom 13:3)”
As history has shown us, there have been many rulers who have been a terror to good conduct, and you have a choice, to either accept Paul’s words as suggesting that we should without question accept all authority, even the ‘terrorizing kind’, e.g. Hitler, Stalin and Mao, or to understand that there must be some nuance here, and that the unquestioning support of malevolent leaders is not called for.
If we consult the Biblical prophets, I think we should decisively take the latter view, as the ‘prophetic critique’ of the rulers of Israel and Judah take centre stage. So, if God did appoint these authorities, he certainly didn’t have a problem with them being criticised for being selfish, ungodly and oppressive to the poor (in fact God instituted such criticism in calling the prophets).
Also, if we read the Magnifcat from Luke’s gospel:
(Luke 1:51-53)
“He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;
he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent away empty”
We can see that God also works to bring down the proud and the mighty, and who is to say that the critique above is not part of God’s plan in this regard?
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Did you apply the same scripture the same way when Obama was President? Or is it possible that leaders are not always appointed for the prosperity of the country they will lead? American Christians have long been idolizing America on a level with God, perhaps Trump is there to teach America a lesson.
Also, he never said homosexuality isn’t wrong, but Jesus was a friend of sinners. His judgement was for the hypocritical religious leaders.
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Encouraging + stimulating – thank you, Peter
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This is wonderful.
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Dear Peter…and yes, you can call me Jo. I am the wife of a Presbyterian pastor who retired in December from a church that sounds a lot like yours. Thank you for this thoughtful post. I am thinking of sending it to a pastor friend who has a much more conservative leaning than I do, and who voted for the current President largely because he wanted the Supreme Court to be more conservative. We have had this discussion for a while and I don’t know if he follows Graham at all, but, to me, you responded well to a conservative viewpoint, with what I found myself in complete agreement is the call of Christ, a call to love God and one another as he loved us, to love neighbors…Samaritans/Syrians/gay couples, and even to love ourselves with heart, mind, and strength. I would love to think he might listen to you…and I have sent this to my husband, because I know he would find in you a kindred spirit. Blessings to you, Jo
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A huge, colossal reverent AMEN!
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amen
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Amen and Amen !
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Amen.
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Dear Peter
Your reviews on this matter shows why you are a small town preacher. Perhaps you need to read the Bible more; and preach what the Bible says, not to your own understanding but to what God says.
You of all people in your little town, should be behind our President and not listening to social media. If your flock follows your ideals of what they consider you to be right, then it will be hell come judgement day!
A sister in Christ.
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Amen!
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Which translation of “what the Bible says” are you referring to, exactly? Which part of our caring for the least, the most vulnerable (the poor, for example) – which Jesus told us to do – is Peter’s “personal ideal” worthy of hell?
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Lol. No. No. And no.
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This is very funny
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You are kidding, right? Peter does listen to the president who boasts of using gis power to sexually assault women, turn his back on the persecuted and homeless, descriminates against people of colour, makes it popular to use slurs and violence, take healthcare away from millions, and now education. Trump would belittle Jesus himselve as an unkempt libtard radical and accuse him of being paid by Soros to undermine the profits of the rightfully wealthy and jail him for throwing the moneychangers out of the temples. Oh and deny him asylum if he is from a Middle Eastern country that doesn’t have Trump hotels and golf courses.
Do you ever actually listen to or watch Trump? Or read the Bible?
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Yes, sadly his ignorance is glaringly obvious. He should be attending church, not leading one.
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Please tell us what the bible says about being “behind our President”. I just cannot remember anywhere in the bible that says anything about trump or supporting him. Also, please tell us what in Peter’s letter is against “what god says”. He talks about Jesus, love, caring, being kind and generous, and believing in him…and this is not what god says?
By the way, why would you think he wants to be anything more than a small town preacher? I would say it sounds like he has a great life, loving community, and faithful congregation. What more could anyone want?
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Dear Mae,
Your comment implies that preachers with money, power, and media exposure are somehow superior and better qualified to teach the Gospel of Jesus than “ordinary” ministers, such as Reverend Peter. You also imply that you yourself are better qualified, by telling Reverend Peter what he should do.
Jesus spoke the truth to power. Do you think he would say “Bravo!” to the spouting of false and petty persecution complexes by rich politicians and pastors of privilege ?
Reverend Peter quotes many specific and relevant passages from the Bible in this open letter.
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Give us a few reasons why Peter is wrong and Trump is right. Or for that matter for what reasons we should support Graham or Trump. Comment at fedupwithdonaldtrump.com.
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Nothing like a good empty threat to round out a comment.
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The Bible does say that God puts people in leadership. Revelation shows that the US is not a power in the last days, so Trump might be there to cause this to happen. Just one idea some people have that say, God put Trump in office.
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So God appointed Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and we are not to criticise them? Your argument leads to absurdities. God calls prophets to criticise wayward leaders. The Old Testament is full of this criticism of kings and other leaders.
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So, let me see if I am understanding this correctly.
A person’s faith and goodness is determined by the size of the congregation they lead? Am I understanding this correctly.
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Amen!
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Pastor Peter explains exactly why he should not stand behind “our” President.
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Marta Pearson, you are an idiot and a hypocrite. YOU are the one who needs to read the Bible, not Peter. You accuse him of listening to social media when YOU are the one who has obviously been brainwashed by the propaganda of FOX news. Go stand on your head in the toilet and take a swifter path to Jesus so he can set you straight “Sister.”
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Marta Pearson- you are an example of ignorance to the highest degree. You are supporting a so-called “President” that is a psychopath. He is under investigation for raping a 13 year old girl. Is that what your Bible tells you to do? Are you so stupid that if Trump told you to kill your fellow man you would do it ? Well – guess what – you are that stupid. You voted against giving healthcare to all Americans, which will result in numerous deaths. Remember that next time you think your ignorance justifies backing a morally corrupt man like Trump.
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Thank you! Beautiful and refreshing!
Christian mom of 3 daughters, one of whom happens to be gay.
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Thank you Peter for your words. I feel exactly the same way but was unable to express my thoughts clearly you make me feel so blessed to know there are still God’s people who are not defined by money but by the contents of their characters God Bless You Pastor and Thanks Again! !
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Thank you for giving the world a REAL Christian leader’s views. It is greatly appreciated!
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Thank you for a thoughtful and accurate presentation. I have come to the point where I hardly recognize my country. Where is the vision of John F. Kennedy, the compassion of Dr. King, the courage of Rosa Parks and Robert Kennedy? Why are the President and Congress so intent on rewarding the wealthy who have most reaped the benefits of our republic? I am 70 years old and wonder where all the fear comes from. If we would simply follow the direction you so sensibly present the country would move to a much better place. I know it sounds like a ’60s cliche, but it is true: All you need is love.
Thank you again. I only came across your site this morning, but will be reading even more of your sermons over the next several days.
God bless you.
Thom Dillon
2240 W 3800 South, Apt 307
West Valley City, UT 84119
nycdillon@msn.com
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Your revered President JFK was not who you think he was. You should read The Death of Camelot–or watch a YouTube video based on it. Seymour Hersh was and still is s highly respected, impartial author who carefully researches his books and identifies his sources. It’s an old book, this is not a “fresh attempt to smear JFK”; this is public information that might have been fascinating when the book first came out, before it was forgotten. I got my hardback copy at Goodwill for $3.99! I bet you could find one there or at your public library.
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I don’t recall Dr.King or Rosa parks using nasty language, violence, or name calling to accomplish their goals. They were peaceable and Dr.King suffered the awful price of giving up his life for equality. I agree that all we need is love, but what we have is division and strife. It didn’t start with Trump or even Obama. It’s been a slow decline in moral integrity. I found this article horribly offensive as this pastor oozes sarcasm and judgement. Mr.Dillon, you sound like a wonderful man who has had the honor of living in a much better world than my children and I have lived in. I urge you to read your Bible and be like the Bereans testing every word that comes from a pastors mouth regardless of whether it is Peter or Franklin Graham. When we face God we will face Him alone. He is in control, not presidents, nor pastors. Blessings to you and your loved ones.
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You may be my new hero. Thank you for writing this. Your congregation is lucky to have you (as I am sure you are lucky to have them).
Yours in Christ, Suzanne
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I couldn’t help feel the bitterness and anger in your tone, Peter. And, therefore, could not finish reading your caustic letter. Haven’t you got something better to do with your time, because, this seems like a total waste. I know it was a waste of my time, except to say, practice what you preach, try some kindness n love, and by all means excersize forgiveness. Then, take the log out of your own eye before you point your finger at someone else. Be thankful and pray it on them, don’t lay it on them. Enjoy your life today.
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👍🏻
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Mark,
I found Peter’s letter spot on. There was nothing bitter or caustic in his letter. It takes courage to speak truth to power. THAT was the point of his commentary.
I find I live by two Commandments: Love the Lord your God with all your mind and soul and strength and the second is like unto it. Love the neighbor as thy self. Everything else is a detail. That was the central theme of his letter. Perhaps you should have read it to the end.
May the Peace of Christ follow you all the days of your life.
Connie
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I think you’re reading your own bitterness into this. Nothing caustic about this post. There’s a little tongue-in-cheek response to the misplaced self-righteousness, brimstone, and fear-monger preaching of Graham, et.al.,There is also some discernment and calling out of inappropriate stancing. But judgment, dripping sarcasm, bitterness – not in here unless a reader brings it.
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Really, Mark? I think that maybe the bitterness and anger were in your mind before you started this letter, which was a letter directed to Franklin Graham, one of the foremost non-christian christians in this country, who tends to preach doom, gloom, fear, anger and loathing of the “other”…as well as praising trump as another great non-christian christian.
I think you need to read it again…with a bit more open mind.
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Thank you!! Amen
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Thank you Peter. You know the teachings that I grew up with, but that I hear so little about in the news and public forum. I suspect if we heard more from “small town church pastors” (I grew up in the largest Methodist Church in a large international city, but that was 50 years ago) like yourself and less from the political maneuvering God-celebrities, more people would be returning to the churches and doing good work and expressing and living compassion and kindness for others. And a narcissistic man-child that has never know anything but privilege and “leads” by overpowering the politically & financially disenfranchised and by lying to those that are vulnerable and pinning their last hope on a compulsive self serving privaledged “victim”.
That’s a lot…but I am bombarded by this negative and punitive political genecide (removing healthcare and not caring that people/children will die) and degradation of women and minorities and LBGTQ and religious intolerance daily…hourly, by my state and Federal government (In America). And if that abuse was not enough…these charlatans profess to be doing it in the name of God.
Please continue to speak up and to these “men of their political god” and breath your compassionate words to the larger audience. Those that ingest this political insensivity in the attempt to demand truth to power need to at least be reminded that you exist.
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fantastic, but will he bother to read it? If he reads it, will he understand what you have written?
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Probably not. Graham is one of those (apparently) whose conscience has been seared with a hot iron. It looks like there quite a few commenting here with the same problem, too.
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Amen!
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So glad you voiced my thoughta and feelings here!
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You do bring up some good points, however, the condescending snarky sarcasm only detracts from your serious points. I wish we could all learn to debate and present our differences in a respectful manner. These legitimate differences need to be discussed in a way that brings the church and all Christians to either a collective agreement or at least a better understanding of our different opinions. We need to be more loving and tolerant of each other and that goes BOTH ways. Disrespectful dialogue does nothing but foster more discontent, more division, and foster greater I’ll will among people who should Love one another and shoulder each other’s burdens.
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Amen!
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Yeah, because Franklin Graham is always the epitome of love & tolerance & respect…
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So what? Look past the snark and pay attention to those good points. Priorities should demand as much. People are imperfect and sometimes it’s the shouldering of said load that drives one to exaggeration. I do it, you do it, and people you love do it. So, in the social media era, folks may need to relearn what thick skin is. This is soft core sarcasm. I hope you don’t listen to politicians or the news media. They will make your head explode if this brings out such sensitivity as to serve as a distraction to good points.
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Couldn’t agree more, Carl; seems childish to me.
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Carl, what makes you think the preachers in the large mega-churches who preach about making money, doom, gloom, and most of all fear, have any interest in listening to a preacher like Peter, who preaches love, caring, belief in Jesus, following his rules for life?
Preachers like Franklin seem to be a great deal more interested in the money they can squeeze from their church members than in saving their souls, or even talking about Jesus and what he said.
I don’t see any “legitimate” differences here to reconcile.
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Agree.
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Ok mi. I must comply with the smaall church Pastor beg to differ with JIM if Peter pastor would go back to maybe 60 to 70 years up to now and see the damage against our Christian society to numerous to call Rev Graham though very large is correct
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Marshall, I think you might have a point here, but I can’t find it. I hope English isn’t your only language; this is impossible to follow.
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Grateful for those who follow Jesus instead of a mouthpiece for him. Thanks for the timely and well thought out letter. Hope he gets it.
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Not sure this guy is for real: he sounds more like a secular humanist than a christian, in spite of his bible references, though Frank also has the full bigotry and hate of the bible behind him as well: heard of Leviticus, Pete? Can I call you Pete? You can call me an anti-theist, and perhaps see clear to agree, in some measure, that modern humans no longer need this stone age clap trap to tell us right from wrong. Secularists have led the vangaurd of morality since religion first began to try throttling the humanity from our species. Frank should crawl back under his daddy’s rock, and leave us in peace.
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Well, John, by invoking Leviticus to condemn others, you bound your self to every single Levitical law, and rejected Christ’s death and resurrection, and justification by grace. And ironically, Leviticus does not condemn homosexuality anyways – the passages that evil people use for that purpose are actually about a married man cheating on his wife with a temple priest. And guess what, God won’t exempt you from that just because you deny God’s existence.
Frankly, you are as much a bigot as franklin graham, worse actually, for you demonize far more people than frank does.
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If you don’t speak out on the side of Christ – the false teachers will continue to make life a living hell for the rest of us and chase us further from all versions of the bible – so keep at it –
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Great honest post. I would love to attend this pastors church.
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Wow! This is excellent! Thanks for writing it and sharing it.
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On point..my concern is with all the negative, arrogant and self serving things Donald Trump has said and done, how and why is he called a champion? This response shows a sad state of affairs in America and solidifies the hatred that other countries and governments have for us now. America the land of hypocrisy.
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Dear Peter,
I’m not one of your flock, i’m not even Christian. Though i have Studied the bible intensely…
I’m a pagan, and i would very much like to say thank you, because what i read in the Bible the MANY times a read it, what much as you put it, i’m not Christian because it didn’t move me , i am pagan because i heard those same things in the signs of nature… i too like to think my Great Spirit, is the same being as your God, if not they should hang out they have a lot in common….
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Reblogged this on No Place Like Home and commented:
Some good thoughts on “Christian” vs. “Christ-follower”
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Franklin Graham’s annual compensation of $880,000, revealed in a Charlotte Observer story, has some worrying that too many top Christian nonprofit leaders as well as pastors are seeing themselves as CEOs instead of as God’s servants.
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And remember that the $880,000 doesn’t include the “soft money” benefits of his position.
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This is beautiful. Thank you for putting into words what I could not.
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Pastor, I find most of what you said to be more akin to the liberal version of Christ’s teachings, as opposed to the true Word of God.
You’ve done what most liberals have. You’ve taken some incidents out of context and made them into non sequitur.
You’ve taken the narrative that government should take people’s money/labor and decide what to do with it,
You’ve even sunk so low as to pull the favorite excuse that every progressive, or person who can’t really stand on the facts, pulls: “blame it on the white male”.
How do any of the above promote the love, understanding, and free will gifts given to us by God, and exemplified by Christ?
How does taking a condescending tone do anything but further the divide among the very-much-shattered Christian community?
Your brother in Christ,
Ken
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Take off your blinders Ken
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We believe in the Word of God, but for some Christians, the Word of God has been edited to make their views fit. Shouldn’t we be loving all people, not just the ones that choose to love who they want.
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Ken
As you know, Christ was a radical/ liberal of the highest order. That’s why he made the Pharisees heads spin. Saul had to break out of the very mind-set you recommend in order to become Paul. I’m quite sure if Jesus showed up at your church and asked for gifts and donations to help him and the rag-tag group of 12 guys he dragged in with him, you’d throw all of them out the door for being dirty and lazy. You’d focus solely on old Testament punitive laws and rules. But remember how Paul, Peter and (centuries later) Martin Luther correctly realized what the UNDESERVED gift of Christianity really is. You can’t buy it, earn it, force it or judge others re. whether or not they do or don’t deserve it. Your talk drives a wedge in the heart of those who would try to understand the message of Christianity. Are you truly spreading the good news of the gospel? I don’t feel the genuine love.
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Agree…..I couldn’t help but seeing yet another “servant” of the Democratic Party spewing forth yet more talking points rhetoric dictated to Peter by his chosen political affiliation. Pastor? He sounds more like a politician. Perhaps that has something to do w/ his low attendance on Sunday mornings.
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Well said, Ken.
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This is just pastor to pastor? Then why am I reading it? And what’s with the condemning rhetoric? I don’t think you’ll be winning over your “friend” Frank’s graces with this kind of post.
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Calling BS on religious ” hypocrisy is the duty of every Christian. It’s the hit dig that howls.
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I don’t think winning over Franklin’s graces or friendship was the point of this letter. For one thing, I don’t think Franklin would either understand the point of this letter, or care what it says. He’s doing just fine, conning money from his church members, fawning after Trump, and being a general, well, you know. Franklin is one of the foremost non-christian christians in this country, and he’s not a very nice person either.
Peter’s letter was simply a reiteration of what many people think about Franklin and his cohorts in the other mega-churches, along with some of the major “christian” religions in the US.
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Excellent and valid points, except that Mother Emmanuel is here in Charleston, South Carolina, not Charlotte, North Carolina, as was stated in the letter.
Nonetheless, thank you for speaking with a voice of reason and reality during a time when too many are not speaking
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Yep. Geography isn’t my strong suit.
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It is also spelled “Emanuel” while we are at the proofreading task.
I greatly enjoyed your essay, Peter.
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Thank you for pointing out that error CMR. Also, it wasn’t a meeting of only pastors, I believe. Otherwise, THANK YOU Peter for this open letter. It’s heartening to see someone standing up for all of God’s children. Finally, are you aware of an issue about the translation of the original Biblical text regarding man lying with man? Here’s some text from http://stopbibleabuse.org/biblical-references/leviticus.html: “Martin Luther translated it as ‘Du sollst nicht beim Knaben liegen wie beim Weibe; denn es ist ein Greuel,’ which is roughly ‘You shall not lie with a youth (or boy) as with a woman/wife; for it is an abomination.’ At the very least, a wide range of translations is possible.”
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Good words. I find that in interacting with those outside the faith they mostly know what we’re going tell them anyway.
But they then look at our actions and hear our words directed against others, and my friends and acquaintances ask me “Is this Christian faith worth following if it requires me to hate so many people?”
The Christ who lived, died, and lives again is lost in our American Christian world of exclusion and fear.
The good news is that the Gospel is always unfettered. The good news is that the Gospel is always available. The good news is that the Gospel is always redemptive.
So I preach the Gospel, still, as-is, uncut, unfiltered, unrestrained, and hope that the people I reach who are outside the American Church will find their own way without the American Church. Can’t pour new wine into old wineskins.
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So an alleged preacher is fine with the State of Washington suing a Christian couple into the poor house because a gay couple refused to go find another baker. I think your idea of charity and forgiveness is far more informed by your political ideology than your Christianity.
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Actually it was the state of Indiana and Mike Pence started the Religious Freedom Act in 2015. I live in Indiana and remember this well.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/mike-pence-religious-freedom-bill-gay-rights/index.html
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I believe you might need to take another look at the facts surrounding this situation. How, precisely, were they “sued into the poor house” when they crowdfunded over $500,000 on the backs of the two lesbian foster mothers whom they saw fit to dox? (Also, it was Oregon, not Washington, just FYI.)
Regardless, the bakers have no one to blame but themselves. The law in Oregon explicitly bans discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which the bakers, by their own admission, were guilty of. (Seems to be a pretty clear-cut case of failure to “render to Caesar…”) Also, they were not “sued”…rather, they were fined. The subsequent damages they were ordered to pay were, again, not because of refusing to bake a cake, but a consequence of the aforementioned doxing, which triggered harassment & death threats and almost resulted in the aggrieved couple losing their foster children.
So: on the one hand, you have a loving couple, taking care of some number of “the least of these” and on the other hand, you have a vindictive pair of law violators. Tell me again which is the Christian couple?
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Florist in Washington, a bakery in Oregon (which is what I believe you are thinking of). The gay couple didn’t sue the bakery; the bakery was fined by the state for breaking the law when it came to discrimination as well as posting the couples information on line. Want to talk about persecution? Christians complaining about this in the USA don’t know the meaning of the word. As long as you are selling in the public sector, you must abide by the existing laws. It just doesn’t get any simpler than that. If one wants to discriminate? Make it a private straight, Christian-only club. I would ask you this. It’s kind of an old thing going around, but so very true. If a bakery is “participating” in a gay wedding by simply baking a cake, doesn’t it follow that all gun manufacturers and sellers are then participating in any crime a weapon may be used and therefore be brought to justice? I’m not anti-gun by any stretch, but just think about that reasoning. You can’t tell me it isn’t the same way of thinking, because it is exactly that. Those couples made their choices; that is why they are in the poor house now.
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The case in Washington State is about flowers. The refusal of service was the action of the proprietor of the flower shop. Citizens should not be forced to find another business because some proprietors can’t seem to understand the concept of non-discrimination. The days of “we don’t serve your kind here” are long gone, and good riddance.
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Reblogged this on The Website High Atop The Thing and commented:
I often struggle with words to describe my feelings regarding Franklin Graham and others like him. This though, this I can rely on as excellent theology and better than I deserve Christianity. Thank you, Peter. Thank you for being a true & thoughtful Christian leader. There are too few of you today.
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Agree😊 Elizabeth on nick’s fb site
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Great article! One small edit–3rd paragraph from the bottom left out the chapter. It’s 32, right? (“I got this stuff from the Gospel of Matthew, 25th Chapter to be precise.”) 🙂
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While we are doing a bit of editing of some important points, it was in my home town of Charleston, SC and not Charlotte (near where dear “Frank” lives) where the horror of nine church members were killed at Mother Emmanuel AME church happened. Further, and just as an FYI, the killer Dylann Roof was sentenced to death in a federal court case and has been transferred to the federal death row.
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No, it’s Chapter 25: Verses 31-46. From an Atheist who used to be a Bible study teacher.
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Peter, and I can call you Peter, right? What an ignorant letter. Just because it doesn’t touch you, it doesn’t happen. Just because you’re safe in your cocoon, no one else is struggling. Maybe you need to do some research on Franklin’s Samaritan Purse ministries, where they do help the poor, hurting, needy, the destitute, the burned-out etc. Maybe you need to listen to one of his Crusade sermons, where he lays out the Gospel. What a nasty, rude, uninformed, sarcastic and especially judgemental letter. I don’t know why this even got into the news.
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No, he’s right. Matthew chapter 25 gives the ONLY description from Jesus about the judgement!
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I am confused by your question about the “left out” chapter when your comment even quotes that it’s the 25th Chapter. I must be missing something here.
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God’s sole concern on the last day is truly believing in Christ as your Savior. A real pastor not being driven by emotional need would have communicated that in his letter.
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In the end, the bible says God will say to many that call him by name, I never knew you. The parable of the Good Samaritan shows correct theology is not as important as caring for those in need. If you use Jesus as a tool for hate I have to warn you, you have misunderstood the one you profess to follow. I thought this article was spot on.
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Great response, to Chad ,m Keith!
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“God’s sole concern on the last day is truly believing in Christ as your Savior.”
I’ve heard this many times and have never understood how Christians can buy into it, contradicting the words of Jesus as it does. As Peter pointed out, the one and only scripture that describes the last judgment in any detail is the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. Jesus doesn’t tell the goats that they’re being cast out because they didn’t accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. He didn’t tell the sheep that they could enter the Kingdom because of their personal relationship with him. It was their actions, the way they treated the poor and the helpless, that had to do with their salvation than any profession of faith. it’s the same deal with the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. The rich man didn’t end out in Hell and torment because he lacked faith in Jesus. He was told very specifically it was because in life he had what he wanted but never cared enough about the poor man on his doorstep to do anything for him.
Jesus was asked to summarize the law and the prophets once and he said that we must love God with our whole being, heart, mind, strength, and soul. Then he added that there’s a second thing that can never be separated from the first and that is to love our neighbor as ourselves. This modern idea that we can love Jesus without caring at all about the poor, the refugee, the immigrant, the outcasts, the sick and the vulnerable is not founded in scripture. It is the invention of preachers like Graham.
You may believe that it’s possible to be a mean-sipirited and selfish person, fear-filled and hate-driven and still be saved because you love Jesus in your heart but I do not. If Christ’s love is in your heart you love others as he does. If God’s Spirit fills you, the fruits of that Spirit can be seen in your life. For the record, scripture lists them as: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
As I said, I hear a lot of Christians saying it doesn’t matter how they treat other people, as long as they have Jesus in their heart. I hear a lot of people defend President Trump when he does something that is greedy, lustful, vain, wrathful, jealous, prideful, or self-indulgent by saying you can’t judge him because you don’t know what’s in his heart, and if he loves Jesus, the rest of this doesn’t matter.
It’s irreconcilable. If the Franklin Grahams of the world are right then Jesus is wrong. That is unacceptable to me and I don’t understand how it can be acceptable to any Christians.
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Mattew,
You nailed the essence of His message…
Thanks!
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What Keith and Matthew said…..
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Well said. Thank you!
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The works based righteousness in this thread is terrifying. I suggest everyone go and re-read Matthew 25 and catch the key point that the least of these mentioned are not simply the poor or downtrodden, but the Christian poor and downtrodden. This is why it says the least of these my BRETHREN. If you are a Christian, you will care for other Christians. If you love God, you will love other Christians. That is the point of the passage, and it matches perfectly with the full council of Scripture (1 John 3:17, 1 John 4:20-21).
Likewise, the prisoners in Matthew 25 are Christians in prison who other Christians come and visit and take care. Who was the only prisoner Jesus mentioned and supported in Scripture? John the Baptist, who was in prison for being critical of a king because the king was participating in sexual debauchery. Jesus took the time to acknowledge the righteousness of John the Baptist as a result, and we should do the same lest we be like the goats in Matthew 25 who thought they were following God, but were not there for their brothers and sisters in Christ. (And for the record, hardly any Christians are being seriously persecuted for their faith here in the USA. I am not making the case Franklin Graham is right to do all the politicking he does, as quite frankly I don’t think it is the church’s job to enforce laws upon society. However, I did want to Scripturally explain a passage that is being explained by lots of people in this forum in a works based righteousness, dangerous manner.)
In any event, Matthew 25 is not about how to get into heaven; the Bible is clear that salvation comes by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God. Rather, if you are saved and are a sheep, you will have love for the brethren (Christians), whereas if you are not, you will not. Your fruit shows if you are truly saved or not.
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The problem with denying grace like that is the question: “Who has done ‘enough’ to get into heaven then”? And what human could ever tell you that you had done “enough”.
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Thank you for your wise words. You have totally described what Jesus had called us to do!
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So your saying that you can go to heaven without excepting Jesus Christ?
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Treating people “right” doesn’t get one into Heaven. Our relationship with God determines that. If we are in right relationship with Him, we will (mostly) treat people right. Even mean, nasty people treat others “right” ocassionally. That doesn’t mean….
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Amen Matthew!
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It is ironic that Franklin Graham, who heads one of the largest charitable organizations in the world (Samaritan’s Purse), whose ministry helps people in literal hell holes all over the planet, regardless of race, national origin, gender, age, or sexual orientation, is now being condemned on the basis of passages of Scripture to which he is in total obedience. Franklin IS helping the poor, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, giving clothes to the naked, visiting the prisoners and doing all kinds of other acts of Christ-like love in places where others fear to go! When he sees people in need, he does not walk by on the other side of the road, as many of those who condemn him do. And he is being faithful to the Word of God. That has never been a popular thing to do.
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Amen James 2:18 I will show you my faith by my works
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Well said.
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The two principles aren’t mutually exclusive; we must believe in Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, which is exhibited through our conduct, conversation, and character. So your response was on point and reminds me of Matthew 7, where the Lord says, “Depart from Me, I never knew you.” So we can claim Him as Lord, but what does our actions say? Thanks for your response, but don’t discount us having to know Jesus as Lord and more importantl Him knowing us.
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Yay! You said it!
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Thank you. Well said.
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Can we be friends? Thanks for this.
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Matthew, you said it all, and very well I might add!!! Thank you!!!
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You my friend would make a better Christian than most!
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Thanks, I agree with you completely. Every time I read something by Frank I want to say those same things to him. I would add, his isn’t the teaching I learned from his father, nor from his sister Anne.
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I just want to thank you for this, your theology is unimpeachable, and I’m tired of being told that it’s perfectly OK for us to trample the helpless so long as we have a “personal relationship” with Jesus. He is without a doubt outraged at such statements.
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Excellent.
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I’m thinking of something I once heard from the comedian Emo Phillips.
“I used to pray for a bicycle. Then I realized I was doing it wrong so I stole a bicycle and prayed for forgiveness instead.”
The people claiming accepting Christ as their personal saviour is all that’s required to get into Heaven are bicycle stealers.
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I think people misunderstand the whole personal relationship thing. If you truly have a personal relationship you won’t be trampling the helpless. The whole point of the personal relationship is that it changes you for the better. You will sometimes sin and those sins are covered if repented but your walk has changed to more copy the walk of Christ than it was before. Agreed some of us are further away than others when we find him but we need to be headed in the same direction. If people are attacking the people he was helping something is very wrong.
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Fantastic post. I’m fairly agnostic, but once upon a time, I was dating a girl who was a devout Christian, and I went to church with her fairly regularly. One day, I told her my main concern with her religion was this notion of “a personal relationship with Christ” being the only thing required for salvation. I simply didn’t buy the idea that someone could accept Christ, live a despicable life, and still be saved.
She explained it to me like this: If you truly find and accept Christ, truly love Christ, you are aware that the basis of this claim is the atonement. Jesus suffered for every sin we will ever commit. If you truly love and accept Jesus, you live your life in a way that minimizes your contribution to the pain he endured for us. If you claim to accept Christ, but live as an intolerant scumbag, you haven’t truly accepted him, because you knowingly and willfully contribute to the pain he endured via the atonement.
That explanation didn’t fully satisfy me (because it implies that we have no free agency, or requires a serious mind warp/time travel paradox where the atonement hasn’t actually happened and/or is ongoing), but it definitely was illuminating. The person who claims to accept Jesus while living an un-christlike life isn’t any more committed to Jesus than a person who accepts their marriage vows while carrying on an affair is committed to their spouse.
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Perfectly said!
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Well said
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It was, didn’t you read it!! That was the whole letter..
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How else than the behavior the author described are we to know who has genuine belief in Christ? Because you say so?
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God’s sole concern on the last day contradicts what Jesus said in Matthew 25? Wow, I wonder why Matthew wrote what he did. Too bad he didn’t have good old Chad to set him straight.
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Matthew 6:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Clearly not believing in Christ.. or may be the verse before that one “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” We have to work at being Christ like, we can’t just act or say we do.
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Unless you believe the words of Jesus, “he who hears my words and does the will of my father…”. Nowhere did Jesus ever say you had to accept him as your savior, only follow his teachings; which were about loving God, loving people, repeating, forgiving, etc. That’s been the view of a good portion of the Orthodox Church for 2000 years.
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You are adept at judgement. Maybe you can lend a hand to God in that category.
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Only two comments in to find the first smug, self-righteous idealogue. Thank you for so succinctly justifying this thoughtful and wise letter.
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I think God will be welcoming all comers whether they follow Christ or Buddha.
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Spot on!
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Thank you for this. I’ve tried to no avail to see Jesus in “Christian” leaders like Franklin Graham. Wish there was a small church like yours that I could be a part of.
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The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan’s deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God’s government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world’s dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, “with healing in His wings.” Malachi 4:2.
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we won’t see what is not there, Susan.
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Maybe check out the local Unitarian Universalists.
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Susan, it may take awhile but you will find that church. I have found that the smaller churches are the ones more likely to accept you, with all your doubts and sins, and give you a home. Keep looking, the journey is also the opportunity to examine yourself.
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Thank you for posting your letter Peter. I just don’t understand why people think it was condescending or snarky at all. Seriously wonder what Bible some of these people are reading from. Not the one I learned in Sunday School certainly. I even wonder if we live in the same country. Best as I can see there seems to be a “Christian” church on every street. Sometimes there are even two. No one is stopping anyone from going to a church of their choice. What we (most of our population) will not allow these people to do is take over our nation. We have heard enough from politicians and our President about “Christian” people. If there is anything that scares me or makes me want to run is someone coming up to me and telling me what a good Christian person he or she is. Why do you have to say it when there are so many ways you can do it? If you truly want to live as a “Christian Society than buy some land and all live on it together. I really would like to know what books you all read. Certainly not history books and as I said not the Bible. Please remember Jesus was a Jew, never thought about starting a new religion, never. HIs goal was to free his nation from the yoke of Rome and to reform his church. The first book about Jesus was written sixty years after his death. There seems to be IMHO a group of “Christians” who are so disrespectful of Jesus and his work. that calling yourselves “Christians” is close to sacrilege. What are you thinking of?
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” HIs goal was to free his nation from the yoke of Rome and to reform his church.” Really? That’s something I guess I’ve missed in the years of study and Sunday School lessons and sermons I’ve sat through. And, reform his church? No church existed and those who followed him were largely viewed as simply Jews of another sort (more like another cult). It was some time later that a church evolved, soon to be taken over by political aspirants and power-seeking clergy. Today’s church is the one that needs reforming.
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Amen!
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If a person is a true Christian, he/she won’t need to tell anyone what they are. True Christians “walk the walk”, and have no need to ” talk the talk”.
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Jesus never tried to free his nation from the yoke of Rome and the church was not around yet. Only after He died and rose did the church begin to exist. His goal as He said was to be a ransom for sinners. His death means we can live. Government can never establish righteousness.
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It IS condescending and snarky, by design. And DAMN STRAIGHT! Much respect, Peter.
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For what it’s worth, Jacquelyn, my mother, who was a minister later in her life, would wholeheartedly agree with you completely. May peace be with you.
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Please remember that Jesus IS God–both God and man. I don’t know what Bible the doctrine you preach comes from, but no one will learn about who Jesus IS from history books. Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb who died once for all, so that mankind can be reconciled to Holy God. He was NOT a political leader, born to rescue his (Jewish) people from the Romans (although they hoped that’s who he was.) He is the one way that sinful man can have a relationship with God. Only people who have accepted God’s unmerited gift of grace by believing that Jesus paid the wages of sin (death) in their/ our/all of mankind’s place can be in God’s holy presence. Jesus not only died in our place, but He overcame death, and through Him, we have overcome death too! He was with God before the universe came into being! John 1:1
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And what of Matthew 19:11-12? Nobody ever seems to remember these words of Christ.
Also, why does man seem to add the word except to John 3:16? I am proud to say that I am a whosoever….
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I left organized religion 20 years ago. I would go to your church joyfully. ❤ Preach on.
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I AGREE BUNNY…… THIS IS LIKE THE COUNTRY CHURCH I ATTENDED IN MY YOUNGER YEARS…… MISS THAT FELLOWSHIP.
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I left 30 years ago, bit Peter’s letter made me feel hopeful again.
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I punched out, too, Bunny, the day the pastor of the catholic church I attended stood up on the pulpit and told us to “vote correctly,” meaning vote republican because they oppose abortion.
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A friend invited my family to her church. When I asked her how her church feels about LGBT rights, she told me that it was unacceptable. I told her, “Any church that will not accept my daughter (who is pansexual) is not a church I will go to.” I haven’t been to church since 1995. But like you, Bunny, I would go to Rev. Peter’s church.
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So, now you are associated with a disorganized religion?
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Pastor Peter, if one of your congregation members owned a print shop, and they were hired by a customer to print flyers, posters, banners for a group with values they objected to, such as a white supremacy group or Westboro Baptist church style denomination, do you think it would cause that person, or cause you to experience “drama”? Is there freedom of conscious only for those with your values, or for all? Please help me understand. Thank you.
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The law would apply there as well. Freedom of conscience does not trump everything else. Remember the biblical ‘render unto caesar?’. Also, 6th grade civics.
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You missed the whole point, Susie…
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You missed the whole point Susie. Last time I checked gay marriage wasn’t a hate group.
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Susie, there is one major difference between the groups you mention and the LGBT community. The groups you mention are groups that are based on racial bias and use violence and terrorism to suppress people. So, it is ok to not print a flyer, poster or banner that would perpetuate hate and violence which is based on racial bias.
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As someone with a darker skin than most of the people commenting…. I have a brother who owns a print shop. He has printed #Trump shirts, things with confederate flags, “The South shall rise again” items….. many things that promote things we are against. Such as slavery. Living in Tennessee, it is expected.
Like Peter said, follow the law of the land. That is spoken of in the bible. if you don’t feel like your spirit will allow you, find another occupation. That is an option. But discrimination isn’t biblical, holy, moral, or legal.
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I am not Pastor Peter, but I would like to weigh in on this. The question you need to ask is whether this print shop would print white supremacy propaganda for anyone. That is where the difference lies. If I owned a print shop, I would refuse to print such things for anyone. It is the item itself I am not willing to make. A person who owns a bakery will bake a wedding cake for others, but not for the gay couple. This is discrimination against individuals. In the same vein, if someone orders a cake with “hitler is the best” written on it, the baker would have every right to refuse, as long as they would not make that cake for anyone. It is a case of refusing for one what you would do for another. That is what is illegal. If a bakery does not make genital shaped cakes, that bakery cannot be sued for not making them. It is simply something they do not do. But a place that bakes wedding cakes has to be willing to make wedding cakes for all or they are being discriminatory and breaking the law. If one’s conscious will not allow one to treat all customers as equal, then a new profession might be in order.
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I left organized religion many years ago, too, Bunny! Would love to go to this church because they embody what I envision God and Her commission to be! Maybe we could go together!
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I also would like to know your answer, Peter
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I agree with the points that Peter makes in his letter to Franklin Graham but have felt ,along with susie tucker 32451 that the ‘freedom of conscience’ rule has to be applied fairly on both sides. If I were asked to decorate a cake promoting Nazi values, I would, I hope, refuse. Few of us are consistent in these things and it’s significant that Jesus said that getting into His kingdom (and being a faithful citizen), is as hard as getting a camel through the eye of a needle. The best we can do is to accept His love, make Him our Lord and love others as he loves-even those whom we disagree.
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susietucker32451, one needs to use moral reasoning. If the material ( posters, or whatever) is designed to harm others or promote hatred, racism etc, then a person could decide not to participate. Baking a cake for a loving, gay couple is NOT harming anyone. So, maybe you thought you were on to something, but, nah. Good try.
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There’s a difference between baking a cake for a gay couple and printing flyers for a hate group. The gay couple isn’t advocating bigotry and hate. In fact, they aren’t advocating anything. They’re just living their lives. The hate group is actively advocating its malignant belief that certain people are to be treated as vermin. If you can’t see the difference, then the problem lies in you, not Pastor Peter.
I grew up in a conservative family. Gay relationships had no place in my upbringing. But on becoming an adult, I gradually learned tolerance for views that, although they run counter to my upbringing, actually do me no harm. I want others to have tolerance for me. If I’m to receive tolerance, then who am I to deny it to others? As long as others do no harm, I can live peacefully with them.
Personally, I think the proper definition of a conservative should include the idea that one doesn’t endlessly pry into other people’s personal lives.
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Susie, that’s an important — and good — question. The difference between not accepting the business of someone who want to print a poster for a group with whom you do not agree ideologically and the baker who does not want to bake for the gay couple is that it is illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation. On the other hand, racists are not a protected class. So by law, if you wanted to say, no I will not print your poster because I disagree with your views, that’s legal. I won’t print your posters because you’re gay — not legal. The baker does not have to bake a cake with a swastika on it for the gay couple… as long as he would not bake it for the straight couple either.
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Good question, I thought the letter was rather condescending.
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Well, I think I may take a stab at that. Making a wedding cake for a private ceremony where only the people alrady invited and going will eat is, is hardly comparable to the printing and spreading of racist, hateful rhetoric to the general population at large (as opposed to printing only for the few members of the Westboro congregation) with publicly distributed flyers, banners and posters. The former is also spreading the idea of love, through cake. The latter is spreading hate through words and visuals.
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The motivation, purpose, and actions of racial supremacy and hate-spouting “churches” cannot and will not be compared to the concepts of love and acceptance. Your comparison is deeply flawed and misguided; people buying a wedding cake or celebrating a marriage aren’t doing so to in order to hate or condemn someone else. It’s about purpose and reason. We – as a society – condemn that which is hurtful, hateful, or malicious – not things of which we “do not approve.” (Although, it is still confusing to me why so many people are concerned about relationships that do not concern them between loving and consenting adults)
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Excellent point, ssie
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While a wedding cake does not harm third parties (except it is poisened or rotten, which I hope is not the thing expected to happen in American bakeries) flyers or posters etc. of radical groups will. They call for discrimination, spread hate and insult those the radicals do not like. So, there is a difference, don´t you think? I am second pastor in a village in Switzerland (near Heidi´s place, the real Heidiland). In case a group known for racist propaganda would ask for rental of the church hall for a meeting, I´d of course refuse. If their leader had an accident and the family was in distress, I´d visit them as I would anyone else. If he was to get married, I´d prepare the ceremony with as much time and effort as for anybody else in the congregation. But if his friends tried to use the church ceremony for political messages of hateful content, I´d send them out of the church. You get my point? As a baker, he could buy bread and stuff, and I´d prepare a cake, though I´d refuse certain symbols. I would never hang out posters. But of course all “normal” service would be available with no discrimination.
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The Good Lord gave is common sense as well as moral foundation. You have compared printing hate flyers, etc to baking a wedding cake to celebrate a union of love. What do you think Christ would tell you? You also are not breaking the law by not printing material you feel is hateful, and you are breaking the law if you discriminate against someone because of their sexual orientation. I could go on, but COMMON SENSE is the key, and prayer is the answer, but the law is the law. Amen
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I used to be heavily involved in large scale printing. Imagine my surprise when I learned that the same company that churned out hundreds of thousands of Bibles for companies like Zondervan, also printed the fabulously graphic monthly issues of Hustler magazine. So next time you pick up your NIV, or your genuine word of God Thompson Study Bible in the King James Version, reflect that those pages you so fondly caress may have been printed by the very same people who printed Hustler’s graphic pornographic imagery of things like multiple people simultaneously inserting multiple objects into multiple orifices.
At the same time, I wonder at the mind that could equate a cupcake with the deranged hate speech of members of Westboro Baptist Church. That’s quite a stretch, Susie. Perhaps you believe in transubstantiation, and that wedding cupcakes also become the body and blood of your Lord Jesus Christ?
It’s impossible to be in any business in America these days without frequently accepting money from, or giving money to, people whose morality, religion, and politics are different, even in conflict with our own. Clearly then, unless you are Amish or something of the sort, you have learned to compromise. We all draw our own lines, but I’ll be darned (as it were) if I can see the parallel between baking cupcakes for a gay couple wanting to commit publicly to a loving marriage, and helping hate groups like Westboro Baptist spread their filth. I presume you get your milk from Christian cows?
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Don’t worry. He is not going to reply. Notice he only recognizes someone if they express his views or wants to drop by his church.
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Easy. Hate speech isn’t protected by the first amendment, and those who engage in it arent a protected class.
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Those two groups you just mentioned are hate groups…big difference!
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@SuzieTucker- Under the constitution individuals are protected from being discriminated against for their religion, gender, race, age, nation of origin, citizenship, disability, pregnancy, familial status. I don’t think the law prohibits you from saying “no” to bigotry. Bigots are not a protected class.
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If that Klansman came to my print shop to print out something that other customers also regularly ordered, perhaps a hundred copies of a flier for a lost dog, I would have no reason to deny them. The gay couple was not asking them to bake a massive penis-shaped cake or to decorate it with slogans hateful or demeaning to others. They simply wanted the SAME TREATMENT AS EVERYONE ELSE! Bake the same damn cake that you baked for the last hundred couples.
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Susie, white supremacists and the Westboro Baptist church are recognized under law as hate groups. There are separate laws that allow businesses to decline services that are illegal, so a print shop could in fact legally decline.
Wedding cakes, however, are about love, and they are legal 🙂
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Baking a cake will not cause harm to any person, nor make them change their sexual preference. Printing flyers and posters for a hate group would contribute to that groups ability to spread it’s hatred. The two acts are not comparable.
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Are you really comparing the baking of a cake to the dissemination of hate speech?!
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If they were printing Hate literature then yes – it would be the law to refuse to produce it. but if they were producing materials that were not promoting hate crimes (like advertising a neighbourhood BBQ) then no problem.
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The difference is that the law forbids discrimination on the basis of unchangeable characteristics such as race, gender, disability, and sexual orientation. (These are called protected classes.) You can’t refuse service to a black person just because she’s black, for example. Likewise, you can’t refuse service to a gay person just because he’s gay.
White supremacy is not in a protected class, so it’s not discrimination to turn away the KKK’s business.
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A cake is not something that attempts to influence people to hate others. Gay people wanting to be married is not a demonstration of hate, but a demonstration of love and commitment… but refusing to bake a cake for them, or to allow them in your church, or calling them names… those things are hate-filled, and nowhere near what Christ taught when on Earth.
Loving others and treating them with respect, caring for them… these are Christ’s values, not just Pastor Peter’s values.
It’s too bad that your mindset is stuck in the Old Testament, and has never been freed from that by the Love of Christ.
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That’s not analogous. A printer can refuse to print hateful materials. A baker can refuse to bake a lewd cake. What they can’t do is refuse to prepare the same product they willingly prepare for others.
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I am far from Pastor Peter, but I will tell you that I think that Jesus’s saying that we should render to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s fits here. In this case the laws that discrimination is not allowed are “Caesar” so in the public sphere, you serve the public. Hopefully you can do it in such a way so as to influence the haters to move beyond their hatreds. If you shut them out, there is no chance to treat them as your neighbor.
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Great question, Susie. Dietrich Bonhoeffer faced the same issue on an incomparably more serious level in Nazi Germany. To over-simplify an impressive theologian’s thinking, he believed his faith demanded he should be involved in the plot to assassinate Hitler, while he remained firmly opposed to taking another’s life. He accepted the consequences of the law of the land when captured, but remained clear in his resolve. In lesser issues (no cake no matter how many calories was even responsible for a holocaust), I have come to understand that when our conscience or our faith requires us to break the law, we usually also need to be willing to pay the price and accept the consequences. So if I was a printer, i would almost certainly refuse to publicise anyone promoting hate and intimidation. And to ‘prove’ how strong my beliefs actually were, I would need to be ready to face any legal consequences – which in this case, while I dont live in that jurisdiction, I suspect there isnt any. (BTW, personally, I wouldn’t have any objections printing wedding invites for someone who happened to be a member of Westbrook Baptist, but I could not print a flyer promoting hate or for an event promoting hate.) I hope this response is received in the spirit in which it is intended, as we struggle to be faithful followers of Jesus.
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I can’t speak for Peter, but I can speak to the question that he addressed in his letter. Non-discrimination is the law. It’s about civil rights. If one of Peter’s congregants didn’t want to print hate speech, that would not be breaking the law. Not serving people based on the gender of their mates of choice IS breaking the law. And, as Peter pointed out at eloquent length, it is un-Christian behavior.
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If you own a for profit business, you cannot discriminate on the basis of a person’s legally protected characteristics, and that is the real lynchpin here. Those cake bakers owned a business in a state where the specific type of discrimination at issue is illegal. Without that law, there would not have been that judgment.
A for-profit business cannot refuse to print a pamphlet simply because the customer belongs to the Westboro church – that’s religious discrimination. They can, however, refuse to print for a person based on the person’s membership in a nonreligious white supremacy group, because that is not a protected classification (that I’m aware of). The business can also have a neutral policy against printing hate speech that applies equally to all religions, and all races, and all sexual orientations, and that policy will not run afoul of discrimination laws. But if the Westboro congregant wants birthday invitations printed, that person is entitled to not be refused just because the store owner doesn’t like the customer’s religious affiliation.
If you bake wedding cakes as a business, you have to bake them for people of every race and for interracial marriages, even if your religious beliefs would otherwise encourage or even require racial discrimination – which many self-proclaimed Christians in former times claimed, by the way. You also may not refuse to bake cakes on the basis of the couple’s religious beliefs, or for inter-religious marriages. It’s the exact same principle here. If you bake wedding cakes in a state that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, you may not refuse to bake a cake on the sole grounds of the sexual orientation of the couple.
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Carol, if you live by what Jesus preached, you would print the information and then try to minister to these people. The Bible says, it’s not our place to judge. The Bible doesn’t preach freedom of what you decide to do.
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Not in the slightest. It is my job to make flyers, banners, etc. I am responsible only for the quality of my work, not the content of the flyer. You see, that is what being in business is all about. I provide a service, and the public who chooses to use my service pays me a fee for it. I can turn around and donate all the money those white supremacists paid me to a black rights charity if I was so inclined, which is my right, just as a wedding cake baker can donate the proceeds from a same sex couple to some organizations that work to make same sex marriage illegal.
I am a disabled Army veteran, and I didn’t refuse to fight to protect the rights of those I disagree with…quite the opposite, actually. You may call me whatever disgusting term you can think of and teach your children that I am some sort of pervert…that’s your right. I don’t agree with you, but I would still fight to the death to defend your right to say, and teach your children as you please. You seem to believe that your religious beliefs should be considered above someone else’s civil rights. You forget that your rights end at the tip of my nose. Bottom line, if you choose to open a business, you must do business with the public…ALL of the public.
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I see a lot of responses that contain objections to your analogy. As a matter of fact, it’s not really an analogy, is it? You’re stating a principle of business. The people who are critiquing your example are projecting their own values in the same way as the bakers and the florists, but for some reason, they believe their values are “correct”. I like your business model, sir. I believe it reflects your military service and your defense of our country’s Bill of Rights for ALL, not just for those you agree with.
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That print would be about hate the cake is about love, bad analogy
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Agreed!
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An individual couple ordering a cake for a private event is a far cry from spewing hate and harm in flyers via “Westboro style. Taking the motive into account cannot be overstated here.
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There is a distinct difference in discriminating based on a couples sexual orientation and a violent group promoting hate. If you find a couple of gay guys wanting you to bake them cupcakes for their weekly lynching of African Americans feel free to refuse.
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False analogy. Required to do a printing job with objectionable text would be the equivalent of baking a cake with gay pornography in the icing. But this never happened. It’s was just a cake.
A true analogy would be for the printer to refuse to do a perfectly normal print job because those who ordered it had been divorced. You can’t do that.
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Susietucker: I think it would indeed cause some “drama” within the conscious of the printer, but as Pastor Peter points out there are laws within our legal system that prohibit discrimination for businesses who provide a service for the ‘public’ and everyone is part of the public regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation or self identity, etc. And there are laws against ‘Hate Speech’ so it would depend on the request.
Now if the ‘printer’ provided a specific service such as printing flyers, posters and banners for Little League sporting events only, then they could refuse to print materiel outside of that criteria. But they still couldn’t refuse to print Little League sporting event material for the Westboro Baptist church little league verses the White Supremacist little league game.
We all have to follow the laws that pertain to our business venture or those that affect our daily lives.
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Susietucker: I think it would indeed cause some “drama” within the conscious of the printer, but as Pastor Peter points out there are laws within our legal system that prohibit discrimination for businesses who provide a service for the ‘public’ and everyone is part of the public regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation or self identity, etc. And there are laws against ‘Hate Speech’ so it would depend on the request.
Now if the ‘printer’ provided a specific service such as printing flyers, posters and banners for Little League sporting events only, then they could refuse to print materiel outside of that criteria. But they still couldn’t refuse to print Little League sporting event material for the Westboro Baptist church little league verses the White Supremacist little league game.
We all have to follow the laws that pertain to our business venture or those that affect our daily lives.
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Read his letter again. The answer seems fairly obvious. If it breaks the law, then tough shit for your personal feelings. You do it. If not, you shouldn’t be in business. It’s literally that simple.
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Susietucker32451 You read what you wanted from Peter’s letter. What I understood him as saying is that you do not break the law but more important is that you show love even to those racists, white supremists etc. If I am hired by a company and what I am being asked to do is immoral or illegal, then I am not obligated to do it. What I have done as a black woman dealing with racists who do business at my work place is add that extra bit of love and engage them in conversation and sometimes even have the guts to ask why they choose hate over love and in some cases they leave and I feel we connected or sometimes not but I pray that whatever kindness I show them and the love demonstrated to them = mind you it has to be the love of God because on my own I could not love them = but I pray that my actions will be their conscious and that it will remain with them until they change their ways or that it simply brings them to become closer to God through me letting my light shine
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The Billy Graham style God-Business is another reason why organized religion & I parted ways decades ago. ….Self-aggrandizing money making machines that are Far too political to be spiritual anymore…UGH..
Keep the faith “small town pastor”….you’ve figured out what the Big Boys haven’t…it’s all about kindness, love and spirituality….and that’s it… If I didn’t live so far away, I just might be on the footstep to hear your preaching.
Illegitimus non Carborundum
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susie tucker, If that printer lived in a community which required all businesses to sign a non-discrimination agreement in exchange for a business license, then that printer either prints what is requested, or goes out of business. You want to own a business, you get to take the bad with the good. Your personal religious beliefs simply do not come in to play when dealing in the secular world of business.
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There is a huge difference between printing material that is clearly offensive, harmful and dangerous to baking a wedding cake. Really, you’re comparing two totally different things. We must put into perspective what is being asked of to the business owner and into our counter arguments.
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I left the Catholic Church two years ago for the same reasons you cite, Carol. What I see is not Christianity. It is BIG business and political manipulation run wild.
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I do have to say, that Billy Graham, in no way taught like Franklin. Billy’s only message is to find Jesus and find life. He taught absolutely no politics and was a huge factor in my coming to understand Jesus as a child. Franklin’s sister Anne does not do any politics in her email devotional either.
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I often find myself so angry when I hear Franklin put words into his father’s mouth! The last interview I read with Billy, they wanted to pin him down on gay marriage and relationships. Billy said that he had to many issues of his own to worry about and that was an issue between other individuals and God….
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A great man without money.I agree with the Pastor.We feel alone sometimes when folks talk how God sent a man.Who never knew Christ.We pray for you to stay strong and in prayer.God bless you.Please keep telling it like it is!
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Maybe it’s because I am 70 and see things from a different perspective, but the country and the Christian community of 2017 is not the country or the church I grew up in and loved. Thank you for your words of healing and love.
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I’m not even 50 and don’t recognize it either. Fundamentalism has taken over the hearts and minds. Too bad, because ‘modern’ Christianity was a largely humanitarian movement. See Hans Kung, liberation theology, etc. Not sure how we got to here…
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me either, Jan. Both are very different now.
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Wow! I had to read this twice. Renee’s my faith in love and Goodwill to all good people. Men and women.
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Bravo, Pastor Peter. Your thoughtful and insightful word reminds me very much of Shane Claiborne. Well done, sir.
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Excellent piece. I am no longer “conventionally
Religious”, but I agree with what you are saying 100%. This is what I was taught growing up.
Thank you! Well said.
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that has happened to so many of us, Marg. The problem with “religion” is that Jesus never intended for “organized religion.” No, that was Constantine who used the “church” to gain political advantage (that story about the blazing cross in the sky is just that, a story) and changed the “Catholic” (universal) church into the Roman Catholic Church. That became a political and military entity and resulted in things like the Crusades, the reformation, the council of trent, the Inquisition (ask Galileo about them!) and other horrors I won’t have space to mention. Christianity was meant, I am convinced, to be a way of living, not a long set of rules to follow, over seen by a machiavellian hierarchy.
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Thank you. That is all I have to say, really. This is the conversation I’ve been trying to have with my evangelical friends for over a decade. They have lost their way and I pity them, I do but more so I pity the rest of us who suffer the harms they perpetrate in the name of the man they call Christ but so very much isn’t.
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Agree with you and feel the same.
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Beautiful response, Peter. Amen and Amen!
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Well said. So hard to find the Christ in Christian these days.
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I want to attend the church you preach in………….please send the address! The church of love…………………….
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Tlcbogotanj.org Would love for you to drop in!
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Thank you for this. I have grown skeptical, derisive, and scornful of what seems to pass for Christianity these days, and it has led me to leave the Church altogether. I want nothing to do with this machine that oppresses people. It is nothing like the Book from which I was taught to read when I was young child. Reading this, penned by a pastor, no less, gives me some faith and reminds me that not all is as it appears on the surface. Perhaps there is hope for the faithful yet.
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Bravo and Amen.
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The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan’s deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God’s government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world’s dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, “with healing in His wings.” Malachi 4:2.
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Thank you for this reply..so upset with my friends who send me his blasphemy..i loved his father’s messages but his are not right.
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On what planet where you born or which version of the bible are you trying twist to fit your own personal beliefs? No great wonder why your church is so small.
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learn to use proper word choice, imbecile. [ you meant to write, ” on what planet were you born…”
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My sentiments, exactly! Well put.
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Not the hateful one you occupy, clearly.
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The greatest commandment is to love God and love one another. This pastor sounds like he gets it. And small is a matter of opinion.
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I suspect it’s the version of the Bible that has the Beatitudes in it. That has Jesus saying “What you did for the least of these, you did for me”.
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Written by “a Christian.” How utterly brave of you.
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Wow, you are why he wrote this. If it offends you. You are the problem.
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What an ugly and vindictive comment to such a spiritual and loving pastor. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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How dare you claim to be “a Christian.” By your comment, you are anything but.
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Another nasty “so called Christian”.
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Jesus had very few followers, according to the Bible, at the end. You have conflated marketing with evangelization. The prosperity Gospel preachers have the most followers but that does not mean their version of the Gospel represents Jesus of Nazareth. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer noted, when Christ calls a “man” (sic), he calls him to die!
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please inform us as to what your bible says, because mine matches up his…..
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The size of a church is no measure of how correct a person’s beliefs are. Christ only chose 12 disciples. If you disagree with Pastor Peter here, I am sure it is YOU who is twisting the words of the Bible. I feel sorry for you, but you are absolutely wrong.
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God said, ” Where two or three are gathered together IN MY NAME, THERE WILL I BE ALSO.”
So God himself doesn’t say that you have to have a large congregation in order to truly worship him, because HE WILL STILL BE THERE FOR THOSE WHO TRULY BELIEVE IN HIM AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST WHO HE SENT TO EARTH THAT ALL MANKIND COULD BE SAVED THROUGH THE BLOOD OF HIS SON.
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Please explain your comment to Pastor Peter. If you are a born again Christian it will be easy to understand his words, what he says is the ttuth.
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That’s a very Christian response.
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What points do you believe to be ‘twisted’? Disagreeing without sharing your specific points of disagreement don’t help you make a point. Pastor Peter’s beliefs and perspective actually are shared by many Christians from both large & small church’s as well as those that have left organized religion due to the hypocrisy shown there.
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The Bible does not teach politics but Franklin Graham does. It does not tell us to divide our love between politicians and the Lord. Go back to what Franklin’s dad taught and you will see real faith. I do believe that God hates politics and that many of you (I don’t know you, so won’t say it’s you) use politics as your religion.
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Frankly I hear nothing but an arrogant, self righteous haughty spirit!
I’m all for loving and caring for people even if they aren’t believers but if I do that to make me look good it’s all for naught.
True love is tough!! Jesus portrayed that!
As a “Pastor” I would think you knew about the Sovereign God of this Universe. The only true God!
If you ck Revelations the enemy has no power except that which God permits.
So Mr. Graham speaks of the Sovereign God! Because he is a Believer and KNOWS the scripture thats where He is coming from that God allowed Mr Trump to win. Now, I wondered why He didn’t allow any of the professing Christians who were candidates to win. I heard many of them give their testimony of their salvation experience. God has another plan and we must trust Him always when we don’t understand. I’m grateful Trump won! There are some things he could improve on but he is willing to listen to Pastors who love the Lord and want to protect the freedom to preach the Word! He is protecting Pastors who revere the Lord God Almighty. Who teach Truth! It would have been a travesty for America for men of God to be silenced and thats where we seemed to have been going. It bothers you that a homosexual was mistreated but does / did it raise the hair on your back to see the Mayor of a huge city making efforts to shut Pastors up who were preaching the Word because it offended!! Gods Word is offensive to the unbeliever!
God isn’t just a God of love that JUST exudes rose colored glasses type of love. Whether it’s judgment or loving the unlovely His action is ALL based from love. He alone knows the heart and while you made fun of Mr Grahams knowing Gods sovereignty, you put yourself on God’s throne and judged Mr Grahams heart. You seem to begrudge the rich and loathe your position of wealth in this life. Remember it’s ALL Gods money! So He KNOWS who to entrust all things to ! Whether money or the protector of the Gospel! Those of us who are Believers are wealthier than all the money we have and dont have. We are children of the King! Of we don’t like what we have been dealt then take it up with Him! If you don’t like people who have a lot take it up with Him!
I urge you to be a Pastor who face to face, not on the media where you can say anything, would sit down and try to listen and hear Mr Grahams heart! Maybe Mr Graham can even receive wisdom from a small town Pastor. I think he could and vice versa. Remember what Paul taught Timothy that he had to learn, know the Truth and carry the Truth of the gospel and not sway from it no matter his age. He had to be bold when it came to Truth no matter if it was to the elder or to young me, older women or whoever! Not arrogant, not self serving, but because of Christ who came for all sinners. Paul mentored Him and entrusted the true gospel to continue to all!
But remember in The Old Testament God didnt like the high places to remain…..He required them to tear them down and when they didn’t there were consequences to their choices. We must do the same! Deception is powerful and especially if you don’t know what you are up against! And if you try to do it on your own without the power of the Holy Spirit!
The High Places are within our hearts , those that go against the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. And we need to do all we can to continue to fight for that freedom. If God allowed a strong personality as Pres Trump has He will use it for His purpose! He is the One who turns the hearts of Kings and Rulers to perform His will and His purpose! He will most assuredly use big churches and small churches……but not the buildings but the people who ARE the Church!
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“Because he is a Believer and KNOWS the scripture thats where He is coming from that God allowed Mr Trump to win.” By this reasoning, it was also God’s plan for Barak Obama and Bill Clinton to win. However, I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume that you didn’t feel their presidencies were “God-approved”. I actually heard a pastor say that Clinton was the antichrist…and years later say that, while Obama wasn’t the antichrist, he was “ushering in” the antichrist (well, maybe he wasn’t too off-base on that one, in light of our current state of affairs….) I know it’s tempting and comforting to put the “God seal of approval” on a politician that agrees with our temporal political views, but that seems a bit like creating God in our image, instead of the other way around.
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Amen! This was so well thought out. I also heard a self righteous spirit speaking in that article.
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Finally, a believer in the sovereignty of our loving God!
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Amen!
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Amen….
Buy the way a true man of God will not be afraid of objection.
Thank you for blocking my comments !!! You just proved you are not for God but for yourself as I suggested… Again try to read to Bible one more time with open mind and heart….
There is still hope for you….
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Amen and amen
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What’s the matter? His version doesn’t allow you enough wiggle room to be a bigoted, judgmental prick? Sounds like his version is a lot closer to what Jesus would want than yours, apparently.
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where 2 or three are joined together.Jesus said, there I will be also.
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Thank you for your response, “A christian.” In my opinion, Peter is egotistical and quite condescending. And I’m sorry, but if the bakery owners refused to make the wedding cake for the gay couple, that is their right. Many businesses have signs on the door saying they have the right to refuse service to anyone, and for whatever reason. The Bible plainly says that homosexuality is an abomination. Period. My mother always said to beware of the wolf in sheep’s clothing. I think that’s what Peter is.
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I am glad that I can read and interpret the Bible for my self. I believe in what I read in the Bible. I live by the words I read in the Bible. I don’t need a church building. God hear me and answer my prayers. I am as close to God as I I need to be. God is good all of the time.
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Wonderful.Thanks for having the courage and articulation in your article.
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A christian, I think it would behoove you to read your bible again, especially all the things that Jesus said…and what beliefs were twisted?
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You apparently have no idea how a christian is supposed to live and act. Your comment is rude!
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I Agree 100% with you. Thank God Hillary’s not our president.
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You used Jesus as a tool of hate in that sentence .. Exactly what Pastor Peter is talking about.
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Did you even read the letter? There are none so blind as those who will not see………..
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Whaaat???*
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You’re insane. God would have voted fir Hillary warts and all. Nobody, but evil, heartless, corrupt, ignorant, racist, bigoted, fear – mongering people voted for Trump. Anyone claiming to be Christian who voted for Trump, has greatly lost their “Christian” way.
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Your comment does not belong here, it shows you have no clue what Christianity is.
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But, #26, Trump, who said he has NOTHING for which he needs to ask God’s forgiveness IS our president. Do you approve of Trump and his actions? If so, why?
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Amen!
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You saying that God would have voted for Trump? The philanderer, 2 Corinthians, draft-dodging pathological liar. How dare you? Comment at fedupwithdonaldtrump.com.
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Just made a copy of this for my Bible! This is true Christianity!
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LOL did you not read the same thing I read…lol. WOW!!!
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I’m sorry my comment was meant for Virginia Pickens.
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I believe I recall something about Jesus driving the money lenders and sacrifice merchants out of God’s temple. I think Jesus is nodding agreement with Pastor Peter’s Words, here. 🌈❤️
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As a Christian who’s struggling with even attending church right now precisely because of this faux-Christianity, thank you.
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Frank’s God and my God, Frank’s idea of church and my idea of church, and Frank’s idea of explemplifying Christ and my idea of exemplifying Christ could not be more dissimilar. Thank you for your words.
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Read the Bible, Frank’s telling it like it is. Your words are sounding like the Jews before they were captured by Nebechanezzer. They fought againts all that GOD asked of them, so they were punished.
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I loved this! I want to go to your small church but I think the rector of the small church we attend would miss us. Thank you for helping to bring Christianity and church going back to where it belongs and away from the crazy politics of the far right. Good luck.
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Wow oh wow, how I love thi!!!!! Now that “small church” pastor has got it 10000% right!!!! I really am in awe for this “true” pastor standing up for what really IS right and “true” Christianity……not the “mega church billionaire” Franklin Graham, who I feel has truly lost his way (nothing like his Dad, Billy Graham!). It makes me thankful that there still are “real” Christian pastors around…….thanks so much, Peter….God bless you….you’re truly a “breath of fresh air!”
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Excellent observation and explanation of christianity. These are my thoughts exactly, but you articulated them objectively, with biblical references. Our Savior would have been considered a radical in his time. It was his great love for the lost that turned many around from death to eternal life. What are we doing-drawing people to him or pushing them away? Mr Graham has much to,learn, he has become too political, not at all like his father whose main concern was to take the “good news” to the masses. God bless you and your ministry.
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And when they perceived that he was speaking of them , they sought to kill him . .
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Thank You for writing this! You feel the same way I do. I was raised in a Southern Baptist Church during the 1960s in Alabama. We had some great Sunday School teachers. http://www.limbaughlooper2016.com/i-thought-christians-were-supposed-to-honor-and-witness-for-christ.html
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Reblogged this on Pots, Pans and Proverbs.
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Peter, seems like you’re judging here! Since you seem to quote the Bible so much, you must know what it says about judging!
Since Franklin Graham has a platform in which he can use to reach so many, I believe God is using him. We need to hear this!
You seem somewhat jealous of how God uses Franklin.
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That you think jealousy was Peter’s motivation is an indictment of you, not him.
See what I did there?
You should still think it through, rather get trapped by schtick. Franklin has a platform because of his dad, not the validity of his teaching, which is often fearful and hateful.
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Amen.
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Agree, Candy.
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Candy read your Bible. Are you judging?Graham is off base supporting Trump and holding up for him in his vulgar talk Graham needs to be told what real Christians think about what he is preaching and teaching Peter hit the nail on the head!
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Candy, you are so right! Peter also twists Rev. Graham’s words and imputes thoughts and beliefs to Graham that the Rev. may or may not imbrace. Just like the fake news media, “if you can’t come up with something real, then just make something up.”
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agreed
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You believe God speaks through Franklin Graham and your support for this belief is that he has a large congregation. Hitler was also able “to reach so many”, so perhaps the fact that a lot of people listen to Graham does not mean “God is using him”. Do you have any other reasons for your belief that God is using Graham to send us a message? Do you believe Graham when he says God put Trump in the White House? Why?
You attack the author personally by calling him “jealous” rather than argue against the points he has made. I would like to know what you think about the content of his message. The author thinks it is hypocritical of Christians to support policies that go against Bible teachings such as taking care of the sick and the poor. So why do you believe that Christians should be able to support these policies? Peter says he does not feel that he is being persecuted as a Christian. Do you feel that you have been persecuted? How?
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Agreed. The language used was very judgemental. Pointing out only the faults and problems assigned to one individual is not helpful or Christian. We all know who you blame, WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO BRING MORE PEOPLE TO JESUS? This, this is all you got? God is LOVE.
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Jesus judged us by telling us to follow Him and not the hypocrits.
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Candy, did you not read the article and understand what it was saying? Just because someone has a “platform” doesn’t mean what they say is right i.e. Hitler, Mussolini, Kim Jong-un to name a few. Mr. Graham has become a harbinger of hate and ignorance.
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Good point…where there is envy, there is every wicked thing…I detect a root of bitterness in this pastor who is boasting in his own works and judgements or opinions. One should not think to highly of himself lest he be deceived. Just because you might not see beheading type persecutions here in America, there is much persecution of the spirits of all of them that desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus…not to mention sickness and death by spiritual means. A desire to live Godly brings persecution everytime we abandon compromise…no matter where you are.
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Reread the article. Please. I will pray that you take it for what it was meant and not a jealous judgement by the author.
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He’s teaching. Sometimes you have to try to show people the right path. You, on the other hand, are definitely judging. Do you think everyone with a platform is being used by God? I guess that would include the Kardashians, then.
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Actually, you are incorrect. We, as Christians are called to judge each other who are within the Church (the body of Christ), but not those who are outside of the Church (non-believers). Those are for God to judge. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13
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Maybe he doesn’t believe that “God” is using Franklin but that Franklin is using “God.”
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We are called to judge/be discerning. Peter is not judging Franks salvation but his discernment of the scriptures of which we are ALL to do.
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Your comment is funny!! Franklin Graham preachers judgment. This is what Peter is using the scriptures to point out to him.
The Bible is MAN’S interpretation of God’s word. ALL words can be interpreted in differently. That is why we have so many religions. This is exactly how the Lutheran church began. Some parishioners did not like how others were interpreting God’s word and her differently so they begin their own church the Lutheran Church
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I don’t believe for one minute that God is using Franklin to teach this hatred. Not sure what Bible you read, but it’s obviously not the same one that I read. As far as judging, please, Franklin is doing his own judging here, or are you too judgemental to see that?
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I feel that this SMART ALLECK “small church pastor has awfully large kahunas to talk to Franklin Graham that way! Such a lack of respect! With that hate in his heart, I doubt he’s leading many folks to Jesus! Franklin & his organization do more to minister to the basic needs of human souls in one day than most do in their entire lives!!! Get over yourself, li’l pastor!!
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I wonder why this man isn’t penning a letter to Tony Evans. Or Pope Francis.
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I wonder how you know he isn’t
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I think the problem is that people don’t understand the difference between judging and discernment You know the saying, “He has good judgment and is a discerning person?.
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If you listen to Franklin Graham’s words with ears of faith, you will hear that he is not being used by God, but by God’s opposite number, to spread hatred and venom. Franklin is not doing God’s work. He is doing Satan’s work. We do need to hear Graham’s words… so we can recognize evil when it is covered over by a thin veneer of Christianity. But we don’t need to heed Graham’s words and do what he suggests, unless you want to follow the Deceiver instead of Jesus.
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You are missing the point, Franklin is NOT preaching God’s word. His support of the Republicans and their actions goes against what the Bible teaches us. Pastor Peter was pointing out to Franklin that God tells us to love our neighbor, that does not mean just the occupants of the house next to you on your street. We are to care for the sick, needy, hungry and those less fortunate.
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He doesn’t sound like he’s judging at all, he’s asking how they can support a platform that is against, the sick, the poor the children, the elders. But, many who follow these TV evangelists don’t see the fleecing that is going on. In the Bible, God asks that the Levites only support him and his sanctuary. They are to live from the thiting or sacrifices brought to the temple, but not to make themselves prosper from working for God. Jesus asked the rich man to give up his wealth to follow him, but he couldn’t, I think the Bible tells us all what God expects, I don’t see any of the TV evangelists following those principals. God is not using Franklin to tell people to support DT, which means these people support passing laws that will hurt the most venerable. If you’re questioning what Peter is writing about, I can only suggest you read the Bible and take some Bible classes, it will help you to understand the Bible’s message.
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Candy, have you read Matthew 7 lately? Jesus instructed people to examine teachers and leaders to see whether they bore good or bad fruit. It makes sense to judge them, because if you follow, you’ll end up bearing the same fruit.
Franklin has a platform, like so many other rich men. That means God gave it to him? Look what he’s doing with his platform. It’s disgusting.
Have you heard what Jesus said about the Pharisees? That they travel half way around the world to win a convert and make that person twice as fit for Hell as they are?
God isn’t using Franklin. Trump is. But then Franklin is using him too. A real man of God would call him to repentance,and bring healing to his sin-sick soul.
But Franklin just encourages his lies and arrogance, because Trump has the power to give him what he wants.
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Yup…..quite judgmental, Pastor Pete.
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I agree with your assessment, Candy! I believe Peter’s open letter is sanctimonious, jealous, judging, self-righteous rhetoric. He needs to apologize and begin by having the decency to call Franklin by his name. I’m wondering why he didn’t call himself “Pete”!
Franklin Graham and Samaritan’s Purse have ministries world wide. Their Quick Response Team is usually first at the scene of disasters. God bless him and all the good work he does!
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Well said.. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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Bless you. It hurts me when this monster calls out the name of Christ to worship the rich and hate the poor.
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So, Candy, you appear to be jealous of Peter…and his very simple message. As for your god using Franklin to spiel his religious garbage of fear, loathing and more fear? Don’t think so. I don’t think Franklin has the slightest idea of what Jesus said, or cares. He is no more a christian than his hero, trump.
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You believe God speaks through Franklin Graham and your support for this belief is that he has a large congregation. Hitler was also able “to reach so many”, so perhaps the fact that a lot of people listen to Graham does not mean “God is using him”. Do you have any other reasons for your belief that God is using Graham to send us a message? Do you believe Graham when he says God put Trump in the White House? Why?
You attack the author personally by calling him “jealous” rather than argue against the points he has made. I would like to know what you think about the content of his message. The author thinks it is hypocritical of Christians to support policies that go against Bible teachings such as taking care of the sick and the poor. So why do you believe that Christians should be able to support these policies? Peter says he does not feel that he is being persecuted as a Christian. Do you feel that you have been persecuted? How?
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then sadly you didn’t understand what you read. Let him (or her) who has ears..hear.
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Amen
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Graham has caused extreme hurt to the LGBT community. I don’t think God is using him for that purpose.
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Excellent articulation cutting through the hype to get at the fundamentals. I’m not an American, but I don’t think Jesus was a Republican. Or a Democrat for that matter. It’s interesting how in America those seem to get intertwined. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself has always got to be the starting point. You could be the VInce Lombardi for the evangelical chaos! ‘Gentleman, this is a football.’
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What is your position as for as DAVIDS relationship with GOD? ?? Considering his past transgressions.
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Psalms 51… Forgive me… I have sinned… works every time.
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Dear Peter, Isn’t this plaint just as self-serving as you believe Mr. Graham to be? Where in your public chastisement can we find Grace, or reconciliation? It seems absent.
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I would guess that grace and reconciliation might happen when Franklin Graham responds to Pastor Peter’s blog post, ideally via direct contact instead of some canned email or a Facebook post.
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Well said.
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Blahhh
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Grace and reconciliation are just waiting for Franklin. He teaches right-wing politics and chases people away from the Lord. Franklin can have God’s grace whenever he starts teaching God’s Word and quits teaching politics.
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This is a wonderful letter. I see that at least one comment chided you for now forgiving Rev Graham and President Trump for things they did in the past. I’m also a small church pastor and I hope you’ll forgive me if I answer for you.
The idea of forgiveness is a powerful one and is one of the most important elements of Christian faith. That sometimes brings it into conflict into seeming conflict with the need to bear prophetic witness against evil in the world. When someone like Rev Graham or President Trump continues to do the same hateful and sinful things they have done in the past, without any admission that they have done anything wrong and with the clear intent of continuing to attack and hurt the same people. forgiveness is difficult. We can forgive them in the sense that we do not hold any hatred or vengeful thoughts against them. If, however, they will not confess their sin, assert that their fearful rhetoric, their hate-mongering, the false witness they bear against their neighbors, if they will not repent, if they will not change their ways, any broader kind of forgiveness becomes impossible. You cannot fully forgive someone who refuses to be forgiven.
I’m anxious that the kind of forgiveness so many Christians are asking for for Graham and Trump are not really forgiveness at all but a free pass to continue their destructive actions. It’s not true forgiveness when someone is proud of the terrible things they have done, and says they will continue doing them, and you say, that’s okay, go in peace, it’s all good. It’s just giving cover to hateful and destructive behavior.
In short, this letter isn’t unforgiving at all. It’s meant to help people who follow the angry, fearful rhetoric of leaders like Franklin Graham to see their error and return to following Christ instead with his ways of compassion, justice, and truthfulness.
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We must spend much time in our prayer closet for our leaders. They have weaknesses, they make mistakes, they may speak without first asking god for his plan of direction. It’s up to us to stand in faith and do what we can to get our country on the right path and fill our leaders with gods supernatural strength, knowledge and perseverance to do all they can to glorify god every step of the way. It starts with us.
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I too appreciate the truths in Peter’s Letter but would challenge your comment that forgiveness has to be reciprocal. Jesus said; Forgive your enemies. Do good to them who hate or despitefully use you.” That’s why it’s so hard-it isn’t always fair, but we have to d it anyway!
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Yes ~thank you for this eloquent response. I hope it is read by those who are confused about the difference
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So agree as well.
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I agree that unrepented sin is wrong, and I have concerns about Rev. Graham’s message, and of course President Trump causes all kinds concerns, however, if someone sincerely holds a belief that homosexuality is wrong and a sin (and there is some evidence in the Bible for that belief ), don’t the same rules apply? In other words, isn’t it unrepented sin to live such a lifestyle?
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Exceptionally well put.
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The pastor failed to mention that Jesus also said there is only one way to salvation and that is through Him. That was definitely something Jesus was concerned with, as a matter of fact, it was the whole reason for him being born in the first place. The pastor’s omission of that makes me question his suitability to lead a church.
As for the discrimination law. The fact is, it is only applied against Christians. Gay businesses can, and have, refused to make materials encouraging traditional marriage. A Muslim caterer would never be required to bake a ham for a client. The truth is, discrimination laws are being used solely against Christians.
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You, sir, are not a “Christian”. You are what is being called a “radicalized Christian,” no better or worse than a radicalized Muslim, or any other people that twist things to fit their way of looking at things, like you with the Bible. I’m not a big church goer and don’t know is I even believe in God. But what Peter wrote in his letter is what I learned in church school, bible classes and Sunday school. Grahams. “church” are after one thing: money. So spread your venom somewhere else sir. You are a racist and a bigot and that is all.
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“A Muslim caterer would never be required to bake a ham for a client.”
If a Muslim caterer has a business which specializes in baking hams and will happily bake one for absolutely anyone no matter their personal sins except for one particular sin they have singled out, they are legally guilty of discrimination.
The bakery is not being forced to do something against their religion, ie bake a cake when baking cakes is abhorrent to them. They are happy to bake cakes for weddings of people who may be adulterous, murderers, divorced, blasphemous, abusers, torture animals, embezzle, thieves, whatnot.
Pretty sure they don’t take stock of everyone’s sins. They just cherry pick gay people and hide behind religion.
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I’m not a lawyer, but I dont think your Muslim example is accurate. A Muslim shop that is strict Halal would not be required to bake a ham because they dont have ham on-hand, not because they are discriminating against a customer’s lifestyle or belief. In like manner, if *any* restaurant runs out of a dish (say scallops) they are not obligated to run out and immediately purchase more just because a patron wants to order it right now. If I go into a vegan store, they are no obligated to sell me beef, because they dont carry it. They *are* obligated to sell me lettuce even if they dont agree with my beliefs or personal lifestyle.
The point this pastor is making is that Christians are obligated to follow the law, or suffer the consequences. Those consequences are not “persecution”, it is a result of not following the law.
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Ok cite some references please
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Your assertion is that laws only discriminate against Christians? In a country where 17 states still have laws on the books criminalizing sex between two people of the same gender? In a country where law enforcement routinely profiles and entraps people who are Muslim, and people routinely kill and burn the places of worship of even non-muslims who “look like” muslims?
You are really desperate to be oppressed, aren’t you?
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The fact that 83 percent of the country is Christian renders your “only against Christians” claim hogwash. Read more things.
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If you bake wedding cakes, then if the client wants a cake that you have on your menus, then you bake a cake. If you cater roast beef, but not ham, you are not required to cater ham because it is not on the menu. Can you not see the difference here?
There may be a bakery that does not use, say, peanuts. You would not be able to order a cake with peanuts from that bakery.
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RD – I think the difference with a Muslim caterer and ham would be that a Muslim caterer does not use ham and would not have to work with materials he/she does not use. In the same way a vegetarian caterer could not be forced to make sirloin steaks for a wedding. Or if you go to a paint store that does not carry Benjamin Moore and demand BM paint – well you cannot do that either. Had the bakery been a vegan bakery and a gay couple demanded dairy in the cake- then the baker would not have to comply. But they can’t say no just because they do not like or agree with the way the customer lives her/his life. I am not aware of gay businesses have refused to make things for traditional male-female weddings but if so, then the heterosexual couple should have made a formal complaint. I do agree with you that the way to salvation is through Him. But how that works and the way all of that takes shape is His to understand and His alone. We can only do our best to live our own lives in what we understand as right with God – based on faith, prayer, Scriptural reading, reason and tradition — but as someone once said – the minute you think that God agrees with you then you know you have made Him in your image and not the other way around. In response to Franklin Graham sharing his vision of what living a Christian life looks like, which seems to include supporting Trump, Peter is sharing his (very different) view of how he understands the Gospel message. That view may not resonate with you. But it does with me. And I thank Peter for sharing it.
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Prove that a gay business has refused to make materials encouraging traditional marriage. Why does traditional marriage need encouraging?
and this business about muslim caterers not being required to bake a ham – you do realize that there is a difference in not offering a product to anyone, and not offering a product to specific people, right?
A muslim caterer simply doesn’t offer ham. To anyone. Its not a product they sell. They aren’t refusing because they don’t like the customer who is asking.
A wedding cake baker does offer wedding cakes It IS a product they sell, so they can’t pick and choose who they sell that product to. But they CAN choose to not sell wedding cakes to anyone.
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AMEN!
Peter conveniently omits that the Bible says that men
should not dress as women. ( I ‘m sure the opposite applies).
It also says that men should not lay with men (and vice versa), that it is
an abomination to the Lord.
Should we not honor what God says is sacred?
Peter is not honoring God by leaving out those truths and is misleading people by trying to be politically correct.
Revelations says “Do not leave out or add to this BOOK.”
Peter is misleading people by not telling the whole story.
God is not calling for us to hate anyone, but HE does make it clear
What is right and wrong.
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RD (#43) That is a complete mis-reading of Jesus’ statement “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” Maybe worldwide, Christians are the most persecuted religion. In the USA, they are the most favored. If you want to feel persecuted, go out and serve the world in Jesus’ name.
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I ask you please try to follow your own logic….you have an opinion that discrimination laws are solely used to discriminate against Christians and you try to support your opinion by using an example that a Muslim caterer would never be required to bake a ham for a client. Your example fails the test of logic because first of all the Muslim does not bake ham and the Christian baker does bake cakes. The client in the case of your Muslim caterer example could be anyone, but in the case of the Christian baker and his client, his client is gay and the reason for not baking a cake he would otherwise bake for any straight couple getting married is that in fact his client is gay. This is clearly discrimination under the law against someone because of their sexual orientation. Their is no discrimination against the client in your example with the ham…..the Muslim simply does not offer ham for sale. If he did offer ham for sale and refused to sell it to a gay person because that person was in fact gay, then the Muslim would also be in violation of a discrimination law, just like the Christian baker. May I ask why you used a Muslim in your example?
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No, they’re not. And wherever there is discrimination, no matter who practices it, it should be penalized and stamped out.
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I’ve never understood the premise of the “requiring Muslim (or Jewish) caterer to provide pork products” as a valid example of discrimination. A Muslim caterer most likely would not offer those products at all. Every case of denial of service based upon discrimination against gay couples has been that of denying the exact same products and services that the businesses have advertised and provided to any other customer that walks through the door. Your premise that “discrimination laws are being used solely against Christians” is a complete failure. The number of discrimination cases involving christians claiming religious belief as a defense is minuscule when examining the totality of discrimination cases brought before the courts.The majority of cases involve race and sex as grounds for discrimination, and I’ve seen none of those that have used religious belief as a defense.
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The law applies to everyone. Nobody is allowed to discriminates against folks just because they are gay. The folks who refused service to gay couples happened to also be Christians, but if an atheist, Jew, or Muslim refused to serve a person just because they were gay, they would also be in trouble. The fact that they were Christians had nothing to do with it.
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Try again. A gay printer isn’t discriminatory for not printing certain materials if he refuses all requests to print such materials. A Muslim caterer isn’t discriminatory for refusing to provide a product he doesn’t carry. But bakong wedding cakes for one group of legally married couples and not for a different group of legally married couples is discriminatory.
See how easy this is to understand when you apply logic?
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RD, your point about catering doesn’t make sense. A bakery makes cakes…but when the baker refuses service to some people, that’s discrimination.
However, a Muslim caterer probably doesn’t make ham for anyone. They are not picking and choosing, making ham for some and not for others. It’s not discrimination, they simply don’t provide that service. Incidentally, that baker probably wouldn’t make you a baked ham either…still not discrimination.
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You are speaking out of ignorance. Baking a cake would not bring ceremonial uncleanness to anyone, no matter for whom it was baked. But if an observant Muslim or an observant Jew were required to bake a ham, it would bring on ceremonial uncleanness. You should know more about a religion, before you try to use it as an example.
By the way, I would LOVE to see a real, factual, proven example of a gay baker refusing to bake a wedding cake for a straight couple. (I’m not talking about a cake with hate speech on it… I’m talking about a wedding cake.) I don’t think you can produce one from a reliable source. But you know, even if you did, that would not excuse a Christian from acting Christ-like. Do you think it would have been right for Jesus to have spat back into the face of those who tortured him at the crucifixion?
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You have confused the law of public accommodation RD. It is not some sort of conspiracy against Christians. The only way the Muslim would be in violation of the law is if he offers and sells hams to one group of people, but refuses to do so for another group of people. Same with the gay business. Did they sell materials encouraging traditional marriage for one group but not Christians? You see, when a baker sells wedding cakes, they must sell wedding cakes for ALL, not just straights, or blondes, or whites. THAT is the difference. Sorry you feel so oppressed just because society won’t allow you to discriminate against a group of people you don’t like. That in no way prevents you from going to the church of your choice or practicing your religion.
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I agree with you completely.
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You know? I get Sooo tired of folks trying to judge and dictate Jesus business to Him!!!! He told us not to judge, He told us that He has other sheep to feed that we know Nothing about!!! He told us that no man comes to the Father except thru Him! In other words, it’s His decision!!! We know very little about other people’s souls, nor when He decides to reveal Himself to another!!! It’s only our job to spread the Good News and leave the rest to Him!!!
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Yes! Thank you for this!!! It is pure truth!
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Amen
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Agree!
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Exactly, thank you!! I had trouble reading this article in its entirety. It is extremely condescending, and mostly biased on his own personal and emotional opinion. Calling Pastor Franklin, “Frank!” Really! How disrespectful! And then the gall to call Franklin “dramatic!” This small church Pastor is the one being dramatic. This man is twisting so many things around here and I feel he is on the attack. What kind of Christianity judges and speaks to others like this? This is unbelievable! Pastor Franklin does a world of good for so many across the globe, and he deserves a lot of respect in my book!!
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RD, can you cite a verifiable incident of a gay business refusing to make materials encouraging traditional marriage? And getting away with it?
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Sir, I would love being a member of your congregation! Your ideas and views of Jesus Christ and the love of God and how to serve Him are spot on! Thank you for stating so eloquently your views of Mr Graham and his calls to support a man who doesn’t have any Christian virtues that I can detect! You have reaffirmed my views of our Saviour! Thank you.
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RD, If a Muslim caterer does not offer ham to all of his clients as part of his business, then he isn’t discriminating. As for “gay bakers” refusing to make traditional wedding cakes, really? Proof is required.
Even as a non-christian, I would think by doing one’s best to obey all of Jesus’s requirements, believing in him, etc. qualifies as “finding salvation” through him. How else do you “find” salvation?
Christians have been privileged for so long that when you have to put up with a little equality, you cry and whine that you are being persecuted. Indeed, the entire christian religion, or at least a great deal of it, seems to be based on victimhood and persecution…y’all seem to spend a great deal of time on those, while also failing to remember what Jesus said…something about, above all love your neighbor as yourself.
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Once again, you have ears but can not hear!
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How does he not share same values? That boggles my mind anyone would say that as if they were god and could judge the heart of a man.. Franklin gram and his dad have been active evangelist when it comes to civil rights and are well respected when it come to fighting those issues and do to there platform I can guarantee they’ve done more then the person who wrote this letter or any pastor or evangelist in the world alive today especially when it comes to feeding the poor and getting fresh water to people who need it but most importantly he’s been the biggest impact on spreading the gospel to the world battling for souls for Jesus which again that’s what the lord said is most important.. Matter a fact he said don’t worry bout food or money but to feed off the word. Yes its important to help the less fortunate but its more important to make sure they get to know Jesus and experience salvation through him.. Franklin gram isn’t in the position he’s in because the devil put him there.. That would be furthest thing devil would want because millions and millions of people have accepted Jesus as there lord and savior because god gave the grams platform to reach the world.. Jesus said judge a man by his fruit and if you do that You can only see that Franklin has been blessed
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Yes, beautiful letter by Pastor Peter.
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I am not a Christian. This is what I wrote in sharing your letter on my Facebook page: I became a chaplain’s charge when I was 9 at a boarding school, and what I learned about Christianity came from attending several church services, attending bible studies, as well as having “Divinity” classes, over the next 5 years. My so-called religious experience did not prepare me well enough for the mega-church productions that I witnessed, which isn’t limited to the US.
Thank you for taking the time to compose this letter.
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Excellent letter Peter….thank goodness there are people like you who refuse to be brainwashed with this type of rubbish. Well done!
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“So an alleged preacher is fine with the State of Washington suing a Christian couple into the poor house because a gay couple refused to go find another baker” – no, the couple was sued because they refused to obey the law.
What if the next baker also refused to bake the cake? And the next? How many bakers should the gay couple be denied service by before you think it’s too many?
What if the baker had refused service because the couple was Jewish? Catholic? Wiccan? Atheist? Some other Protestant sect that the baker wasn’t a member of? Or a black or mixed couple? Or a couple with one or the other previously divorced? Or a released criminal? ALL of those people had sinned according to various interpretations of the bible. Maybe that baker should have each and every customer fill out a questionaire before service to make sure that they’re virtuous enough to be served by that baker.
Or maybe the baker should just treat everyone the same under the law and not let his or her prejudices influence his customers.
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Thank you!!!!
ONCE OUR RELIGION STARTS PLAYING POLITICS .
WE TURN ANOTHER PAGE …INTO REVULATIONS
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Peter,
May I call you Peter? You can call me Bill.
I do not have a fancy degree in Theology or the Bible but I do have a great love for my Savior Jesus Christ.
I have read your open letter to Rev Graham. Your satirical letter comes across as a bit bitter and better than you instead of genuine concern for what I can only assume you see as injustices. I may not agree with all your points but I could have accepted them and even supported your stance despite my disagreement were it not for a single point.
You used Bible verses to support all of your positions – save one. You suggested over and over that possibly Rev Graham and other mega churches had forgotten to consult the ultimate source on point after point you made. Yet sadly one of your main points – that concerning whether or not Donald Trump was placed in office by our Lord.
Well let me help you out with this one. You see in Romans (that is a Book in the New Testament of the Bible that you so eloquently quoted to support all of your other points) it says the following:
“Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”
Romans 13:1 NIV
http://bible.com/111/rom.13.1.niv
Now the “for there is NO authority EXCEPT that which GOD has established” part means that Mr. Trump was indeed placed into power by the very hands of God. Yes that means that all of the horrible tyrants over the centuries were also allowed their power by God.
Many will ask how or why?
Well some things are just not for man to know. Something’s happen to bring the lost to a position of having to face their sins and repent as well as to serve as an example to others that they might learn as well.
I don’t pretend to know the how’s and why’s to all of these questions. What I do know is this from that same book in the Bible – Romans:
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”
Romans 8:28 NIV
http://bible.com/111/rom.8.28.niv
Now I don’t know the answers to all your points but I do challenge you to reconsider your charges and accusations against Rev Graham.
I am not saying which way I fall on the charges you have leveled against the business that didn’t want to bake a cake celebrating what the Bible calls an abomination
““ ‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.”
Leviticus 18:22 NIV
http://bible.com/111/lev.18.22.niv
I’m not sure but I don’t think you are supposed to ignore the parts of scripture which you find displeasing – no matter the reason.
But we aren’t called to hate the sinner. Just the sin.
There are other scriptures that would support the business owner to not bake the cake if the motive for acting this way was for the right reason just as there is support for baking the cake as you suggest. This is a situation where there is not a single right answer. And as you so eloquently stated in your post this “offense” isn’t going to keep anyone out of Heaven or get them into Heaven. God knows our hearts and it is very dangerous to try and judge another mans heart. I’d be very careful treading on that thin ice.
The fact is if the gay couple was told by the business that they didn’t want to bake the cake then they should have walked away and found a different baker. Find a baker that believes as they did and then tell the entire world about them so everyone who believes as they do could support that business and help them flourish. Win – win – win.
Instead they want to make about themselves and get a politically charged situation thrust into the limelight and get their 10 seconds of fame trying to build support for a cause that our God detests. (God’s words – not mine. See Bible scripture from above in case you have forgotten)
This one of the scariest points from your post. Instead of truly supporting a common sense approach that allows all sides to act in a loving manner you want to jump on the bandwagon of destroying the very fiber of God and family that built this great nation and try to shame, humiliate, and guilt a God fearing man who has dedicated his life to serving God.
Does he have money and influence? Yes
Does he has more of these than you? Yes according to your account but if you believe that every soul is equally important to our savior then you have far more influence and importance in the lives of those you interact with every day that Rev Graham most likely will never meet. So I contend that power and influence is relative not absolute.
Instead of accusing Rev Graham as you have maybe you should perform some self reflection. You have come across as very jealous of Rev Grahams success and somehow feel yours is less. Maybe that isn’t the case. I don’t know you. It is the perception given by the words you have used and the omittance of keys scriptures that would disprove your arguing points.
I’m not going to quote the exact scripture here as you are the expert and by all accounts you read your Bible ( much more so than Rev Graham ) so this should be very familiar to you.
Jesus himself (our Savior by which is the only way to get into heaven) told a little story ( parable for you Bible experts) that said the following:
To those that little is giving – little is expected.
But to those of you that much is given – much is expected.
And until you prove faithful with little you will never have much.
Again. I don’t know you. I don’t know your heart. I only know the words and accusations you have presented in this open forum.
If this does nothing but cause you to reflect on your words, actions, and motives then this response was worth the time to write.
At the end of the day I believe it would be far more valuable and show many more people that Christians are above the name calling and public humiliation you have attempted to get your point across and sway people to your point of view. That is a dangerously slippery slope that Satan would love to have Christians perilously on all the time. I mean if we are fighting against each other then we can’t be fighting for the Kingdom.
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“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.” ~Susan B. Anthony
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What an awesome letter. Hit the nail right on the head. God bless you sir. Job well done!
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And a Big
😌 to that!!!
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Oh , my feelings exactly echoing the Bible as my grandmother taught me.
Thank you for your beautiful, truly Christian letter to a professed preacher who needs to understand the real meaning of being a Christian.
Franks’s father, Reversed Billy Graham is the one true evangelist in my lifetime. He would have been proud to call you his son and a true son of God.
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Dear Peter,
This is an excellent editorial. It points out that persecution of Christians in our world is very real and gave good examples of it. Great point. However, I feel compelled to whine about this excellent article.
I have one comment and disagree with two points (discussed below) but my overriding issue is your presentation. It’s the cynicism: “As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.)” Do you really think that man doesn’t read the bible? Is this necessary to make your point? When reading internet articles, this ‘cynicism’ is all the rage, but, in my opinion, an inappropriate distraction. Peter, I bet you are eloquent enough to make your points without it.
Comment:
If you are going to quote the bible there is no getting around the fact that in Leviticus 18:22 it says:
“No man is to have sexual relation with another man; God hates that” -The New Catholic Study Bible, St Jerome Edition 1985. In the new testament, Jesus is not quoted commenting on homosexuality. However, there are a few letters that maintain homosexuality is inappropriate (Romans 1:26, Corinthians 6:9).
As a child, I was taught that homosexuality was a sin (although I didn’t know what homosexuality was). I proceeded to mock homosexuality as was the accepted practice at that time. As an adult, it appears to me that people aren’t deciding to be homosexuals but following their ‘natural’ orientation. It also appears to be a measurable percentage of the population, so, why is this behavior inappropriate and why do we discriminate against them. I’m left handed. Fortunately for me, no one is discriminating against my kind (Ehud was left handed too, just sayin…)
Here is my ‘interpretation’ of Leviticus 18:22 (yes, a very dangerous practice).
Leviticus 18 is listing the practices of the Egyptians and Canaanites that the Israelites are not to follow. Leviticus 18 lists things ‘not to do’ including having sex with your relatives, homosexuality and bestiality. It also says: “Do not hand over any of your children to be used in the worship of the god Molech, because that would bring disgrace on the name of God.” I probably read Leviticus half a dozen time before questioning: “what do children have to do with the worship of the god Molech?” Why didn’t ‘The New Catholic Study Bible’ spell out what they were talking about here? The practice was to build a fire and toss your first-born child into it. That is the sacrifice to Molech. Who thought that was a good idea? Homosexuality and bestiality are ‘grouped in’ with the ‘practice’ of burning you child alive to make a molten image happy. Leviticus 19 also lists tattoos, piercings, cutting your hair into a ‘widows peak’ and wearing clothing of two kinds of materials as forbidden activities. I am suggesting that, perhaps, some of these ‘sins’ are worse than others.
I caution all those that hold up the bible and wave it at people. In Matthew 24 it speaks of an ‘awful horror’ then the Son of Man coming like the lightning which flashes across the whole sky from east to west …remember these things will happen before the people now living have all died. -I don’t believe that this ‘second coming’ has occurred yet, so, something appears to be wrong here. I recommend quoting chapter and verse -just not to use it as a stick.
Point 1: Attack on Christianity
You infer that you are safe and sound in American and no one is attacking you. I disagree. Atheist groups are working diligently to make sure members of a small church, such as yours, do not use public buildings for your activities. On Christmas eve, the police would forcibly remove the nativity scene you erect on the Court House lawn. Just try put up a wooden cross at a municipal building on Good Friday. When I was child the police department had their own nativity scene they would erect. Atheists have been unsuccessful in removing ‘In God we trust’ from our currency; but it’s coming.
Point 2: Your Rights
Health Care is your right? Really? I don’t mean to be cynical here but what else are you owed? Health care cost money. Someone must pay for this. Whose money are you entitled to? The government is not some entity that owes you things -we are the government. I find this line of thinking disturbing. In my opinion, you are way out in left field on this point.
Ed
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“Atheist groups are working diligently to make sure members of a small church, such as yours, do not use public buildings for your activities.”
You appear to be lying about atheists. Do you have an actual example?
“On Christmas eve, the police would forcibly remove the nativity scene you erect on the Court House lawn.”
If it was put up without permission, of course it would be taken down. If the courthouse only allows Christians to put up displays, the courthouse would be sued, and lose.
“Just try put up a wooden cross at a municipal building on Good Friday.”
Without permission again? Do you think Christians have some special right to just erect whatever they like on public property? Do you think everyone can (or should) be able to put up whatever they like on public property?
“When I was child the police department had their own nativity scene they would erect.”
It isn’t a Christian police department — private individuals have religious rights, but not government entities like police departments.
“Atheists have been unsuccessful in removing ‘In God we trust’ from our currency; but it’s coming.”
And that would make currency neutral, like it should be. Would you object to “allahu ackbar” on currency? That’s only “god is greatest” in Arabic, so it’s just as neutral as “in god we trust”.
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Thank you, Merlyn, for calm and rational responses to the silliness.
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Imporant things to address. Frank not perfect. Peter not perfect. Trump not perfect. Christian bakers not perfect. Same sex couple not perfect. All issues addressed are temporal. Heaven & hell eternal. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through Me.” Address the issues of life. Then the “issues” of life. All of our wrongs (sins)have been paid for by Christ Jesus or wiii be paid for by us in hell.
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Sir….Sorry I am having a hard time calling you a pastor.
I hope you can read the Bible one more time with an open mind and heart and maybe you will find this clip “Persecution of Christians in United State” !!? Yes in USA….
As a pastor, all you need to do is to impress the Lord Jesus Christ and he will bless your community …. You don’t need to impress everybody else to sound like a cool priest….
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/16/school-offering-to-pray-for-colleague-is-unacceptable.html
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Actually Jesus did talk to a woman about how many times she had been married, referring to her sin. Also Jesus commanded that people repent or they would perish, and also told people whom he had healed to “sin no more”. The Apostle Peter whom you refer to also said that persecution would come for preaching certain doctrines which we are commanded to do. Persecution always begins with “harmless” talk against those who preach the truth but eventually becomes other types of persecution including physical. Please get your facts straight especially in reference to what the Bible says.
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It’s one thing for sure if Hillary would have gotten to the White House we wouldn’t have a Christ there.
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Very poorly veiled political commentary disguised as a theological reprimand Peter. Perhaps you should Read your Bible closer and grow theologically so that you might better obscure your sociological agenda in your pastoral lectures. You cherry pick parts of scripture to promote your social preferences. Perhaps you should interpret scripture with scripture as the Lord teaches to promote the truth in God’s word. Of course all of this is contingent on your acknowledgment that the the Bible is the inerrant word of God, which I doubt you will. Minus that proclamation, any reference you have to the scriptures is irrelevant. If it’s not all true than it is all a worthless and unreliable source. But I’m sure you’ve achieved your objective. You’ve provided banter for the liberals in our land to say “yeah man. Jesus is peace and love and socialized everything.”
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I am grateful that there are Christian leaders like this “small church pastor” who are still spreading the truth—that Jesus encouraged us to be loving and accepting of our fellow man, not judgmental and cruel. He is courageous to speak against injustice, knowing that he would be criticized by some. Surely, injustice, or perhaps we might call it the “work of Satan,” often insidiously inserts itself into the places we most trust, such as the Church. It may be spoken by the most revered celebrities among us. It is wise to keep reminding ourselves to resist hatred, regardless of who tries to validate it.
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Dear Peter,
You call for the coverage of insurance to be a right? Please provide the verse in the Bible (You know? The one you referred to numerous times in your letter!) where it states that the government should determine who I should help? Of the money put in your offering plate on Sunday how much of that goes to your salary and how much goes to cover medical expenses of your local community?
Oh, your just a small church that doesn’t have the funds to feed, clothe, house and provide medical coverage for everyone in your town that needs it?!? (Really, I know a lot of hard working people that are having the same problem!!!!!!)
Then get off your condisending high horse and spend your time sharing Gods word, teaching and bringing lost souls to know His love.
Finally, it’s puzzling to see you’re so quick to to pass judgement on others for things that happened in their past. So I must ask. Do you only invite Christians into your Church? Or are you a shepherd trying to bring His lost lambs back to Him. Because according to your letter, once a heathen always a heathen.
Pitiful.
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Any Christian concerned about their religious freedom is welcome to speak with my Buddhist wife, who is a descendant of an Upper Mattaponi tribe member. As a follower of Jesus, I’m just as concerned about the hell that “Christians” put others through on earth as I am about the “hell” that those “Christians” claim to be warning others about.
The Kingdom of Heaven is near.
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I haven’t got a religious bone in my body, but Peter, you are my new hero.
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Hi Peter, Jan here. Thanks for a well-written, heartfelt letter — I can see where others may have felt it was a tad-bit condescending, but given the current world situation, I certainly understand the tone in which it was delivered. Please let the recipient (and others with a like mind) read it, listen to the message, and take it to heart. Our nation needs more Peters, and less Franks. Thank you.
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Hi Pastor Olsen. I was intrigued enough by your comments that I checked out your church’s website to see if “Peter” in this note had a last name, and further, if “Pastor Olsen” at the church’s website has the first name Peter. (You could easily eliminate this authenticity-check.)
I’m a Christian. I go to a Bible church that studies the timeless, Divinely inspired Word.
I also live in a suburb of Portland, OR.
First I want to say that I agree with you that for-profit business people have to serve the public. Everyone. I think Sweet Cakes made a bad decision to make an issue of their disagreement with the lifestyle of the couple for whom they refused to bake the wedding cake. I’m sure Melissa of Sweet Cakes has unwittingly made wedding cakes for adulterers, pedophiles and thieves. At the very least she knows she has made wedding cakes for liars and persons with hate in their hearts–we’re all sinners–so yes, I believe the business should have been slapped with a fine.
However, you must know that Portland activists are committed to their witch hunts, and they will not stop their relentless ruination of persons who won’t embrace their attempts to delegitimize Christian values through legislation. You do know that, don’t you?
‘Persecution’ is the strongest word! ‘Harassment’ doesn’t come close to expressing the same meaning. But since stoning people for their religious beliefs is illegal in America, the moral relativists have to aim for legal murder: shuttering a family business, wiping out a family’s savings through court costs and judgments, publicly ridiculing the family’s reputation in the press, ending a cake artist’s creative pursuits in the public marketplace. Perhaps Christians should expect those actions from people who don’t worship the Triune God and people who embrace the world, but is it wrong to expect anti-Christian activists to be reasonable toward people who disagree with their values, when that’s clearly what one of THEIR messages is– “Don’t mistreat us”?
If you go to the website for Gateways to Better Education you will see articles about school districts that are using their precious financial resources to either fight OR embrace the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s interference with public schools’ programs across the nation. To me, the FFRF is certainly subversive, and willing to kill students’ learning opportunities and redistribute education dollars to kill any identification of God even if it they aren’t murdering Christian students and teachers.
Here in Oregon, Judge Vance Day has had to defend himself against trumped-up ethics charges–all the way to the Supreme Court–since he angered the political Left by his choice to recuse himself from performing marriages (a non-judicial task). He was targeted because he publicly declined to officiate same-sex marriages. He can’t be removed from the bench because he’s opted out of a non-required task, so charges were manufactured to destroy him–he’s been targeted because of his beliefs–by people who think it’s OK to focus his finances and energies and health to defend his choice to follow God’s Word.
Maybe that’s the lesson here. Evangelism takes many forms, and our way is not always God’s way for us. Jesus said the world would hate us and taking up His cross would be hard; we must lose our lives to have Life. But, Pastor Olsen, I think you must acknowledge that Christian believers are being targeted in America by non-believers and by church-goers who don’t know Christ to submit to a secular, sometimes vile, agenda–or suffer in a first-world way.
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I am an atheist and heartily approve of your letter. As long as we have a separation of church and state and as long as religious groups are peace-loving and law-abiding, fine!
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“Mother Emmanuel church in Charlotte” This tragedy occurred in Charleston, SC…
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Thank you for this! Very well written!
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Thank you so much for saying this. America is made up of multiple religions all worthy of protection
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actually rd, a muslim person would not be required by law to include ham in their menu, and since it isnt’ something on their menu, they wouldn’t be required by law to serve it to you. its like going to burger king and demanding a big mac, wheres your common sense? also, the discrimination law is applied to everyone – not just christians. in fact, the world does not revolve around you guys – you know the whole discrimination thing doesn’t even apply to just religion? businesses serving the public can’t discriminate against anyone – no matter their color, creed or gender, or their abilities for that matter. So no, the discrimination law is not just applied to you. If gay businesses are out there discriminatiing against christians, feel free to cite your source. otherwise, I suggest you go read up on your new testament, learn some more about Jesus’ life and the early christians lives, maybe see what real persecution is.
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Sarcasm isn’t a holy attitude. Making rude, disrespectful remarks are just as obnoxious lude remarks. Remove the speck in your own eye before attempting to remove the log out of someones’ elses eyes. That’s Bible too.
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Pastor Peter…judge not lest ye be judged. Thats in the Bible as well. You were extremely condescending in your sermon which tells me you are part of the problem. That certainly does not make things better!
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The fact that “modern” thought accepts gay marriage and gay relationships does not change the Word of God as preserved in the scriptures.
1 Timothy 4New Life Version (NLV)
False Teaching in the Last Days
4 The Holy Spirit tells us in plain words that in the last days some people will turn away from the faith. They will listen to what is said about spirits and follow the teaching about demons. 2 Those who teach this tell it as the truth when they know it is a lie. They do it so much that their own hearts no longer say it is wrong. 3 They will say, “Do not get married. Do not eat some kinds of food.” But God gave these things to Christians who know the truth.
1 Timothy 4New Life Version (NLV)
False Teaching in the Last Days
4 The Holy Spirit tells us in plain words that in the last days some people will turn away from the faith. They will listen to what is said about spirits and follow the teaching about demons. 2 Those who teach this tell it as the truth when they know it is a lie. They do it so much that their own hearts no longer say it is wrong. 3 They will say, “Do not get married. Do not eat some kinds of food.” But God gave these things to Christians who know the truth.
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Thank you so much for writing this letter. Millions of us have been on your bandwagon for a long, long time and I hope Frank read at least some of your letter.
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I have long been estranged from the church for the exact reasons you stated. My last contact with the church I had a Deacon tell me my marriage was an abomination as I was married in a civil ceremony. He then proceeded to make sexual innuendos and hit on me. I am so happy to know that there are true people of faith who do not distort the scriptures for their own prejudice but who know that the only important thing is how we treat each other. Thank you for renewing my faith in humanity.
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It is perfectly OK for Christians to disagree on issues. We’re humans. We’re going to have differing views and perspectives on issues.
But, as a preacher, Pete, you should be well aware of scripture that teaches we should always be seeking to edify our fellow believers and the church as a whole. Instead of shepherding your flock and leading by example, you chose to publicly post an arrogant, disrespectful diatribe against a fellow believer. Shame on you.
On top of that, you posted some outright falsifications of what the Bible teaches.
I can show you where God says homosexuality is an abomination and, as believers, we are to flee from sin, not support it. Yet you seem to think it’s wrong for Christians to stand up for their beliefs if those beliefs go against man’s laws. I’m pretty sure that’s not in the Bible.
You said that God’s sole concern at the last judgment is “how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us”. Please show where you found this, because the Bible I’ve been reading all my life says that God’s concern at the last judgment is whether or not we accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior.
You attack “Frank” by saying you don’t see anywhere in the Bible where God freaks out about whether someone refused to bake a cake for someone else. But in the prior sentences, you sarcastically proclaimed that “God doesn’t give a flying fruitcake if we deprive twenty-million people, most of them poor, of access to health care. Nor is God particularly concerned about how men treat women in the workplace, how people of color are treated in the real estate market, how the hungry and homeless are cared for (or not)…” Yet I can’t find anything in the Bible to support your apparent view that God really does care about government-mandated and controlled healthcare, government regulations in the workplace, societal definitions of racism, or the government taking care of the “hungry and homeless”. I can see, though, where believers are instructed to love our neighbors as ourselves and to care for the poor and needy (most of which, unfortunately, Christianity as a whole is failing at miserably!).
Are you sticking to the Scriptures, Pete, or are you compromising to society’s standards out of fear of being ostracized?
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Reblogged this on The Rejoicing Soul and commented:
Well said….Amen!
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Reblogged this on The Here and the Hereafter and commented:
I absolutely agree!
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Everything but one item is well supported. Franklin Graham is NOT a pastor. He was a business major in college. He did not attend seminary or earn a degree in ministry or divinity. He is using religion as currency.
I’d like to add another offense to his record. The United States is a nation of many religions and no religion, where the government is neutral–neither for or against any faith or denomination or religion–or lack of one. Yet in the Chump inauguration, Paula White and Franklin Graham had to be in-your-face about praying “in Jesus’ name” at the end. If you know the back story, it was a slap at the “Kenyan Muslim” President Obama as he exited the government. This is their right of free speech, but is Jesus so arrogant or insecure that he demands his name be appended as a magical talisman at the end of a request? Would Jesus appreciate the veiled insult? A simple “thank you” or “amen” would have served very well to conclude a public prayer, but nooooooo.
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Thank you. As a hospital chaplain and pastor of a small but thriving community church, your words expressed so well my feelings about the current religious rhetoric in our country.
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More Christianity-bashing. Rev. Graham is absolutely correct about our liberals tearing down our religious freedoms. Some folks, like Rev. Peter, just can’t see the forest for the trees. God Bless America!
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He’s not bashing Christ, he’s pointing out some very un-Christlike behavior in His followers with very sound Biblical arguements!
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You mean he is judging Rev. Graham. And his accusations are, at best, simply inaccurate.
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According to you, Mal, he is inaccurate. But you are not the authority, even though you are coming off like one this afternoon. Pete knows and serves the same God you do; perhaps you should consider that you may not have all the right answers, that Pete may in fact have some of them.
Renember, Mal, Pete is using as his guide the same Bible that you are using. I hope you don’t presume to say that your biblical interpretation is more accurate than Pete’s, do you?
A little humility is a wonderful thing.
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First of all, it is Mel, not Mal. But that is not important since this is not about me. I’ve been called much worse, 🙂 .
Nor have I said that my interpretation of the Bible is better than anyone else’s. I’ve basically just quoted or paraphrased verses from the Bible. And to date, no one has challenged my exegesis. The author of this blog (and certainly anyone else) is quite free to do so. To date he has not. But to say that my interpretation of Scripture is incorrect without explaining why benefits no one.
What I did say is that Rev Graham has put into practice the teachings from Matthew 25 more than some of those who are throwing rhetorical stones at him on this blog. And I do know that Rev Graham is not guilty of some of the things he is being accused of — especially of ignoring the instructions of Matthew 25. It is important to base our views on actual facts, not on inaccurate and false accusations. That has nothing to do with Biblical interpretation. It is a matter of of the truth.
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Thank you Pastor for restoring my belief, I stopped going to church long ago because it became a place of intolerance – perhaps if I could find a church like yours I would step back in.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, and God, or Buddha, or any other name of a supposed supreme being, bless you a thousand fold for so eloquently saying what so many of want to say but can’t put into words!! I’m a born, and raised, “Christian,” who is fed up with organized religion on all fronts! I have a brother, who is a long-time practicing Buddhist, who makes it hard to embrace his practice for much the same reasons I despise Franklin and his ilk! Such unfathomable arrogance must surely be frowned upon by any father, never mind a heavenly one! Again, may you be blessed beyond belief as you walk your walk, and talk your talk!
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Thank you for putting pen to paper–this is one of the best things I’ve read in a long time. When people like Franklin Graham say things that conflict with my core beliefs and values, I’m encouraged to discover that there are those like yourself who can articulate what many of us were raised to believe and still believe.
One small quibble: the church massacre you refer to was in Charleston, not Charlotte.
Back in January I tried to express my own views about the evangelical man-crush on Donald Trump and, more than that, how this strange phenomenon has brought me back to my own (non fundamentalist) Baptist roots. Here’s the link, in case you’d like to compare notes: http://www.workwellbewell.com/things-that-are-evil/evangelical-christians-you-flunked-your-own-litmus-test-a-letter-to-my-conservative-christian-friends/
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Thank you for your perspective–it sums up many of my feelings on the religious right.
One small correction: Mother Emmanuel is in Charleston, not Charlotte.
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OMG! WHAT A WONDERFULLY AFFIRMING AND BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN LETTER.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING IT! AND JUST TAKING THE TIME TO WRITE IT. MAY I SAY THAT YOU PUT INTO WORD WHAT MANY FEEL AND WISH TO EXPRESS AS CLEARLY AS YOU HAVE DONE HERE.
YOUR CONGREGATION IS VERY BLESSED TO HAVE YOU AS A SPIRITUAL LEADER.
I DON’T KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS THE WARMTH AND LOVE THAT YOUR LETTER BROUGHT TO MY SOUL AS I READ IT.
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I don’t believe this “Pastor Peter” is a
Pastor at all. He’s spewing too much
hatred and bias of his own. I grew up in the church & have never heard any Pastor talk like this. I believe this is somebody’s rant.
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About most thoughtful thing i have read in awhile. Years ago before I lost faith in big box “religion” I attended several Billy Graham “meetings”. The one thing I liked was his ability to “inspire” good thoughts…not focus on hate mongering and generating revenue. What happened to his son I don’t know…but he certainly doesn’t “preach the gospels” like Daddy did. Very sad “rendition” now.
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Beautifully stated!
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Thank you, sir, for a well written piece — I find myself trying to defend the idea of religion to people who only see the behavior of people who call themselves Christians but seem not to be much interested in following His teachings… henceforth I’ll just refer them here for clarification! Am sharing this far and wide… Peace.
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Would I be correct in assuming that “Peter” is Pastor Olsen? I like what he has to say about HIS Christianity not being right wing , or exclusionary, or ANY kind of “anti” zealotry, but rather absolutely inclusive, and welcoming. I’m not organized religious at all, and rather agnostic, but I learned long ago to treat everybody equally, and with respect, until they prove they don’t deserve either. Gender / sexual preference or identity / faith / nationality / language , and a myriad of ‘not me’ differences don’t automatically engender suspicion and prejudice. I’m not that frightened of everyone else in the world.
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Have you heard of Samaritan’s Purse and how they help everyone around the world. Franklin
Graham leads this wonderful Christian organization. Thank you, Rev. Graham. Rosalie Nelson
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Love this- I agree whole heartedly. I grew up in a small minded church. According to my Sunday school teaching, depression was a punishment for sin and women should be completely subservient to men. Thankfully I found an open-minded church in college and kept my faith.
Small edit- Mother Emmanuel is in Charleston, SC.
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Bless you, Pastor Peter! THIS is what being a Christian is all about – Loving ALL – Helping ALL – Judging NONE. There is no room for hate. Love and Light to you, sir…
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While I agree that the love and compassion of Christ is not evident in the mega-churches of today, I certainly did not see love, kindness or Christ-like virtue in this sarcastic piece. If he has an issue with Franklin Graham he should have addressed it privately, not stood out in the cyber street corner to declare his superior piety.
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Well said ! Thanks for standing up for the truth.
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I respectfully disagree. I believe it is important for people to hear the message he presents. There is nothing unchristian about disagreement or pointing out how another person could be more effective in winning souls for the lord. For years I have believed that men like Graham do much more harm to the cause. Many many people have turned away from Christianity because pompous individuals such as Graham are so self absorbed and unlike the true Jesus Christ. It is difficult to tell with men like this if their main purpose is to collect souls for Christ or dollars for their bank accounts.
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You certainly have the right to disagree with me. Unfortunately, the bakers were not granted that same right to disagree with having to participate in an event which violated their Christian convictions. I respect your right to disagree with me. Why can’t we allow the bakers the same right?
You state that “for years you have believed that men like Rev. Graham do much more harm to the cause. Many many people have turned away from Christianity because pompous individuals such as Graham are so self absorbed and unlike the true Jesus Christ.”
Now think about what you just said! You have accused Graham of being pompous and unlike Christ. Of course, I would disagree with you. Many many people have come to know Jesus as their personal Savior all over the world through the ministry of Rev Graham. Jesus stood up for those who are persecuted, as Rev. Graham has done, (not only for these bakers who have been given ruinous fines, but for people all over the world suffering serious persecution). Jesus stood for the truth, even when it was unpopular to do so. Similarly, Rev. Graham has defended the sanctity of marriage (as defined by Christ, not the New York Times), which has brought him such a barrage of hate filled messages and slander. Christ also told us to help the poor, the needy, the sick, the hungry, the thirsty, the stranger, and all who are needy. Rev. Graham has done that. I have worked with him and his organization in some of the world’s worst hell holes where he has done more to obey Christ’s Matt 25 injunction than most Christians could ever imagine.
For sure Rev Graham, like you and me, is not perfect. He may have his faults. But when a brother or sister in Christ has a fault which we might believe is serious, the correct thing to do (according to Matthew 18) is to go to that person in private, in a spirit of meekness and humility, and try to settle the dispute amicably. If that doesn’t work, take someone with you who is mutually trusted. Only then, when that doesn’t work, should the dispute be brought to the Church and then out into the open. This is not what this pastor “Peter” did. What has happened here, is that Rev Graham has been falsely maligned and the name of Christ dragged through the mud! This is not the way Christians should air their grievances against one another.
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Your sarcasm is duly noted. Also, you demean Franklin Graham by referring to him as “Frank”.
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It is so good to hear a true Christian! You go Peter!
Thank you for being honest and broad minded.
True Christians like yourself is hard to find.
Continue to do good work.
I am sure God and Jesus Christ will bless you abundantly.
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Hurrah!! Hurrah!! Thank you this response!foir
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FRANK FYI, YOU ARE NOT !, JESUS CHRIST THE ONE WHO DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD…SO GET BACK IN YOUR LANE.
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The Bible says “go” to the person if you have something against someone. Why would Pete post something like this? He should first of all go to the person or at least try and make contact with Franklin, then if that isn’t successful take someone with him. No exceptions.
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Being of the Hebrew persuasion (“Who persuaded us?”-Mel Brooks), I think this is a great letter. However, if you could edit it to place Mother Emanuel in Charleston and correct the spelling, that would be appreciated by those of us in Charleston.
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Great article! It has a glaring factual error, though. Mother Emanuel is in Charleston, not Charlotte.
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Pastor Peter has encapsulated the essence of the discussion between those in power and the powerless. Franklin Graham’s desire is to appeal to someone like Donald Trump and his misogynistic and homophobic base in order to increase his own influence in government and insure his tax exempt status remains untouched, thereby protecting his income. His comments put him in the same category as con men like Joel Steen and Creflo Dollar, whose only intention is to extract as much money as possible from those looking for real comfort and inspiration in religion. Pastor Peter calls Graham out for his hypocrisy and recommends that he should read the Bible and act with more humility and humanity. I agree.
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Bravo! Frank is the SOLE (soul, get it) that will never set foot in a church (the exception being weddings and funerals) again. Good luck on that unifying thing, you’re doing a crackerjack job.
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I love this so much
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No fan of Mr. Trump BUT……..Would Jesus also tell us to pray for our leaders as opposed to despising them? Belittling them? Is respecting our leaders also addressed in the scripture? Maybe what we need in our lives is a little more balance? OR maybe we need more Lewis Grizzard! I recall Grizzard making fun of the clergyman’s role saying the job is easy, “you have a big ol book to go by. ” Maybe this religious stuff really isn’t all that easy.
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This here is pure gold. Thank you for your thoughtful insights, for your steadfast beliefs and practices against discrimination, and standing firm on what is the most important part of any belief system, and that is Love.
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Jesus said PEOPLE (the Church) should take care of others, NOT Governments, our expectation should not be that Government should meet our every need, then they become a source of Pagan worship. Nice Try, Pastor !
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Stopped reading once I hit the snarky “Apostle Peter – ever heard of him?” comment. A Christian pastor should do better. His agenda is not truly expressing honest disagreement. It’s being sarcastic and clever despite his initial, folksy “just between us pastors” comment. Samaritan’s Purse does a tremendous amount of good work in this world. This pastor needs to check his own heart.
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Right on point. I hope Mr. Graham reads this.
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What hateful sarcasm void of understanding.
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I agree with everything you said,Peter,but you said that God is concerned if we feed the hungry,treat everyone fairly.I know that God cares for all that but I think His main concern is for the salvation of our souls.He came into the world as man to be the ultimate sacrifice to redeem us from our sins.a person can feed the hungry,treat others fairly,take care of the homeless but without salvation all these things mean nothing.we will do these because of a change heart,out of gratefulness for His love and sacrifice for us but the most important job of us a followers of Christ is to spread the good news of the Gospel and then all the other stuff will fall into place!
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Peter, ( may I call you Pete?) There’s a reason why you only have 30 people at your church on a good Sunday. You have a critical spirit and it can be contagious in your church. Your letter is full of bitterness. And For a “pastor” to criticize and condemn and use sarcastic jabs and backhanded compliments against another Pastor makes me wonder what team you’re on. Romans 14:4 ” who are you to pass Judgment on the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Did you make this letter public?! Add narcissistic to your list of issues.
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2 Timothy 3:16-17King James Version (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
AMEN.
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The shallowness of this makes me see just how much trouble the American Church is in. Jesus love is not cake baking kindness but instead blood bought sacrifice to atone for sin. It is a battle. Having been on mission in several countries including the middle east I can promise you we better push back against anything that threatens to erode the fact that we are a Christian nation. Give an inch they will take a mile, they already have. They want to swallow us up and are already setting up their territories within our US territory. Many who take a message other than Christ are already in the White House. Jesus was very clear to the Pharisee’s who watered down, no soft soaping on His part, He told it like it is. I salute Rev. Graham who sees the big picture and I challenge pete (I can call you that can’t I) to go into all the world to really see. I am sad pete is not supportive of Rev, Graham and others who are doing very hard and correct work. Shame. It’s time for us to put on our big boy pants. This is not for the simple minded who think God’s call is to mushy love.
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“Jesus wept.” John 11:35
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You got that right, Frank. Christian high school full of snobs and self-righteous teachers and tons of acts of hierarchy! So sick of so called “Christians” who think they are so above the rest of us. Both of my parents preached the Gospel back in the day…but for me, haven’t entered a church door for decades.
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Consider this Frank.
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Cafeteria Christian who does not get it. We are supposed to be in the world not of the world. The entire point of the First Amendment was to prevent the creation of rules that people of conscious can’t follow. Graham is exactly, and your letter makes it clear to me even as a member of the laity you have no business behind a pulpit of any Church claiming to be ‘Christian’
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I guess Pete, that if a poor soul came to your church office in need of money for food, and you have him money, would you allow the poor fellow to use the gift to buy beer or crack? I’m guessing you have some type of screening process in place to stop that kind of thing. So why can’t the cake baker decide?
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WHOA there! I didn’t read past the second paragraph because of the lie. So this writer immediately lost all credibility. Those bakers, and also florists, did not refuse to bake a cake for a SAME-SEX COUPLE. They refused to be part of a SAME-SEX MARRIAGE, which is expressly forbidden by their faith. Huge difference! There was NO hate involved! And, the bakers/florists were not just fined, but usually driven completely out of business! So, how charitable were those same-sex couples who sued? They could have found another baker/florist who was not practicing their faith. I’m no fan of the younger Rev. Graham at all, but let’s get the facts straight.
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I see quotes of a lot of people except, Jesus Himself.
When we introduce people to their Savior and let them receive His baptism we are placing them squarely where we are supposed to. If the Holy Spirit can’t lead them correctly then what makes us think we can?
If I may, I’d like to offer this;
“This will be a little preachy”
I hope this doesn’t offend anyone. I received it from a Friend. It was given freely in love and freely It’s given in love.
The “essence” of the Gospel-with no leavening.
I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people. But, the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Matthew 12:31
Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matthew 12:32
I baptize you with water for repentance. He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 3:11
Whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10:38
I say, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet, the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11:11
Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.
Mark 3:29
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But, the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
Luke 12:10
If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Matthew 16:24
All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Go, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Teach them to observe all that I have commanded you. And listen! I’m watching you- always; till the end of time.
Matthew 28:18 -20
I have baptized you with water. But, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
Mark 1:8
If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Mark 8:34
I baptize you with water… He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:16
If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
Luke 9:23
Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:27
I myself did not know him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, “He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit”.
John 1:33
The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 14:26
John baptized with water. But you, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit – not many days from now.
Acts 1:5
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. Whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16
This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:28
This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.
Mark 14:24
This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:20
This cup is the new covenant in My blood.
1Co 11:25
The Covenantal Words are The Words of The LORD Jesus Christ.
His Blood
His Death
His Resurrection
His Story
His Rule
His Kingdom
His Words
All words other the Words from the bible are the stories by, and of, people who lived their lives to hold true to This Covenant.
Though they are inspired by the Holy Spirit – they are not addenda to the Covenant.
If you hold true to His Covenant you will have a story also and, it too will be inspired by the Holy Spirit. However, your story does not become part of the Covenant terms either.
Only the Words from the Mouth of God, The Word Himself, are binding Covenant Words.
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him. The Word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
John 12:48
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and these scriptures point straight to Me, yet you refuse to come to Me that you may have life.
John 5:39 & 40
Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.
Acts 18:25
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.”
And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance. He also told the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”
On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:2 – 6
…one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephesians 4:5
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The AME tragedy took place in Charleston SC not Charlotte please correct for the sake of those lost their lives and their loved ones.
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Nail hit on the head! Thank you!
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God bless you for this letter to Franklin Graham. You are speaking truth to power……the power of wolves in sheep’s clothing. I am the daughter of a Lutheran pastor. I stopped attending my church of over 40 years due to Republican talking points coming from the pulpit. My dad is rolling in his grave over the behavior of Evangelicals in this country. Thank you for your voice.
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Peter, you are what a Christian looks like, not Frank Graham. Having lived in the Belt Buckle of the Bible Belt for over 50 years, I too do not understand this “attack on Christianity.” We have more churches per square mile than most other cities, and I see them full of people every Sunday. I see no one taking away their right to worship, not even the Jewish synagogues and temples across the street. Heck, there are even a few Hindu temples and Muslim mosques not too far from Christian churches, and there’s never been a bit of violence or even harsh words coming from Hindus and Muslims towards their Christian neighbors.
I must conclude that Frank Graham and his ilk are simply trying to increase their wealth and power through fear. People doing the work Jesus called them to do is not glamorous, and as I am sure you know, the pay is awful. When viewed from the perspective of increasing his wealth, Frank Graham’s endorsement of Trump makes perfect sense. Whatever else you say about him, Trump sure knows how to shaft people out of their money. He would be a good mentor for the megachurch pastors who care more for the coins in their parishioners’ pockets than the salvation of their souls.
Keep being a good man, Peter. Those of us who truly follow Jesus respect your efforts.
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I stand with you Peter, an agree with your letter to Franklin Graham. I would like to say also he did not build “”HIS”” fathers ministry. Franklin is taking his fathers ministry thru political mud just to walk with earthly mens power(white house)his father would not approve nor be seen with a man ( Donald Trump) like this President, nor would he allow himself to become involved with such men or their power. He did not inherit his fathers WISDOM.
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Disrespectful tone = not showing the love of Jesus. I wouldn’t listen to this “preacher.”
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It is not surprising that the author of this letter is not aware of any persecution of believers. He simply has not remained true to the historic teachings of the Christian church, and has followed the “theology of the Post Christian when it comes to moral teachings. His views are the same as the culture which is doing the persecuting. So naturally, he would not sense it.
The article simply parrots the media’s misrepresentation of the facts of the case. The couple who are being fined (and it is an enormously unjust amount), did not refuse to bake a cake because the clients were homosexual. They refused to bake a cake because it was for a so-called homosexual “marriage”. That makes all the difference in the world. If anyone else — including any non homosexual person, had asked them to do the same thing, they would have received the same response. They were not discriminating against anyone. They were refusing to participate in an event which would seriously violate their core religious beliefs.
Would someone not have the right to refuse to make a cake for an Ashley Madison event which championed their promotion of adultery? Would a First Nations engineer not have the right to refuse to participate in building a structure on an ancient burial ground? Should an African American be forced to make a sign praising the KKK?
The Bible — the same one that this pastor quotes — tells us to “hate that which is evil”. Marriage is sacred. The Bible makes that clear! It is so sacred, in fact, that Christ likens His relationship with the Church to a marriage. And the Bible make it clear that God’s standard for marriage is one man and one woman. (Genesis 1:27, 2:24 and Mark 10:6-9)
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This IS a condescending snarky letter filled with self importance and arrogance. The ocommon feature in all of the issues he discusses is that on these issues there is, to him, only one sided there is the good progressive side and there is the evil side. Take the issue of homosexuality. He doesn’t even address the fact that Paul clearly condemns it. Or maybe he’s a “Christian” pastor who thinks that the Bible, including the New Testament is simply irrelevant to modern Christians. Second he gets all preachy and sanctimonious about feeding people and caring for the poor and the sick to a guy whose organization, Samaritan’s Purse, was on the forefront of fighting the Ebola virus in WestbAfruca. remember that Doctor ( Brantley I think his name was) who became infected with the virus himself? He was a medical missionary as were two other doctors who became infected. If you are going to write a snarky self admiring open letter like this one, maybe you could leaven it with a little recognition. How many medical missionaries has this small church pastor sent to Africa, or anywhere, for that matter. ???? This is a nasty Mean spirited letter meant not for dialog but division. Right now Samaritans Purse is operating a field hospital outside of Mosul, treating sick and injured civilians. Is this pastors small church doing anything like that? In Texas they have a saying, “all hat and no cattle “. To describe pretend cowboys. Looks to me like this pastor has the hat but Franklin Graham actually takes care of the cattle
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Peter, why don’t you give your last name? I feel that you set a very bad tone by taking the liberty to call Franklin, “Frank” without knowing that Franklin does indeed go by “Frank.” That’s like a person named Richard being called “Dick” when that may truly not be his nickname. It’s a very smartass way in which you addressed Mr. Graham.
Peter, Mr. Graham does a lot for the people you mentioned. We don’t all have the calling. The religious liberties you speak of can easily be taken away at any time. You seem obsessed with the cake issue. May I ask why one would go to a baker and ask him/her to do something so you could just prove a point. There are a lot of bakers in this world and they bake really awesome cakes. Better yet, maybe you should get in the cake baking business because you don’t seem real enthusiastic in your current job. Or maybe you are happy.
Christians are the best at wounding their own. If you really cared about this, you would have written this letter with a smidgen of love.
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Thank you, Pastor Peter!!!!
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Thank you Pastor Peter for speaking up! And Frank, your father would be disappointed in you.
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Outstanding! Bravo!! Isn’t it a shame there aren’t more “Christians” like this one?
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Did you get a response from Frank? If so, what was it?
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Well said, sir! Your letter embodies every thing I was raised with and grew up understanding to be Christian in truth and practice, not Christian In Name Only aka CINO. Though I have found my own Spiritual needs met in other beliefs, I highly respect those who are True Christians and separate their words and deeds from CINOs. Thank you so much for your eloquent words and renewing my trust and faith that folks like you are still there. Namasté!
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This just makes me sad. When preachers start attacking each other in this manor I can totally understand why they should stay out of politics. Both of these men have kind hearts. Franklin has done more for the poor and desperate than most have even thought about and Peter cares deeply for his church and congregation. Why do they think they can judge and tear people apart with their words? Sad!!
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All I can say is this preacher must be a black man and a Democrat. The liberals are trying to take Christ out of this country and welcome Islamic Radicals who want to kill everyone that does not convert to Muslim faith. It is not the country I grew up in and I will do whatever it takes to keep Christ in this Blessed Country. If Clinton had won she would already be changing to a New World order and Socialism. Thank God for Trump! We, the people that voted for Trump do not always agree with him and some of the things he says but look at the choice we all had. I for one do not agree with Obama turning the White House into a Gay House with all the Rainbow colors. I think that was the last straw for most of us that decided to vote this past year. Enough is enough. Look at college kids and how they are behaving. They are listening to the Liberal College professors turning our young people against God. I am in my last years on this earth and I see young people that don’t have a clue about how government works. All they want is the freebies that Clinton and Sanders camp were promising them. Free College for everyone. College loan forgiveness. Everyone should get Government money and food stamps and let the rich pay for it. That is what all the young people are protesting. Oh my God I have to get a job and support myself. I hate to think what this country is going to look like in 20 years with the young people of today taking over. Back to the jealous preacher. The Bible also says that Scribes (Attorneys) and Pharisees (Preachers) will have a hard time entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
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Hey, naked racism in the very first line! Way to show your true, er… I’m sure you’ll be offended if I say “color,” but I frankly give none of what Pete would call “flying fruitcakes,” fruitcake.
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I would suspect that T. Winfree is a Liberal troll making comments to make Conservatives look like racists. It happens all the time. Don’t be fooled.
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Amen and thank you
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Not one soul will enter heaven with hate in his/her heart.I goes against everything in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.John said no man can love God and hate his brother.
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Smarmy, smart-mouthy, disrespectful letter.
Perhaps you don’t see the erosion of the US as clearly as some do?
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“Peter”, I have to say that if you can find fault in the ministry of Franklin Graham, then you are one mixed-up individual. Your “open letter” just screams “poor ol me!” And seeks to draw attention to yourself. Rev. Graham has used his influence to spread the word of Jesus’s salvation available for all! He is using donations to his ministry to serve ALL IN NEED, worldwide!! And worse yet, you seem to have followers of your own. You kinda remind me of Jim Jones!
You need to back up and take a long look at the good being done by Samaratin’s Purse & Franklin Graham ministries. And then tell your followers the truth about how this country has started to persecute Christian believers! Those of you who choose to stand by silently while honest people are persecuted and prosecuted for following their faith are a major part of the problem in the world today!
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Exactly on point and beautifully articulated!
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Amen and Amen .
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Wonderful. I agree with every word.
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God’s blessings upon you, Peter. Well said!
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Superbly written and to the point .Thank you .
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I’m not religious, sir, but I would attend your church if I could.
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Bless Your Heart, With All The LORD Has. A Better Statement has NOT BEEN MADE. The LORD Looks At The Heart. Not The Actions, The Conversations. The Half True Messages from the Pulpit. If You Preach Love, And Practice Hate, Discrimination, Racism, Bigotry, Sexism. You are Not A Man Of GOD. Believe Me. GOD IS NOT TO BE PLAYED WITH. Nor IS HIS WORD.
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Thank you for such clear thought on this topic. These mega pastors, like Franklin Graham, that preach exclusion and hate, have highjacked Christianity for personal profit. They appeal, not to God for grace, but to the anger that Christ told us to eschew. They appeal to anger because they know if they can convince their flock that the rest of us are their enemies, they will reap a greater commitment from their flock and the financial benefits that ensue. The disappointing fact is that they are effective at recruiting the angry. Just look at some of the responses to your post. Again, thank you for showing that not Christians are closed minded.
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Amen!
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_/|\_ Venerable
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To pastor peter. In ephesians 6 10-18 we dont fight against flesh and blood but against principalities and spiritual forces. It seems you dont like trump or franklin graham instead of an open letter like this pray for them franklin is suppose to be your brother not your enemy and for baking a cake for a gay wedding i would bake them a cake if i was in a bakery its a sin if you are religious a head knowledge nothing more God loves us all
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Thank you for writing this letter to this person. Your “religion” makes more sense to me that what Franklin Graham is preaching. My sister knows the Graham family and Franklin was not Billy’s first choice for taking his place because their views of humanity do differ My God loves and made us all and Heaven is all inclusive.
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The “Truth” is that God is and always been our SAVIOUR but thank HIM for coming as the “meek and lowly one, the one we could approach unto so he could tell us the truth about himself as JESUS.” T
he earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan’s deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God’s government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world’s dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, “with healing in His wings.” Malachi 4:2.
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Pastor, please remember that all of us Christians are in this battle together, and we do no good in this spiritual war fair by belittling another brother or sister in Christ. We each have our calling, and we each have the vineyard we have been called to work in. Your criticisms of Dr Graham only serve to show your personal disgruntlements. Instead of attempting to discredit another of God’s servants, your time would be better spent praying for him and faithfully tending the precious little flock God had entrusted to your care.
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I respectfully diagree with you Pastor. We have all seen Rev Graham’s good fruits. By their fruits you’ll know them. However, your letter reveals bitterness. We should be building up each other not tearing down.Rev Graham holds a larger world view. Having ministered in very small congregations and with both a Governmental and Legislative background, I have witnessed an increasing attempt to silence the Christian church in the US. Christian students also face hostility on college campuses. We are also charged to pray for those in authority, including President Trump, regardless of whether or not we agree with his policies.
Rev Graham is right on!
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We’ll said Pastor! I have issues with men and women of God who have million dollar compounds and even bigger churches! And it does say to “follow the laws of the land!” And to “render to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s” hence the tax exempt mega churches! If you’re doing the will of God then by all means be exempt! But 3 or 4 private jets while some members of your congregation go hungry? Than you sir for your wise words and may He bless you richly!
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This is beautiful. I am still flummoxed that church people think God put drumpf in the White House. No, he is the Anti-Christ, and I, too, will follow the teachings of Jesus the Christ. In how I treat my fellow man.
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I’m not a church goer, don’t consider myself a Christian but I would gladly attend services at Peter’s church. Thanks for sharing.
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Love your neighbor as yourself. And remember we are all neighbors.
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Franklin Graham’s organization, Samaritan’s Purse, has helped millions of people. Through his Operation Christmas Child program over ten million shoe boxes filled with toys, clothes, toiletries, school supplies, etc. have been distributed all over the world since 1993. And wherever there are wars, natural disasters, or other tragedies in our country or anywhere in the world Samaritan’s Purse is always one of the first disaster relief agencies there. So, I think that in the parable of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 the Lord would say to Franklin Graham, “I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me”. And I am certain that his passion for doing these things came from his love of Christ as he READ the BIBLE.
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In the last 13+ years, anyone’s asked me what religion I practice, I tell them I’m a Samaritan. Yep…the one from the NT…the one who was looked down upon in society…the *only* one who took the time to help the merchant who’d been attacked, robbed, & left for dead. Xtians don’t need “special” rights allowing to take over this country OR the world.
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Dear Peter, Pardon me for saying so…..I mean I belong to a big church in a small town so I hope this doesn’t disqualify me from speaking out (Lake City, FL), but I don’t recall “seeing” any of those horrible things you describe the President of doing to young girls or women, did you? Or, did you “hear” about it in some Drive-by media story like the kind you see every single day on CNN, MSNBC or other Leftist networks? Perhaps some of the other things you cite in your letter to “Frank” where you pose as a small town Pastor–personally I believe you’re a died in the wool Liberal because your talking points sound just like what I’ve been hearing from the Left since, well since forever. Whatever the truth is here, it is clear you have an agenda with your letter and you have revealed yourself clearly, though you really had me going early in your letter, but as Liberals are prone to do, you weren’t able to control your keyboard long enough to make your point in your open letter without it sounding quite political. I’m not going to debate your opinion because I’ve learned that in order to have a healthy discussion of the issues, both parties need to try to understand the other side. You can disagree on something, that’s ok. It’s not ok however to twist truths into half-truths to benefit your agenda, or to make up false stories that prop up your skewed view of the side to which you disagree, all so that it fits your made up propaganda. That’s the problem with the Left Peter–they just can’t see things for what they are, but instead see things only from their viewpoint, truth be damned. (Oh, sorry for the profanity) Anyhow, I’ll pray for you anyway because as you say we are supposed to pray for our enemies, but it is profoundly sad that mine are right here in my own country, and that is sad indeed.
From a fair minded Christian
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you ! Due to Franklin Graham and others like him, I no longer refer to myself or allow others to refer to me as a “Christian.” I want to be known as a “Follower of Jesus.” I do not want to be associated with the self serving, uncaring and often times contempt demonstrated by those who claim to be “men and women of God ” but who act completely contrary to the scriptures
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Amen!! Exactly what I wish I could personally say to him and others like him!! He doesn’t represent the typical Christian. Some of us don’t believe God had anything to do with 45 being elected our president, but we do know that with God’s help, we can get through this though!! Thank you for this very well written letter!!
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May be his one million annual income clouds his thinking.
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Great article! It states so well what I believe. It almost makes me want to go back to church! One correction, Emanuel AME Church is in Charleston, not Charlotte.
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No wonder non christians dont want to come to church we are suppose to be unified instead we are in fighting i am sure God is not happy about this in john 17 jesus prays for unity us too
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Thank you for this beautiful letter, right and so spot on!
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Preach!!$. Brilliance!! T y. T y. T y. T y !!!
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Thank you, because at 76, I get confused about what’s going on and being said.
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Well stated sir. I would be happy to call you my Pastor.
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Wonderful! An inspirational letter!!
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I felt a sense of relief when I read this and an explanation of the inner turmoil as a Christian I have felt since this whole election thing started.
I am a Christian, maybe not a good one but I am a Christian. I have faith in God and believe in the Bible though I do not take every word literally. I have lost faith in religion and many leaders; but not God.
One day some people stopped by my house inviting me to their church. I tried, in my clumsy verbal manner, to explain my conflicts. The lady politely stated “I’ll tell you what Dr. James Dobson says. He says Christians should always vote Republican.” That did not help my turmoil.
I was told by a Catholic friend that someone suggested any Catholic voting for Hillary should be excommunicated. I know! I know! The Supreme Court! The abortion issues.
(I will add til this election, I had never voted anything but Republican; never cared about politics. Due to the aftermath of my decision which was not based on party, I will never be Republican or Democrat, but always an independent)
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Dear Reverend Peter,
Your God is my God too. As a Christian I know that Jesus told us the importance of love and how we are to show that agape love. He said to love people enough to help them with a special emphasis on the marginalized.
Love is abundant. God’s love is infinite. Your love for God should be seen in how we treat each other.
Thank you for your powerful words of truth.
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Emmanuel AME is in Charleston not Charlotte, otherwise – Awesome Post! I grew up in a tiny church where some Sundays I was related to every person there. The church is still small and, even though I bet the majority of them voted for Trump, none of them live like him. They really do live like the Bible, feeding the hungry, tending the sick, burying the dead, celebrating their Lord. I doubt they see the disconnect between their vote and their life. But I won’t judge them for it. I hope you really did send this to Franklin Graham. And I hope it gets a lot of traction. Because even though I no longer believe in a personal deity, any deity worth believing in would say Amen to your letter.
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Great article. I am an atheist, and this pastor Peter sounds cool and smart (oh, and witty)
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Petey, can I call you Petey? Actually, that’s rather rude of me, so I apologize. You come across as very condescending when you call a man who goes by “Franklin” any other name. Just an honest question as I’m not judging, but what was in your heart when you wrote that?
I think Trump was the lesser of the two evils, so I’m glad he won as we have a Justice whose more likely to be anti-birth control by feticide. Justice Gorsuch is why Trump won in November. Otherwise, Hillary would’ve continued Merrick Garland’s nomination.
God bless,
Fellow Believer
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Peter, Don’t forget Matthew7:1-3 and John 8:7.
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Reblogged this on Rainbowman56's Blog.
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AWESOME LETTER ~ Amen Peter, Thank You, Amen God Bless you, your family & you congregation 😀❤️
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The size of the church is not important. But if you go with the flow and fail to stand up for your beliefs, you will not experience persecution. So, play it safe, that will protect you from persecution. The early Bible characters that you mentioned did not play it safe, they stood up for their beliefs in God!
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Jesus didn’t encourage people to keep sinning. He encouraged them to “repent, and believe in the Gospel”.
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Reblogged this on Zwinglius Redivivus and commented:
Bravo.
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If more Christian pastors and parishioners thought and spoke like this, I’d have been a lot less likely to walk away from the Christian faith. This article is written in the voice of the Jesus that I read about, the person I came to understand, and the person I was ultimately unable to find amongst the faithful in the pews.
I mean this honestly, even from the heretical-according-to-evangelical-thought spiritual shore on which I find myself: In whatever form that he, she, or it takes, God bless the author of this article.
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I’d offer one small addition. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume Christians in the US are being persecuted. Jesus certainly had good counsel on that issue: Matthew 5: 11-12.
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I’ve become a little “afraid” of going to small churches, Pastor Peter, because, growing up in the midwest and the southland, I experienced a few too many of them where all the preacher talked about was how bad “gay” people are, how people on welfare are satanists, and how many people are going to burn in the lake of fire. Jesus didn’t say a word about any of those things.
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This is a letter I have wanted to write for a long time. Thank you so much for this! God is Love.
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I don’t believe for a second this was written by a real Christian pastor…Looks like another liberal “ghostwriter” job to me. They do it all the time…marketing is their strength…really gets your attention doesn’t it. Reveal yourself Peter!
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Peter, if that’s really your name. Shame on you for publically attacking your brother in Christ in order to get applause from men. If you had something to say to Pastor Graham and you were a man of any character or just plain followed the teachings of Jesus then you would have gone to him personally one on one. Shame on you.
Tina
#Iamnotapastorjustasheep
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Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I would like to think that Frank would actually read this all the way through, but alas, I fear his mind is as closed as his Bible.
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You only mention good works. We should have good works and they should grow from a heart that is thankful that god became man and died on the cross to save me from my sins. I dont see any mention of the cross in your definition of Christian.
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So pastor, you saying Trump couldn’t get saved and no longer do the things when he was a young jerk and now be a good christian man? He wants healthcare for everyone and is working on it, He wants jobs for all. I felt the same way about the cakes, just bake the cakes and let God handle the sin.
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Amen sir!!! Glad to hear this from a minister, my thoughts exactly!!!
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In recent years I have begun to think faith was merely the excuse to rationalize exclusion. To be the excuse to deny generosity, a helping hand, putting obscene greed and dishonesty, using faith as the excuse to make your selfishness, hate, exclusions acceptable, to win a vote. To gain power to selfishly, hatefully abuse, exclude and deny everything you preach about in front of your congregation. Ever wonder why young people, and generations ignore your words, they are mostly noise, in a world seeming to pursue hate, exclusion,abuse, denial of basic needs. They are selfish pursuits, and dishonest chatter to line your pockets with a big show and often speakers are absent of faith as in truth like Frank and his Father just chatter filled with exclusion, denial of freedom and rights, the only goal individual hate and intolerance. I vaguely remember his father sitting and exchanging hateful anti Jewish exchange with Richard Nixon in the Whitehouse. So the hate is inbreed, long term and evil. Certainly not positive for our country or world. Compassion, justice, joy, happiness, concern for our environment,and concern for all living things. The path to world peace.
The hated divisiveness fostered by Frank and RUMP are clearly not the future of our world.
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You, sir, have just made my day! Your “letter” to Frank humorously expresses what I’ve wanted to scream at him and every other so called Christian whose beliefs are just as misquided and incredibly perplexing. Thank you for sharing some precious moments of sanity in this ever increasing mixed up world!
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Awesome truthful letter of response to Franklin Graham.thanks Peter for writing and speaking for small churches and Pastor.
Please make sure VP Mike Pence gets a copy of your letter. God bless you Peter for the boldness of Paul.
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I absolutely love this letter. Everything that you said, I agree with 1000% (yes, I know there is an extra zero). Your letter is spot on. Everything you touched on reminds me of the days of Sunday School, church, bible study, and even my education (Took religion as an elective in college). I am glad that a small town preacher said it.
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I certainly agree with you on all of these points,I certainly know God is soverign he can allow,and everything that happens is not his will I believe, But he can USE it if he chooses to bring about his WILL,or bring his WILL to pass.Scripture:”ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD”
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Wow. Thanks for expressing what so many of us believe.
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Great letter. But the problem with this puritanical thinking becomes apparent when the Kingdom of God as they expect does not arrive in time. By the time they realize it, the cultural and political ground from under their feet would have been shifted beyond rich, leaving them in the mercy of a casim. It is wiser to see a broken man like Trump can become an instrument to hold the favorable ground from splitting under the church. To hope for a perfect man to rule is self defeating. But it is much better to have a man that does not aim to replace the Bible with something else than a man who would do that. A Cyrus is better than a Nebukadnezar, a Constantine is better than a Nero. But if we don’t appreciate a Cyrus or a Constantine, we surely will have the others in due time. That’s when the grounds would have gone far asunder from underneath.
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AMEN Sir. Love Never Fails. Jesus Never Fails. Billy Graham would not agree with Franklin – this is the sad thing. I do not believe this man is preaching from the same pages. Go back to your bible Franklin, “be still and know that I Am” Mr. Trump is in no way shape or form a Christian and to use Christ to obtain your votes and maintain support by using his name from time to time is reprehensible and gives all Christians a bad name. I love all couples, heterosexual, gay, etc. It is not mine to judge. My job is to try to adhere to Christ’s example –
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The hefty fine was not for refuaing to bake a cake. It was for doxxing the couple who had requested the cake.
In case your readers aren’t familiar with the term, “doxxing” is releasing information about a person, such as a home address or phone number, for the purpose of causing harrassment or harm.
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Sorry Peter, the bible’s references about the sodomite life style haven’t changed. Paul explicitly condemns this in Romans. I can hardly see Paul baking a cake for Adam and Steve.
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I love the haters here indicting Peter (and / or his church) because he pastors a small membership congregation.
As if God loves only large churches. As if size is an indication of health or faithfulness.
Neither of which is true. Or biblical.
Well spoken, Pastor.
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“For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your Heaenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins”
– Matthew 6: 14, 15
We cannot bring people to Jesus through judgment and condemnation. We must love people to Jesus.
May God bless you abundantly, Peter, as you and your church continue to love people to Jesus.
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Pertaining to persecution, the Bible says Christ’s followers will be persecuted and they were in the first century, some till death. It is the same today and also thru the ancient ages. I was reading how Jehovah’s Witnesses, have been banned AGAIN in Russia. They have been worshipping and preaching the Bible for decades underground. Then got some freedom when the political arena changed. Now it’s back to outright persecution. Their Bibles, literature and Kingdom Halls they meet in to worship have all been seized and banned. What if this happened to mainstream religions in The United States? What would you do? Shrink back into oblivion or keep practicing your faith in God? So many religions know nothing of real persecution that they literally have to sacrifice their life for like the early apostles. If and when it comes, what will you do?
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This letter is BRILLIANT! Pastor Peter rocks! I am sharing it!
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I feel as if I had just listened to the evening news and got the latest in “MY” opinion instead of the facts. We as Christians are under attack daily, according to my Bible. We are quietly allowing small groups to force our children to turn farther and farther from God and His teachings. I am an old guy, but can honestly say with conviction that I have never been afraid of anything. But I am sensing a growing presence of the powers and workings on the devil. From our politicians nationally, to our state and local leaders as well. I see the numbers in the Churches dropping drastically. This scares me for I realize that the younger generations of children and young adults will have slid over that fence and completely turned from Jesus, while all the time listening to the adults, Pastors and others telling them that it will be ok! You don’t have to take the word literally! Just like a person in the ocean, if you take your eyes off the beach and don’t pay attention, you will soon find yourself too far out, to swim back! Salvation and followup to our friends, family and new converts is not taking center stage in the Churches as it once was. And yes, that scares me! Those of us that are saved, have Bibles and know how to study, will be ok, but those that have not made a decision nor have any idea what to do next, need our help, our prayers and our hands on attention to help make sure that they make Heaven..
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Dear brother Peter: There is persecution of Christians even in America. 2 Tim 3-12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ shall suffer persecution.
Either the Bible is a lie or the Christian is not living godly. I suspect you may not be sharing the gospel, the death, burial and resurection of Jesus and the need to accept Him as your Lord and Savior in a public forum. Although I’m not godly or good, I have been arrested and jailed for simply offering gospel tracts on a public right of way. This year a police captian in a large city threatened me and my wife with arrest if we passed out tracts in a public right of way. Wake up and smell the coffee as our right to freely practice our religion and speech are being taken away. Maybe you ought to read 2Tim 2-5. By the way have you prayed for Trump? 1Tim 2:1-3.I prayed for Obama.
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AMEN!!!!
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One can just about prove anything is right using scripture. But what is important is context, not isolated scriptures. The whole of scripture is the theme that man is a sinner and is unable to save himself. It took the intervention of God to pay the penalty for each man’s sins in the sacrificial death of his perfect Son, Jesus. So no one can work his way or pay his way to God. So let us put “the do good social gospel” to rest. It will not get one to God. Does that make me an evangelical?
But let us also put the idea that believing in Jesus will get one to God–even the devils believe and tremble. The rich young ruler offers a clue. Jesus told him to sell all that he had and give to the poor. This action would not save him but because his faith was in his wralth, he had to give that up to follow Jesus. I think it is clear he already believed that Jesus was the Messiah of God, but he had to leave self behind.
So it is that the true followers of Jesus, Christians, are called to believe in Jesus’ sacrifice for their sins (Savior), give up self and follow him (Lord), allowing his Holy Spirit to flow through them in action–to family, neighbors, and strangers–in deeds of prayer, encouragement, and assistance.
Do not paint all evangelicals with the same brush–some are just shallow believers true, but others are followers of their Lord–doing good not on their own but because His love flows through them. I think as an aside, it is interesting that evangelicals have highest rate of charitable giving of any group. But even more so I see Christians that have been called to give of themselves, not just money which is easy, to help children, single moms, the shut-ins, those with mental struggles of death, divorce, drugs and the list goes on. And the purpose is not the dependency of welfare? But to bring them into the glorious life of faith in Christ. I know I could not live through my struggles with cancer, heart failure, and pending death without faith and the support of the followers of Jesus.
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I guess I am a little confused here. I am seeing the man who wrote this as being a very angry man. The Bible tells us to live in the world but not to be of the world. Why are you so hostile about a “baker” not wanting to sell his cake to a gay couple. Maybe this baker feels like he would be being “of the world” and encouraging this sin if he did in fact sell them the cake. When one approves of Shariah Law is that not being “of” the world?? I believe maybe you should rethink some of your statements. I have to agree on some of the statements regarding mega churches but before being so critical of others maybe one should spend a little more time looking at self, me included!Iwe are not to condemn the sinner as that is God’s job but we are to love them and pray for them that God and the Holy Spirit will convict them.
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Reblogged this on Site Title.
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Excellent letter! I believe it wholeheartedly! Thank you for writing it!
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Although there is a legitimate criticism to be made concerning Franklin Graham’s political activity, this article fails to do it. The theological arguments fail. When I stand before God, my credentials are not based on my works. It is Christ. This pastor is doing the same things he accuses Graham of doing,
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Whether you agree with Franklin or not, this article was very condescending and divisive. Saddens me.
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This letter applies to anyone who discriminates and calls for discrimination based on social position in a subculture. Wonderfully, honestly, lovingly written.
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Well this is the nicest thing I’ve ever seen written by a Christian. I’d be proud to work alongside him.
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Well said sir. May those special hear your words and start living by them.
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Thank you for pointing out to Frank that which should be obvious to every real Christian: if you don’t follow the ways of God, you are not a Christian. The Bible is actually pretty simple-it teaches you LOVE. If you have love, you don’t have the feeling of having the right to make fun of other people, to tell lie after lie, to use women in awful ways. Religion, or the teachings of God, is a totally different deal than running a country, which is politics. When I hear someone singing the praises of Jesus, then telling people how to vote, it sounds more to me like what my grandmother used to say “is that old Devil working in you”. Why would you muddy one with the other, Frank? Just who are you and who have you forgotten you are supposed to be??
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Billy Graham was a “love thy neighbor”, “agape” -type preacher. Im not sure what Franklin is going on about. Loved this response.
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Thank you! Well said.
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A very powerful statement. My great uncle was a small church pastor throughout his lifetime. He faithfully ministered to his small rural congregation each and every Sunday. Even though he didn’t have a car, the bus company made a lot of money off him for 50 plus years. He worked at a job because his salary from the church was whatever was taken up from the collection. But he remained faithful. The so called mega churches are nothing but a business,fronting as a church, plying on the weakminded.
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Thank you.
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Correction: Emanuel AME Church is in Charleston, SC, not Charlotte.
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An excellent response! Pastor Franklin should read this and then adjust his stand.
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Word!
Thank you, Pastor Peter.
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Thank you Pastor! Your letter is right on point and well written. Thank you Jesus and AMEN!!!
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Sounds right to me. I am a former Christian who has come to believe that all religion is simply a means of controlling people and warring against people that don’t believe as you do. It is why the world is always in turmoil. We need to stop blaming God and the Devil and realize that ” The buck stops here”. If Christians behaved as you suggest, I mi
ght still be one.
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As an atheist, I all-too-often notice the Christians like Graham who seem to be preaching a message quite dissimilar to the one the Jesus of the Bible taught, and I wonder why they claim to love and follow this Jesus so much when they clearly don’t care what he said. So it’s always delightful and relieving to find Christians, especially Christian leaders talking about following the scriptural Jesus by loving others and caring for the poor, sick, elderly, widowed, and orphaned. So thank you for this very kind letter to the dear reverend on his profound difference of belief, his undeserved sense of persecution (disagreement is not persecution), and his apparent loyalty to a political party over the needy.
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Well, Mr. Peter…………I think your letter was very MEAN-SPIRITED……..you (to me) did NOT present yourself as a CHRISTIAN should………..AND, YES, the Bible does say God puts “those” in AUTHORITY………ROMANS 13: 1-7
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AMEN!
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Everyone is a hater and a critic these days. A backhanded sarcastic letter Creates more division in the church than there already is. Easy to point fingers, but of course no solutions given by some guy who says his name is Peter.
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Great article ! Thank you !
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I have to say that Pastor Peter brings out thought provoking points. However, all of it could very well go down the drain as he uses sarcasm and ridicule toward Franklin to make his points. I personally would have appreciated reading this “open” letter far more had it been intended for and written in a spirit of exhortation and love, rather than with a grandstanding and offensive attitude.
People do not thrive, grow or learn on criticism and harsh judgment – not even Franklin.
Let he who is without sin…..
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If we as Christians don’t stand against what is wrong in this world (wrong as in against what Christ teaches) then we let the world know that we, as Christians, are ok with it. And that is what is wrong with this country, people just accepting things, so they won’t make waves. I for one am NOT ok with what is wrong with this country. NO ONE is going to tell me what I can say, bake or do as a born again Christian, except the Almighty. We are called to live Christian lives, not live as or agree with the world. Sorry, but this attack on Pastor Graham is way out of line. And, I will pray for you, that God will open your eyes to see what He would have you to see around you.
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I am so estatic that someone is calling out Franklin Graham, so-called Evangelists and church people of a certain race about supporting Donald Trump, how can God fearing people support a racist, sexist, vulgar, lying, cheating, immoral, ignorant man such as him and support his lack of care for anyone but himself, his family and his corrupt and rich associates, someone who is destroying America and has reignited racial tentions which we know were already there but now they are bold and many will admit openly that it is because tRump is in office, do you think he cares about you all? When Barack Obama was president you and your fellow evangelists and church goers were crying and praying for him to die. You people hated him because he was black and holding the highest office in America became you were against him before he messed up with the gay rights mess.I did not agree with some things that President Obama did, I do not agree with gay marriage and gray rights and as a Christian I do not want to support any of their agendas so that is not my problem with you and your kind, I just can’t understand how so-called Christians hate the fact that a black man was voted in as President of the United States of America so now you support and follow a man that has no morals because he wanted to TAKE AMERICA BACK and we know what that means, you were afraid that you would not be the MAJORITY any longer with a black President. How can you call yourself Christian and lead thousands of people astray to support that fool? You constantly ignore all he is doing, you say things like God put him in the office, well I guess he put a corrupt man as leader to reveal how corrupt and racist America and its government is and show the hypocrisy of so-called Christian leaders. Do you actually think Jesus is pleased with him and you all? All you Leaders, Pastors etc need to repeat and go back to your congregations and followers and admit you are wrong and take your blinders off…you all will give an account for this one day!
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Love the message when the message is love! Thanks for writing this.
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ll this god stuff is a load of baloney! Give scientific proof that such an entity actually exists and is not just a creation of insecure imaginations and the need for something to cling to? All this ‘Love your neighbour as yourself’ stuff is what it means to be ‘truly human’..and .has nothing to do with what any fanciful entity of anyone’s imagination is supposed to have said. “.. love one another the best we can (which sometimes isn’t very well); feed the hungry that come to our doors; care for the sick; comfort the dying; …”. That’s pure and simple ‘human morality’. Jesus (if he ever said anything) cannot claim it as ‘his’; it holds central position in the doctrines of all great belief systems, beginning with agnostics, atheists and onto Pagans, Jews, Islam, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhism, etc, etc. I thought I was a christian, until I met the hypocrisy within my local christian church and realised that I didn’t want to bury my head in some archaic scribbles of deluded men (notice, not many women come up with such baloney!!).and then use language not present in the holy scriptures, to criticise a fellow devotee. That was it! Enough is enough! My form of christianity wanted to raise its head and step out into the world to: ‘…love one another the best I can (which sometimes isn’t very well); feed the hungry that come to my doors; care for the sick; comfort the dying…etc.’ and at that juncture, I realised that I was Agnostic!! I could do what my conscience dictated without fear of ‘hell-fire’ or any such crap! In the past 3 weeks I have given comfort to a widow; facilitated food and shelter for a family; currently facilitating the the healing of a child with TB and Renal failure! HOW DARE I !! I’m not a christian and neither do I identify with any other religious dogma! Its all baloney!!
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Love the message when the message is love! Thanks for writing this.
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This “letter” has all the trappings of an urban legend. Urban legands sound real but when you read them carefully you find that there is no way to athenticate the source. There is no actual church listed, no last name of the pastor, and no reference to where this “open letter” was published. Anyone could have written this and therefore the author is using the same deceit that is called out in the article.
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Your message was spot on sir. I think you have some very lucky parishioners. I really wish Hillary had not been cheated, I would have loved to see a real Christian in the White House. Hillary is and always has been a devoted Methodist. I feel sorry for those who think otherwise. This whole thing with people saying they are persecuted because they cannot have things their way has gotten out of hand and I am glad that there are men/women of the cloth who preach HOW to follow Christ, not fake it…You and your fellow pastors please keep up the good works and we may yet go back to church when we feel that God and Christ actually reside there..
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I am an Atheist and wish I could believe in God, but people like Rev. Franklin Graham are the reason. Men or women who go around pretending they have a close relationship to God and then fooling needy folks who are desperate for hope, usually end up without anything except an empty wallet. If Jesus Christ was alive today Mr, Graham would be on his “drive him out” list. Thanks for a great letter. It might do “LYING DONALD TRUMP” some good to read it.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The idea Christ would support the greed and oppression coming from our “elected” officials is absurd in the extreme.
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I think a lot of potential positive results you might otherwise get from your post is lost in your biting sarcasm. I have a hard time getting past the way you (ostensibly) speak to a fellow brother in Christ.
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Amen, amen!
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Respectfully disagree there should be accomadations for those with deeply held religious beliefs. I was given Sundays off for Church when I worked at Haslett Shop Rite as a young man!!!
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I can agree with much of this but this pastor starts out by saying the bakery owners should have obeyed the law and baked the cake, yes he is correct, but then he wavers off in to health care, no where in my copy of the constitution does it say the government is responsible for our health care, is that not a law? The government has no business in the churches or their business, It should be and it is the responsibility of the Christians in America to care for the “weakest among us” not the governments, It has been proven over many years that the more money the government spends on the poor, the less money in donations and service comes from the private sector. It is not up to the government to do anything but protect our borders and foreign trade, they have provided us with a national highway system so we can all move freely any where in the country we wish, they have given money to the states to distribute to various school districts, dam projects, waterway care, even construction of airports so we can fly anywhere we want, I am still looking for the law that says they have to wipe our butts and put food in our mouth, yes Frank needs to stay out of even commenting on politics, that is not his job, after all I am certain he does not want the government coming in to his church and forcing him to donate 60% of the tithe to care for the poor, all though that would be a great idea. While we are on that subject, where in the bible does it say give your tithe to the church? It doesn’t, it says give your tithe to god, your tithe is described as part of everything you receive, If you help the “weakest among us” that is part of your tithe, if you spend 10% of your time helping others, that is part of your tithe, Jesus said go forth in to the darkest corners of the earth and tell every one about me, he didn’t say keep beating a dead horse, the money they collect for the mission fields is 90% or more wasted, even if they make a convert, the governments of some of those countries will come in and kill the missionary’s and force the saved back to what ever they worshiped before. In conclusion, Frank was wrong but this pastor is even more wrong, Trump is good for America because is is downsizing the government, clearing corruption and collusion daily, He is not always right and sometimes I wince at things he says, but he is certainly one of if not the most intelligent president we have ever had, his mind runs on so many tracks simultaneously its no wonder things he did not really intend to say blurt out. Give him a chance, I hope he completely dismantles any kind of government health care, gets tort reform in place to lower healthcare cost and flushes washing DC right down to the streets, we are tired of the corruption in our government, if he had not been elected, we would be in a civil war by now, just because a handful of states together have more population than the other 41 does not mean they should be able to control an election, that is the reason for the electoral college.
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Thank you 😊 restoring my faith in true Christianity
Sincerely,
One whose been lost
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Well said and “well said”.
No response from frank? Not surprising.
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Amen Well said and great use of references.
I, too, will continue to pray with rev peter
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Very well said seriously Frank your Poppa was much better at bringing people of all faiths together and keeping out of politics.. He prayed with all presidents in a nonpartisan way.. I feel your condemnation:)
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Who is he writing letter too? Franlin ghram? If so it should have been private but since it wasn’t the statements about how he differs in opinion on certain issues doesn’t seem like it comes from a place of concern but more from a place of anger and jealousy.. Now preaching the good news about Jesus is not a competition it about getting people saved.. The bible says judge a man by his fruit so that’s what I do. No body is perfect but there is no way you can tell me that Franklin gram isn’t being blessed and led by the lord. he is bringing Jesus and his gift of salvation to the whole world.. When he talks about persecution of Christians in America i believe he talking about political correctness being the new standard and how politics have tried to cut the tung out of the mouth of the church preventing it from spreading the gospel in our own backyard which is 100% true just look up highschool football coach who was fired in Bremerton for praying by himself after game on the field.. Who cares what the law says is discrimination isn’t it discrimination to make a lady do something she feels goes against her believes and to be jailed for that is straight ridiculous when there’s rapist just getting probation kuzz judges think they wouldn’t be able to handle prison. Last time I checked gay marriage was legal in every state now so I would ask author of letter is he going to start pastoring gay weddings at his church now because the law of land says its discrimination if not. Gods law supersedes ours if there are in confliction.. He asked for prayers not to be mocked as if he never read the bible and criticised. Shame on this pastor to try and judge Franklin gram for sticking up for Christians in america. The bible says pray for government leaders wether you agree with them or not and trust that the lord has it handled. In this whole letter I didn’t see once where he said. He’d pray for Franklin gram and the church who are driving the vehicle god has provided to share the news of Jesus and salvation through him which is the most I mean the most important job to be done. I agree with pastor about things he said he would pray for which I’m sure Franklin gram does to but to act as if that’s all you were going to pray for like persecution doesn’t happen to Christians at all in America just kuzz he doesn’t experience it is just ignorant.. Maybe he should get out of his comfort zone out in the woods and visit civilization where persecution of God’s word (Jesus) is a real issue… A house built on sand has no foundation and always falls.. Everyone is aloud to disagree with another but As Christians this should have been private and have come more from a place of concern then anger and jealousy
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You are self-sufficient and have all you need, Peter. You don’t need to write and bother Frank about nothing. Just continue doing what you are doing as if Frank never dropped by your small church.
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Thank you for your candor and decency. The corruption of the prosperity gospel has corrupted the hearts and minds of many Christians who are none the wiser that they are being led grossly astray. Because someone like Donald Trump is succesful is absolutrly no sign of God’s blessings as Jesus said to the rich man to follow me sell all your possessions and give it to the needy.
The primary teachings of Christ any real christian should follow are “do unto others as you would have done unto you” and “that which you do to the least of these you do unto me” these principals are now viewed as Liberalism and incompatible with pastor
Graham and other evangelical (so-called) Christians worldview. They have been led far astray just as the Bible warned would happen with false prophets ect. The evangelicals more represent the Babylonians and the city of Mammon version of immoralism from Revelations than any form of Christianity.
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THANK YOU from a small church gal.
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Peter, your words are true and just. Don’t waste your time responding to Frank Graham, he is nothing more than an anti christ, the devil incarnate. A son who has betrayed a lifetime of hard evangelistic work his father gave to thousands of people all over the world. A sin that he will pay for on judgement day.
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I don’t think this man knows who Franklin Graham really is. His letter is disrespectful and sarcastic to say the least. I’m very sure Mr Graham knows all about persecution as he has travels the world in an effort to help those who suffer. His Samaritans Purse Ministries do more to help the poor than almost any org I know of. It’s not just shoe boxes. It’s supplying hospital ER’s in 3rd world countries with enough supplies to last 5 yrs, it’s mobile medical teams that go to hard to reach places where there is no medical help at all. It’s rebuilding homes and businesses that are destroyed by war, it is giving animals to villagers to help them feed their children and themselves for many years. It’s bringing children with serious med problems to Drs that can help and paying for all of it, even housing the families so they can be near the child. It’s being first respondeners in the US when flood, tornadoes, earthquakes or any other disaster that strikes, to feed, clothes, house, clean up and rebuild. He is not a mega-church minister and I don’t know if he attends a mega-church. If mega-churches were on his tour it is no doubt because he was invited. 1000s come to hear this man speak so he might just need a large church for that. Did you invite him? Have you ever even spoken to the man? Who are you to judge him, who are any of you. He does more in one hour to help the poor, hungry, and homeless then most do in a lifetime.
Should we not be concerned about the things that are happening in our country to silence Christians? If you can see it happening, you aren’t paying attention.This is how it starts, shall we wait until they are killing and putting us in jail, because it’s coming people. How do you know there aren’t people being persecuted in this country? And not because they break the law, but because their neighbors don’t like them having a bible study in their home, so they complain and get the put in jail. They didn’t like it that someone prayed over their food in a school lunchroom so they lose their job and face jail time for it. How many are willing to go to jail, lose your job, be treated like crap at work, ruined by lies on Facebook and Twitter? Not me, not any of us because we don’t even want to wait in a long line! Speaking the truth is hard and hearing it is unpleasant and uncomfortable. If you want to conform, it is your right, but if you are a Christian you need to be a light, stand apart, take the crap people dish out and it is hard, but oh so worth it. To hear the Lord say, “Well done good and faithful servant.” will be worth it all and some of that unpleasantness may just be letting people know we won’t go along with their gay marriage. But guess what, this is a shocker-it doesn’t mean we hate. You can actually love and say no.
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Yay!!!! A real Preacher of Jesus Christ!!! Bless you Peter!!!! I agree totally with your words!!!! Franklin is not Billy!!! Counteracts his daddy’s life long ministry!!!! Love everybody!!! God will sort the effects out later!!! His job not ours!!!
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One thing this Pastor does not realize is that Obama in 8 years brought his Muslim Brotherhood to the forefront. He statigically placed Muslims in every sector of our Government. Hillary had Huma Abideen who had access to secret information and if you think she didn’t send info. Back to her mom who was in a Muslim office in England and a huge and active participant in the Muslim Brotherhood you would be incorrect. Hillary was seemly free with classified information and we know it was based on information from Wikileaks. America has been silently under siege and Christianity according to the Koran will be extinguished. They have been silently moving into this Country and building Mosque and if you think they are here to love us and get along, you are sadly mistaken. You may be in your little Church of 30 or 40 and you see the picture according to your small Church but Rev. Graham represents the Big Picture and is privy to information that probably you are not. He sees the corruptness in Washington. He sees the Devil’s work.He sees George Soros paying protestors and he sees evil trying to ruin Donald Trump. Our God sees the evil and he knows and sees numbers of people who would welcome Muslims and accept Allah. He sees some schools teaching Islam yet Christianity cannot be mentioned. He sees abortions being used as a form of Birth control and Obamacare paying for it. He sees same sex marriage being portrayed as normal and Hollywood glamorizes it. You may be a small Church but you need to wake up to see the Big Picture. Look and England, look at Germany and look at France and Sweden. Islam is on the rise and they are taking over. They want Islam to take over and according to the Koran, there is no other Religion. Christianity is indeed under seize and the liberals are helping with that with their liberal agendas. Before you Speak again , May I suggest you walk in his shoes and maybe God can open your eyes.
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Brilliant.
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The division of Christianity is beginning, The Devil knows just what to do… right?
Lou
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If I could trust people like Mr Graham, I would be in church each week. But people like whom want to choose who goes to heaven, according to them, who is worthy of forgiveness, etc. all the while he lives in a big lavish home, I am sure he drives a Hyundai..lol, on his way to meet with Donald Trump, even though he doesn’t want his non politically affiliated church, taxed!! I am so sick of the hypocrisy!
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Well said, Peter. I couldn’t have said it better. Flying fruitcake, that’s a good One! I usually say I don’t care about a flying fart in space! I heard it in a movie, I didn’t make it up. I like fruitcake, sounds better.
tRump is a disgrace to our nation, the world and all humanity. I pray every day our beloved country survives this excuse of a man and his billionaire cohorts running our country. It won’t be easy but he will come down. If anything karma will catch up with him in this life or the next. He will be punished for his inhumane acts. God sees everything and God does not sleep.
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Wow! A good bit of a judgmental attitude here and no forgiveness to be seen for the president. I believe the people who on religious grounds would prefer not to participate in a gay wedding ceremony are willing to sell food any other time to them. They just don’t want to be run out of business which is so often what the goal is in the first place when they know they could find another bakery that would comply. I think we all agree feeding the hungry and loving all sinners is what we are told to do. Jesus may not have asked the questions to those around him as you stated but he also told many to “go and sin no more”. Very disrespectful to Mr. Graham, Peter.
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you come across as arrogant and envious and somewhat less than accurate
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I’m not a religious person.(Discussion for another time) But, this conversation has touched me deeply. Thanks very much, Pastor Peter! I hope one day I can meet you.
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It’s my opinion that Mr. Graham does not follow the same path of his father whom I loved and respect and who follows the path of Our Father.
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This is absolutely amazing!! Thank you.Pastor Peter.
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Horrible article. Implying Franklin Graham doesn’t know what he’s talking about is not a compelling argument. Stop the ad hominem attacks.
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There is a lot of meat heat to think about and some points o just agree with
Where ou lose it brother is the unnecessary condescending tone which is not Biblical
Secondly you cannot resist using your small church platform as martyrdom rather than trie humility
Bro Peter clean this up and it will have spiritual legs
Mike
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Dear Peter: I am in TOTAL AGREEMENT with you. I myself have been asking “What is going on with SO many of the men of God that I ONCE admired?
Many of them have gotten so involved with POLITICS that they seem to have forgotten what the Word of God tells us about how to “LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS WE LOVE OURSELVES.
They would rather STAND against God’s COMMANDMENTS than to PREACH the Gospel. How are you going to lead the lost to Salvation by preaching that which is CONTRARY to God’s Word? There WILL be MANY who will say, “IF THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ALL ABOUT, I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY.
I have seen many comments on
Facebook CONDEMNING
CHRISTIANITY for this very reason. God can NOT be pleased with these so-called men of God.
I thank you for your dedication to preaching the REAL Word of God. God bless you and ALL of those lost souls that you lead to God’s SAVING GRACE.
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Love this! I can’t find it in myself to go to church anymore because of all the So-called Christians who voted for Trump. Why bother going when they vote to cut all the programs to help the disadvantaged so they can feed their greed. I feel your exact sentiments Pastor Peter…
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Peter he who is without sin cast the first stone that includes small church Paster as well as mega church Pasters . Even Peter who you so able quoted denied Christ 3 times as he was being illegal accused . Yet Christ forgave Peter. You seem to have a personal dislike of the current administration that your right under the law. But it’s a sin to condemn men like Franklin Graham because the Bible states we should not condem any man who teaches the word.
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Thank you sir , for your clarifying , comforting and authentic reply . My faith in good humanbeings reaffirmed . 🙏🏽Thank you
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THANK YOU. I am sick of other Christians claiming they’re “persecuted.” We are not persecuted until someone stands in front of our church doors and prevents us from entering, forbids celebrations of religious holidays and confiscates Bibles. I’m 53, and not once has anyone prevented me from attending worship services, and nobody ever tried to take away my Bible – even when I took it to school to read during lunch.
These Christians scream persecution when they are prevented from enforcing their beliefs onto everyone else, including those who don’t share their faith. That’s not persecution to them – it’s persecution BY them. Time to learn the difference, folks.
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Thank you for speaking the truth. For me personally, as a gay man, the rhetoric coming from many of our politicians and Christian leaders have pushed me from the church. My Momma understood where I was coming from but told me to go to church, be with God, take what I needed and leave the rest. I’m not as strong as she. I don’t have the moxie to walk into that den filled with those who feel the way so many do about the LGBT community, and the homeless, and the sick and starving and those fleeing their home country. Maybe, I should rethink, and listen to what my Momma said. Thank you for your true Christian beliefs.
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Below is a response I wrote to a Christian who proclaimed that “Liberals” are persecuting Christians. Since this self-proclaimed victimhood is a modern article of faith (and sometimes I think it is wish fullfillment related to the false dogma that we are in the End Times, which requires that Christians will be persecuted), I received no answer. The person just ignored my response and continued stirring up hate and fear in fellow Christians.
“Is any liberal keeping you from going to church? No.
Is any liberal banning the Bible? No.
Is any liberal stopping you from standing on a street corner and giving sermons? No.
Is any liberal herding Christians into cattle cars to take them to death camps? No.
Is any liberal banning the discussion of Christianity on the many cable TV channels and radio networks devoted to Christianity? No.
Is any liberal demanding that Gideon Bibles be removed from all hotel rooms? No.
Is any liberal taking away the tax exempt status of churches, even when they directly go against the law and preach politics? No.
Is any liberal demanding that the expression “Merry Christmas” be banned? No.
Is any liberal demanding that religious displays on private property be banned? No.
Is any liberal saying that a school child cannot pray in private in school? No.
Is any liberal working to shut down private Christian Universities and parochial schools? No.
Do liberals fight for the United States Constitution and the equality for which it stands? YES!”
Seriously, if Jesus were here now, he would be a Liberal, not a right wing conservative filled with hate and fear.
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The need for power does not discriminate: it serves all religions and human beings of all sorts.
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Where is your church? I try daily to understand my fellow Christians. My Bible says; we should feed the poor; comfort the sick; visit the prisons.
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Sounds like a sanctimonious pretend Christian from one of the pretend Christian Churches. A real Christian would not post this letter but rather in love approach Dr Graham with your concerns. Sounds more like a pink pussy hat wearer to me
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SO True! (Monica)
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Well Peter, you have truly shown how you can twist the Bible to say anything you want. How exactly is refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple, who I’m certain have the money to pay for it, equivalent to not feeding the hungry, as Jesus commanded?
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Dear Pastor Olsen,
THANK YOU! As a Gay man who grew up Catholic (Catholic came first, I did not have the courage to come out until I was 30), I have been having a crisis of faith more so in today’s climate than ever.
You words are a comfort and a confirmation of my relationship with my faith, Jesus and religious leaders. I can’t begin to tell you the relief and joy I felt in reading your note to Rev. Graham, the sense of unity, love and compassion that you convey is welcoming to everyone. My only wish is that I could attend a service and meet you and your congregation.
I’m looking forward to reading your past blogs/posts and returning every day to continue my journey of faith with a positive and inclusive leader as you are. Consider me part of your online congregation.
Love and peace with God.
Thom
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I find Franklin Graham to be perversion, a false profit, a burlesque of his father’s legacy. I have yet to see him set an example of true humility for his followers. Instead, he is all about consolidating power like an American mullah. God knows he’s a fraud.
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If being forced to participate in a wedding that violates one’s most basic religious beliefs respecting marriage does not violate the Constitution’s guarantee that no law shall prevent a person’s free exercise of religion then what continues to remain uniquely guaranteed by that Constitutional phrase? Has “Religious Liberty” become a meaningless concept?
Believe it or not, Graham and those who agree with him, particularly those who have been and are being forced into bankruptcy for their religious beliefs, are raising a very legitimate issue respecting Religious Liberty that this article does not even attempt to address. Because this article does not even try to address the issue that it pretends to address, it is really just a silly, deceptive joke!
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Pastor Peter — – You have said it well ! Hope many will take it to heart! And shame on those with such hateful reply’s! But I guess we will always have those – –so , so – SAD!
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What a disrespectful letter! I appreciate Mr. Graham’s action in helping the Christans and non-Christians around the world. Peter, have you pushed your self from the computer long enough to do the same.
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A correction. Mother Emanuel Church in Charleston (SC) not Charlotte.
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Ephesians 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them….a person can tithe, feed the hungry, help the needy and this will not get them into heaven (by grace through faith will you be saved and will automatically do good works) Matthew 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’…..this does not say the government took care of the needy, sick, or hungry…it says You…..You the person….You the Church…………and the liberals syas it’s hate when we disagree….with some it is hate, but with a Christian it’s not…..I disagree with a same sex life style and when I tell someone this,it’s not out of hate,but love, for it is an abomination unto God and I want them right with God……..if I hated them, I would remain silent
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I am glad to be an Atheist .
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Thank you Pastor Peter. God will deal with Trump and his wife. We can only pray that it will happen soon…….
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I think this pastor Peter , proves gimself as a self righteous and thinks that his ministry is only doing God’s work . Peter , if you have been preaching the gospel of good news for decades why only 3O in your congregation .
Gospel of Jesus Christ if preached and lives will draw many to his kingdom and to plant many more churches all over .
Peter I now know your problem . Try and get some counsel and step down . Let the person in your congregation who is capable of preaching let him do it . You have been stumbling block for such people – dos you know how many people in that little assembly is hurt because of you .
Clean your act before you accuse another pastor who is contributing the voice of Christians to the rulers .
I know that you would have loved the crooked Hilary who promotes all evil Including homosexualism, killing the unborn , corruption as your ideals . In my bible these are evil .
Read your bible and understand or get disciples by a true pastor .
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Your comments are a perfect example of Proverbs 6:19. But then its clear that your priorities are scoring cheap political points…. not the furthering the interests of Christ.
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You feed those that come to your door, do you? That’s good. But what about going, seeking, those that need your help? You know, like an organization called Samaritans Purse does? Heard of it? It is run by a man named Franklin Graham.
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Wonderful wonderful message to a man who seems more political than Godly.
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I wish I had the time and energy to pick you apart the way you oh so richly deserve. But I don’t. So I will simply comment on how disappointing I find it that I suppose it man of God would stoop to snidely suggesting that Franklin Graham read his Bible. I have no idea how much time he spends reading his Bible, but it is obvious from what you wrote that he knows what’s in it a lot better than you do.
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By religious freedoms, Franklin is referring to the lack of them via president Obama’s audits via the IRS to intimidate and influence churches to keep their mouths shut about many of his un-Christian policies (transgender bathrooms, same sex marriage, abortions to name a couple).
Trump is allowing churches to speak more specifically on politicians and political issues without risk losing our 501c3 status.
This means you can slander Trump all you want from your pulpit and you aren’t at risk of losing your tax free status, unlike what president Obama was pushing for. Hooray.
Samaritan’s purse does more for orphans, widows and refugees than any other Christian organization, not just that but he does it with the Gospel at the center of it all, that’s right they are told that there’s a God in Heaven who loves them and sent his Son to die for their sins.
Haters ‘gonna hate.
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Hmm, lot of good points made by the Pastor but perhaps the insulting innuendos and judgments (some of which might not be appropriate for us mortals to make) could have been avoided.
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The pastor uses selective scripture for his argument. I believe in, love the sinner, hate the sin. However, I do not agree the government, at whatever level, has the right to transcend ones freedom of religion and fine them for exercising their freedom of speech. One couple practices a sinful life and is rewarded. The other has their faith questioned while practicing the values and morals they identify with and are punished.
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Dear Pete,
You don’t mind me calling you Pete after all this is just bro to bro. You’re not judgemental are you? After all, that’s in the Bible too. Thanks
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I really enjoyed reading this column. As a small time preacher and big time student of Bible studies I have to completely agree but I believe these megachurch pastors are the False Prophets that come to decieve many. If we want God to Bless our country we must get back to worshipping Him in the Spirit and Truth. Yes that is also in the BIBLE.
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Pastor. You may not be persecuted now. But they only treat you well because you allow them to follow their ungodly ways. Sadly, I am reminded of the Niemoller piece. There will come a time that they will come for you too. Say what you want about Franklin Graham his group is putting doctors in a field hospital on the front line in Iraq to help the people. He spends time there also.
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Thank you, Pastor Peter. As someone who’s been traumatized by “Church Folks” and their misrepresentation of Christ, I thank you. Just simply, thank you. May god comrojuwnto bless and keep you in all your ways. I’m
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Thank you Pastor Peter for that wonderful letter bravo God loves you I love that I self the neighbor spread the love it’s all about the love you will be judged later when you go meet our father God bless you and thank you
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Thank you very, very much for writing this.
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I love this story. I would go to this pastor’s small church as he calls it.
Thank you so much for sharing.
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Christian persecution is alive and well all over this country. Maybe you aren’t experiencing it in your local church, but if you go to a university, deal with local government, try to open a business, etc. you will see it in action if you dare to have God be part of it. Worldwide, Christians are being slaughtered by the thousands while nobody hardly mentions it. The intolerance of anything Christian in academia or the marketplace is where Germany started with the Jews. If we sit back and don’t admit it is happening, we are going to wake up one day and find that we are in the same boat they were. TV, movies and government demean and misrepresent the Christian community in every way they can. I am 80 and I know what this country was like at one time and I see where it is going now. It is sad.
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Amen and Amen! Preach on…we are so busy judging each other and trying to prove we’re right that we’ve lost the basics. LOVE.THIS.MESSAGE.
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Thank you, Peter! You got it correct! God Bless and keep you!👏👏👏😊
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I appreciate your concerns, but why belittle Franklin Graham with sentences like: “As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.).” That doesn’t help hit your point as someone engaging in a critique of someone else’s views.
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I totally agree with this pastor. The sermons I heard Billy Graham deliver focused on God’s love for all humankind…not just the ones who looked or loved or dressed like me. Franklin is too political and seems to have forgotten about the concept of separation of church and state
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I find several things I disagree with you Peter, but the main one is health care is a privilege you pay for not a right, we are not a socialist healthcare country. If you want a socialist healthcare system I suggest you move to England and ask them how they like there system of waiting for months to be seen or treated.
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Yes. We must keep poor people from getting healthcare.
I am embarrassed for you, Dorene. Providing healthcare has nothing to do with politics. Ask Jesus!
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Just because healthcare is not a right currently doesn’t mean it couldn’t be. The sad part is that it’s the supposedly Godless left who want to ensure healthcare for all while the supposedly Christian right who are called to care for the poor and sick who fight against it. I’m sick of the argument that we are only called to give of our own accord. We choose what our society is. I can’t imagine Jesus being like “so you fought against ensuring everyone in the country had access to healthcare, but you donated a few dollar to a charity? Yeah, cool, that’s exactly what I meant”. There are already a number of socialist programs in this country, many of which the right are huge fans of such as the military and the police force, so I’m not sure why so many insist on drawing the line at healthcare.
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Pastor, your sarcasm is quite offensive to many of us who see our freedoms being eroded by the constant dripping of the post-modern relativistic thinking that has infiltrated most of the church… whether large or small congregations. If your discernment is so poor as to not recognize the cascading immorality and humanism attacking the Church not only in other parts of the world…. but right here under our noses… than I do fear for your sheep! Your disdain for Rev Graham is unwarranted, unkind and certainly not helpful to the body.
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Yup…..quite judgmental, Pastor Pete.
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Please list the freedoms that are being eroded. And I’d like to understand how you weigh them against the absolute direction from Jesus to love your neighbor as yourself, to feed the poor, to care for the sick, etc. I am honestly perplexed by this.
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Christians are losing the freedom to not participate in an event which violates their religious beliefs. This is exactly what happened here. And as for helping the poor, the sick, the needy, I know of no other Christian who has done more of this than Franklin Graham. Through his ministry people in dire need all over the world — millions of hungry, sick, displaced, poor, etc– have been helped.
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Lisa, Religious Liberty consists of just this: Government is constrained from forcing anyone to participate in any activity that violates their conscientiously held religious beliefs so long as exercising these rights does not prevent someone else from exercising any comparable right. Get it?
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This is a case where the person talking about ‘freedom’ is actually talking about power. Churches of a certain branch of Protestantism no longer have the power they once had and they mistake that for losing their freedom.
When you are used to privilege equality feels like oppression.
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You are not being persecuted when kept from persecuting others. You are free to worship as you wish in this country, but you ARE NOT allowed to tell others how to live based on your religion. This country was FOUNDED on this and it is in the first amendment of our great constitution. I hate that you follow a twisted, sick version of this belief. Praying that you can find REAL Christianity. SAD
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Thank you Pastor. The Bible has been forgotten about in all the rush to get on the publicity coat tails of trump
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Great letter, Peter. I also am concerned with the faux persecution of Christians. There has never! in the history of our nation been a persecution of Christians. As a lapsed christian, I think churches have spent way too much involved in politics. This needs to end
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Bob Neave This letter is just pastor to pastor,Why is the letter on Facebook?Peter are you a Far Left Democrat? Did you wright a similar pastor to pastor letter to Reverent Wright the pastor of Obama when Obama professed to be a Christian in this racist church?I believe Rev.Franklin Graham preaches,John 3:16-17 all the time and P.Trump is a Christian,plus a God loving Constitutionalist.I can’t say the same for Rev.Wright and Obama.Christians in America Have been persecuted every time they say,I like Jesus,when God was removed from schools in 1972, when christian truths in Gen.1 were rejected in favor of evelution and I mite add a round spinning earth.
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Thanks so much for writing this! I hope he reads it and the voters he influenced
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Thank you so very much for this letter. Yours is the Christianity that I recognize, cherish, and choose as the guide for my life. I pray that Rev. Graham has the humility and grace to recognize the wisdom of your insights and the purity of the faith that you preach. This is admittedly sarcastic in parts, but ultimately loving in its presentation of the gospel tradition. Please pray for all of those of us who do not have the joy of belonging to a congregation led by a minister like you, but that try to live our lives by the tenets that we learned so long ago and that you remind us of so simply and cogently.
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Sorry. But Franklin Graham is right… this guy is not
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No one is dying in this country for what they believe. That is being persecuted not that petty mess Graham was talking about.
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How kind of you to assert your opinion as fact, the world needs more of that. Keep up the good work.
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Being persecuted is dying for what you believe in and no one is dying in this country for the God they serve. Certainly not Christians. That was ridiculous statement but I guess the love they neighbor doesn’t mean anything anymore
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Short, sweet and a correct comment. God bless the author but I just disagree with the premise of his article.
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Yeah, I don’t care much for the poor or hungry either. Give Franklin more money.
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Jesus is right. Period.
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I am sorry that you are so misguided and could not see the wisdom of the small town pastor.
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Would you care to elaborate? How is Franklin Graham right and Peter wrong?
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~ JESUS THE COMMODITY ~
~ As Seen On TV ~ Televangelists, selling Jesus by the gram. Mega-churches ministered by evil men seeking wealth and power, deceiving those seeking spiritual guidance. Stealing their wages, stealing their souls and telling them how they want them to vote. All in the name of Jesus. ~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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You have a right to your opinion unless you have some kind of proof that he is right. God Bless and guide you.
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Not a chance . Did you read the scriptures which this Pastor quoted? Feed the hungry?
Love your neighbor as yourself? Franklin Graham does not preach love but arrogance. He is not half the man his father was as a preacher or as a human being.
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I disagree. But then, I grew up in one of the small ❤ churches ❤ this "guy's" name is Peter btw
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no, graham is NOT right. not if you are talking about what it says in the bible. not if you are talking about the whitehouse.
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You must be some kind of alleged Christian to think Franklin Graham is right. Those are not the teachings I received! Peter said it correctly!
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For you out of fear maybe but I’d rather be gay than on Graham’s side. I’d rather be anything but on the side of bigotry & hate mongering! Graham spews hate in everything he does. I don’t know where he got GOD but his GOD is nothing like mine. Mine is kind, loving & understanding. What he asks of you is not to hate!
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Your opinion, not mine or millions of true Americans who truly believe that Christianity involves how we treat those who are at the bottom of society’s economic ladder, as well as the outcast and downtrodden (including those whose sexual orientation isn’t what we necessarily espouse).
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How is he right? Prove your point. It saddens me that so many choose to follow blindly and not question. There is NOTHING Godly about Donald Trump. This pastor wrote a letter filled with the best of what Christianity teaches us. It teaches us to question and to be compassionate and just. Mostly, we don’t get to play God- we don’t get to judge others.
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Yeah, you’ve got it down, Jesus did say hate your neighbor and follow known hypocrites.
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Sorry, but you have been duped! If you think Frank is right, then I pray that you find someone who can show you the real meaning of Christianiy because you’re getting a twisted, warped version from the False Prophet, Frankie
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How so? This man puts together an incredibly well-thought, articulate piece and talks about love toward all and even presents proof with Bible verses…and, you say he’s wrong? Prove it.
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Thanks for your opinion. We’ll be in touch.
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Prove it.
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Why is he right? Because he’s famous? Because he says so? Because when God puts world leaders in place then automatically they are Christians and good people? Because starting with the Old Testament to present day, there have been more evil world rulers than can be counted.It doesn’t mean God is wrong. It does mean we don’t know what He is doing. A child can see that Trump is not a good man.
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My God doesnt teach what we are being subjected. I agree with this small church pastor. I cannot relate our current president in anyway as practicing a Christian life. I dont think Billy Graham would either. I am not worrying about what Franklin thinks!
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You will know which one is really right when you read and study God’s word. Grahams got bit by the love of money and Trump before he ever started campaigning for president. I still can’t believe this man became president. Oh wait! He had another country getting him elected.
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Put down your crack pipe. Graham is a pandering snake oil salesman whom
Jesus would have cast out of the Temple. There is nothing Christ-like in
Graham’s words or his teachings. He has a heart full of hate and judgment. His brand of “Christianity” is far removed from what Jesus stood for. May God have mercy on him in the end.
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you wish — apparently more than you pray or read scripture mr bowel! Nope Graham is a reprobate in the faith his father is sickened!
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You are so right! Dr. Graham practices what he preaches and is not the giveaway boy these other churches are. He knows what the Bible really states and if you can’t accept the whole Bible as truth you are not a Christian. You are a buffet, Christian.
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You’re right, “this guy” used facts, to his own folly. Your immunity to facts is quite impressive. Carry on.
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Of course you, #1, bhowel03216, are RIGHT, not CORRECT, but RIGHT !!!!! You poor mistreated Christians, your torture is worse than what Jesus went through….RIGHT? Did Jesus tell you to cry about your tough life or to live like a good person and not JUDGE ALL OTHERS? Judgment is HIS, not YOURS and your kind….the wee babies that are hypocrites….. Love to all……….
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Right about what, in what ways, and why? This was a fairly lengthy rebuttal to a message that was in itself complex; they’re both multifaceted and cover a number of interlinked but ultimately independent issues. Which ones are Franklin right about and Peter wrong? Are you working off some “more than half” standard? I hope you’re not implying literally everything, I feel like rubber stamping either speaker as 100% on or off base is blindly agreeing more than considering the points. Whatever talking points you feel Franklin Graham was closer to the mark with, why? What is your justification for thinking one conclusion was so much stronger you actually qualified it as fact rather than your opinion or belief? Do you care to offer some comment or rationale to qualify your very objectively stated take on the debate as anything more than your subjective opinion? Or maybe admit that’s all your take is if not?
Honestly this debate is complex and I can see where both sides are coming from on most of the talking points… to a extent I didn’t disagree with any of either ones statements to the degree I disapprove of your response. Its a really cheap and lazy thing to just point one way, say “winner”, mic drop, and walk away from the discussion. Keep it to “I agree with X” if you’re going to be that lazy about it. You aren’t contributing to discourse in any sense other than it’s rapid erosion with a comment like that.
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I agree, this guy is clearly a Christian and all that love your enemy, give up your wealth. That’s plain socialistic BS. Frank’s for the anti-Christ.
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Enlighten me. What makes Mr. Graham right? What makes this guy wrong? Please give me evidence that God would stand behind.
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For starters, the pastor here has misrepresented the facts of the case. The couple in question did not refuse service because the clients were homosexual. They refused because it was for an event which violated their religious beliefs. There is a difference. The pastor either does not understand this or is being disingenuous (or worse) in basing his arguments on this straw man.
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Your comment would have more meaning if you addressed the concerns raised by the author.
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Please support your comment with Scripture…. The author supported his position very clearly
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Dear Jesus, We pray your grace & mercy over this person. Fill him with your Holy Spirit. We know you do not want us to act like the pharisees. Help us to look at your Holy word in whole & not pull out verses that fit what makes our life easiest. Help all of us to look at the board in our own eye. Heal him of the fear that drives this comment. Help bind us together. Please forgive this person & us. Amen
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““If [he has] spoken wrongly, bear witness of the wrong; but if rightly, why do you strike [him]?” (based on John 18:23)
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Unless, of course, you are a follower of Christ. There’s hate and there’s love. Take your pick.
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Franklin Graham has shown more love to more people than this pastor could ever dream of. Through Franklin’s ministry of Samaritan’s Purse, poor and needy people all over the world have been blessed with food, clothing, medical care, and other gifts of love. To say that Franklin Graham is guilty of not loving people is like saying Mother Teresa is guilty of neglecting the poor people of Calcutta.
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Wow…how sad are you
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Franklin Graham is correct. The author of this article is wrong. The injunction to obey the Law is not absolute. If it were, then Shadrach, Meshach and Abednigo would have been in the wrong since they refused to worship the Golden image — which was commanded by the King — because that would have violated the First commandment that we are to worship only God. Daniel, as well, would have been wrong, since he prayed to God in violation of the law of the land. The early church were commanded not to preach the Gospel, but they continued, stating clearly: “We ought to obey God rather than man”! Similarly, the early believers did not obey the law of the Roman empire which required everyone to say that “Jesus is Lord”. These Christians knew that Jesus is Lord, and could not obey this law. Many were prepared to pay the ultimate price to stand up for what is right!. Similarly, today in many countries, such as North Korea it is illegal to worship Jesus. Are the Christian believers in these countries supposed to obey that law?
For sure, Christians are to obey the law of the land. But if that law forces us to engage in activities which are evil, or to worship other gods, or to participate in activities which violate God’s moral law, then we should, as the early apostles taught us: “obey God, rather than man!
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No, sir…Apparently you don’t read well…you dispute what is IN THE BIBLE??? I fail to see how you all support his attitude of hate and fear, and Mr. Graham spreads it. It makes me so sad to see how people have such hatred whe I believe it is NOT what God intended!!
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May you never be judged as Graham and his so-called Christian ilk judge others friend.
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Perhaps it’s because this guy is in a small town he’s not experiencing what some of us are. We are to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice, so I rejoice with him, but weep with those who are already feeling the pinch.
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Your arguments are compelling.
Have you even read your bible?
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only in your craziest delusions
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Sorry but your guy is wrong. Read again the litany of filth and injustice his White House friend has initiated.
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Why is franklin right. The bible is the word of God, explan that based on the word. People often go from one extreme to another.
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😍🙏🏼👍
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I am so happy someone from the Christian community has finally called out “reverend” Graham on his hypocrisy! I have been nipping at his heels on FB for months! I see nothing reflective of God’s word in franklin and his speech. He is too similar to and chummy with trump for my comfort! He has failed to chastise trump even tho his policies are oppressive to the poor and needy! He literally told us to “get over it and support the president!” He also seems unbothered by the fact that the RNC has declared mr trump “the new king!” Evidently he’s the one the wise men were referring to and not Christ! I have not gotten over that since Dec 2016! franklin has become even more dangerous now in his “Christian persecution” and “all Muslim is terrible” message by joining forces with fox news hate-monger greta vansustern. I am 💯 % a believer in Christ but in no way am I persecuted! Continue to be steadfast in your work, Pastor! May God open up the windows of Heaven on you and your congregation!
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Please dig a little deeper.
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I feel like what you said is exactly what I have been feeling and saying to FG on FB also… thank you! and a great BIG THANK YOU to Pastor Peter
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Love is Love is Love. There are no conditions. None. Stop making them people. Please.
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~ The Separation Of Church And Hate:
There is a good reason why Church and State must always remain separate. Let’s get something straight, right from the start: A theocratic state is not a free state, and never will be. I’m sure it was never Jesus’ intention nor was it His will that anyone should be dominated in His name, the name of Christ. That is the will of men. To be accurate, the concept in itself is anti-Christian. You can only follow Christ by choice, not by legislation.
It seems some people are more intent on casting stones at perceived sinners than propagating the love of Christ. ~ “Above all else, I command you love one another”. ~ This was the message that Jesus preached, and as far as I can see, the worth of a soul will only be measured as such. But I can assure you of one thing, when your time of judgment comes, you won’t be asked to recite scripture, but rather, if anything, the question will be: Did you get the message and live by it?
For all of you people out there on the religious right, you should try to remember that looking for sins to condemn, and people to persecute in the name of God, is simply Satan’s way of keeping you from seeing what is good and praiseworthy. It’s Satan’s favorite means of deceit; getting people to hate and kill each other in the name of God and Christ Jesus. Twisting scripture to incite hatred and division.
Understand this; that by doing so, you are defaming the name of Christ, associating Jesus with bigotry and hate. Jesus was never cursed with these feelings, these sins that you commit in His name. It’s widely agreed that He rose above it all, and to use His name for the justification of spreading contempt and hatred for anyone is true heresy. It isn’t Pro-Christ by any means, but clearly Anti-Christ.
*******************************************************************
~ It doesn’t really seem to matter at this point if you believe in God and Christ or not. What we have are Anti-Christians, the antithesis of the persona Jesus, and they are attempting, through legislation, to declare America to be a theocratic state and nation, legitimizing discrimination under the false guise of “religious freedom”. If you’re not one of the “chosen” you’re fair game for persecution, oppression and abuse. It’s a perfect “us” and “them” scenario. If you express opposing views to the “Order” or you’re a non-believer, or in any way perceived as a “sinner”, they’ll be coming for you.
~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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Thank you.
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Neither you or Graham has much idea what Christianity is all about.
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ALL…ALL…of these lies are coming from FOX NEWS…things in America for Christians have not changed in 200 years…
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Well you certainly are entitled to your opinion but God called Trump for MANY reasons just like he did David and Soloman and Peter and …. so many others who weren’t even close to being Godly. Have you read that or did you gloss over? He’s done exactly what I wanted him to do. Put a conservative into the Supreme Court so that I can die knowing the next generation may not be better than the worthless generation rioting and persecuting Christians today but it won’t be worse. Yes, Christians worldwide are being persecuted, 90,000 killed just last year MOST by Muslims, yep politically incorrect but true. In the US they do it with constant belittling, indoctrination in schools where they have become pseudo parents. Just like the Nazis did. I suggest you take a look at some history books and make your own comparison. Nazis, National Socialist Party BTW, conquered Germany and Austria by saying everyone was now equal… Startled I was too. Then they took over the schools offering 24hr care so that they were able to indoctrinate the youth so fully people were afraid of their own children. Trump is big bold and has a giant ego and is extremely crude. So was St Peter before Christ got him. He also has a big heart and if you didn’t notice the Cult of the Left made his SON give up his charity with St Judes depriving the hospital of the multi-millions the Trumps have gotten them so they can help indigent families with children who have cancer. I suggest you take a GOOD HARD LOOK AT THE LOG IN YOUR EYE.
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totally agree with you bhowel103216
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Restored my faith in what Christianity should be, you have.
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Dear Pete,
I find this whole article offensive and condescending. I can see you think you have all the answers….Reverend Franklin Graham is not afraid to say what may not be popular, but what he thinks is right. You can disagree with him and that is fine. As far as the following the rules like everyone else, that is so not what he was talking about. He was talking about not having to go along with something that goes against your religious convictions. President Trump is standing up for that. A Catholic hospital not having to provide abortion pills, for example. As for the baker, personally I would have made the cake- but the point is they explained why to the gay couple and told them there was a baker down the street who would gladly do it. They were fined to the point of having their business go down he tubes- to equate that with feeding the poor is ridiculous..
I get it you are another Trump hater… On a hot mic many years ago- he jokingly talked to dirty to another man in what he thought was a private conversation. He owned up to that, apologized for it and said he was deeply ashamed. I guess ole “Pete” does not believe in forgiveness. Also isn’t there something in the bible about “he who is without sin throw the first stone”? Have at it Pete!!
I do not know if you realize Pete, but a lot of people God used for his glory were very flawed human beings.
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Franklin Graham is no “reverend” or man of God and you definitely aren’t Christian nor an American.
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Exactly. From a 51 year old female. I wonder how many “Christian” men degrading Trump for his comment, secretly struggle with porn and other addictions. It is rampid.
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I agree with what you said! Pete was disrespectful to a point! People need to see. How he has reached out to the whole world! He has done the shoe box ministry for poverty stricken regions at Christmas for many years! He helped get a portable hospital to the Mosel area to help women and children being injured in war! He’s been in Iraq recently when several churches were bombed out! He along with Greta helped get Sampson a sweet African boy who had a misshaped face go the the Mayo Clinic to get his face reshape and I saw a picture of him the other day and it is a miraculous change! He always goes to disaster areas and brings supplies and people to help rebuild! I could go on and on! I’m so thankful for what he does for the Lord around the world! May God continue to bless his ministry!
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Jana. You are delusional. You lost all simblance of a rational person when you mentioned “abortion pills” (which don’t actually exist in reality, only in the minds of fearful religious crazies. I’m sure you are referring to the morning after pill, which I will use little words to explain: this pill doesn’t end pregnancy. It stops the egg (that’s from the woman) and the sperm (that’s from the man) from becoming a team. It “blocks” the pregnancy from taking place. No fetus is involved.) I give you a pass for your ignorance because clearly, you just believe blindly what you’ve been told.
Your rights aren’t being persecuted. Your ability to persecute others hiding beneath the umbrella of “religious freedom,” IS in serious trouble though, and you are obviously shaking in your shoes. Are you going to be ok when you go to a grocery store and have to wait in line 6 times because the Jewish cashier can’t sell you porkchops or shrimp, the Muslim won’t be able to sell you the bacon, the Hindu is offended you would use a cow for hamburger meat, and the atheist doesn’t want you in his line at all because Helping you forces them to do something they believe is wrong? No, you will cry to anyone who will hear about how “christians are under attack because all these other groups are getting special rights!” They aren’t special rights, they would be the exact same rights you don’t question having. Just like if any of these people can’t perform their jobs, they shouldn’t be holding that position. A baker needs to be the same. Your job is to bake and sell cakes, not sit high and mighty and deem who’s worthy of your products.
This article wasn’t even about politics. It was about how religious leaders should stay out of politics. Sadly, your simple brain couldn’t even pick up on that nuance before you were clutching your pearls and writing out you rambling rebuttal and defending President Trump. In the words of your savior president: SAD.
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Thank you. I have been calling myself a Deist because of all the hate speak coming from the so called “Christians”. In my area. I have called out a local “Minister” that I work with for speaking lies. He said he would say what he wants when he wants and I told him that I will call him out every time. I went to a Catholic school and a Quaker College. I have urged him to review Matthew again.
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I agree.
Rev Keith Wright
Co-founder and president,
The United Deist Church
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Calling yourself a Deist is the only reasonable choice. Christians are not what we were taught they are. THis author cherry-picks the Bible to find good; Frank cherry-picks the Bible to find hate. Both are cherry picking from a deeply flawed book. Better to move beyond such superstition.
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Awesome letter, my feelings exactly, how can we say that we are a Christian nation and then stop funding meals on wheels cost each American .43 cents per year, food stamps 36.00 per year ,3 .00 per month,.10 cents a day to make sure that people (Americans) don’t go hungry, let’s walk the walk, love is the true power of God, everything else just falls short.
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Teach! !
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This is nothing less than a dishonest snarly leftist anti Trump diatribe presented as a pastoral admonition !
He uses the Biblical name Peter, but no last name. What church, what denomination, where is his church ??? Any legitimate pastor would be proud to list his church and credentials. We know who ‘Frank’ Is. who the hell is this guy ???
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It shouldn’t matter what Peter’s last name is…every word he wrote was honest and heartfelt. I can’t say that about the so called champion in the White House.
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Mr Knight, the website you are commenting on has tabs at the top of the page where you can read about Rev Peter Olsen and his church. I believe that will answer your important questions.
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With anger like yours, why would anyone give a last name? And please do review the gospels, it will do your heart and soul good.
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You’re delusional, and not a nice person.
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Mr. Knight, please click on the “Pastor Olsen” tab near the top of the page. You are on his website after all, location, phone number, denomination are all listed in the “Contact us” page. Hope this helps you figure out “who the hell” this guy is.
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Pastor Peter Olsen of Trinity Lutheran Church (ELCA) in Bogota, NJ. A few clicks and you’d find out.
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I took it as highlighting of the hypocrisy of many USArian religious corporations which have incredible monetary wealth, pay no tax, and then attempt to dictate how the country should be run – in Islam that is called Sharia Law!
If you care to click on the ‘About Us’ tab at the start of the page, you’ll find this: https://revolsen.com/pastor-olsen/ details of the Pastor’s name community, qualifications, family etc.
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Jesus didn’t have a “church”. He spoke in the streets, in fields, in marketplaces or anywhere people gathered, so in your definition, he was not a legitimate pastor, because he didn’t have “credentials”. But God loves hypocrites too.
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He is…Rev. Peter Olsen, Pastor at Trinity Lutheran Church, Bogoto, NJ. Click Contact Us above.
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What bits aren’t true?
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Hi, I too did not know who Peter was…so I looked at the tagline for the piece…it says revolsen.com…so I put that info in my search bar and lo and behold…now I know. You were so quick to discredit the Reverend you must have forgotten to try that. If you still want to know, try it…keyword revolsen.com. Have a blessed day.😁😁
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His name is Pastor Peter Olsen. His church is Trinity Evangelical Lutheran Church. He is a graduate of Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.
If you would have engaged your brain that God gave you and performed 5 minutes of research you would have found this information. However, you decided to engage your mouth first. How ignorant was that choice?
Typical for a Trump supporter.
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Who cares who the “guy” is? It’s the message, not the messenger. Don’t deflect from the issues by using red herrings to do anything BUT look at what’s being said. If you disagree, then try using the scriptures or some other information to dispute the claims made by “this guy”. Learn to have an honest discussion with people who have different opinions from your own. Both you and they may learn something.
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Bill, this is just a hunch, but if you look at his URL, revolsen.com, it would be a good guess that his name is Peter Olsen. I would also guess that he withheld the name of his church to protect it from people reacting to his essay with less than Christian motivation. I also have to agree with him. The trumped up fear of fake persecution Reverend Graham is fomenting is very un-Christian. Our’s is not a religion of fear and mistrust, but love and courage. The Christians the Romans fed to the lions in the Colosseum knew real persecution, and courage. Those who want to discriminate against gays and others because they feel it is their Christian right are the ones who have strayed from the Word of Christ.
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Who cares who this guy is? It’s what he’s said that matters. Perhaps you could refute the specifics of what he said and detail where you consider he’s wrong.
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He’s probably Pastor Peter Olsen the pastor of the church on whose website you currently are on…
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Evidently, he is a real Christian. Otherwose, he wouldn’t be calling out sin and being prophetic. So, perhaps you can even call him “Apostle Peter.” Just an idea… also: read your Bible!
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I believe the “Peter” that wrote this was Pastor Olsen. You can read his bio above and all his credentials are there.
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That’s a logical fallacy. Just because you believe something to be written by a “leftist” doesn’t mean it’s untrue. Secondly, if you would look around the site this piece is posted on, you would know that Peter is Pastor Peter Olsen of the Trinity Lutheran Church. Maybe look at things with a little less judgement, a little more of an open mind before you make up your mind next time.
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And, you call yourself a Christian? Wow. You sound angry and bitter.
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So, in order to be credible, a pastor must be famous? That explains why your eyes are blinded to the truth about Trump.
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It took me a few minutes of research to find Peter’s church and full name (which by the way are not the point of his letter.) If you’re really interested, I suggest you do the same. Psst…Google is your friend.
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Someone who is speaking the truth.
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I like the pastors message to F.Graham and I love the little churches they’re for real even in the Baptist community!I don’t agree with everything President Donald Trump does or says but he was a better choice than Hillary R.Clintons lying tongue,and evil ways.This woman should be behind bars!The Government is so poisoned that it should be 100% redone and started fresh !President Obama did a lot of underhanded stuff behind Americans backs while everybody’s working so hard,not paying attention to his doings!Im an independent voter I vote for whom ever will run this America as it should be and it wasn’t Hillary!Eight years of President Obama was hurtful enough.Not one country thought that man?had any fight in him.President Obama let all counteries run all over him!If you think they’re laughing at President Trump,ha look again it’s nothing new it’s been happening the past 8 yrs and 4 months !Nothing new!Even if President Trump gets impeached ( by the way he’s done nothing to impeach for)Mike Pence will take office so no big deal he’s a stand up man!Hiw many of you Christians believe in abortion like Hillary and President Obama do?Full term abortions people ?But you were willing to put her in office ?Im glad the pastor mentioned the cake ordeal with gay marriages!Although I donot believe in gay marriages myself, I do not believe in discrimination among anyone.The bible says we’re to love not discrimination!If anybody that takes the time to romp on President Trump at least take the time to look at how many ppl he’s also helped.Trump gave free rent to a black woman that was homeless in Trump towers,stop looking at his past and if you’re a good Christian look at the changes he’s made for himself..All people have Good and not so good ..yes even Obama…and Hillary 😂Just kidding I just want the best for America and if you haven’t read about what the past White House leader was up to meaning the new world order.Please do cause they’re still doing their best to push it !!!🇺🇸🇺🇸I believe this so called letter was written by a person that hates Trump why didn’t he give his churches name or his?Sounds fishy to me ?
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Mate, because of people exactly like you. He would like to protect his family and congregation from judgmental biggots like yourself. Think long and hard about Jesus’ teachings and you’ll find Mr. Graham conveniently ignores most of them. I will pray for your salvation. Good day.
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Seems to me that “this guy”, no matter where he pastors (or even *if* he pastors) is someone who knows his Bible and understands the words of Jesus as described in said Bible. The only “hate” speech Jesus ever put forward was against the self-righteous, lying Jewish leaders of his day. They had a lot to say, too, that sounded a lot like the things Mr. Graham says. Nothing Mr. Graham says sounds anything at all like the things Jesus told us to say. And if you are going to disagree, then point me to the scripture(s) to show me the error of my ways.
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Perhaps he’s someone that just doesn’t want to expose his congregation and family to the hate that will enevitably follow an open letter like this? That’s pretty reasonable. It doesn’t take a lot of digging to see that death threats, hate mail, and unwanted scrutiny of a congregation that didn’t write this letter is what usually follows.
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Jordan. If that were the case, the pastor would have done what he should have done in the first place — follow the biblical procedure explained in Matthew 18 for resolving conflicts. He would have first written a private letter to Franklin, expressing his concerns. Instead, he obviously wanted to publicly excoriate this man of God, and posted this article public before hearing the truth directly from the person he is falsely accusing.
Someone should explain to this pastor that the job position of “accuser of the brethren” has already been filled.
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He is a true Christian,following the teaching of the Bible
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Is the writer right? Why? Is the wrong? Why?
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The spirit in which you reply indicates that you are a Nationist who merely uses and demeans the name of Jesus Christ. You and the rest of you Drumpf worshippers should read C. S. Lewis’ Screwtape Letters, as Screwtape says “When you have made the world his end and his religion as a means you have nearly won your man…” Every “Evangelicalist” including Franklin Graham, can be described in that quote. Jesus says to you, “You cry Lord, Lord, but I do not know you!” Enjoy that pretty cage you will reside in with your “Father Below”.
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Please use the menu drop down to contact info. Or did you just need to vent?
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You are currently reading from the church’s website. If you click the tabs above, such as “Conact Us” or “About Us,” your questions would be answered.
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you can read all about who he is and about the church he pastors on his website.
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Doesn’t make one single word he said any less untrue. All the things he said and here you are all hung up because he didn’t say his last name, probably out of fear of retribution by fools such as you.
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What part of the article is dishonest? I read it through very carefully. I double-checked every Bible reference. I cannot find anything in it that is dishonest.
Please do explain what makes you toss out the ‘dishonest’ accusation. And why you are hung up on him not providing his full name.
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Here’s what is dishonest. The author says that the bakers discriminated against the couple because they were homosexual. That is dishonest.
The bakers didn’t refuse service because the couple were homosexuals. They refused because it was for an event which in their view contradicted their sincere religious beliefs. If a married man and woman asked for the cake for one of their children’s “homosexual weddings” they would have received the same response. It was not the people, it was the event. To bake a cake for something like that would have implied an endorsement for something which they could not endorse.
Let me ask you, would you bake a cake for someone — anyone (homosexual, black, Asian, Muslim, Christian, etc) — who wanted it for a celebration party for Ashley Madison’s success in promoting adultery in America?
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Amen.
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Peter sounds like he has bitter feelings towards Frank
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Donna, you, like Frank, are on the road to damnation.
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My point exactly. What would God think of taking away health care to give $800,000,000 dollars of tax cuts to the rich?
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Take a look at the top of his page under Pastor Olson. He identifies himself and his CV fully.
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I can understand the basis for some of your concerns, but from my point of view (which may not be worth much from your point of view), as a retired pastor of a few mega churches (100-450, or thereabouts) over the last 40 years or so, your arrogant, condescending sarcasm made it difficult to receive, respect, or relate to your message.
You said you would pray and take action.
Great! I suggest you start by taking some serious time to prayerfully reflect on the attitude behind your open letter to Mr. Graham. Your first course of action might be to write an open letter of apology and confession to Rev. Graham for your subtly (or not) angry letter that drips with a sickening sense of self-subscribed spiritual superiority.
Your brother,
Matt
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Remember we are soldiers of god and when we hear people speak evil in the name of god you will hear from us 😒
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What does it matter if it’s a truth about hating. You do not need a church to believe in GOD. You do not need a church to read the bible & what GOD is telling us. You do not need a Minister, Pastor, or Rabbi to learn the lessons of the bible. Maybe it was sent by the angels to see that you have read some good instead of learning to hate other’s. If you are truly spiritual you need to question your own behavior not other’s!
I have a bitter feeling towards Frank, he spews hate & disharmony in a time we need to be kinder to other’s because of waring destruction to the human core!
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What the hell is wrong with you william. you finally hear a Christian who thinks like an actual Christian, and you trist it into a political diatribe in your twisted mind.
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Maybe because Frank is a “false prophet” taking God’s name in vain. Frank is the antithesis of a christian and will probably be just flabbergasted when he busts hell wide open for his hypocrisy the whole God’s name in vain thing. Frank is more like a Pharisee than a Christian with “bitter feelings” toward anyone who doesn’t think or look like him.
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And, you call yourself a Christian? Wow. You sound angry. You’re not a real Christian.
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Obviously, one who hides in the shadows. One of those who sets fires and runs away. One who obviously has never read the Bible of any description.
Just another busy body trying to destroy and the man who will not be destroyed.
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Many of us have issues with Christians who turn their coats inside and side with evil when it benefits them.
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I don’t find ‘bitter’. I do find a serious, honest, criticism of how Graham, unlike his father, preaches discrimination.
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Correction: In the second paragraph you mentioned the slayings at Mother Emmanuel AME in Charlotte. Actually, it was in Charleston, SC.
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“So let me see if I have this figured out correctly: God doesn’t give a flying fruitcake if we deprive twenty-million people, most of them poor, of access to health care. Nor is God particularly concerned about how men treat women in the workplace, how people of color are treated in the real estate market, how the hungry and homeless are cared for (or not), but God flips out if we bake a cake for a same sex couple to celebrate their wedding? I have to be honest with you, Frank. I’m just not seeing it.”
Uh, Pete–Can I call you Pete? This one paragraph tells me all I need to know–you’re just another whining sanctimonious liberal, insecure in your ability to get along without the almighty gov’t taking care of you. I can just hear your sermons preaching victimhood, blaming the rich, still spouting the tired racism claim, & urging your ‘little’ congregation (oh, you played that one to the hilt) to violate their conscience regardless of their values–you are aware that the folks you’re condemning had served their accusers for some time & held no malice toward them, right? Your smug, holier-than-thou remarks & dislike for Rev. Graham–“We don’t have your money, your access to the halls of power or your seeming direct connection to the Almighty”–are vivid reminders that just being behind a pulpit doesn’t a pastor make.
Your last sentence, “You can keep your champion in the White House, thanks just the same.” is a direct affront, an insult, no less, to all of us who voted for Trump–so, here’s the thing, Pete, you can keep your small church AND your snarky opinions, thanks just the same. Oh, and you might want to get that halo polished–brass, unlike gold, tarnishes…
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Praise god for fair minded people like you. You know exactly what the true word of god means.god bless.
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I think whining and sanctimonious describes Franklin to a T. Thanks!
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It’s quite funny that you don’t address any of his points, you just cry liberal and run away. It’s the kind of pathetic fear mongering people have used for years. Your response was unkind and not Christianly.
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Your comment says everything we need to know about you. You have forgotten or never knew the words of Jesus Christ. You assume you know all about “Pete” and vilify him for expressing his understanding of the Gospel. And you call him “whining”, “sanctimonious” and “snarky”? You sound more like a Pharisee than a follower of Jesus. “Your smug, holier-than-thou remarks” do not reflect God’s word or the teachings of Jesus.
“Stop judging others, and you will not be judged. For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever Measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged”. I suggest you first take the plank out of your own eye before you worry about the speck in someone else’s eye. Then perhaps you can review the words of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Many Bibles make it easy figure out which were His words, they are the ones in red type. I have never in any version of the Bible seen Jesus say anything like what you just wrote. People like you are why Christians are hated. You give the rest of us a bad name.
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This comment justifying taking from the poor that will cause many deaths is Christian? Did you happen to know he was paid richly for supporting Rumps positions? People that call themselves Christian and believe this crap are disgusting. That’s why the young are leaving the church. Phony religious people are driving them away.
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~ The Christian Dilemma:
The greatest threat to America, and indeed to the rest of world, at this point in history, comes from the staunch advocates of right wing ideology, and I must submit this warning to you: There is a grave problem with the right wing movement, in that; they seem to possess a distorted sense of entitlement. They’ve set themselves apart, and seem to think that their faith gives them the right to view the world from a platitude of conceit, through condescending eyes, and with a false sense of superiority. They actually believe themselves to be superior beings, with a manifest destiny and some strange notion that God is on their side. A people with a desire to conquer, under the false guise of Christianity, seeking to dominate in the name of Christ, their view of humanity being reduced to nothing more than a matter of “us” and “them”.
What they fail to realize is; if the Christ you believe in leads you to view other humans as lesser beings, then you are a follower of the anti-Christ. The plain truth is; God doesn’t have a religion and God doesn’t discriminate. Any religion that professes to be the only true religion, or that they‘re special in the eyes of God preaches false doctrine. If the Spirit of God is truly with you, it will only be known by acts of “unconditional” love and charity. No religion can claim exclusive rights to God. He belongs to all that He has created, and to foster a belief in “us” and “them” is to divide humanity, not unite it.
And so it will be, in The End, that those who have set themselves apart from their fellow man will find that they have set themselves apart from God. The worth of a soul will only be measured by how much it has loved, nothing more, nothing less. Woe to those who have taken the widow’s mite and built castles and empires in His name. They have incurred a great accountability, their suffering will be unending.
Even Jesus will not claim to be Christian, but will only proclaim the glory of the Father. And when He returns they will shout: “Here we are Lord!” And He will respond: “I never knew you”. They have forsaken the Word and have become prisoners of the Numbers.
Those who have put themselves first will be last.
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Once more, just for you… ~ The Separation Of Church And Hate:
There is a good reason why Church and State must always remain separate. Let’s get something straight, right from the start: A theocratic state is not a free state, and never will be. I’m sure it was never Jesus’ intention nor was it His will that anyone should be dominated in His name, the name of Christ. That is the will of men. To be accurate, the concept in itself is anti-Christian. You can only follow Christ by choice, not by legislation.
It seems some people are more intent on casting stones at perceived sinners than propagating the love of Christ. ~ “Above all else, I command you love one another”. ~ This was the message that Jesus preached, and as far as I can see, the worth of a soul will only be measured as such. But I can assure you of one thing, when your time of judgment comes, you won’t be asked to recite scripture, but rather, if anything, the question will be: Did you get the message and live by it?
For all of you people out there on the religious right, you should try to remember that looking for sins to condemn, and people to persecute in the name of God, is simply Satan’s way of keeping you from seeing what is good and praiseworthy. It’s Satan’s favorite means of deceit; getting people to hate and kill each other in the name of God and Christ Jesus. Twisting scripture to incite hatred and division.
Understand this; that by doing so, you are defaming the name of Christ, associating Jesus with bigotry and hate. Jesus was never cursed with these feelings, these sins that you commit in His name. It’s widely agreed that He rose above it all, and to use His name for the justification of spreading contempt and hatred for anyone is true heresy. It isn’t Pro-Christ by any means, but clearly Anti-Christ.
*******************************************************************
~ It doesn’t really seem to matter at this point if you believe in God and Christ or not. What we have are Anti-Christians, the antithesis of the persona Jesus, and they are attempting, through legislation, to declare America to be a theocratic state and nation, legitimizing discrimination under the false guise of “religious freedom”. If you’re not one of the “chosen” you’re fair game for persecution, oppression and abuse. It’s a perfect “us” and “them” scenario. If you express opposing views to the “Order” or you’re a non-believer, or in any way perceived as a “sinner”, they’ll be coming for you.
~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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If you read the Bible, the rich get blamed quite frequently for their oppression of the poor – it is a running theme which is picked up in Jesus’ ministry with his frequent imprecations against the wealthy and powerful.
As for ‘preaching victimhood’, I guess in your estimation Jesus was the first ‘victimhood preacher’, as he preached ‘blessed are the poor’, blessed are the meek’, etc.
Good luck with Trump, you’ll need it.
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1000 likes!
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I guess Pete forgot about reading this on the Bible? 1 Timothy 2: Pray for Your Leaders
“1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior…” -1 Timothy 2:1-3
We live in an age of political spite. Even seemingly devout Christians have decided it’s okay to bash our nation’s leaders with reckless abandon. “I know I’m supposed to love our president, but…” or “I can’t wait to get those politicians (choose your party) out of office in the next election!” Yet these attitudes are directly opposed to God’s plan regarding our Christian view of our nation’s leaders.
First and foremost, the apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 2 commands us to pray for our governing leaders. In fact, just about every possible word for pray was used to communicate this truth. Further, we are not to pray for their demise. We are told that we pray in order that “we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.” What does this mean? We pray for our leaders so we will will live in stable society that allows us to focus on worshiping God.
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Yes, it is an affront just as supporting this man in the white house is an affront to many Christians.
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Wow. It’s no wonder our country is in the divided mess it’s in. Christians are not close to united and the division lies along party lines. Ever wonder how we got here and what God must think? I especially wonder about those who are critical of helping the poor, wanting to care for the homeless, thinking the rich are the good guys. I would love to know where that is in the Bible.
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I’d be interested in hearing which of Peter’s biblical references you have a problem with and why.
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“Tired racism claim”?
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Yeah — I can’t stand those sanctimonious liberals. I heard about this one guy, a lot like our “buddy” Pete, here. He’s *always* harping on this kind of stuff. I mean seriously. I heard him say once to this wealthy guy who was throwing a party, “‘When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous” Seriously true. This happened. This nutcase actually said this to that rich guy who just wanted to party with some of his friends. Yeesh.
There was another guy who used to go around saying stuff like, “God will never forget the needy; the hope of the afflicted will never perish.” I mean, okay, that’s nice and all, but it doesn’t mean my tax dollars should go to the poor, right?
And I heard about this other guy who was always saying “It is a sin to despise one’s neighbor, but blessed is the one who is kind to the needy.” Easy for this guy to say. He probably didn’t live in a neighborhood where his neighbors were gay or not white or not Christians.
I’ve heard a lot of other stuff like this from other people, too. But I’ll be dipped if I’m giving up my hard-earned cash to a bunch of whining liberals like these guys (they go by the names Jesus, Solomon and Isaiah — all foreign names, so that probably explains it all).
I’m not making this stuff up. These guys actually said this crap.
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READ IT AGAIN…. YOU MUST HAVE MISSED THE POINT
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Not sure what his denomination, or whether he has really studied the Bible, but this purported pastor has missed the point about final judgment. Certainly would not waste my time on any given Sunday sitting through one of his sermons. Pete ought to remember Paul’s words about false prophets. There is a lot wrong with the world today and many hundreds of thousands lose their life each year for the cause of Christ. Stick to your day job, Pete. Your Sunday credentials are obviously lacking some wisdom and prayerful study.
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So what does the Bible say about liberals to deserve judgement and rath? Do u attend a pussy grabbing church? Does the Bible say anything about the poor? Wasn’t Jesus friends with a prostitute? Did he not heal some people that had nothing? Mother Theresa is the best example of a true Christian (Catholic father to be exact). She shared God’s love with those of different faiths, never expected their conversion. She just did God’s work and did he very best to honor him every day. Well you may have heard of this woman. I love the Catholic faith for their mission to care for the poor. Worked in Cleveland with the homeless. Seen first hand how so many unsung heros follow this path. I bet other Christian do this as well. I remember a song we sang in church frequently when I was a child…whatever you do to the least of my brother,that u do unto me. Food for thought…pray on it tonight.
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That song ran through my mind as I read the article as well.
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Nan Phillips, you should have at least had the decency to preface your response letting everyone know that you aren’t a Christian. I mean, it is obvious from your reply, but not everyone reading these posts will be able to spot a non-believer so easily, especially one so we’ll spoken as you. If for some reason you identify yourself as a Christian, then I will admit that I’m befuddled. Someone so we’ll spoken, but not familiar (or “in denial”) of the definition of the word “hypocrite”. If you do currently identify as a Christian, you should look that word up (hypocrite) and really dive deep into its meaning and how it pertains to your life.
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Isn’t it funny how the author here made his entire argument based on things Frank was doing, not about Frank personally, but most of the people who come here to defend Frank can’t help but devolve into name-calling, personal attacks and ad hominem?
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All I can say is Amen! Alleluia!
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If this Pastor Pete knows the Bible so thoroughly, He might want to read a small chapter in the New Testament again that Called Jude ! That is very clear as to Gods thinking about same sex relations ! This isn’t the only place as you can find little remarks from the beginning of OT to the end of NT , Jude is small and very to the point. My Bible also speaks of false prophets in the end days and we can get a lot of versions of this in large as well as congregations of 30-40. The truth is all wrapped up in ROM 10:8,9 10 and is confirmed thru Eph 2:8,9,10 Where it clearly tells us We are NOT saved by works But when we are saved it is unto good works. ————- With all this said, I who accepted Christ and have called myself a Christian for 60+ years still fail to see how Trumps life is any different (EVEN IF HE HAD DONE ALL THE LEFTISTS HAVE ACCUSED HIM OF) that are alternate choice who would have been in the White House. We absolutely know, these things are record not accusations !
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Please don’t print my letter with any MODERATIONS !! I want my words written exactly like I feel. Being changed by anyone else isn’t my thinking !! My only change would be to rephrase the end of the next to last sentence mistake. It should read, ” Than is the alternate choice”
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Amen, Susan!
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I’d be interested in hearing which of Peter’s biblical references you have a problem with and why.
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That IS the truth. If you don’t get your way whine and carry on destroy your own areas. Is this the American way? I think not. You will take all the good that will come from President Trump’s administration and never say thank you. Your kind is littering America with lies and wild imaginations.
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Susan, Susan, Susan. Can I call you Susan? So much more Christian to blame the poor and unfortunate, eh?? And what abut the comments made about Obama when he was president? Could we not have considered those a direct affront, an insult, no less, to all of us who voted for Obama? Or did such a thought never enter your silly little mind, Susan, because after all, it is only about you and your kind?
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Susan Scott: “I can just hear your sermons preaching victimhood.” You voted for Trump and you’re worried about someone preaching victimhood? Start with Trump himself who has made playing a victim the cornerstone of his existence. You may have ignored the central message of the letter, which is that Jesus’ instructions supersede all. Your response to him reeks of disdain and judgment.
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Thanks Pastor for what you do and also for reminding and maybe educating Rev. Franklin Graham about what kindness and what caring about the disadvantaged is. Regards.
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People need to quit combining their religious beliefs and politics. Christ didn’t come to straighten out the Romans or Jewish leaders! God wants us to focus on him! Our relationship with him and what he desires of us is his concern!
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Teeny bit self righteous there pastor. For the record president Trump does not go about, nor does he advocate ‘grabbing young girls……’ tho he did boast about being a star and having certain women throwing themselves at you. Also not many things in the Bible get to be described as ‘detestable’ like having sexual relations with your own gender Leviticus 18:22. Also please check out Paul in Romans 1:21-32 before suggesting that he might agree with you and the modern acceptance of these practices. Perhaps you are also for the slaughter of children through abortion? I too like to think we are all brothers albeit with differences but please be humble before the word of God.
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He didn’t mention anything about abortion, your trying to poison the well with your accusations. Shame on you!
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For the record, Graham, Mr Trumps exact words were are transcribed below. My apologies for reprinting crudity, but since we’re on the record…
Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
Bush: Whatever you want.
Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.
I don’t read that as boasting about being a star and having women throw themselves at you. Those words spoken by our current president describe sexual assault.
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It troubles me that Leviticus is constantly thrown out to justify hateful behavior. Do you also refrain from eating shellfish? Do you make the required sacrifices for your sins? Do you stay away from menstruating women because they are unclean? Do you eat bacon? Ever have a pet lizard? mouse? gecko? Ever have a contagious skin disease? open sores? a burn? My guess is yes at some time in your life. Did you tear your clothes and go from place to place, cover your mouth and call out “Unclean! Unclean!”? Did your priest then perform the cleansing ceremony, with the sacrifice for the burnt offering? Did you provide the two lambs? Or a grain offering if you couldn’t afford the lambs?
If you are going to live by Leviticus, you must live by the whole book, not just one “sin” you can toss out in judgement of others. However, if you profess to be “Christian” you know that Christ overrides the old Testament. He made the ultimate sacrifice for our sins so that we don’t have to perform the old rituals, etc. And what exactly did JESUS say about homosexuality? NOTHING. He did say to “Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.”
And maybe you should review those verses where Jesus tells us to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, etc. Because that’s what I believe Christians are called to do.
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re: Stuart J. Moore
I have seen video of Trump himself talking about (which has been widely publicized) grabbing girls by the genitals (though he used a much more rude word), and made a whole series of lewd comments. It is obvious what kind of person his is, and it isn’t good. See for yourself:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-trump-tapes/503417/
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Are you living in a bubble?
You know that you can also use the internet to listen to recordings of things people have said. For instance there is a recording of Donald Trump saying, ” You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything….Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
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He’s boasting about using his stardom to sexually assault women.
TRUMP. “You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything… Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
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Uh, no, Graham, he said HE could grab them (and did), not that they threw themselves at him. So convincing, too, when you drag in the wistful ‘proof texts’ for homophobes and the obligatory anti-choice screed, particularly when the article had nothing to do with either.
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I think that whenever we quote scripture we need to consider the context it was written in: when was it written, to whom was it written, what led it to be written. Then we might see that the Leviticus scripture to which you refer was written to the Levite Priests and also about the worship of a god called Molech. To whom was Paul writing about? What exactly did Jesus have to say about it? Yes the letter was populated with phrases which were there as ‘humour’ which some may not agree with. I’d be cautious with utilising Scripture without context applied however.
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Hi Graham, just want to draw your attention to the fact that Trump is literally on the record as boasting about being able to “grab ’em [women] by the pussy” and faces several lawsuits for sexual assault. None of these instances include the women “throwing themselves” at him as you suggest, but of him using his power to force himself on them. Secondly, while I agree with you that we should be humble before the word of God, I would suggest that we should also remember that our faith is a living one, and that we also need to be open to communicating with God through prayer so that we are not reliant on human interpretations of the divine word alone. For example, you are greatly opposed to the “slaughter of children through abortion”, yet the Bible tells us of the many occasions on which God demanded the slaughter of men, women and children, and withdrew his favour from those who did not carry this out in full. I’m sure you will not be surprised to learn that I would disagree with your interpretation of the Leviticus passages (and would of course encourage you sincerely to explore the many highly credible academic and theological perspectives on this difficult book), but even if you do ultimately believe that homosexuality is a sin, I’m sure you also remember how Jesus commanded to treat sinners.
God bless.
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Thanks Rev Graham. Pastor Peter needs a good wake up call. At the moment he’s in a slumber. He refuses to see the truth. His entire letter is complaining and crying and shouting out how poor he and his church is. I think Rev need some prayer and help. I’m quite sure you will do that. And I think you know what I mean. God bless Rev. We love you and your Dad Rev Billy Graham. God bles.
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Amen
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Actually the president DID say he could grab women by the genitals any time he wanted..this was quoted before he was elected
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Did you hear the Recording?
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Trump didn’t just talk about women throwing themselves at him- he talked about finding a married woman attractive and “moving on her like a bitch”, as well as saying he could do whatever he wants because he’s a star, including unasked for kissing and crotch grabbing. You’re a liar.
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The shooting at Mother Emmanuel was Charleston, SC, not Charlotte. But I appreciated your letter. It resonated with me.
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You really don’t get Jesus, do you?
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re: Stuart J. Moore
I have seen video of Trump himself talking about (which has been widely publicized) grabbing girls by the genitals (though he used a much more rude word), and made a whole series of lewd comments. It is obvious what kind of person his is, and it isn’t good. See for yourself:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/the-trump-tapes/503417/
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Amen and thank you Pastor Peter for your great insight. Well written from beginning to end. As a matter of fact yours is the church I would enter to pray and worship and gain true understanding. God continue to bless your small church ministry.
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Amen
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Snarky and judgemental is “great insight” and “well written?”
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Maybe you need to get the chip off of your shoulder first, the log out of your own eye before you can clearly judge Franklin Graham. You both have misgivings. Your spirit of condemnation is not helping.
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Well Pastor Peter, I agree with all your statements about not discriminating against anybody & all that, but Christians are being killed & beaten because we are Christians. Watch the news once in a while or go on-line & type in Christians being prosecuted, & you’ll see videos from all over the world of Christians being killed, abused, beat up for have a peaceful demonstration. Everybody can have a peaceful demonstration & the gay community can even have their parades wearing barely enough clothes to cover their private parts flaunting it right in front of little children. But if a Christian bunch holds a peaceful demonstration, they are spit on & things are thrown at them & even getting beat up. Now I want it known that I am not against anybody, I have gay friends & middle eastern friends. I Love Everybody even the people who would kill me because of my faith, I just wish everybody could feel this way. I know some religious people push it to far by getting in your face, they are not following the teaching of Jesus Christ. He did not force his religion on anybody, he opened his arms to welcome anybody who would listen to him.
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In my “Bible” My Jesus died for our sins .Yup HE did .Also , it states “all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD .SO, what your saying is that others that ran for government and told numerous lies and performed horrific sins ” I wont list them. , because ” judge not lest you be judged” would have been a better choice? Mercy me .As for quoting the Bible and saying you live by it better than “Frank”.Arent you being quite hyprocritical.And I do believe MY BIBLE says that if we ask our Lord in sincerity to forgive us and lead us in the way HE wants us to go that He will .Are you following me so far? Another verse in the Bible says if we bring up a child in the way he should go he will return to it.” did I get that right? So. I am puzzled as to what Bible you are reading Some of us I have to agree have a problem accepting some of the Bible because it sort of hits home bit it is there and Ibelieve in my Lord and I believe in the Bible .Am I a sinner –‘ oh yes unfortunately, I wake up everyday and start off with thanking the Lord for waking me and yet before the day is over I am sure HE is shaking HIS head but I am sincere, I believe and I try to please .Last but not least before you quote any more Bible verses to “Frank” you should read Revelations.Some serious sins listed there .We might not like it because it may hit home with us or some of our family but there it is in black and white .- no arguing with the BOOK …sincerely yours in Christ .PS. Remember the Presidents mother raised him in the way he should go , and it appears as though he has returned to it .I dont believe God has given sny of us permisdion to question that .We all have a past .And from what I have seen in the last 4 months there a lot of judgemental people that needs to take to their knees and use their lips to chat with God instead of using vulgar, petty , unchristianlike pettiness just to be heard .
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Great advice – start with the plank in your own eye.
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Amen!
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Amen
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Amen !
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“I am good. I don’t do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad.” – Trump on why he doesn’t ask God for forgiveness. This is not a man with even a basic understanding of Christianity.
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Your assessment of “Frank”, and the world is spot on, but your wrath filled righteous indignation has been reserved for me alone. I”ll see you there! Love in a fallen world is forgiveness. Try it, it might give you rest. Jesus (Matthew 18:35)
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This is a man truly called by God. I would so love to be in his congregation. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior! That’s the easy part. For those who say it is the only part, well, you are wrong. You accept Jesus, then you show that acceptance by your love, care and compassion for all of your fellow earthly travelers. You must see the living Christ in each person you encounter. “If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. and if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.” 1Corinthians 13.
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We are to love, yes, but to tolerant and accepting of a lifestyle that goes against God’s word, we have to take a stand. I lave friends I the LGBT community. They know how l feel about their lifestyle but they also know l love them.
This pastor made some good points but his righteousness indignation was more than l could stand.
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Amen 🙏
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Well said. Thete is a difference between being a believer and a follower of Christ. Christ always says, “follow me.”
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Amen Pastor Peter. Love your letter.
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I would as well. Franklin Graham has lost his way over a political hack.
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I DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW CAN A PASTOR BE SO NAIVE .REMENBER ABOUT CLINTON THE GREAT IMORAL ACTION AT THE WHTIE HOUSE/ NO , WE DON’T REMENBER BUT ATTACK PRESIDENT TRUMP BC HIS IMORALS ACTION.DON’T BE SILLY PASTOR.LETS BE FAIR AND
LETS BE HONEST TO EACH OTHER.GOD LOVES EVERYONE DOES NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE.YOU NEED TO READ MORE THE BIBLE AND ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT FOR WIDOM WHAT WE ALL NEED. LOVE ONE ANOTHER NOT POINT ONE ANOTHER .THE JUST COMES FROM GOD. ELAINE REMKES.
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I think the reason for this letter is because of the sanctioned hate by Mr. Graham toward same sex partners.
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Your keyboard can type in lower-case letters, too, as well as CAPS. You might give it a try (assuming that using normal type won’t draw attention to the fatuousness of your thinking).
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Did you realize that the Pastor is the Apostle Peter?
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Yes and what about Hitler. Ghenghis Khan, Nero, and Ramses? They have as much to do with this discussion as the Clintons.
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Every business has the right to their own target audience. If you own a private business, then you get to choose who you do and do not do business with. This was an attack on christianity! The big picture isn’t as big and life-threatening as people dying in other countries for preaching the gospel, but persecution nonetheless.
By your standard, if I needed a lawyer and they turned me away because I didn’t have the money to pay for it I should be able to sue because they are denying services to me because of my financial (and quite possibly socio-economical status). Isn’t that discrimination towards the poor??
You see, you have to be able to apply the same concept across situations. Refusing to bake a cake for a same sex couple because of religious beliefs isn’t discrimination. That baker even recommended excellent bakers in the area that would have been happy to bake the cake. I believe that baker referred the same sex couple to excellent bakers out of the kindness of his heart.
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Your thinking is flawed. First, in the United States if you have a business, you are not allowed to discriminate. Second, they weren’t turned away because they didn’t have the money to pay for it, they were turned away based on discrimination, which, remember is AGAINST THE LAW. You are not applying the same concept at all. It all boils down to Christians using their “faith” to discriminate, thereby breaking the law.
On a personal note, I would love for such “businesses” to post a very large sign announcing who they will not serve (no blacks, no Muslims, no gays, etc.) because the rest of us would also know which businesses are intolerant and hate filled, and we could avoid them as well.
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“Every business has the right to their own target audience. If you own a private business, then you get to choose who you do and do not do business with. This was an attack on christianity! The big picture isn’t as big and life-threatening as people dying in other countries for preaching the gospel, but persecution nonetheless.”
Actually, no. This is addressed in the law passed in 1964 and revised several times since then, the one called The Civil Rights Act. What you are suggesting should be your right to discriminate is the same position that was granted under the Jim Crow laws of the 50s. Equal access to public accommodations is the law in all 50 states, though those who are listed as protected classes differ from state to state, i.e. in my state of Missouri, it is not illegal to discriminate against those of sexual orientations other than hetero, but that discrimination is illegal in the state of WA or OR. All fifty states include a ban on discrimination in access to public accommodation based on ethnicity, disability status, age, gender and religious affiliation. If you are found to have discriminated on the basis of any of these categories, you can be sued by those you discriminated against in a court of law or in front of a regulatory board at the state level. Note that if someone is unable to pay for your services, it is not discrimination to disallow them to take your wares or services.
And finally, re-directing those who have suffered discrimination at your hand to someone else who will provide the same service to them is not done out of the kindness of one’s heart. There is no kindness in such a heart.
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Cry me a river. You missed the entire point. You have no idea what discrimination is about.
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Not exactly true. I live in the town where this whole cake thing took place. This was a public business. It was not located in a church where they were only accessible to members of a church. They were right out on Main Street, open to the public. It is against the law to discriminate based on sexual preference. This is a state law here.
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You do NOT get to discriminate against one group of people at your whim. That IS forbidden by law. Also, if you are a baker, be thankful someone wants to bring their business to you, and don’t worry about what happens in their bedroom, it doesn’t affect your flour or ovens one iota.
NOBODY is saying you cannot practice your religion as you like in your home or house of worship (though Christians sure want to deprive Muslims of that right) so no, you are NOT being persecuted, Christianity is not under attack in America. Get off your ignorant high horse, follow the SECULAR laws of the land you are in, or deal with the fines, and penalties the courts of that land levy against you.
Your example about a lawyer turning you away for lack of funds bears NO relation to a shop owner turning away a customer because they do not like how that customer lives their life, or their religion, or color of their skin. Nobody says a business has to provide goods or services without expectation of remuneration. (for the Right wingnuts, that means getting paid.) A baker who refuses to bake a cake out of the bakers feelings about something that is NONE of his business has no kindness of his heart, he is a bigot and was RIGHTLY slapped down by the courts.
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Amen
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Hunter – your comparison is actually incorrect. There are “protected classes” (Google to see that list) against which discrimination is illegal.
Being poor is not a protected class.
So, yeah, if someone can’t pay for any service, they can be denied. 🙂
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You are missing the point. That is the one son they’ve hung their religious freedom on. Why not refuse to serve divorced, adulterers, unwed mothers, the town gossips or the gluttons? I could go on but their freedom starts & stops on one issue. Don’t cloak your bigotry in Christianity.
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Vickie, it is you (and the author of this letter) who is missing the point. The couple in question did not refuse to provide service because the people in question were homosexuals. They refused to provide it because it for a purpose which violated their consciences. Get it? There is a huge difference. It was not the people, it was the event.
If a homosexual man asked you to make a cake for a party celebrating Ashley Madison’s success in promoting adultery, would you do it?
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You mean like all those people wearing mixed fibers and eating shrimp…
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They used your same arguments to keep from serving black folks in the 60s.
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Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s means to obey the laws of the land.
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MY OPINION IS WE NEED TO READ THE HOLY BIBLE MORE AND THAN TALK ABOUT. CONFUSE ISN’T FROM GOD.WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN WHAT WE SAY TO OTHERS BROTHERS.
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This is a powerful letter.to Frank.
Thank you small town pastor.
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Wow! Unbelievable that one pastor would openly degrade another pastor. Talk about getting the drama going. If you had personal objections to vent toward Franklin than it should have been said privately and with respect.
1Peter 4:9 Be hospitable toward one another without grumbling.
Luke 6:42 Remove the plank from your own eye before, so you can clearly see the speak in someone else’s eye.
I get you don’t agree with Franklin, but where is the compassion of Christ in your heart when your calling your beliefs and or choices out against his. If your a true Pastor under the following of Jesus Christ, maybe you should pray about your own actions.
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Thank you!! My sentiments exactly!!
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There’s s lot off assuming on your end. I don’t see what your referring to. Perhaps you’re personally affected or driven to an emotional response from some inner turmoil this letter has caused you.
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Where was Franklin’s compassion? What about the plank in Franklin’s eye? I don’t think the letter was degrading at all, especially considering the words of Mr. Graham himself.
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When would frank come around poor people who really no god. He have his own hateful agenda and it is not doing what god want us all to do. Stop judging and love one another. That’s how simple god love is. Love!
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That’s not degrading another pastor. That’s demonstrating that Franklin Graham is a phony Pastor who expresses not the gospel of Jesus, but a dogma of hatred, racism and degnigrating poor Americans.
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Absolutely…
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Well said Annie. This plain old fashioned backbiting, complete with the straw man opening.
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Then Frank should keep his hatred of so much of this nation to HIMSELF as well. But he doesn’t. He speaks across the land on expensive networks, insulating himself from having to worry about contradictory reply. HE is the one that began the hateful dialogue, following in the judgmental, hate-filled rhetoric his father, Billy-boy, began. If there was a God, I’d be praying to him to save me from his ignorant followers, like the Grahams.
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But you’ve just done the same thing you’re saying Peter did! And now I’m doing it to you! Where does it stop?!
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And I am sure you must have been so supportive of Franklin when he openly opposed and criticized President Obama . . .where then was/is the compassion of Christ in your heart when you’re calling your beliefs and or choices out against his and now Peter’s?
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Amen
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He has the right to call someone out. Franklin Graham is a FALSE PROPHET. If you follow a FALSE PROPHET you are not following Jesus.
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So well said. Peter, the pastor, needs to read & reread the Bible asking God for him to see the truth with open eyes. Sometimes it’s to easy to quote a scripture and yet not knowing the concept/reasoning for it being said. I see too much sarcasm, judgement & hate in Peters words. These are sins. However, we ALL sin. Including Franklin Graham and he knews that. I’m reading ‘The Screw tape Letters’ by C.S. Lewis that tells us how much demons enjoy taunting use. Believers & none believers. Peter is very much loved by God but the demons enjoyed speaking through him in his letter. They used him well. We should never lose our love for Peter. God will work with him. As far as this letter, why did Peter write to us? Shouldn’t he have written directly to Franklin Graham? Thank you TM for your words.
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I would not dare to speak on behalf of God; to comment that God isn’t interested in “this” and “that”….who knows?…..I know that HE doesn’t approve of SIN. Let’s carry out the great commission, be faithful, plant the seed and leave the rest up to God and the Holy Spirit.
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One small correction .Mother Emmanuel of Charleston (SC), not Charlotte.
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Mother Emanuel. Spelling correction.
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As an atheist, I have to say I would have a lot less animosity towards Abrahamic religions if everyone could be more like this Pastor than pretenders like ol’ Frank and some of his idiot cheerleaders and sychophants. Well said, Pastor!
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AMEN!
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Your letter is going viral, and I am so happy. It will reach a great number of people. Thank you so much for calling out Christian hypocrisy!
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Fabulous response, Peter.
Frank’s rhetoric is why Christianity is in jeopardy of being excluded from the thought process and daily living of many humans worldwide, becoming too restrictive and judgmentall.
As you emphasized, Peter, Jesus served EVERYONE. Hear that Frank–EVERYONE.
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Baking a cake for a homosexual wedding is not “serving” them, but legitimizing a practice that is clearly condemned in Scripture. As has been stated throughout this whole fiasco, the bakery owners had no problem selling their baked goods to homosexuals and had done so on many occasions. It was only when they were asked to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding that they refused — they could not in good conscience support a practice that they believe is wrong and offensive to God. There’s clearly a difference, and the bakery owners should not have been punished for following their consciences. I’m sure there were plenty of other bakeries that the homosexual couple could have hired to make them a wedding cake, but they instead chose to force the issue, grandstand, and essentially put this bakery out of business. Disgusting!
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Yes, Jesus DID serve everyone. But at no time did He condone their sins!
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Well said Richard!
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The article makes many points that need to be made. Unfortunately, the author is a bit condescending in attitude, which takes away from the spirit of the piece.
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And Frank has never, ever been condescending. Especially to anyone that doesn’t look or worship like he(frank) thinks they should. These are the worst types of “Christians” for they do not follow Jesus’ teachings whatsoever
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I have to disagree. I feel that the condescension does well to highlight the high-handed, arrogance of Graham’s egotistical claims.
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This is a beautifully written satirical letter which states the truth. Franklin Graham is a truly despicable human being.
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Would you say the same of his father Billy?
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I think there are some good points here. Yet the early Christians were also commanded by the state to put a pinch of incense on the altar to Caesar, after all it was the law of the land. They refused. They got killed, ostracised and persecuted in other ways for it. I’m just guessing a whole load of Christians did do exactly that- put a pinch of incense on the altar to Caesar – just to keep the peace. Tell me where you think that line is, or more to the point, would you even know when you’ve crossed it, if all you do is make myriad other incremental decisions towards that one?
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Amen
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Dear Pastor Peter, in my teen years, I attended a church smaller than yours: we had two services each month and dinner-on-the-ground on fifth Sundays! Your view of Christianity today warms my soul. Frank has forged a new path, and I wonder how Rev. Billy would like it. Today I have to keep reminding myself there are “false prophets” out there on all levels of faith, and try to keep my faith strong and gentle while walking beside them. Sometimes, they cause my blood to boil.
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Sylvia, I am with you.
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Amen, Ms. Sylvia!!
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ALL things pass through the authority of God. Even the election of President Trump.
So take up your grumbling with God.
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I didn’t know God was in on collusion.
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Based on your view of Romans 13:1, it sounds like Mr. Trump was wrong to attack Bashar al-Assad. Mr. Obama had no business going after bin Laden, and Mr. Bush, Jr., had no right in the eyes of God to topple Hussein’s government in Iraq. Instead they should taken it up God. Do I have that right?
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Evangelism is an incurable mental disease.
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Pretty good article. A couple things though… Can either of you find your church inthe Bible? Make sure that your doctrine is sound. We are not bound by the 10 commandments. Old is old and Jesus is new. Genital grabbing and everything else mentioned violates Jesus’ 2 commandments. As a New Testament church, we need to teach Jesus, not the law. Please be mindful of that.
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Not a mental disease but a way of living. We all make mistakes in word and deed. I may or may not agree with you but that is not a single that is being human. Please don’t make your difference of opinion to a sin of hatred.
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Thank you.
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good response
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There is a lot of talk about the commandments in the new testament but one verse that stands out to me is this:
Jesus says
“if you love me, keep my commandments”
John 14:15
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Well if you love your neighbor as yourself, then why such hatred toward the President?
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That’s a pretty big assumption on your part. I didn’t pick up any hatred.
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wow I do not want Frank or Peter as my Sheppard
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He is supposed to be a leader by example. His example is hatred.
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Hmm, nowhere is hatred mentioned – he merely lists the transgressions Trump has committed which are factual, which is the scary thing.
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Hatred of his conduct. You know – love the sinner, hate the sin. Guess you wouldn’t – it’s kind of a Xtian thing.
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The president is an evil man trying to destroy democracy.
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Trumps neighbors are 1% ers,also not neighbors to 99% of us.
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How did you come to that conclusion??? Go back and re-read the letter please. He spoke only truths.
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He has the right to call someone out. Franklin Graham is a FALSE PROPHET. If you follow a FALSE PROPHET you are not following Jesus.
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How do you know that he is a false prophet? His teaching is quite orthodox and lines up with 2000 years of historic Christian doctrine. Perhaps its the other guy who’s got it wrong.
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Dear Peter, you sound like a liberal preacher, its ok, all people chose their preachers, you would not be mine, I agree with some of your thoughts, till you started with all the liberals lies. GOD BLESS PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP and AMERICA! The hell with Liberals!!!
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Thanks for your take on the takers. Franklin Graham, his father Billy, Joel Osteen and all the rest of
the charlatans who daily shear the sheep who can least afford to lose any wool. There is a book called “The Prince of War: Billy Graham’s Crusade for a wholly Christian Nation.” The author is Cecil Bothwell. Read it and find out how the Reverend Graham showed his true nature when he agreed with and backed a plan to bomb dams and levees that would drown thousands of civilians during the Vietnam war. Like father, like son!
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Thank you for this!
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Thank you so much for challenging the Rev. Graham on his support for Trump and his false assertion that Christians are being persecuted in our country! He and other pastors who embrace the GOP platform and support politicians like Trump are destroying Christianity!
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With all due respect, just because you haven’t personally felt loss of religious liberty, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Just ask the Little Sisters of the Poor. You want to talk about devoting your life to help the downtrodden, these holy women devote their lives to the poor in ways most of us will never be able to compare. Yet, under Obamacare they were forced to pay for insurance premiums for both abortions and contraceptions, which are against Catholic doctrine.Religious liberty in America provides every person the freedom to live according to his or her conscience—whether at home, in worship, at work, or in service to others. Even though it’s wrapped in arcane details about insurance, the heart of this case is about the nature of religious freedom and who gets to determine how faith is lived out. You may dislike Trump and he has made many mistakes, but at least had the guts to try tostop the atrocity of Catholics and other prolife Christians having to pay for babies to put to b killed. Oh, I forgot….God doesn’t care about those things.
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I’m never impressed with sarcasm and would you rather have had Hillary?
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Dear Peter,
You need to read 1Cirinthians 13 , fast, and pray for godly wisdom like you’ve never done before. So much for Christian unity. As far as persecution here, under what rock are you hiding?? Wake up and smell the roses!!
I am so grateful you are not my pastor.
Talk about disrepect to Franklin Graham by calling him Frank. Shame on you!!
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“But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God.” — John 1:12.
All who welcome Jesus Christ as Lord of their lives are reborn spiritually, receiving new life from God. Through faith in Christ, this new birth changes us from the inside out — rearranging our attitudes, desires and motives.
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Small Town pastor seems to be putting God in a box. Of course God can use anyone to do His will. Look at Judas Iscariot. Don’t try to second guess God. Besides, who’s to say His plan isn’t to destroy America? I do wish Franklin would stay out of politics and concentrate on preaching the Gospel.
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Don’t remember reading where Peter mentioned hating the President…just stating the facts.
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Very nicely written.
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Paul says to “Stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with the yoke of bondage “. For we have been called to liberty, only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. Walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. If you are led by the spirit you are not under the law.
Paul then gives a list of the works of the flesh. Adultry, fornication, hatred selfish ambitions, drunkenness and so on. He says that those who do these things WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. According to Jewish law homosexuality is a sexual sin. Paul then goes on to say those who are Christs have crucified the flesh with its passion and desires. We walk in the spirit and we no longer do the things we used to do. We change, we repent. We no longer do those things we did when we were blind to who God was/is. Franklin Graham hates no one. He only preaches a gospel of repentance and turning away from sin. Just like Jesus did.
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Rev Peters I always though the small churches were the best I am a Muslim and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said Almighty allowed him to look into paradise and he saw Christian, Jews, and Muslim. Good deeds love and a good Heart will enter Paradise. Mr Graham has allowed himself to work for the satanic minds that created this avalanche of hell around the world and it would be to his demise
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Thanks pastor.
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As an observation, I would suggest that you may have meant to reference The Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, often referred to as Mother Emanuel Church in Charleston, South Carolina (not Charlotte, NC).
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There seems to be a lot of underlying resentment and outright jealousy in this piece, which itself drips with condescension. The whole calling him “Frank,” for example, when it’s long established that he goes by Franklin. So, take a chill pill, Pete. You’ll be okay.
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OUTSTANDING I WISH I HAD SAID THAT. THANK YOU PASTOR. JESUS HAVE MERCY ON US ALL.
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Frank is talking about the devil and his demons that are all over our society and our world. Making humans of all countries closed and snug necked to Jesus Christ. This is the whole earth, and includes your small town church and the mega church’s that do not preach this. Frank is correct in asking for prayer for our country and Donald Trump…just because Trump is a sinner, like You and Frank and me, does not mean God will not use him nightly, as he did David and Solomon. I think you should follow Franks request and ask the Holy Spirit to open your heart to where Frank is coming from!
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Reblogged this on Ned Hamson's Second Line View of the News.
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I acree with the pastor that wrote the letter. When Graham came to PR my church and others decided not to go. His expressions are wrong under Gods eyes. Definitely.
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If the commandment is to love one another, why hate? Why public sarcasm from one pastor to another?
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I am a Jew. I have some friends, and a couple of relatives, who are devout Christians. They are good, kind, gentle people. And we have churches in town inhabited by people whose love and kindness shine like jewels. They are malachim – angels – upon this earth. But mostly whenever I hear about Christianity these days, it is from the mouths of those who hate, who appear to think that their Jesus is a Storm God like Thor or Zeus. They pull quotes from my Torah to justify their hate and violence. I want to say thank you, Peter, and bless you for offering me this respite, this resurrection of my faith in people. As long as I know there are still good Christians out there following the Jewish Torah (the “Old Testament”) rather than mis-translating it, twisting it, cherry-picking it, and taking its words out of context, and as long as they are following the teachings of that wise Jewish rabbi named Jesus, I believe we’re going to be okay.
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Reblogged this on biblebeltsite.
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I find this letter rather comical..
“Peter” as he calls himself… only identiies himself as a Pastor of a small church. If he does live in a similar area as I do, in small town USA, and he shares about his faith as Pastors do, he would most likely get the negagtive feedback from liberals, just like I do .. and i have felt under attack several several times for my christian beliefs… So why is this Pastor Peter telling Franklin Graham he is not telling it like it is? If you want to know what Franklin Graham experiences for sharing the truth as God speaks it from the Bible… then take up your Bible and reach out like Graham does… talk to all of USA and more… find out for yourself. I have plenty of writings and comments to show you Pastor Peter the verbal insults and attacks on me for sharing Gods word. Dont call another mans bluff unless youve walked in their path.
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All I can say is Amen! And Thank You Peter!
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Aren’t a good chunk of you being “snarky” and “snowflakes” with your responses? Here’s a thought. Draft your own letter and see if a site publishes it. You’re need to attack speak more to you than whatever this guy has to say.
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I’m concerned, Pastor, but the tone of your open letter to Franklin Graham. Here are a few words that quickly came to mind as I read it: self righteous, condescending, judgmental. And definitely lacking God’s love that you describe as having as a small church pastor at the end of your letter. So, all these accusatory claims directed toward Franklin Graham, appear to be in your life. Btw, I have attended a small church since I gave my life to Christ 50 years ago. When pastors of small churches preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they impact the lives of people where it matters the most. Because when people respond to the Gospel and give their lives to Christ that has eternal value, which is priceless. Yes, Franklin Graham is not a small church pastor because that wasn’t
God’s calling, but he does preach the same Gospel as you, salvation through Jesus Christ. In the end, that’s all that really matters. Are you and Franklin perfect? No. Make mistakes? Yes. Yet both of you are loved the same in God’s eyes.
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Yes and amen.
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Powerful words of wisdom. So much for all of us to live by, whatever our belief system.ShirltS
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I found this letter, filled with sarcasm and accusations, to be very disrespectful. If you have a problem with something that Franklin Graham is doing, then the Biblical thing to do would be to go to him and talk to him alone. Writing a scathing letter for all the world to see is so inappropriate. Franklin Graham and Samaritan’s Purse Ministries have done a LOT of good in this world for a LOT of people, and it’s sad that you fail to see or appreciate that. Sorry, but being forced to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding IS an attack on our religious liberty — maybe the bakery owners weren’t killed, but they were forced to pay exhorbitant fines and had to close down their business. We shouldn’t be forced to violate our consciences and support practices that we find reprehensible. Persecution often starts “small,” but grows like a cancer when left unchecked. There’s a lot we can learn from history if we open our eyes and pay attention. Hope you will reconsider and apologize for the disrespectful manner in which you expressed your disapproval.
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Pastor Peter, your letter saddens me. It attacks The Rev. Franklin Graham who works hard to get the Gospel out to all who have an ear to hear. The entire tone of your letter is one of jealousy. If a church is preaching the truth of Jesus, God will bless it. If you believe your small church is being blessed, then size does not matter. Christians need to stand together in their faith, not eat their own. Let’s stand together. Divided, we will surely fall and nothing would please Satan more.
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You are wrong! At the last day, Jesus would only ask ‘Do you love me’?
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I stand amazed at the religious right’s infatuation with all things Trump: maybe they’re hoping his mental instability will trigger the apocalypse.
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Pastor Pete only those who have accepted Jesus as their Savior will be standing before God on that judgement day – if you are a Christian then you will turn from sinful ways and try each day to live a Godly life and not deliberately sin – yes we have all sinned and as humans we will continue to sin but have to make the conscious effort to fight temptation and frolicking with the same sex is sin and a temptation that has to be fought – my prayers are with you
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My myth is better than your myth. How cute, haha…
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I don’t practice any religion, and don’t particularly think much about it. Nothing wrong with it, I understand it helps those that help themselves, but Frank and others that follow him are only interested in helping themselves, and that too is their right, but then they are no longer in the realm of God, only pushing their believes for their own profit or self importance. They can peddle their wares somewhere else. I pick Peter.
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Wow, this is what I’ve been saying – the church has become way too political. We should focus on leading people to Jesus; let the Holy Spirit deal with their “issues”. BTW, saying American Christians are being persecuted is a slap in the face to those who are truly facing persecution.
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Incisive, thought provoking, stimulating, yet done with Christian charity. Well done, Pete.
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No matter how you feel or what you think God will judges us by His laws. What He calls sin not how we feel or what we perceive is right by our society. Sounds like Peter should read the Bible and not interpret how our society feels about what is against Gods commandments. I don’t like everything Trump has said or is doing but a man or woman that will protect children from being torn from a mothers womb is someone every Christian should like and pray for. Franklin may not be correct on all his stance but he is right about one thing we should unite has children of God and Pray, not fight.
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❤️
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Amen amd Amen
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I see a lot of people have not gotten the point of the letter. Sigh. People do not think about things anymore, they simply see words and argue with them, rather than looking deeper. The Bible also requires deeper reading than the words, but the fundamentalist movement has diluted the Bible to words, not the living LOGOS of Jesus Christ, but the BIBLIOS of the cover, pages and maps. It has become an idol rather than a living Word, and the powerful are using the BIBLIOS to try to make themselves as powerful as the LOGOS, but they will never succeed. It isn’t about power, or money, or who lied first or worst. We’re all liars, or we believe lies that sound like truth to us without doing our own due diligence and making sure we are on the side of truth, rather than what fits our own personal worldview. God is above all this–and so should we be. Wise as serpents and harmless as doves, ever watchful and focusing most on our own integrity.
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Small Mind, Small Congregation…..Disrespectfull
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Jim,
Thank you for sending this to me. Franklin Graham is such a hypocrite. What a great letter. I agree with everything that was said in this letter. It makes me very sad how people profess to be such good Christians go against everything that Jesus stands for. ❤️ Naomi
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Just a reminder that we will be judged by what we say and what we do!
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I attend a Southern Baptist Church which, in light of Bible teachings, believes that marriage is only one man and one woman with no adultery permitted. We have received many threats of harm due to this position. The so called “gay rights” people evidently do not want to stop until they have totally forced religious denominations of all sorts to totally accept and promote gay marriage and homosexual activity (oh, and good luck with that with the Muslims, by the way). I suspect that getting President Trump into office, instead of some of his opponents, may have, at least temporarily, “put the brakes on” the efforts of the homosexuals to achieve what they want to achieve as do, by the way, heterosexuals who want to be promiscuous and some who want group marriages and even some people who want pedophila and those who, mistakenly feel that they can change their sex/gender. At least Christians, of the more conservative sort, do not want to toss homosexuals, et al, off of buildings, behead them, burn them, etc. If someone wants to go out and to form their own religion which includes gay marriage, and others of the LGBT (whatever the other letters are) agenda, go right ahead. We are all supposed to have freedom of religion in our nation. But DO NOT attempt to force others to support what we feel is wrong.
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Small community churches that only seat 30-40 people each week are usually so unaware of the outside world that they wouldn’t notice their religious freedoms are being attacked until it affects them directly. At least President Trump isn’t Muslim, unlike our last president. If you are depending on Trump to be your example, or on the liberal media to tell the truth about President Trump, as it sounds like Peter is, maybe it’s time to get back to the example and truth of the Bible.
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So relieved to read this well written letter that speaks for me…
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I don’t know what to say… I haven’t been interested in modern churches in a long time. There was a terrible instance of abuse at the hands of self professed evangelicals. That and the obvious contradiction and hypocrisy… The one thing our abusers did do was to force us to read the Bible. (Under penalty of a number of physical threats… so we read) I remembered all the scripture Pastor Peter is talking about and more. The rich man and the camel. Anyone remember that one? How the children were so close to his heart. How much he cared for those who had not yet found their paths. To him, they were his lost sheep. Do we remember the prodigal son? Do we remember the Pharisees and Sadducees? I fear much of modern Christendom looks more like them than Christ. I begin to see how a peaceful faith can be perverted into a hostile one. When Christ called them out in their day they refused his criticisem and would not give up their power and lust for money. When I see these clergymen/women living in mansions while so many starve… yep… it’s the rich man and the camel… When I see politicians throwing around God’s name and pushing Christians to do this or that political thing… yep… it’s the Pharisees and Sadusees…
For the first time in a long time though…. You, Pastor Peter, make me think about going back to church. I just don’t think we have churches like yours in our city. It’s too bad really…
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I am so impressed with all of the nut jobs that think God is only floating around in one church. I am so impressed with those who feel what that minister tells them every Sunday happens to be the REAL WORDS OF THE GOOD LORD. Of course, if he is speaking about how we need to make law according to whatever it is he preaches from we have a problem.
THIS IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION SO TAKE YOUR EVERY LOVING BIBLE THUMPING ASS GO BACK TO YOUR CHURCH AND KEEP WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN THAT CHURCH, YOUR HOME AND IN YOUR OWN HEART.
Religion was created as a guide for people to have a better way of life. To have honest, loving, caring ways, not hate lies, deceptions and degradation.
Those who wish to put down others are like the lost that never were found, the walking dead that could never see the path of the Lord.
Religion was all created on love, caring and helping others, it was never about getting involved in others lives. The good Lord never wanted people to push their beliefs on others but wanted people to understand the ways of he Lord. Helping, Caring, Sharing, Loving and Respecting all others lives and ways of thought and personal beliefs.
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Outstanding!!
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I am so thankful we no longer have an Atheist in the WhiteHouse. Love that we have a Christian man leading our country now. And grabbing genitals…. I don’t think he ever actually done this. We all say things we don’t mean. But again I am thankful we no longer have an Atheist leading the USA. Maybe you small-town small church preacher should be giving thanks as well.
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You weren’t there when Mr. Trump did these things, so you don’t know!
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Outstanding ….
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Here’s the thing, Frank. At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes. His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us. No, I didn’t get that from any private chat with God. We small church pastors have to rely on the Bible for our intel. I got this stuff from the Gospel of Matthew, 25th Chapter to be precise. As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.)
This is a copy and paste of a portion of the article….and I have to ask…is that really what you believe that Jesus’s sole concern is….as far as I am concerned he will be looking in that Book of Life to see if I have been born again…If I have accepted him as my Lord and Savior and in so doing will also look at those things of divorce, the sexuality orientation and how we treat others because if I have accepted Him as my Lord and Savior then all those other things will not be a part of my life anymore since they are considered SIN in the Bible.
Just my thoughts and not to be beat over your head to make them your thoughts!!!!
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Reblogged this on marylustrange and commented:
Oh what a great discussion this could be.
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Most of this letter could have come from my own pen. Any violation of the right of conscience is unjust. One point I wish to add is the falacy God is a Republican.
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A new command I give you; Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another. John 13:34-35
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Thank you pastor Peter for your letter to Frank. I hope he gets to read it and take heart but I’m afraid that he is just part of the machine of the money hoarders. All the hoopla of electing a republican to the presidentcy , to me has been more about perpetuating war for the profiteers AND protecting the tax free status churches enjoy. I think that most Christians do believe that abortions and homosexulality are ungodly ,but seem to complain, as republicans do, about people on welfare, and they certainly dont always hold their own heterosexulal marriages as sacred. I think many churches,in particular mega churches, play up these ideals to the”rubes” to keep the replulcan party alive in exchange for appointing conservative supreme court justices that will continue to support the churches tax free status’. I could certainly be wrong as I am not a christain, but a mere observer looking from the outside.
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“you’re just another whining sanctimonious liberal, insecure in your ability to get along without the almighty gov’t taking care of you. ”
Then how come HE’S the one citing the Bible, and you’re just name-calling?
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” Also please check out Paul in Romans 1:21-32 before suggesting that he might agree with you and the modern acceptance of these practices. ”
You should keep reading to Romans 2:1, because Paul says that when you condemn them, you’re condemning yourself.
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I couldn’t believe what I was hearing from this man that calls himself a Pastor. First how dare you spout off to a good man who would never talk to you “Peter” like that. Where is your sense of compassion towards another man of God? Your liberal ways are what is killing the church today. Your church changed, the Evangelical Church has not. They have seen sin as it is and still preach about it unlike the “watered down Gospel” churches which is what I believe you are part of. Franklin Graham is just like the Apostles in the days of Jesus calling out for people to have a fear of God once more and come to Jesus for forgiveness of sins. That is just gone. People have become more lovers of themselves than of God. They see all the good deeds they can do in this world, feeding the poor, clothing them and helping the sick but yet cannot see the unraveling of the moral fabric of society. Homosexuality, abortion, transgenderism etc will never be tolerated by God. He never changes on sin. What that cake baker was concerned about was about is what you cannot even see anymore and that was sin. He probably thought he would be committing a sin against the Lord by baking this cake for that couple. You see he had a fear of God more than man. That is what Christians are supposed to be like. Franklin Graham can see how this world and our country has lost that fear. What we call fear of God is what you call hypocrisy, discrimination, racist, etc are you understanding me? This country needs to come back to the Lord and repent of their sins. They need to bring preaching of sin and its consequences and how people need Jesus to cleanse them of their sin. I know you cannot stand the fact that Trump became our President but despite all of his flaws he has reached out to the Evangelical Church more than any other candidate did. Let me ask you this. If the Evangelical Church is so wrong in the eyes of God than why did he answer their prayers by making Donald Trump President of the United States?
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I knew by his first sentence where this letter was going. Dear Frank. How disrespectful to be so assuming. I don’t know this pastor, nor do I care to know him, but I’m not sure he knows the meaning of “forgiveness “. Who is he to sit in judgment of our President? Does he not know that God forgave his sins? This writer proclaims to be a Christian, then he surely knows what the Bible says about the things he discussed.
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Many Christians seem to ignore everything the Bible says about greed. Which it calls the ROOT of ALL EVIL.
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You are not your father. Billy Graham whom I love as a minister was a pastor to all presidents of both pastries. You play party politics. You are not credible.
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At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for
( this is probably correct),
how many times they have been divorced,
( Pastor you had better read your Bible again because you are Way Off because Jesus clearly condems divorce)
what their sexual history or orientation is
(Again a bit ignorant of the literal interpretation of Jesus teaching)
or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes. His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us.
(Read the WHOLE Bible, not just what tickles your ears and you’ll see Jesus is concerned about much more than your interpretation)
As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank.
You should read it sometime.)
( Yes you should Pastor Peter.)
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Dear Rev. Olsen,
Thank you for your thoughtful words. I too was taught that Jesus wanted us to care for anyone less fortunate than ourselves. While I am no longer a Christian, I try my best to live my life according to the values taught to me by people like you. Be kind, help those in need, love your neighbor. It’s not easy, but it’s really very simple.
I am distressed, but not surprised by some of the comments from those who don’t agree with you. I try to resist engaging with people who may be internet trolls, However, I have posted two responses. There are times when I cannot read something and stay quiet. Silence=Death.
Thank you again for making this letter open to all.
Bill Larson
Poulsbo, WA
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I’ll only make this one comment. This small town pastor is right on when it comes to persecution. If Christians in America had any real understanding of what it means to be persecuted like Christians around the world, they would never even use the word. When was the last time any Christian was beheaded in this country?
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Attention, attention. THERE’S NO GOD. You’re either good or bad, dumb or smart, nothing to do with god. Wake up
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Oh my you are an angry Pastor. God loves us all the same. We all get to decide if we are going to except Christ as our Savior, through faith,and God’s glorious Grace. You seem to believe that God okay’s everything. Our nation is so far off center it scares me to death. There is no right or wrong, and believe me the common christian can’t disagree with the worlds view without getting clobbered. No it is not murder, but I think it could come to that. I don’t know what Mr Graham did to you but my Bible tells me to treat others as I would want to be treated. God Bless you.
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Thank you for sharply calling out America’s “Christian leaders” for their political hypocrisy. Right on, “small town pastor.”
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This letter is so patronizing and insulting, I can’t believe you know what you’re talking about. You want women to be safe? Need I remind you of NFLers Rice, Larry Johnson,….
and let’s not to forget Bill Cosby and so on…..
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Reblogged this on Spokalulu and commented:
Tag this one in the category of things I wish I’d written.
-Karen
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There it is, Frank. You’re a schmuck.
For where two or three gather, there am I… that’s where christians are at their best. Not the stadium stuffing political hack trash you’ve been putting out for years. I think Big J had a thing or two to say about hypocrites, too. But I have never read the Bible the whole way through.
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One of the first things I asked when this man /child was campaigning was Why sooo many so called pastors enamoured with a Con,Liar,Adulterer,Thief,Narsiscist,Misogynist Heathen? Then I said this man has not said one thing good about “the least among us”when he couldn’t name scripture correctly,but when he said he’s Never Had to ask God for forgiveness?Shows absolutely No Fruit of the Spirit…None! I realized these pastors had hitched their wagon and monies to a ratings whore! and Don’t care! Perhaps they will all learn a lesson .Perhaps we all will…This too shall pass.Great article,thank you.
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Coulďnt have said better myself.
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Amen!!! Absolutely loved this commentary! God Bless you sir and God guide us all towards the light of grace. Help us be worthy of your love and help more people like this Pastor enlighten the ignorant and self centered. Amen!
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Rev. Franklin Graham would be well following in his Dad’s footsteps- IF he were to study-in depth!- the Holy QUR’AN of ISLAM as well as the other four Holy Books of Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and the Judeo-Christion BIBLE !!! ALL 5 state GOD IS LOVE > LIVE IN LOVE !!! LOVE ALL-SERVE ALL (SelfLESSly) -Help ever-hurt NEVER and adore GOD but ABHOR SIN !!! DID he ever read CHRIST’s Divine guideline>Love NOT only your neighbour BUT LOVE YOUR ENEMY !!!??? His antigay – anti-other Religion rants gradually deminish the remarcable accomplishments of his father, Billy Graham !!!
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Extremely well presented. Since this does appear to be going viral, it is my sincere hope that Franklin Graham does eventually get the opportunity to read it. I don’t know if he is capable of understanding and assimilating the message in this post, but knowing that he actually read it would give me so much happiness!
Well done, pastor!
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Thank you small town pastor, Frank is a total idiot without morals. Just like the idiot he wants to keep in the White House.
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Frank is so different than his father! When I here him speak my soul jumps into defense. When your a true child of god you hear evil dressed in 🐑 clothing. God bless you peter. I thought I was the only one sense his hatefulness. Small churches will always have god favor and by the way peter keep doing god works. At least your happy teaching the word of god. Poor frank sounds so unhappy. Money don’t buy happiness God supplies that!🙏
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Interestingly, Peter pretends his conversation is between Franklin Graham and himself yet he splashing it out for kudos. His sarcastic and demeaning attitude offsets the valid points made, I’m afraid. There are those in our society who attempt to block and ban any and all Christians liberties. Donald Trump’s behavior, thought reprehensible, does not represent Christian standard as Former President Clinton did not either. Franklin Graham stands for far more than Peter, the country church preacher, implies. Read the anti-Christian comments from those you have encourage against unity of the brotherhood. If you intended it to be constructive, there are ways far more effective. You have only fanned the flames of Christian-haters for what purpose?
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Great letter to show up the bible thumping hypocrites.
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Agree with what would you say but other times you almost flip a switch or seven switches like Sybil. My Mom’s catholic, I’m Christian, so I’ll go with Peter on that one. You’re preaching the Lord’s word and works, God bless you, Amen. I remember when Trump came out as a Sexual Predator on Entertainment Tonight. The Pope highly spoke out against D
D. Trump. Trump’s words back to the Pope were not friendly. Obvious that’s not his Champion. For you to represent Trump as a Champion of the Catholic Church is entirely incorrect. Throw a Stone just be alittle more informed too or watch some TV. GOD’s Blessings on You & Yours. Amen
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I agree. I have been concerned for some time that Franklin has left his father’s message behind. Billy would not approve nor would Ruth. Too many sons of preachers believe that they are by right of inheritance, experts on things they really don’t know all that much about.
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I don’t know you Peter but I do agree with you. I have been so disappointed in Franklin Grahams messages and his talk of Trump. I would find it hard to believe that Trump even know who our Lord and Savior is. But to back up someone who makes fun of people tries to low rate women and talk about Pope Francis the way he has is not much of a man. I have lost a lot of respect for Franklin Graham. I thought he was a good man like his Dad now I’m not so sure about his Bible teaching. I think he needs to go back and study Gods word real hard and do some serious think on the things he has said
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This is BS. Some Liberal who wants to bash a man of God who tells the truth about Christian persecution in the US, which is very real. Who thinks it’s ok for a couple to lose their livelihood and businesses for standing against what God says is a sin. Believe me, God stood with them in pride and love. For twisting the verses of the Bible.
While we must strive to love everyone, the “least of these” God is referring to has nothing to do with their sexual preferences.
This idiot tries to use Christianity to cry about the judgement of others, and in the same breath spews hateful rhetoric about our President based on a conversation had 11 years ago, and rumors, fake news, and innuendos. What a flipping hypocrite.
Believe me, Reverend Franklin’s ministry has done more since his Father started it than you and your liberal snowflake friends will ever dream of doing.
We are to live God, and He loves us perfectly, but we ARE to fear Him as well, because He will judge us when we die, and many will go to hell, because they thought it better to be Liberal, “cool”, and “tolerant” while His Word and Commandments were watered down and broken. Since you’re such an expert on the Bible, you should we’ll be aware of this, huh?
I will love everyone, but as a Christian I also stand by God’s great design.
I see right through you.
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Pete
May I call you that?
You are very condescending.
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I have to side with Franklin Graham on this you called him out but did not use your name or church affiliation. Calling him Frank seemed a little sarcastic to me.. Yes Jesus taught love and he does love everyone but you have to read the whole word not just what you like . May I suggest Romans Chapter 1
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Excellent letter. Glad to see someone trying to kindly point out some of Rev. Graham’s hypocrisy. Also, I’m amazed that Franklin would side with any politician, especially considering how foolish his father was made to look after endorsing Nixon.
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This was written by a pastor?! Sounds like hysterical left condescending talking points! Small churches can have a big impact but this guy is no pastor of any church I have ever heard of, and oh, yes David took a woman not his wife and had her husband killed; yet, he was a man after God’s own heart! That is in the Bible too.
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I respectfully disagree with those speaking against Pastor Peter’s letter. He hits the nail on the head with every comment. I’m especially disturbed by Franklin Graham and his rhetoric under the name of Christianity. I’m also sure his father would be heart sick to hear these words coming out of his son’s mouth.
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Simply Brilliant letter. A true Christian response to a hateful extremist Christianist, or as I refer to them CINO’s (Christians In Name Only.)
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Thank you for writing this. I left the church I was raised in the minute I graduated high school because, although the people in it could quote the Bible to beat the band, they were not “kinder, gentler” people. They didn’t practice lovingkindness towards those outside their approved group. Forty years later, I now belong to a church that reaches out to those in need, but am still reluctant to call myself Christian because the word brings up so many bad associations for most people I know. It’s all about loving our neighbor, whatever that may entail, and the neighborhood is a big tent.
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I can not understand how you as a pastor could endorse Trump as president . It flies in the face of us older Christians who were brought up in the church to abhor sin. Trump has broken every commandment but ones and continues in the sinning even after professing to have Christ in his heart. You ought to be practising what you preach. You tell people that are sinning where God doesn’t condone this practice.It is wise to be a pastor and not an endorcer. You are not an example in my book sir.You oughtg to be ashamed to have endorsed this man or should we say boy. Because he acts like a spoiled child. He has no morals or cares for no one but his self
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I can not understand how you as a pastor could endorse Trump as president . It flies in the face of us older Christians who were brought up in the church to abhor sin. Trump has broken every commandment but ones and continues in the sinning even after professing to have Christ in his heart. You ought to be practising what you preach. You tell people that are sinning where God doesn’t condone this practice.It is wise to be a pastor and not an endorcer. You are not an example in my book sir.You oughtg to be ashamed to have endorsed this man or should we say boy. Because he acts like a spoiled child. He has no morals or cares for no one but his self
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Thank you 😊 Peter for speaking truthfully and rightfully dividing the word of God. I’m sure that you’ll have a few people who disagree but your biblical insight is spot on. I’m often reminded of the verse in Micah 6:8 – ““He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you Except to be just, and to love [and to diligently practice] kindness (compassion), And to walk humbly with your God [setting aside any overblown sense of importance or self-righteousness]?”
MICAH 6:8 AMP http://bible.com/1588/mic.6.8.amp.
We too are a small church in an Urban community and we stand in agreement with your prayers. Be blessed my brother 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
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No hatred for anyone , only sins unrepented of. Thank you Peter for the God given boldness to write this letter. I respect Pastor Graham as a fellow believer, but let speak the the truth about all sin. I pray we stop showing respect person. I saw my son mistreat a young white guy. I stop him of course, but my response to that guy was to press charges against my son and I gave him my name and # as a witness in his behalf . Why, because I answered to God and not my son. My son was wrong and He knew that I did not teach him to treat others as such. It was a matter of right and wrong. Call wrong as it is starting with me and mines first. If President Trump is wrong, He is wrong, just as I judge mines or myself ( and many of times I had to ask others for forgiven). When I thought President Obama was wrong, as much as I admire him, when he was wrong, he was wrong.This is not about self righteousness, if God word says I am wrong, so be it.There is no partially, no respect of persons.
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Christians need to stand together, not attack each other. You are no better for calling him out. If you truly cared you would have sought out a conversation with him personally, not a slam post. Disappointed is all I can say.
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Do your research pastor before judging another brother who is doing amazing things for humanity, don’t slam him for the sole reason that he doesn’t agree with LGBT pushing their agenda and destroying businesses if they don’t agree with them….jus’ sayin’
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It’s interesting how people cherry pick the Bible to make their case. Trump is no angel and once called out on his actions he apologized. Whether he meant it or not is up to him and God. I’m sure Franklin Graham has his areas of sin that he deals with as well. However, to think that Christians aren’t persecuted in this country is delusional. We may not be fighting for our lives and meeting underground to to carry on our faith, but we are slowly losing our liberties. Curricula in schools are leaning towards pushing homosexuality, transgender, and religious tolerance. However, God as I know Him is not invited. We evangelists are, “mentally deranged,” as one of the comments above stated. Really? That’s tolerance? No. Tolerance is only tolerance when it applies to all groups. Feed the hungry- with wedding cakes? Really? How about a REAL meal where we can talk about our differences and part amicably, understanding each other a bit better and loving each other the way we are? I am an evangelical Christian and I am proud of this fact. When one reads the Bible they get bent out of shape about the verses that condemn homosexuality. But let’s look at the context of one of the most pertinent cases of homosexuality. Sodom and Gomorrah. ALL the men in the town were participating in orgies including the children. They dared to attempt to rape God’s angels. It isn’t so much the homosexuality that is the problem as is the total depravity of the society. God HATES sexual sin period. It doesn’t matter if it is heterosexual promiscuity, adultery, orgies, etc. So stop making it all about homosexuals. They are lovely people who are living the life that they feel called to live. I don’t agree with it, but that is between them and God. I don’t judge, I love. I grew up with many homosexual friends who I still cherish. I can’t say it is easy to spend time together. Our lives are so totally different. I have a husband and children. Many of them do not. But we have the bond of friendship that holds us together. But condemn them, no. But back to the topic of there being no real concerns about persecution to worry about. We have total chaos and division in our country with no open lines of communication. There is an entire group of Muslims that would seek to blow up, torture, and kill myself and fellow Christians. I’m not saying that this is all Muslims before you all get the idea that I hate Muslims. Not true. Again I have had the honor to work for a lovely Muslim family whom I adored.. But mark my words, the persecution is at the fledgling level, but it is coming. Freedom is only free when it applies to everyone. The joke is that so many people believe that Trump is the fascist, but look around yourselves. Who is clogging the streets with protests and acts of violence? Who is calling Christians on the carpet for every little thing they do? Who is accusing us of being hypocrites? Who is using media soundbites to condemn anyone that is different than themselves? Why is it that every time I try to engage a liberal in an open minded, intelligent conversation about the divide in our country today that the discussion dissolves into swear words, name calling, and a severing of the relationship? That’s not tolerance. That’s picking up their toys and going home because I don’t agree with their view point. I don’t know what will happen with Trump as president, but I do know that with Obama in office I feared for my freedom just as homosexuals fear for their freedoms. He lied about being a Christian. He made fun of us at an Easter breakfast and placed the blame of the Crusades all on the Christians (never mind the fact that the Muslims were overtaking the land that previously belonged to the Christian Church). He said that he loved the sound of the Muslim call to prayer. Did we crowd the streets and thwart his attempts to be president? NO. We respected the office and prayed that God would allow him to do what is just. I think we should do likewise now. At the end of the day, God sets up and tears down rulers, but His kingdom of truth will stand forever. No matter how awful things become we have the hope of heaven. I pray that you all come to believe this as well. By the way, Franklin Graham runs an AMAZING ministry that cares for refugees and the poor and sick throughout the world. I’d much rather watch him feed starving refugees around the world than quibble about cakes. https://www.samaritanspurse.org/
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Well said! Thank you.
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I think Peter and Frank just expressed their political view dressed up in religion. Obviously Christianity is up under attack and obviously many Christians express ungenerous views that do not reflect the generosity of the Gospel
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Oh my goodness , it is so evident the anger in this Pastors tone , calling Franklin Frank to show other’s that we better take notice of his opinion , especially it seems because he knows how God would judge President Trump . . . . Seems abit disrespectful , along with judgemental toward a standing President . . . Reguardless of who is are Presidsnt , doesn’t the Bible instruct us to Pray for our leaders . As we’re also commanded us to Pray for Isreal & Pray for our country .
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Interesting that you would seek to “correct” your brother in Christ by using condescension and ridicule. I wonder if you can show me your scriptural foundation for that?
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I am so greatful to you peter for sleaking out. I post constantly on the very same issues. Myself along with others have been ashamed of those who say they are christians but do not act accordingly. Some have stopped calling themselves christians. I see these mega preachers as false prophets leading many away by their connections to the oppressors. I call them Pharisees and sadusee. I have been following a very bright man “jacob israel” who has a calling and has enlightened me. I am back in love with my faith and understanding christianity,God, and loving everyone and understanding the bible and myself so much better. I would like you to look him up. He’s an author,hes on utube but peter he is so much more and humbled. I love him and see him as a modern day saver of souls,even an apostle. Down to earth. God sent him to me when i was praying so hard for guidence. I am very careful who i let into my head and i must say this world and the people were making me angry. I was losing my way. These ministers had me beliving i had some how gotten my bible wrong. I’m 65 and i found jesus when i was 5. I have come a long way and my testimony will curl your hair! I pray everyday, bible and devotionals,i believe i was doing things right but now i know i am. This letter brought me validation. Please look up jacob israel, i think you will like him too. I now know that God has also sent me validation finding to men of God being good Shepards! Thank you peter. God bless you, your ministry, your church family, outreach and all your hand touches for the Glory of God. Bless you.
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Love this! But you got the church wrong – you may want to change. It was The Emmanuel A.M.E. Church in Charleston, South Carolina. We were there in November as the trial was going on.
You did hit the nail on the head. Why have we allowed extreme right wing evangelical “Christianity” to hijack the church much like The Tea Party has gijacked the Republican Party?
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Another delusional paster that thinks his way of thinking is always right. Sounds to me like he’s listening to the media instead of Gods Word. Don’t condemn our president who is fighting to right the wrongs the past government put on America. God Bless Trump!
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At this point in time, Franklin Graham , and many others who represent themselves as “Christian” ,contributes significantly to the hostility that is exhibited frequently against our fellow humans who were born into, or chose to affiliate with, “alternative religions”, live “alternative life styles”, not by choice, but by birth, or whose skin color doesn’t look just like our own. Any of these alternatives are more honest, and less disgustingly offensive than “Alternative Facts” professed by the political beings to whom Graham professes respect, and loyalty Hopefully The Almighty, called by “alternative” names in various countries, and by various sincere religions, will work miracles to rescue us from the crazies.
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Of course an atheist would be against Rev. Franklin Graham. Peter is just jealous because no one knows him. Franklin Graham is carrying on evangelical work every day. In such a great way.
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Thanks for a spot on response. Regrettably this letter should also be addressed to Jerry and numerous others who espouses similar diatribes as Frank. It’s not about hate. It’s about love for all. Heaven will not be segregated or reserved for the well-heeled. The truth shall indeed set us all free, and we shall be free indeed!
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Sorry but Frank is wrong! Thank you, Peter, for scriptural backing that cannot be denied. If we are to be Christian in the real sense of Christ, then we can pick and chose what we want to do. Thank you for pointing this out in a nice but loving way.
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I have read many of the replies as well as the open letter itself, and I will not make any comment directed toward any person specifically, Not the one who wrote the letter, not those who commented in favor of the open letter and not those who commented in disfavor of the letter. Let me just say this…No person has the moral right to judge another person’s heart. Not Pastor Graham, not Pastor Peter, not those who read but did not comment and certainly not those of us who read and commented. That statement applies to all mentioned equally, including and especially me. We cannot morally judge anyone’s heart, but we can and should judge their actions. Having said that, just a few observations. Yes, President Trump is likely guilty of a multitude of sins as are you all and I. None of us would like our sins aired in public, unless, perhaps as a testimony for the benefit of others. When I gave my life to Jesus, I was changed, but even before that I made changes in my life for other and not always good reasons. Perhaps President Trump has done the same. We do not really know, and if he did then he deserves the same forgiveness as any of us. If not then his future is in God’s hands. If so, then his future is still in God’s hands. Scripture says that teachers (pastors) will be judged more harshly than others. Because of that, it will be good for both of the mentioned pastors to reflect on their thoughts…and their words. We can hate the sin, but must love the sinner. To mouth any evil words against anyone could well cause us more harm than we want to handle. James 3:6 (NIV) The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. (KJV) And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. Thanks for reading.
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Highly facetious Pastor Peter. But so very much on track. Thank you for your timely word. What we need to fear are pastors in any denomination who see the wealthy politician as a Defender of the Faith. That is scary. Just keep loving and caring in Jesus name.
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It seams Pastor Peter is doing what Jesus has told us we shouldn’t do, pass judgement on someone else! Maybe he need’s to do a little more Bible study and not be so critical of others! I don’t think Trump is perfect by any means, but then who of us is?
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The Bible does matter on divorce issues and it does matter on sexual orientation.
One can break the law about adultery the other is an abomination to God if different than what he created in the garden before sin entered, 1 man+1 woman.
Seems his main issue was against trump than of the bible.
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Sarcasm doesn’t suit this Pastor! Yes, baking a cake may not seem like persecution to him, but if the person feels that it is a sin for them to make it, then it is a sin for them. That is in the Bible! And I don’t think this Pastor realizes that murders, liars, homosexuals and etc will not be let into heaven, that is in the book of Revelation. We are to love our enemies but the Bible says we are to hate evil, that is in the Psalms. I could go on.. but won’t, I will continue to pray for our President as that is in the Bible too!
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I really didn’t appreciate your condescending, mocking attitude toward Rev. Graham, Brother Pete. That doesn’t help anything. You should have just stated your opinion, and left out the snarky cuts to another person.
I don’t think Jesus would have written a letter that way. Just sayin’.
From a fellow “small church” pastor’s wife, Barbara Webb
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Thank you Peter, for this. It is only because of people like you, some of whom are in my family, that I don’t despise all christians with every fiber of my being. Some of you, the good ones, get it.
I am Furious, in the name of Jesus no less (for I am not, nor will I ever be a christian, Ever, Period, even though I respect the words of your savior, and we’ve… had dealings and come to terms, lets say)
that his message is so often corrupted, by the Pharisees who saw him nailed to a cross.
I wish you folk would heed the call to take up the scourge to drive the moneylenders from your temples, for they are among you.
Speaking out, as you have, is it’s own sort of scourge, I suppose.
I, who am not one of you, but who has nevertheless seen the breath of God upon the waters, honor you for this.
Thank you for helping me to remember that not all of you are pretentious assholes.
That is hard sometimes.
And it feels like you are outnumbered.
Keep the faith and the good work.
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Well written, wish all church goers would read and search their souls. We should ask ourselves daily, “am I following Godsword.”
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This guy is way off.
Maybe in his part of the woods its no big deal to lose your business and home for refusing to do an LGBT cake (perhaps he’s part of there LGBT “church”?) Or lose your nursing Job for refusing to perform an abortion, or your teaching job for exposing the evolution lie.
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I’m an atheist and hate christianity because of people like Graham and Dobson. They frighten me. You are a shining beacon of what I think religion should be. If more christians were like you, we’d have fewer atheists.
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“I’m confused.” The one statement this “pastor” got right.
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Excellent article…many of these pastors have bowed to BAAL (whether they know it or not!). The bible speaks of the “falling away” 1 Tim 4:1 and that “the very elect” can be fooled Matt 24:24 in the latter days. This strong delusion–powered by racism, greed, elitism, etc.–is causing deep error in the church. Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
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I see people using the bible to for them to say what they say yes sin us sin an believe me same sex marriage is a sin but u are trying to get people focus on other things u don’t want to accept this is sin as much as any sin an if these people don’t want to be envolved in same sex marriage then they shouldn’t have to GOD love us all but hates SIN
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It makes me SO relieved to see the pastor of a small Christian congregation stand up and say, “I don’t recognize Jesus in any of what you say or do, Franklin Graham.” Because I have never recognized Jesus in Reverend Graham–or most of the leaders of large Christian churches. Then again, I’m a Catholic who feels renewed by Pope Francis’ call for us to humble ourselves and care for the least of those among us.
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As an atheist, I heartily approve this message.
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Pastor Pete,
You make some interesting points. But you are sarcastic and sound arrogant. Too bad for your church. For all your points, I fear you missed the point. Speak the truth in Love.
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Hallelujah. I have often wondered how Frank got so far off track. How anyone can call him a man of God. and support Trump and the GOP. better re-read that bible.
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Wonderful and much needed letter. Franklin Graham is a mean person and a bully, to put it simply.
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OK so let’s say these people wanted a naked image of A couple men humping on the cake… do you make the cake? How about somebody who’s into the porn industry and says we need to make some porn cake because they are retiring from the industry and we want to make it for them as a farewell cake… do we make the cake? Or they want someone to use the F word on their cake for whatever reason, do we go ahead and write it out for them? I think of Christians are missing what is the truth here about what to do in situations like this. I can’t see Jesus making the cakes for them in these situations. How about a photographer, somebody wants to do nudity photos and you won’t do it because you are a Christian do you do the photos for them? Come on people open your eyes and see what you’re saying here.
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If you would like to see how righteous and kind our society has become, just observe people pulling out of the mega churches’ parking lots on Sunday mornings and seeing how many people allow the cars to enter the streets. Compare this to the synagogues in the local communities.
MIKE DROP!
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Dear Peter,
I enjoyed your letter. You do not need the snarky comments to make your points. Your points stand on their own. The snarky comments cheapen it.
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Reverend peter: you remind me of “Reverend Bruce,” who led a church I attended as a teenager, despite the fact I had kicked the Sunday School teacher in the shins at age 5 and condemned her as a liar. I still agree with 5-year old me, but I am always glad to find the “Reverend Peters” and their congregations. Please continue speaking your very valuable truth.
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Does this Pastor not believe in the forgiveness of our sinful past through the precious blood of Jesus and leaving the past in the past and moving on to a better life in Jesus Christ. I believe God expects his people to live a glorious and righteous life once we accept Jesus as our Saviour and Lord. Peter, would you rather have the lying corrupt Hilary Clinton as your president. I’m sure Mr. Trump like all of us would rather not have said or did things in our past that we would like to undo but Jesus forgives our past sins when we accept him into our hearts and lives and expects us to go and sin no more. Frank as you call him is not perfect nor does he came to be but he is reaching out to people all over the world with the Gospel of Jesus. Please pray for Frank and your President, I’m sure they would appreciate your prayers. Canada
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Funny how folks like “Pete” (probably not his name, probably not a pastor, probably another lefty plant posing as a pastor) like to quote the Apostle Paul when it suits their purpose, but fail to quote him when it does not. Paul openly condemned homosexuality, and it is hypocritical for “Pete” to quote him in reference to the bakers. The argument is ridiculous and of course they should have the right to kindly express their religious beliefs and refer the couple elsewhere. Political correctness has run amuck. And by the way, Pete- you conveniently left out the last part of the verse you quoted above about feeding your enemy and why you should: But if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him to drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head.
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Your letter, and the nasty comments about Reverend Graham, are just another reason I can’t stand organized religion. You pick and choose parts of the Bible to back up your opinions. You think you are more holy than the people in other churches. Where were you when Obama was worshipping with Reverend Wrigt.
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“Furthermore, I don’t understand why baking a cake for people whose conduct you find personally offensive is such a big deal.”
And therein is the problem. The big “I”. This pastor speaks from his own views, his own resources, his own “wisdom” rather than allowing God’s word to inspire what he speaks. (Despite the out of context use of several Biblical passages). The wisdom of this world is perishing and is passing away. Those who love God seek to abide in Christ. Those who are led by the flesh substitute their own reasoning and their own will for obedience to God.
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I, for one, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Debra
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I am genuinely shocked at the responses to this letter. So much ignorance and prejudice, so little self-awareness and humility. No wonder American Christianity is at such a low ebb when it’s people are so uneducated, yet, without a hint of irony, so proud of their reasoning.
The responses in this thread are indicative of the dogmatic “I am right and you are wrong” attitude which is turning so many people away from Jesus. Can’t you see it? Can’t you read it for yourselves? The words are not shaped by love and a willingness to understand but driven by the need to be right, even if such a need is damaging to the person and contrary to scripture.
Carry on like this and there will be no need for the devil to get involved.
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Yo Pete,
Love the sarcasm! What a perfect way to confirm the worlds opinion of self righteous christians . Congratulations !!!
You represent Christians as expected.
Perhaps before you toot your “good works” horn further you should go back to the very scriptures you quote and notice that Jesus actually kept the company of liars, theives, prostitutes and perhaps even some “crotch grabbers” …yea that’s right…I know ,
That’s hard for a person like you to understand. He actually went to their homes, sat at their tables and yes even “loved” them!!!
So before you elevate yourself ,
maybe you should do the same. Follow in the footsteps of Jesus and love
Rev Graham and maybe
even that “horrible” Donald Trump….
Oh but wait….that would mean you would have to love the unlovely ….
not part of your agenda?
Doesn’t bring you as much glory or attention?
I’m actually sad for you pastor!
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Christians putting down Christians is not very Christian and also not part of Gods plan. As Christians We will never interpret everything in the Bible always the same but we can’t let difference of interpretation divide us. Just try do what you know is pleasing to God and try to help those who don’t know
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I love those who look at the 25 or so million of people losing their heslthcare as lazy. FYI, of those, I’d say 10 to 15 million of those “lazies” are children. Last I heard, children don’t work!
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Reblogged this on dbobstoner and commented:
Would you co-sign this?
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Thank you Peter for setting the record straight.I too hawas in a quandary thinking how can an when where Christians persecuted or martyred in the USA.I cannot get the 2 plus 2 equals 4 on Franklin Grahams fabrications yet it echoes of other ppl an times.This elect group of Christians shining in such a manner it’s disgusting.The condemnation of gay marriage and it’s uteer devastation on the family I’m not seeing it either.Franklin “me think you doth protest too much.” Regards an th hank you Peter, will be praying for Franklin, a christian from the left ,Karen
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Thanks for that powerful letter and back up of the scripture. It’s just what we need.👐📖.
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Wow!
Score one million for the small town pastor who absolutely and completely showed what a vile, self-serving, completely unChristian and unAmerican fear monger Franklin Graham is.
My grandfather was a Congregational minister in the coal mining area of Wales. I am a confirmed atheist. But one thing I can smell from 100 miles away is a phony. Billy Graham did at least make his sales pitch for your hard earned dollars seem somewhat reasonable. His lying twit son is NOT a man of the cloth. He’s a peddler of a false faith, a peddler of making himself rich and a man (creep) who wouldn’t know genuine religion if it came upon him and grabbed him by his genitals. Rather he’s another vacuously and intellectually moribund thief who feels that God wants him to reach into the pockets of poor little old ladies and scare the biblical crap out of them by saying if they don’t contribute to the Lords’s work they’ll be sent into eternal damnation. I find it ironically that I’ve yet to hear in the nightly news any story about any little old lady being swept up by Lucifer for not donating to Uncle Frank or any other of the immacutely coiffed and $7500 suited terrorists who peddle the filthy side of religion. Frank and all these slime balls would quickly disappear from our TV screens were everyone to realise that zFrank and his Merry Band of Sleazy Zlying Thugs are interested in supporting one thing and one thing only. Themselves.
As evidence I will name another complete slimeball – Crespo Dollar. If that don’t convince you…..,
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Clearly, religion can be used to justify almost anything. Nothing new. The Nazis were Christians & none were excommunicated. Today’s Nazis are simply targeting different minorities. Nothing new.
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Beautifully said by a true man of God
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Dear Peter
You probably don’t have time to read all the comments but please know this: as the wife of a pastor in the UK I love what you wrote and agree with you. I find it frustrating enough from here to hear the views of so-called Christians using the Bible to back Trump. I can’t imagine how annoying it us for you right now. Praying for you.
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Love you Pastor Peter!
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The Mother Emmanuel church shootings were in Charleston, SC. Not Charlotte, NC. I know it’s a nit pick but I live in Charleston and it affected us all. Even those of us who identify more closely as humanists.
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Thank you for writing such a wonderful letter ! It touched my heart and enlightened my soul! AMEN on all fronts and sending you great appreciation for your courage and truth! – small church ember in Maine
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As the daughter of an amazing mother who, on the same day she received a diagnosis of lung cancer that would take her only 7 months later, humbly received a diploma in education for ministry and officially became a minister, this letter is beautiful. I truly believe she would have said essentially the same, as would her priest, and likely the rest of her church, which was filled to capacity for my mother’s celebration of life. Although I see a few people defending the words of Graham and even Trump and implying that this is judgemental or simply not very nice, I seem to also recall that Jesus wasn’t above dealing in anger when it came to injustice. He dealt in whips, flipped a few tables, and mentioned coming not with peace, but a sword, as well.
Sometimes it may be right to express anger, however unpopular, when some would twist otherwise benevolent messages of love, and it’s certainly almost always right to question whether those who lead us do so with good and noble intent. If I may break a rule and indulge in a tiny bit of pride for my own mother, she did also receive a posthumous human rights award from Church Women United. And I am more than certain she would have said “Peace be with you.”
Thank you so much for showing me that my mother’s love and a small echo of her voice are still alive and well.
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Thanks, Peter. Where can i get a copy of Bily Graham’s speech in a memorial service soon after Sept11, 2001?
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Thank you Peter …a true christian
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Amen, Peter! I am so glad I was raised in a small Church that actually taught about the grace of God, Charity and love for ALL mankind, instead of the manmade ‘prosperity gospel’ which is just an excuse to get filthy rich like all the BIG preachers like Franklin. Where was their so-called acceptance of God’s Will with President Obama?? These hypocrites are rather shallow minded aren’t they?
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Dos this guy even know the facts of the Norther Irish cake prosecution? More to it than your liberal media have let on.
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See even in the biblical arena we are divided. I think Jesus did some table turning but we don’t mention that. Oh he drew a line in the sand as well we don’t mention this act of correctedness. Yes I am tonlove my neighbor with all my heart but I so jot need to condone certain actions or support those actions that go against gods plan. I see no mention of the gospel of why Jesus died on the cross for you and me and all sinners to bridge the gap back to god himself. So let’s keep Matthew and other versus in context and not use it to make oneself look good over the other.
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Thank you. This is the same Bible I read.
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I find this letter to be the most disrespectful form of an opinion I have ever read. I feel this PASTOR??? is quite angry, unhappy, very agitated. We are NOT to judge people, but judge their fruit. He acts very Democratic, over his,comments concerning President Trump. If he can accept the actions of the Obamas and the Clintons, GOD HELP US ALL. He is very full of himself. Maybe after HE gets into church, 30 or 40 people,are,all that can fit. His opinion is,very disturbing, unhealthy and should have kept it to.himself. Anyone who knows the Graham family, knows their story. And it is NOT what he stated.
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Well said Judy. I agree with you
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The letter is right on point. It don’t matter who Peter is! What matters is that this country has a double standard. Christians should follow what they preach and the one thing I know is that Trump supporters are living that double standard. They follow where the wind blows. They don’t care about the rest of America and never did. Yet they profess like Graham to be Christian and in their heart hate which is contrary to scriptures. God ordain the church to be witness and to have open arm to bring in the lost sheep to the Church. But instead they push them away. They forget what Christ did on the cross. He died for everyone and by his grace we are saved. But instead they and they know who they are hate like the President minority groups and they believe everyone who has a different opinion from them are agaist the Church. But it them that is against the church they preach to defend. Why are there liberals? Conservatives created liberals and called them liberals because they speak their mind because yes Christians with white hoods and white supremacist hate with their hearts and souls. But speak of hypocracy they say they love Jesus. But in truth they don’t represent God grace of salvation for all. Look who was voted as President a man who represents and talks about himself and glorifies himself. Where does he talk about the American people and how are the American people benefiting from his Presidency? Putting millions out of health care, cutting funds from the poor to give to the rich. Social Security on the chopping block and will put seniors at risk. Who speaks for them? GOP ravaging and destroying America and Trump reversing the everything good Obama did out of hate for his predecessor. Millions losing their jobs, environmental protection a thing of the past to make the rich richer. Medicaid and medicare on the chopping block also. Tell America how does that supports the American People? Where are the Trump supporters now especially the seniors who voted for him? No where but speechless. It is okay to put in office a racist who represents himself and big company, a rapist, a con man who ripped off student for Trump University, a man who makes fun of the handicap during his campaign on national TV. Ohhhhh collusion and interfering with the Russiangate investigation. Graham lives a double standard for his own gain. He does not represent the Church of God.
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Well said
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This is a pastor I could have a discussion with over a cup of coffee. He’s obviously a critical thinker. If he keeps it up, he might just become at least an agnostic.
I wonder if Graham will actually see this.
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You are awfully judgmental on a man you obviously don’t know. Franklin Graham has done a lot for America and cares deeply for it. He also has his own foundation that supports people in need call Samaritan’s Purse and this is for people from poor countries. Don’t blame the conservatives for liberals being the way they are. Don’t you understand that sin has made this world the way it is? We are all sinners and even President Trump is a sinner. He is not going to do everything perfect. All that stuff you said about Trump is from the sinful lying media and I don’t believe a word of it. Yes Jesus died for everyone of us sinners. He had to save a fallen world and calls for us to repent and to come unto Him. Christians just want to have a world where we can glorify the Lord and spread His Gospel but it is becoming harder and harder to do that because everyone seems to be offended by EVERYTHING. The one thing that people don’t seem to be offended by today… is sin. It is an anything goes society and it has even changed the church so much that they are offended by people who call out sin. We indeed have a fallen world that only Jesus Himself will be able to change and we will just have to wait until His return for that.
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Thank you little church pastor , thank you .
I’m catholic and I think like you .
Our pope Francis thinks like you .
Jesus thinks like you. Thank you Peter.
Thank you for reminding me of the 1% little churches of this world that saves our faith against the 99.9% of the mega churches that saves its bank account .
Thank you for reminding me that faith is between little me and God.
Thank you Peter. …
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Reblogged this on donniebishop.
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Amen !!! as a contributor to the Billy Graham ass with his father at it’s helm..i have REMOVED them from my Donations list under the leadership of Frank Graham..I Feel he could be the Anti Christ..
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Franklin is not the anti christ since he still preaches that Jesus is the only source of our salvation. But he may focus often on the evil he sees in the world in what appears to be political.
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Franklin is not the anti christ since he still preaches that Jesus is the way to our salvation. But perhaps you disagree with his politics.
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same with me-Billy was a godly man, but I stopped giving when Franklin got too political
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Dear Peter, I hope I can call you Peter. I like your letter for the most part you have it right. But I am Thomas. You might have heard my name before. I am the doubter in the bible. Now in your small church you might not have time to consider the other side of the coin. Do you know how many people lost there health care. I bet you don’t know that the mandates hurt businesses. Peter a great example of these folks work is the wonderful hospital in Hattie. The housing project that was never built. Peter it is a good thing to doubt these people. The work they do is raise money from generous people and run off with the money.. Now about religious persecution I am with you on that one. Some will use that to get tax exemption then preach hate. I think we should leave that alone. Peter I want you to know that there are some who hate us for what we stand for. Just because we believe in Jesus they will kill us. We are the infidel. Now you should doubt that position also. Make sure I am correct. You can go to Dearborn Michigan try to preach in public there. You will be persecuted. Just be careful who you support, If you want to kill the unborn child but keep murders alive. I doubt you. If you are offended with America first. I doubt you. If you want to force a business to cook a wedding cake against there wishes I doubt you. If you are against Franklin Graham well I will pray for you. Now I am not a Pastor I am a prophet. That is what in wrong with me. Since you study the Bible you know what happens to prophets. Have great day
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First of all Peter,how offensive to call someone by the wrong name. It’s Franklin NOT Frank.
If there’s anyone that Loves the Lord and KNOWS the scritures it is Franklin Graham. Do know that it is God who raises us up to high position. It’s GOD who places us in our positions. Your whole letter goes on assumption! The news media can’t even publish correct news. And you take it all in,believing there accusations against the POTUS. I personally find your letter is quite boring besides rude to an other brother in Christ.No one gives more of himself,whos character shines. I hope that you will learn to love your fellow christians and set the example for your flock. It needs to be led by example. IN HIS LOVE,MJ
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Amen Donnie, I feel the same way.
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Right on. God is all about love Franklin you represent to much hate. We all have been given free will, therefore let God be the judge.
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I suspect that you will be forwarding all of your future charitable donations to the Clinton Foundation, Yes ?
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I like what you said.
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I agreed
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Wait… do you see the total hypocrisy in your statement… and article that say horrible accusations about Rev Graham and his motives, the total arrogance of a guy twisting Matthew 25 into something it doesn’t say to judge Rev Graham, and HE is filled with hate!? PULL THE LOG OUT OF YOUR EYE. I’ve never seen a more judgmental unforgiving bunch than the people who judge Trump for his boorish words, ZERO forgiveness, and he DID repent publicly at the 2nd debate, which means, you aren’t Christians… I can’t fathom how that is “love” or “christian” no NOT-forgive a repentant man. I hope you choke on the Lord’s Prayer when you ask God to forgive your sins as you forgive others, because the left DOES NOT forgive.
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I agree,if Donald Trump is a christaini dont want to be that kind of christain,l loved Billy Graham,dont agree with franklin.u go peter
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Not feeling the heat of battle doesn’t mean there is no war.
It means you aren’t on the battlefield. Unfortunately millions of vulnerable people in the United States and Canada are. So here I will remain.
On the battlefield.
Steadying myself in Christ.
Preparing myself for a fight.
This is not a time to wish it weren’t true or worse yet, pretend it isn’t happening.
The front of this war is at our doorstep and has already overrun and consumed our neighbour. The one we have been called to love. The one we are commanded to care about. Yes, that neighbour. Already under the foot of the enemy.
For that reason alone I will not waste time in any other place or pursuit.
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Doug, that is beautifully put. Our battleground is prayer, because what we pray for is what we desire. What we desire has a tendency to become reality.
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It’s that thinking that is the problem, Doug. There is no war on Christianity. The laws of your country include religious freedom. For all, not just Christians. No one is saying you can’t go to church, or get married or buy anything you want to buy, or go where you want to go because of your Christianity. There is no war on Christmas. It happens every year like clockwork. No one stops you from celebrating it, or is trying to deny you anything, except the ability to break the laws of your country, province and city. If you are a Christian, follow his teachings to love thy neighbor, care for those who have less than you, and show compassion. If you’re readying for war simply because you don’t like that there are gay people buying cakes, or Muslims going to a mosque (they pray to the same God you do, so be aware they are also his children, just like you), or Jews going to Temple, you need to re-read your bible and think of how your thoughts and behaviors are being judged by the man upstairs.
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Want to fight? Feed the hungry and poor. Visit the sick, the elderly, the orphan. That’s the battle Jesus called us to fight.
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You did not addrrss the concept of the letter.
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On what Sunday n America (or Canada) does someone show up with guns to the steps of a church and bar the congregation from entry? On what Monday
in Illinois does a member of the Church of Christ get fired soley for being Christian? On what Tuesday in Ottowa does someone refuse to serve someone wearing a cross necklace? On what Wednesday in Macon does a child’s teacher call their parents because another student has beat the shit out of them because they believe in Jesus–the same student that has been bullying the child all year long, and despite many conversations with the school they have refused to act because well, being a Southern Baptist makes the kid a fair target? On what Thursday in Phoenix does a Methodist leave work to find that someone has spray painted their car with slurs based on their religion? On what Friday in Winnipeg does a Lutheran find out that a friend is losing custody of their child for taking them to church? On what Saturday in South Bend is a Catholic berated and publicly humiliated by a perfect stranger simply for carrying a Bible?
When so-called Christians can tell me that someone, on a daily basis, somewhere is actively harassing them, barring them from worship, beating them or their children up, refusing them service, or taking their children away because of their love of Jesus AND that they have taken up and will take up equally for their atheist neighbor, Muslim neighbor, alcoholic neighbor, homeless neighbor, single mom neighbor, gay neighbor, neighbor on welfare, PoC neighbor, then maybe I can take their claim to Christianity seriously. It is, after all, what Jesus would have done.
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What fight do you think has come? Which neighbor has been overrun?
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Well said, but now perhaps you could state your opinion in a bit more precise manner so that the rest of us know who the vulnerable people are? Where is the battlefield? What are you fighting for and who are you planning on fighting? Who might the neighbor be that has already been consumed? Mexico? Canada? The guy next door? I am sure your heart is in the right place but please please be more to the point. We all want to know. Thank you.
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Amen
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So, if you are forced to marry a sane sex couple, in your small church, because it is the law, will you compromise. Jesus never condemned But he also, never compromised.
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I thank God for you…I will be praying for you.
God Bless you
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Time to actually read your bible. One thing for sure, Jesus would have divided the cake and fed the poor, the humble, the sick and meek long before he ever gave a crumb to Franklin Garham.
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Did you forget that Jesus was about piece. He preached forgiveness, turn the other cheek, etc. This whole idea of “preparing for a fight” isn’t ANYTHING he preached or wanted.
People try to cloak their bigotry and intolerance in religion, when in fact it has nothing to do with what Jesus said and everything to do with people not being like you.
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Well, I’m glad to see a majority of those who adhere to their own imaginary religious conjurings are Franklin Graham fans and that you ascribe to Graham’s diatribe, without any doubt whatsoever, your attitudes will drive even more people from the church and make atheism even more obvious, thank you!
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By golly, America is a pretty great place to be a Christian! What with hundreds of thousands of opulent churches; thousands of Christian elementary and secondary schools, colleges, universities and seminaries that, without being scrutinized by any of the others (see the First Amendment), echo hundreds of different Christian brands; lavishly celebrated national (statutorily created, even!) Christian holidays which, every year, the entire culture obsesses over for several months(!), and all, eh? Heck, Christians even have a host of their own — uncensored, I hasten to point out — radio and TV stations (and dozens more cable channels).
And lest we forget: there are thousands of special tax and legal exemptions (ardently defended by such high-minded patriotic organizations like the ACLU) that apply uniquely to Christian income, real-estate, schools, speech and evangelizing. Would that we all could get some of those sweetheart deals, eh? Yep, it’s great to be a Christian in America, huh? So wherefore the “battle””?
As good as it is to be Christian in America, though, no religious doctrine — including Christian– is allowed to make American governments instruments of its dogma and ritual (see the First Amendment again) nor is any of them –Christian included — so sacrosanct that it is immune from criticism, even ridicule, or the law. Tough
nuggies.
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I don’t see why as Christians we can’t disagree without being ugly to one another. After all, isn’t that what we as Christians are supposed to do? Some of these comments are so ugly. I really think God should be the judge, not Franklin Graham or anyone else. I know he is of Republican views just like his father but his father never openly supported a political party, you know separation of church and state. By his supporting Trump all that did wa s make me not to want to support his ministry which I always have. I hope he’ll think twice before he goes political again.
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A great way to rid ourselves of the show Christians. Get them out any way you can.
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You are absolutely correct on that. Organized religion has been it’s own worst enemy. Rather ironic.
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Amen
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Reblogged this on This Life and commented:
This right here:
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Unless you get written permission to share, you’re violating copyright and essentially stealing content. Just a heads up!
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I’m not reposting this as my own content. My blogs have been reblogged and I don’t have a problem with it. It’s essentially the same as sharing the link on social media because you cannot read the entire article on my site. You are prompted to follow the link and I acknowledge that I reblogged it.
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I’m just here to see all the scumbag Christians like bhowel03216, Donna, and William Knight cry because they don’t like it when an actual follower of Jesus calls them on their hateful and abusive relationship of a belief system–it just reminds me why I ran screaming from their petty bully of a demiurge years ago.
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Amen Camille
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you should not judge
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I disagreed with this letter. If he has just a small church. Then he’s not doing his job, Franklin Graham, is anointed and a true follower of Christ. He’s a soul winner. Not a money maker. But it does take money to go around and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Saying it’s ok to bake a cake for same sex couples is agreeing with there sin. For I am a Christ child, and I would never bake a cake for a wedding for the same sex. The bible clearly says it’s an abomination. I can see why your chuch isn’t growing it’s not preaching the truth. Don’t judge a book by it’s cpver. To agree with sin then ypu are no better than the sinner sinning. We not to close our eyes but open them and speak the truth. And as you know it, the truth will free you. You can not agree with the world and not preach against sin. The word is to correct us, the choice is there’s and there’s a line. No church big or little is forgotten as long as they follow the will of God. Christians should never agree with sin, but always speak the truth. Your church is small cause you are afraid of disagreeing with same sex marriages or hurting someone’s feelings. Cause a Christian don’t agree to bake a cake, or turn there back on the truth. Your letter is nice but you are a judge and not a doer. The bible says go out and preach the gospel to all the world. God is a God of love but he’s also a God of wrath. He will never let sin in his kingdom. I rather be judged by God for ones correction then be judged by the world and it’s lies. The truth will free you. Christians are prosecuted daily becaue we refuse to bow down to the sins of this world. A church is to grow not to worry about who you offend. Preach the truth let your church rise up and grow as big as it can be. There’s no big church or little church but the church of Jesus Christ. Go out in the highways and byways and compell the lost to come in. Preach sin and preach it hot. Franklin Graham isn’t in it for the money. But to get the gospel of Jesus Christ out there. I say this with much love, remember there is a great judgement day coming, and we all will be counted for the deeds we’ve done, weres it’s good or evil. But how many soul’s have you won over to Christ? This preaching thing isn’t about us but it’s about doing the will of God. I could say more but I’m not going too, so I’ll end it here. There’s a world out there that’s going to hell, if you love them then give them the truth. Amen and Amen
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You poor thing.
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I love this post about those who cite the bible in order to put others down.
Dear Dr. Laura Schlessinger:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law through your radio show. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, is it a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? – Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and UNCHANGING.
Thank you for your wisdom on this
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Not to go on and on here, but this is a crazy letter. There are many examples here, very entertaining. “But it does take money to go around and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Oh I get it, and I guess I didn’t remember that Jesus had all sorts of money and flew around on big jets, first class. Also Paul, who turned the entire Roman Empire on its head for Christ, he had millions of drachmas or aureuses or whatever coinage was in use then. Right?
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Great point!
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” If he has just a small church. Then he’s not doing his job, Franklin Graham, is anointed and a true follower of Chris.t” ??? are you aware of just how foolish that is? How pagan? I’ll tell you what, tell Franklin Graham to ditch his $500 shoes and his $2000 suits before before he goes out and “saves” any more souls….. Graham is no Christian —- any more than you are.
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I am in total agreement with you. Christ (in the Bible) lived and preached among the poor and care for prostitutes saying they all were children of God. He didn’t have a penny to his name.
Peggy calls herself a child of Christ and then says the exact opposite of his teachings. Have you ever read the book “Good Christian B*tches?” It’s about people like Peggy, who wrap themselves in their religion like it’s a suit of armor and do and think awful and petty things, cherry picking lines from the Bible and reinterpreting them to justify their bigoted, unChristian behavior. She would do well to go to Pastor Peter’s church and see what a proper, practicing Christian at the pulpit looks like.
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~ JESUS THE COMMODITY ~
~ As Seen On TV ~ Televangelists, selling Jesus by the gram. Mega-churches ministered by evil men seeking wealth and power, deceiving those seeking spiritual guidance. Stealing their wages, stealing their souls and telling them how they want them to vote. All in the name of Jesus. ~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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I disagreed with this letter. If he has just a small church. Then he’s not doing his job.
SO EVERY CHURCH IN AMERICAN THAT IS NOT A MEGA CHURCH IS NOT A GOOD CHURCH. IS THAT WHAT YOU’RE SAYING?
Franklin Graham, is anointed and a true follower of Christ. He’s a soul winner. Not a money maker. But it does take money to go around and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
AND JUST HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU DONATE TO FRANKLIN GRAHAM? IF YOU DON’T THINK HIS MINISTRY IS A MAJOR BUSINESS, THINK AGAIN. MISSIONARY WORK AND PUSHING A POLITICAL AGENDA ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. IF FRANK WANTS TO PUSH THE REPBULICAN AGENDA, THEN HIS MINISTRY NEEDS TO PAY TAXES LIKE THE REST OF US. SO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO PAY FOR? TV TIME, CELEBRITY PAYROLLS FOR MEGA CHURCH STAFF, THE MILLIONS IT TAKES TO MAINTAIN JETS, HOTELS AROUND THE WORLD, TV EQUIPMENT, MEGA CHURCH PASTORS EXPENSIVE CLOTHES AND HOMES … OR DO YOU TITHE TO A SMALL CHURCH WHO FEEDS THE HOMELESS, GIVES TO THE POOR, AND CONTRIBUTES TO THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITY? PLENTY OF SMALL-TIME PASTORS ARE SAVING SOULS FOR CHRIST. I THINK YOU’VE ANSWERED MY QUESTION WITH YOU ENTIRE POST HERE.
Saying it’s ok to bake a cake for same sex couples is agreeing with there sin.
THAT’S ABOUT THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I’VE EVER HEARD. I SUPPOSE WHEN THE SINFUL WOMAN BEGAN TO WASH JESUS FEET WITH HER HAIR, HE JUST SHOULD’VE SHOVED HER AWAY. RIGHT?
For I am a Christ child, and I would never bake a cake for a wedding for the same sex.
SHAME ON YOU. WE WILL ALL BE JUDGED BY OUR WORDS, SO THINK REAL HARD THE NEXT TIME YOU POST SOMETHING THIS CRUEL.
The bible clearly says it’s an abomination.
THE ARGUMENT HERE IS TOO LONG FOR THIS POST, BUT THIS CAN BE READILY AND THOROUGHLY SHOWN TO BE FALSE DOCTRINE. PERSONALLY, I KNOW A GAY COUPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TOGETHER LONGER THAN MY PARENTS, AND LOVE THE LORD MORE THAN ANYONE TWO PEOPLE I KNOW. HOW DARE YOU IMPOSE YOUR WRETCHED BELIEF THAT THESE TWO MEN ARE AN ABOMINATION.
I can see why your chuch isn’t growing it’s not preaching the truth.
NOW WHO’S A JUDGE AND JURY? AN ASSUMPTION YOU’VE NO CLUE ABOUT. THAT GLASS HOUSE YOU LIVE IN MIGHT CRUMBLE AROUND YOU SOMEDAY.
Don’t judge a book by it’s cpver.
CLICHÉ STATEMENT.
To agree with sin then ypu are no better than the sinner sinning.
THAT OVERUSED AND MISUSED STATEMENT IS TYPICAL OF THOSE FILLED WITH LEGALISM.
We not to close our eyes but open them and speak the truth.
WHOSE TRUTH? YOUR TRUTH? BECAUSE MY BIBLE DOESN’T AGREE WITH YOU. I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS OPEN LETTER AGAIN, AND REALLY STUDY IT.
And as you know it, the truth will free you.
HEED YOUR OWN WORDS, SISTER.
You can not agree with the world and not preach against sin.
THIS SMALL-CHURCH PASTOR IS CERTAINLY PREACHING AGAINST THE SIN OF BIGOTRY AND THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY GOD’S GOLDEN RULE, TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS AS WE LOVE OURSELVES. OBVIOUSLY, YOU WANT TO THROW PEOPLE’S FAULTS AND FLAWS IN THEIR FACE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT BELIEVE LIKE YOU. YOU HAVE PERFECTED THE ART OF THROWING THE FIRST STONE.
The word is to correct us, the choice is there’s and there’s a line. No church big or little is forgotten as long as they follow the will of God.
YES, THERE’S DEFINITELY A LINE, AND YOU CROSSED IT WITH ME. AND WHO DETERMINES THE WILL OF GOD FOR US? YOU? FRANKLIN GRAHAM? ANOTHER PASTOR? I THINK WE ARE ALL CAPABLE OF LISTENING TO THE STILL, SMALL VOICE WITHIN US.
Christians should never agree with sin, but always speak the truth.
THEN SPEAK THE TRUTH. THE TRUTH IS, YOU’D RATHER SIT IN AN AIR- CONDITIONED BIG CHURCH WITH COMFY SEATS, SURROUND-SOUND, AND TEN THOUSANDS COMPLICIT MEMBERS, THEN TO HIT THE STREETS AND FEED THE POOR AND HOMELESS. BECAUSE, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHOM AMONG THE POOR AND HOMELESS IS GAY? RIGHT?
Your church is small cause you are afraid of disagreeing with same sex marriages or hurting someone’s feelings.
NO SISTER, YOU’VE DONE PLENTY TO HURT PEOPLE’S FEELINGS. YOU’D WALK AWAY FROM A HURTING AND BROKEN GAY PERSON ALL BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE. GOD KNOWS YOU DON’T WANT TO SIT IN A SMALL CHURCH. SMALL CHURCHES MEAN THEY HAVE NO GOD IN THEM. THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. I HOPE YOU ASK GOD TO FORGIVE YOU AT SOME POINT.
Cause a Christian don’t agree to bake a cake, or turn there back on the truth.
THIS LINE DOESN’T EVEN DESERVE A COMMENT, YOU PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A CHRISTIAN.
Your letter is nice but you are a judge and not a doer.
NOBODY HAS JUDGED ANYONE HERE, BUT YOU. AND YES, I’M A DOER. THE FIRE IN MY BELLY RETALIATES AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO MARKET CHRISTIANITY LIKE CANNED SOUP WITH NO REGARD TO THE LOVE AND FORGIVENESS OF GOD. THE GRACE OF GOD, AND HIS RENEWED MERCIES. THAT SMALL-CHURCH PASTOR IS A DOER. HE WASN’T ABOUT TO LET FRANKLIN GRAHAM GET AWAY WITH HIS POLITICAL AGENDA WITHOUT SPEAKING OUT, WHICH IS HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
AND LIKE I SAID, IT SEEMS YOU’VE PERFECTED THE ART OF THROWING PLENTY OF STONES.
The bible says go out and preach the gospel to all the world. God is a God of love but he’s also a God of wrath.
AS A VICTIM OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE, I’VE HAD FEAR AND JUDGEMENT SHOVED DOWN MY THROAT MY ENTIRE LIFE. THIS IS A CONTROL MECHINISM USED BY MEGA CHURCH PASTORS TO MANIPULATE MEMBERS THE WORLD OVER. MAKE NO MISTAKE, THESE CULTS HAVE USED FEAR, WRATH, FIRE & BRIMSTONE, AND MISSING THE RAPTURE TO CONTROL PEOPLE FOR DECADES. WHERE DO YOU GET OFF JUDGING WHO IS TO RECEIVE THE WRATH OF GOD???
He will never let sin in his kingdom. I rather be judged by God for ones correction then be judged by the world and it’s lies. The truth will free you. Christians are prosecuted daily becaue we refuse to bow down to the sins of this world. A church is to grow not to worry about who you offend. Preach the truth let your church rise up and grow as big as it can be. There’s no big church or little church but the church of Jesus Christ. Go out in the highways and byways and compell the lost to come in. Preach sin and preach it hot.
YOU CAN STAND ON YOUR SOAPBOX AND PREACH ABOUT HELL ALL YOU WANT, SISTER. BUT PEOPLE ARE HURTING, THEY’RE DESPERATE FOR KINDNESS, FOR A CARING HAND, A KIND WORD. THEY ARE DRAWN TO GOD BY LOVE, NOT BY WRATH AND HATE AND FEAR. THAT, DEAR SISTER, IS THE TRUTH THAT WILL SET YOU FREE. PROSECUTED? YOU’VE NEVER BEEN PROSECUTED, SO STOP TALKING LIKE YOU’RE SOME MISSIONARY BACK FROM THE WILDS OF ASIA AND AFRICA. YOU’VE NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO PROSECUTION.
Franklin Graham isn’t in it for the money. But to get the gospel of Jesus Christ out there.
FRANK GRAHAM MAY NOT BE IN IT FOR THE MONEY, BUT WITH WHAT IT TAKES TO MOVE HIS MINISTRY FORWARD, I GUARANTEE YOU MONEY IS HIS BIG MOTIVATOR. POLITICALLY, HE’S JUMPED ON THE REPUBLICAN BANDWAGON, HOPING IT WILL SHED SOME CELEBRITY LIGHT HIS WAY, AND PAY OFF IN THE MEANTIME.
I say this with much love, remember there is a great judgement day coming, and we all will be counted for the deeds we’ve done, weres it’s good or evil.
LOVE? YOU’VE WRITTEN NOTHING ABOUT LOVE HERE, SISTER. AND IF I WERE YOU, I’D TAKE HEED TO MY OWN WORDS.
But how many soul’s have you won over to Christ? This preaching thing isn’t about us but it’s about doing the will of God. I could say more but I’m not going too, so I’ll end it here. There’s a world out there that’s going to hell, if you love them then give them the truth. Amen and Amen
NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO WIN SOULS TO CHRIST, LEARN A LITTLE MORE BEFORE POST SOMETHING LIKE THIS. AND WHILE YOU’RE AT IT, PROOF READ YOUR WORK. AND PLEASE EXCUSE MY USE OF ALL CAPS, IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN YOUR COMMENTS AND MY OWN.
AS FAR AS GOING TO HELL, THAT’S NOT FOR YOU TO SAY. IF YOU LOVE THEM, THEN LOVE THEM. AS FAR AS THE TRUTH IS CONCERNED, YOU NEED TO DIG A LITTLE DEEPER YOURSELF.
AMEN AND AMEN!
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To ppl who are defending the big moneyrolled churches, saying it takes a lot of money to spread the Gospel (their version of the Gospel, at least): Jesus didn’t have a lot of money & neither did His disciples, and look what they did.
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Thanks for letting common sense make an appearance!
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Jesus had many female followers who were wealthy. Those same ladies took care not only of our saviour but of all his followers. Judas was the disciple that carried the coin purse. He sold his soul for money then feeling remorse he hung himself. The apostle Paul was given the same rules as the other 11. To take no money for what you go about teaching. To have no worry about food or drink. For it is from your heavily father that will supply needs.
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Peggy, The bible also says “judge lest ye be judged”. Don’t worry Peggy where you’re going you won’t be judged by your hateful God. Just remember this, RELIGION IS A CHOICE! Your choice of which cult to follow does not allow you to impose that doctrine on anyone else. The bible (I’d like to know which one of the over 300 different versions of the bible that are out there that you are talking about) also say “where people gather, that is my church”. It doesn’t say that it needs to be a multi million dollar palace with gold & marble & the best of everything headed by a snake oil salesman driving around in fancy cars, flying on million dollar jets. Preaching with gold dripping from them as they stand there in $10,000 custom made Armani suits (paid for by your generous donation btw). The bible doesn’t say to pay the greedy church & it’s pastor first then worry about your own rent, food & utilities does it? Yet that’s what’s expected by these so called “men of God”. They reconcile it by saying that God with provide. Really? I’m sure that the manager of the local grocery store will understand when you try to pay with the “word of God”. Peggy, your God is a God of hate which most of us want nothing to do with. God is supposed to be filled with love, compassion & understanding. It sounds like your God & the God of “reverend” Graham is a God of gluttony & greed with no sign of love & compassion. Peggy, get this through your head, no matter how much you & your other so called Christians feel about it homosexuality has been on this earth since the beginning of time. There is homosexuality in ALL of the animal kingdom & yes Peggy we are all animals. Evolution has proven that but then again you’ve been brainwashed into thinking that things on this earth just poof, magically appeared in a 7 day time span. As for religious persecution. The only religious persecution that is going on is by so called “Christians” against those of other religions or non believers. Christianity dominates most of this worlds surface. Non Christians are persecuted & made to conform on a daily basis because of your personal religious beliefs. Christmas for me is about family & friends NOT about the birth of Jesus Christ. Easter is just an excuse for another day off work for “religious” reasons. Jesus Christ was just the David Koresh or Jim Jones of his day. Absolutely nothing special about him. I can tell by your reply Peggy (btw, filled with spelling mistakes. Maybe you should have paid more attention to your lessons in school instead of having your nose planted firmly up the ass of “the bible”, you might have learned how to spell) that you have already concluded that I will go to Hell. Maybe so but at least I’ll have you & “reverend” Graham to keep my company.
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Peter, you don’t sound very godly to me! Your self righteousness offends me and many others. You need a little dose of humbleness. Who made you the arbiter of the faith of others? May God forgive you for your contemptuous words about the president of this great country, and for your hurtful words to and about Franklin Graham, a man who
has done more for the underprivileged , the hungry, the children, the veterans, and untold others than you will probably ever do. So instead of talking down to Rev Graham, you need to get on your knees and pray for forgiveness for your uncalled for attack on this great man. Did you not have the courage to speak to the man personally? So easy to write this type of “open letter” when you are not face to face. I will pray for you as you are so obviously in need.
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Amen, well said.
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Agree!
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Peggy. He doesn’t have a large church because he has a small community. It’s not a sin to bake a cake. How much precedent do you need from the Bible before you understand that it is a message of love?
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You have definitely said enough or perfect, self righteous one. I don’t think Jesus would think of you as a person of love, but I’m not so almighty or holy that I’ll say that with certainty, since I’m not the judge. That may be my main point in this dissertation, that YOU and I are not the judge so may want to consider leaving that work to the Big Guy in the Sky, and just love everyone as a human being that your God created. I think he’d very disappointed with your hate for any of his magnificent creations. But go ahead, fit the bible phrases to your biases. You might want to consider that possibly you are worshiping something that wants you to hate… who do you think that might be in your imaginary world? That other big Red guy with horns that frequents fire holes somewhere in the ground? Maybe… you may want to think about it.
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God hates the sin but loves the sinner. You miss the point of the letter to Mr Graham. The biz owners that refused to bake the lesbian cake had that right as Christians, but we have laws today that, unfortunately, override the bible. To take the hit with chin up as a testament to their beliefs is admirable. The letter, however, is about the President and his sins against women and minorities and his propensity toward lying. Lastly, one must ask, is Franklin Graham really annointed, or is he simply the son of one of the greatest evangelists ever?
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So… just for the sake of argument the person buying the cake never disclosed why they were buying said cake. In a similar situation the cake buyer had been a regular patron of the bakery but the owner, who felt comfortable seller her goods had no problem until the ‘wedding cake’. Is us really about condoning the wedding or standing on personal principle? Is it NECESSARY to continue dividing whom we will or won’t sell goods to based on sexual preference?? OMG Should a Baptist stop selling to a Catholic? Should a Raiders fan stop selling to a Chargers fan? How miniscule do we have to decline? It’s a CAKE for crying out loud. What it represents or to whom it’s being made shouldn’t matter which is WHY the bakery lost their case. You cannot discriminate period.
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The Bible you wrote says a number of things are abominations. Do you need a list? Because I’d guess that you’re doing several of those yourself, and I seem to recall a story about a plank in an eye.
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Peggy, neither the Ten Commandments nor Jesus mention homosexuality. Was that an Oversight? They both condemned adultery so… Jesus did say we would be judged on how we treat others in Matthew 25. Going to eternal punishment is based on NOT feeding the hungry, not clothing the naked, not giving water to the thirsty. The best thing American Christians could do is tune out all tv and local preachers, READ the BIBLE for themselves. Remember that Jesus is who we follow, NOT Paul. The Holy Spirit will lead you to all truth John 16:13. https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/John%2016%3A13
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Amen sister!! Very well said.
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Oh Peggy, Peggy, Peggy…oh, misguided Peggy. As the Pastor Peter says, if you, as a baker, won’t make a cake for a same-sex couple because it agrees with their sin,then you must also agree to not make one for a man who had cheated on his first wife or a women who had a child out of wedlock or a person who turned their back on their abusive father and would never honor that parent. Oh, oh…what about the CEO of Walmart who has his employees working on Sunday? Surely, you can not provide a serve to someone who perpetuates working on the Sabith. What about a Buddist…who doesn’t put your God ahead of theirs? No cake for them? You might have to check criminal records too because a felony for stealing is surely a ticket to having no cake. Your thinking is flawed, my dear Peggy.
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But would you be okay with baking a cake for the straight couple who are finally getting married after their divorce was final due to the husband’s adulterous behavior?
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Why persecute someone because there sins are different than your sins
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Dear Peggy if he is not in for the money why is he and his father each worth 25 million give or take a million. Could this money be used to feed the poor and the rest of Matthew 25. We have too many mega churches with pastors who are worth many millions and not doing the job the God and His Son has called us to do. From the Old to the New bottom line is we are to take care of the widow, alien, orphans and many more we do this in the LOVE of all just like God so loved the world.
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While i appreciate your earnestness..you are wrong. .Churches..were NEVER intended to be HUGE. The flocks are always supposed to be smaller to protect and defend and nurture. He has a worldwide ministry and that is fine. But without the small community churches..we would not have true Faith anymore.. And besides…I can tell you from experience as an Ordained Southern Baptist Minister of the Gospel Of Jesus Christ..having met this man Graham twice..his spirit is not the same. He IS IN IT FOR THE MONEY!! His whole theology is askew. PLUS..the fact that he believes that a PROLIFIC and HABITUAL LIAR AND PHILANDERER, is sent by The Almighty God,..shows he is a FALSE PROPHET.. I am repulsed by Trump and Graham and Dobson and Robertson and Bakker and so many others who preach false doctrine. I cannot speak for The Lord..but His word says..in Matthew 7:212-23…”21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness”!.. ….I am concerned for Graham and the others,..but I am more concerned for the poor souls such as yourself,..who believe that he speaks the truth. HE DOESN’T. Jesus warned us numerous times to be wary and look out for the WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING. I am of the opinion..and I am not alone in that opinion..that Franklin Graham is a WOLF. If he has ANY DISCERNMENT..he would recognize the enemy..in Trump. Donald Trump has none of the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT..he is of his father,.the devil. So too I fear..is Graham and so many others. LOOK AT JESUS CHRIST,..and then look at Donald J Trump. Do you HONESTLY see anything of Christ inTrump? They have NOTHING IN COMMON. Franklin Graham is a FALSE TEACHER destined for damnation if he continues to support that Lying Filth. Remember what the Word says about all liars…In the Amplified Bible we read in Revelation.21:8..”But as for the cowards and unbelieving and abominable [who are devoid of character and personal integrity and practice or tolerate immorality], and murderers, and sorcerers [with intoxicating drugs], and idolaters and occultists [who practice and teach false religions], and all the liars [who knowingly deceive and twist truth], their part will be in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death”. There are numerous other verses that speak to the sins of Trump and Graham and others. I am not the example of virtue. ONLY JESUS IS. I just do not want you or anyone else FOOLED by this man. He is FILTH,..and should be avoided. That is my advice. I hope and pray you will seek HIS truth.Take good care.
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Whoa, you cannot cloak your reply as having said it in “love” when you hold such extreme conditions on people. How in the world can you be so hateful to other people? Homosexuality is not a disease or contagious, yet you treat it like leprosy.
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OMG. You’re an idiot. Maybe he lives in a small community.
Kindly provide the verse in the Bible that dictates that small churches are worthless and mega church leaders are holy saints annointed by God
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Wow i totally agree with you . well written God bless you!!
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Great letter Peggy, I support the Grahams even though I am a devout catholic, they are great teachers of Christian faith and continue to prove this by standing against immoral teachings that damage our youth. Thank you for sharing
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Just wondering Peggy….did you vote for Donald Trump? He lies and cheats on a daily basis. He spreads hate and fear like manure in a field. His actions towards women are most unholy. As a businessman he cheated workers out of their wages, students out of their money and our country out of his fair share of taxes.
I could go on also but I won’t. Shall we just pray for the sins of Donald Trump and pray that he and Reverend Frank start following the example of Jesus. Jesus walked and healed and loved all. He did not spread hate and fear and hypocrisy as these two are doing. I pray that he shows them and all who follow them the light and the way of his love.
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You are a sad example of the Chistian faith and obviously live in a bubble. Have you ever struggled side by side with a brother or sister in the faith who has gender identity issues or cannot even with years of prayers and psychotherapy overcome the homosexual God created them to be. Yes I said God created. We are all creatures made in the likeness of God. Shame on you to think you and Franklin are above God and have the right to judge and condemn. You cannot be a red letter Christian as you are not adhering to Christ’s words to love everyone and be an example of inclusion. To think you can support a minister who condones the sexual indescritions of a president and can actually look the other way while condemning same sex unions is beyond my Christian comprehension. I too am looking to the day of judgement. May God have mercy on you and Franklin. You both are examples of why I’m ashamed to call myself a “Christian”.
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Takes money you say. Pay attention to end sentence of this. If the small churches can lead their community to the Creator, then I feel the large ones are only leading themselves to fail.
Franklin Graham’s annual compensation of $880,000, revealed in a Charlotte Observer story, has some worrying that too many top Christian nonprofit leaders as well as pastors are seeing themselves as CEOs instead of as God’s servants.
Graham, son of renowned evangelist Billy Graham, is head of Samaritan’s Purse, an international relief agency based in Boone, N.C.
“Basically they are saying if Satan pays well, God should pay better,” said Maria Dixon, a Southern Methodist University professor of corporate communications and public affairs. Dixon, a United Methodist Church deacon and a minister’s wife, specializes in studying and helping nonprofit religious organizations.
CEOs at the top 50 U.S. charities, including Samaritan’s Purse, earn in the $350,000 to $450,000 range, which makes Graham’s $622,000 salary from his aid organization alone about 40 percent to 50 percent higher than average, according to a Forbes story. He receives the rest of his $258,000 compensation as CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.
A spokesman for Franklin Graham said his compensation was determined by independent commissions that compared similar organizations’ top salaries. Graham was not available to answer questions.
By contrast, pastor salaries at the nation’s biggest Christian churches are much lower for all but a select number. Only 3 percent of churches with more than 1,600 people in attendance pay senior pastors more than $300,000, said Warren Bird, research director at Leadership Network. At the other extreme, a recent study by the National Association of Church Business Administration found that the average American pastor with a congregation of 300 people earns a salary of less than $28,000 a year.
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I feel supporting Trump is condoning his sins. I also feel that if business owners cherry pick the non sinners to bless with their wares, they may learn as much about bankruptcy as Donald Trump does.
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Franklin Graham is in it for the money and fame, his father would be ashamed.
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That’s why Peter has a small congregation. The ignorant ones are flocking to the mega churches to receive the hate messages. Sin is sin. If you would bake a cake for an adulterous, just because he or she decided to marry the one who he or she cheated on their husband or wife with to get, then what’s the difference in baking a cake for a gay or lesbian couple. Sin is sin. There are no BIG sins and small sins.
Yes, the mega churches have LOTS OF MEMBERS, but what are they being taught?
It all comes from the head. If the head if hating, preaching hate and everything else but what the Word Of God says, that’s where you’ll find the majority of people flocking to.
No one wants to hear about love, and they certainly aren’t & don’t won’t to read about.
Peter was absolutely right. Franklin NEEDS to look in THE BOOK , READ THE BOOK, SEARCH the scriptures that’s in THE BOOK for in them lies ALL TRUTH.
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I do hope you also refuse to bake cakes for 2nd marriages after a divorce, for weddings where one party was born out of wedlock, for the obese couple who are trying to wed and for anyone who has ever lied that tries to marry. Stay strong to blocking business to all the above and I will be able to validate your response.
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Agree, and would add that the author is very condescending, which is not very Christ like!
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As a non-christian, it seems apparent to me that Christians are conflicted. The Old Testament and the New Testament are in direct opposition to each other. Should they believe in the hate and fear professed in the Old, or should they love everyone as Jesus proclaimed. I almost feel sorry for them because they have no solid belief system, every belief contradicts another. This is how religion controls people. They have to have someone to follow. To tell them what they should be believing. This woman obviously chose to live in the fear and hate of the Old Testament.
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I’m not as kind and sweet as the small-church pastor, whose open letter was brilliant. I’m a victim of spiritual abuse, and I can tell you, flat out, you’re wrong. You wouldn’t know the truth if you ran smack into it. You’ve no idea what your talking about. These mega church pastors are rock stars who will go to any length to make the money they need to prove their points and that they’re called of God. They NEED those big bucks to survive and continue their celebrity status. So, if YOU and your rebuttal here are an example of Christianity, I want nothing to do with it. You were obviously bothered by the true Christianity overflowing in the small-church pastor’s letter. And that’s my point. Hold up a mirror in the face of a “Christian” Trump supporter, and what do you get? A response like yours. Flat, meaningless, and self absorbed. Go read your Bible and this time, open your eyes when you do it.
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~ The Christian Dilemma:
The greatest threat to America, and indeed to the rest of world, at this point in history, comes from the staunch advocates of right wing ideology, and I must submit this warning to you: There is a grave problem with the right wing movement, in that; they seem to possess a distorted sense of entitlement. They’ve set themselves apart, and seem to think that their faith gives them the right to view the world from a platitude of conceit, through condescending eyes, and with a false sense of superiority. They actually believe themselves to be superior beings, with a manifest destiny and some strange notion that God is on their side. A people with a desire to conquer, under the false guise of Christianity, seeking to dominate in the name of Christ, their view of humanity being reduced to nothing more than a matter of “us” and “them”.
What they fail to realize is; if the Christ you believe in leads you to view other humans as lesser beings, then you are a follower of the anti-Christ. The plain truth is; God doesn’t have a religion and God doesn’t discriminate. Any religion that professes to be the only true religion, or that they‘re special in the eyes of God preaches false doctrine. If the Spirit of God is truly with you, it will only be known by acts of “unconditional” love and charity. No religion can claim exclusive rights to God. He belongs to all that He has created, and to foster a belief in “us” and “them” is to divide humanity, not unite it.
And so it will be, in The End, that those who have set themselves apart from their fellow man will find that they have set themselves apart from God. The worth of a soul will only be measured by how much it has loved, nothing more, nothing less. Woe to those who have taken the widow’s mite and built castles and empires in His name. They have incurred a great accountability, their suffering will be unending.
Even Jesus will not claim to be Christian, but will only proclaim the glory of the Father. And when He returns they will shout: “Here we are Lord!” And He will respond: “I never knew you”. They have forsaken the Word and have become prisoners of the Numbers.
Those who have put themselves first will be last.
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Once more… ~ The Separation Of Church And Hate:
There is a good reason why Church and State must always remain separate. Let’s get something straight, right from the start: A theocratic state is not a free state, and never will be. I’m sure it was never Jesus’ intention nor was it His will that anyone should be dominated in His name, the name of Christ. That is the will of men. To be accurate, the concept in itself is anti-Christian. You can only follow Christ by choice, not by legislation.
It seems some people are more intent on casting stones at perceived sinners than propagating the love of Christ. ~ “Above all else, I command you love one another”. ~ This was the message that Jesus preached, and as far as I can see, the worth of a soul will only be measured as such. But I can assure you of one thing, when your time of judgment comes, you won’t be asked to recite scripture, but rather, if anything, the question will be: Did you get the message and live by it?
For all of you people out there on the religious right, you should try to remember that looking for sins to condemn, and people to persecute in the name of God, is simply Satan’s way of keeping you from seeing what is good and praiseworthy. It’s Satan’s favorite means of deceit; getting people to hate and kill each other in the name of God and Christ Jesus. Twisting scripture to incite hatred and division.
Understand this; that by doing so, you are defaming the name of Christ, associating Jesus with bigotry and hate. Jesus was never cursed with these feelings, these sins that you commit in His name. It’s widely agreed that He rose above it all, and to use His name for the justification of spreading contempt and hatred for anyone is true heresy. It isn’t Pro-Christ by any means, but clearly Anti-Christ.
*******************************************************************
~ It doesn’t really seem to matter at this point if you believe in God and Christ or not. What we have are Anti-Christians, the antithesis of the persona Jesus, and they are attempting, through legislation, to declare America to be a theocratic state and nation, legitimizing discrimination under the false guise of “religious freedom”. If you’re not one of the “chosen” you’re fair game for persecution, oppression and abuse. It’s a perfect “us” and “them” scenario. If you express opposing views to the “Order” or you’re a non-believer, or in any way perceived as a “sinner”, they’ll be coming for you.
~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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PEGGY THAT PREACHER IS SAYING THE TRUE WORD, SORRY MY OPINION ON BOTH GRAHAMS THEY ARE NOT GOD CHOSEN THEY ARE HIPOCRITES TAKING MONEY AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE TO GET RICH AND THEY ARE BIG TIME RACIST EVIL MEN IT SHOWS BIG TIME ANYONE INVOLVED WITH TRUMP LIKE THEM THEY ARE THE SAME PERSON GREEDY RACIST EVIL MEAN THAT IS NOT GOD PEOPLE PERIOD!!
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Could you please direct me to the scriptures that says banking a cake for same sec folks is an abomination?
Galatians 5:22-23
The fruit of the Spirit is love Joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no.
John 13:34-35
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
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Peggy,
Compromise has entered the church to such a degree that sin is overlooked and diversity is rewarded and acceptable. The Bible is now used to fit whatever your personal position supports, regardless if it actually goes against biblical, moral behavior. Lets just include those who practice biblical peversion, as though it is normal and acceptable, and if you don’t agree, you’re not a true Christian. (Amongst other less flattering names) Just slap someone in the face with a few scriptures taken out of context to support your view and insult the others. Problem is, the others side can do the same. If you just pick and choose scriptures and don’t apply the context, and culture of the society and time (which is relative and essential to understanding scripture) then you can make it mean whatever you want, especially If you are liberal. Then the Bible is a book to support compliance. Therefore, even Christians today are “calling those things which are evil good, and good evil.” It’s a no win situation. The enemy of our soul has even divided the church. Divide to conquer is satan’s best too. It’s worked for him for a long time. A
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The Bible also says in 1 Cor 5-9-13 “9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
Or did you miss that part?
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Agree.
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Peggy…you need to (IN LOVE) go back and read what he said again. He said THE LAW and he’s right according to what the BIBLE say! What does in the world but not of the world mean?
.
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The buffet Christianity. Picking and choosing what makes you feel comfortable about the Bible is wrong and every religion practices it to some degrees. This Shows a distinct lack of faith. If you believe it is wrong fine you can however by persecuting those you don’t like then you show a desire for instant gratification when it comes to Devine judgement. God is the judge by trying to do what you feel is his work you show a lack of Faith that he will see sin and punish as he sees fit. Christians in this country are not being Persecuted. You are using your belief to persecute and hurt others who believe differently then you. It’s a Bielefeld attempt against those you fear without getting to know them. If they are evil or Wrong why would God allow them to exist. Have more faith in God and find a new hobby persecution of those you don’t agree with is not the way .
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People like you are the reason I stopped going to church! You preach hate….Jesus Christ preached love. Christians like Franklin Graham are the persecutors, not persecuted….wake up! All Mr. Graham wants is your $$$$$.
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Leviticus 11 says there are many things that are an abomination, eating pork, shellfish. The New Testament changed many things. Just because you bake a cake does not mean you support gay marriage. Showing love is more important. Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind. LOVE your neighbor as yourself…(even if you believe they are sinners) Jesus is the judge not you. Let them work it out with the Lord. Are there any of you here who have not sinned? Let them cast the first stone.
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Franklin Graham’s salary last year alone was $1,200,000 . He is a money-grubber. And over a million dollars is just his salary alone, let alone the additional accommodations he gets when he takes his hypocritical show on the road. It’s pathetic and sad that people like you are so lacking in education that you can’t see him for what he is. And, as far as refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex couple because the bible says it is a sin, (which, if you consult with educated religious scholars, is debatable anyway) what about all the other things that are deemed a sin in the bible– mixing fabrics, eating any part of a pig, shrimp, lobster, scallops, working on the sabbath, trimming a beard, women speaking at church, divorce, marriage after divorce, women helping their man in a fight, wearing fancy jewelry, tattoos, tearing clothing, etc. As Christians, we must follow the words of the bible, and hopefully, people like you won’t continue to be a hypocrite and cherry pick only the nice things the bible instructs. And when it comes to poverty and riches, it is the people like Graham who should be most careful about managing donations from his followers and not break the covenant with God which says the following about being rich; Those who have been blessed with wealth must share generously with the poor (Matthew 25:31-46) and avoid “greed” (Luke 12:13-21). Jesus said to his disciples” …it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” “No one can serve two masters….You cannot serve both God and money.” (NLT, Luke 16:13).
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Agreeing to bake a cake for a same sex couple is NOT agreeing with their sin. If we use that philosophy then housing an alcoholic, praying with a woman who just had an abortion or giving food to a drug addict is agreeing with their sin. Do you think every one of the 5000 Jesus fed were sinless?
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It’s obvious you worship something else more than you worship the King. However, you do not understand that because you believe that having a large church is somehow a sign that someone is not doing a good work for the Kingdom! There is absolutely no scripture in the Bible to back up your very ignorant claim! How DARE you blaspheme the Holy Spirit that way. YOU are NOT God and YOU are not the determinant of who is making the greatest impact for the Kingdom. HOW DARE YOU. You are the worst hypocrite I have ever seen on any board, saying that Franklin is doing a better job because he has more “followers.” How do you know what he does behind closed doors, when the cameras are off? Do you know who is donating all the big money? FYI: Jesus was HOMELESS and had NO MONEY. WAKE UP. You INFURIATE me with your careless judgement. No wonder so many people don’t want to go to church because people like YOU. You ought to be ASHAMED of yourself. PHARISEE
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Peggy, get the beam out of your eye. No where in the NT does anyone speak of someone else’s sin. Christ, Paul, et. al. talks about our sin. I don’t have to agree with anyone’s belief system. I don’t agree with the Church of Christ saying they are the only ones going to Heaven, I’d still bake a cake for them.
“A church is to grow not to worry about who you offend.” How wrong you are. If you offend a seeker, you may be driving him off.
And what about the sin in your life. Maybe someone should not serve a sinner like you. Remember, you also are guilty of homosexuality! James 2:10 “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.” No wedding cake for you sis.
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I take it you believe a baker also should not bake a cake for anyone who isn’t Christian. Or who is an adulterer. Or is on their second- or third-marriage (Unless their spouse either died or had been unfaithful). Or if the bride isn’t a virgin.
Somehow I suspect your brand of Christianity doesn’t realize how selective it is in being rigorously judgmental against one select group of people–but only that one.
Why is it that same-sex couples are the ONLY ones whose sin is bad enough to demand discrimination, yet any other sinner gets a pass?
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People like you, Ms. Peggy, have driven this Christian away from the church never to return. Your are sick and evil. You give Christianity a horrible name.
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I agree with you..
And I simply say… AMEN !! ❤️
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Leviticus 11:10-12 Whatsoever hath no fins or scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
Translation: Eating Lobster, Shrimps, Crabs, and Oysters, and anything else that is not an actual fish, are an abomination. So does this bakery bake cakes for weddings where there are lobster, shrimp, crab, or oyster being served? How about pork? Because eating pork is also an abomination (Leviticus 11:7). Sex with someone you’re not married to (fornication), adultery, and lying are also abominations, but I’m sure that the bakery will have no problems baking cakes for birthdays or whatever for people who do these things. If anyone is going to refuse business to anyone who goes against the bible’s teachings, then they will be out of business. Just something to consider.
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Great
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Peggy Barnett
We won’t go into all the spelling and grammatical errors in this missive. It would take too long and is probably the fault of homeschooling by uber-religious parents rather than being your own fault.
So, on to the rest of it……….
If Heaven and Hell and gods and other imaginary things existed, you and Mr Graham (either of them) would not be a good advert for them. A small town pastor, ministering regularly to the day to day needs of a small flock of sheeple does far more than some over-rich mouthpiece spouting Hell-fire and damnation to a stadium full of mugs come to be separated from their money.
If Jesus existed, he would be ashamed of you and your kind. According to his biog he saw his ministry as caring for the needy not merely counting the number of idiots he could convince to listen to him babble and give him the wherewithal to fly private and live rich.
The Grahams, Osteens, Dollars, would do well to remember that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the non.existent Kingdom of Heaven. These are the people who turned me off religion. Do they subtract people like me from their totals, or do they not acknowledge this failure?
This small-town pastor gets it. Even if gods do not exist, his life will have meant something to the people he looked after. His passing through this life will leave the world a better place.
All these rip-off merchants, who sail through selling fake salvation to desperate people, leave nothing in their wake but poorer people. They would be the equivalent of the money-hungry merchants that your saviour purportedly drove from the Temple with a bullwhip.
Maybe you should go and hug a lesbian, feed a homeless man, visit your elderly neighbour. Clock up your brownie-points that way instead of singing more loudly, praying more fervently, or spouting ignorant bullshit in the comments section.
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Small churches are the backbone of this country. The big mega-churches are only in it for fame and money!!! You can tell by how slick and shiny everyone is. I’ll stick with my beliefs – nature is my church.
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AllGood points thank you!
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Amen to that Peggy Thanks for putting it so well I agree with you.
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So, if a Christian gun store owner sells a gun to someone, and regardless of background checks and waiting periods, that person kills someone else in cold blood, first degree murder, then does that mean the gun store owner sinned because he supplied a deadly weapon to someone who doesn’t follow the Ten Commandments?
And what are you doing out of the kitchen? Seriously. Because liberals are why you’re out of the kitchen and allowed to post here. You’re welcome.
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No cake for you. Or them. Or those people. Or babies and Mom’s and Dad’s. Otherwise you are agreeing with their sin.
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Amen
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“Your church is small cause you are afraid of disagreeing with same sex marriages or hurting someone’s feelings.”
Not likely. I know quite a few pastors of small churches, Peggy. And they have two things in common: 1. They have day jobs. 2. The agree with this pastor. You look at the Bible, ma’am. The message of Jesus is love they neighbor, heal the sick, feed the poor, comfort the elderly, visit the prisoners. That’s what Jesus did. You read too much into the words of Paul of Tarsus (Saul) and not enough into the words of Jesus. Is Paul > Jesus?
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Peggy Barnett, you took the words right out of my mouth.
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Ms. Peggy Barnett: You are so very concerned about the sin of baking a cake. I take it to mean that you have the time to pay attentiin to that because you have already made sure that every child in your neighborhood has enough food every day? I assume you have made sure that every sick person in your neighborhood has health care. No? Do you really think that Jesus gives a damn about a cake, when his children are dying because they can’t afford to see a doctor? I suppose you think Jesus is happy when a woman dies of breast cancer and leaves 3 kids behind because she couldn’t pay for chemo, but Jesus is sad about a cake? Ms. Barnett, it is you who will rot in Hell when Jesus comes and says “why didn’t you take care of the sick, the poor, the children” and you reply “But Lord, there was this cake that was more important!”
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Sophie, you missed the point. The bakers didn’t refuse service because the couple were homosexuals. They refused because it was for an event which in their view contradicted their sincere religious beliefs. If a married man and woman asked for the cake for one of their children’s “homosexual weddings” they would have received the same response. It was not the people, it was the event. To bake a cake for something like that would have implied an endorsement for an event which they could not endorse.
Let me ask you, would you bake a cake for someone — anyone (homosexual, black, Asian, Muslim, Christian, etc) — who wanted it for a celebration party for Ashley Madison’s success in promoting adultery in America?
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In my opinion, these “churches” have become the golden idols that christians are mean’t to be wary off. The sign of a true follower of God, is not what we preach, but what we do.
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And Franklin puts his money where his mouth is. His actions speak louder than words! He has helped far more poor, displaced, hungry, sick and other needy people than most people could ever dream of doing. He works in some of the worst hell holes in the world, helping people in need. He does not turn his back and walk on the other side of the road when he sees people in need.
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Would you bake a cake for a liar? The Bible states that a lying tongue is an abomination so I guess by your rules & standards you better not bake that cake either. Yes the Bible states that homosexuality is an abomination but just because THAT is not your sin you don’t get to ignore the rest of the things that the Bible states as abominations. They are found at Proverbs 6:16-19. BTW, don’t take these verses as a reason to snub other people because we all know that you fall into at least one of these categories.
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Sherry, you’re missing the point. The bakers didn’t refuse service because the couple were homosexuals. They refused because it was for an event which in their view contradicted their sincere religious beliefs. If a married man and woman asked for the cake for one of their children’s “homosexual weddings” they would have received the same response. It was not the people, it was the event. To bake a cake for something like that would have implied an endorsement for an event which they could not endorse.
Let me ask you, would you bake a cake for someone — anyone (homosexual, black, Asian, Muslim, Christian, etc) — who wanted it for a celebration party for Ashley Madison’s success in promoting adultery in America?
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Peggy, I respectfully disagree with what you are saying. The gospel of Jesus is this: Jesus said “it is finished”. He died and rose again and the New Covenant of God was established in Him. That new covenant is this: Jesus did away with sin forever. Past, present and future sins…..for everyone. Preachers need never preach sin again, let alone hot. Now….they preach God sent His precious son, Jesus, to be every single human beings sin offering. Paul never preached sin, he preached Jesus and Him crucified, resurrected and triumphant against all sin, Satan, demons, and death. There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. In ephesians He is risen, seated at God’s right hand and everything is under His feet. He is the head of the church (His people) and we, His people are the body. Therefore, all hints are under our feet as well in HIS name and HIS authority.
We no longer have to bring people to God using guilt, shame or condemnation, that is the old law covenant. It was established to show people their NEED for a savior. Now we have the savior, Jesus. He’s commission is for us, His children, His church, to “love one another as I have loved you” and to show that love in every single way. In Jesus, we bake that cake for anyone, especially the worst sinner out of love. Then we hand deliver it and ask if we can do anything else for them. Jesus accepted everyone. He went out of his way to specifically meet a Samaritan woman who was sinning at the Jacobs well at noon, the hottest time of the day.
Hon, the WILL of God is this: Jesus did it all. Bought and paid for it with everything HE had. We add nothing. No holiness, no good deeds, no preaching of sin. We preach Him. Why? Because He did it all and we owe Him everything. We love and forgive and lead everyone to His feet so they see Him and His deep abiding love for us . We see once and for all how much we are a mess. How nothing we do or say makes us even worthy of this grace and truth. We say thank you for paying my debt. We get up clean and pure, with born again spirit of God living in us. We then are forever grateful for the payment of our debt and we share it with everyone going to hell. We lift them up, show them love, compassion and mercy and show them Him, who can do the same for them. Then if they are sinning, God addresses the issue with them and He convicts them. He never condemn them or their sin. He shows them His best plan and they, like myself, are forever grateful to pursue that plan because of this: we are the righteousness of God IN Jesus Christ. Now we want to do what the word of God asks of us because we love Him and not because someone convinced us that we’re going to hell if we don’t quit. Satan is a liar and the condemer and accuser of the brethren……Jesus is the savior and the sacrifice for the brethren.
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You’re speaking with an authority that hasn’t been given to you. God is the only judge of sin and we all fall short. The size of a church is not a determination of its purpose or usefulness to God’s purpose. My dad brought the gospel to countless numbers of people. Seriously, we lost count. We received letters for years after his death from people who he witnessed to at bus stops, in diners, in line at the DMV, door to door (in CA mind you) for decades.. every Sat. He was “old fashioned” and unassuming and didn’t lead a large congregation and for the last several years wasn’t a pastor.. but that never kept him from his calling. He memorized entire chapters of the Bible and he lived them wholly and completely. He was loving and generous and sat and spoke with love to my niece who came out as gay. He didn’t judge her because he was not her judge. Hos purpose was to love and share God’s love through grace. God not only fed sinners.. he dined WITH sinners even as he did not condone their sin. Sit with that and open your heart to what the scripture actually reveals about how we should be with other sinners. I do believe we need to try to live in God’s grace and as far outside of our sin as we’re able.. but we have no authority.. NONE.. to do anything other than to treat others as He commands us to.
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You seem a bit confused. Maybe I can clarify something for you. Bigger is not always better. Matthew 7:13-14 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
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Hate the sin, but love the sinner, bake them a cake and witness to them, there is an opportunity to share Jesus right there in front of you ,but yes you have eyes to see but yet you see not
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Peggy, Jesus knew that the sinners needed to be fed. He fed them on his example, love, and compassion. He sat and ate with the tax-collectors and sinners. He gave money and food to sinners. Who are we to say that his actions and examples aren’t good enough to be models in our lives, sinners that we all are?
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The comments in support of Franklin Graham are so sad to read, and not in support of God, but rather … the false gods they are slow to recognize.
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Nicely said.
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So, do bakeries now have customers fill out a form detailing their personal lives in order to make sure they don’t serve anyone who has committee a “sin”? I’ll bet that sure has cut back on the amount of customers those bakeries have. Just imagine. You’d have to refuse service to anyone who ever lied, or took some money out of their mom’s purse, or cheated on their spouses or taxes, or swore, or worked on Sunday, or daydreamed about their sexy next door neighbor and on and on. I guess from now on NOBODY will get a wedding cake or birthday cake or doughnuts or brownies or anything else from the bakeries who insist they can’t sell to anyone who has sinned. ROFLMAO!!!!!
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You’ve missed the point. The bakers were not discriminating against the people, they were simply not wanting to be a part of an event which they considered a desecration of true marriage. If a married couple (man and woman) came in to make the same request for a “homosexual wedding” ceremony they would have gotten the same response. If they homosexuals who were supposedly so offended had asked for a birthday cake or a cake for some other purpose, they would have received the service. It was not about the “people” it was about the event. That make a huge difference.
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Peggy, I bake cakes for sinners all the time. Heck I’ve been baking cakes for my imperfect children for 25 years. I don’t agree with their sins, but I still love them. Fortunately someone usually makes me cakes for various occasions also, knowing fully well that I’ve been guilty of many sins. I never saw it as an “I-applaud-your-sins” cake. (Is that what devil’s food is?) Your point is interesting, and needs further reflection on my part, because I don’t get your connection at all.
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Well, Lord have mercy ,I pray because I can not understand that many Christians turned a blind eye in my opinion Paula White comes to mind .Donald Trump supporters ,I can not begin to express the craziness this makes,no sense,but I will keep praying staying with Jesus
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Amen!
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Amen!
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Amen!
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Your premise that having a small church is a sign of failure is wrong in so many levels. I’ve always had growing churches so don’t assume that I’m defending myself. It’s just that I so disagree with that statement. There are small town churches that , proportionally, have a larger percentage of the town where they minister in. Also this is belittling the sowers and ignoring the shoulders we stand on.
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I agree with you peggy, As a Christian I will bake them a cake, But also as a Christian, I cannot furnish them a wedding cake to celebrate what God calls and abomination.
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I disagree as well. I wrote why on this thread. This is ridiculing and not understanding or loving on the writers part. And you don’t go humiliating people in public.
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Peggy you are not a Christian and Franklin Graham is not a man of God.
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If there is no sin in Gods kingdom, why is there a bible? How about David who was made King! Just one example
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Peggy Barnett, the only thing I liked about your response was where you said, “I could say more but I’m not going too, so I’ll end it here.” Too bad you didn’t start with that, then quit. The mark of God’s anointing isn’t a large congregation. It is doing the Lord’s will: To do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with Him.
Jesus was known to be a Friend sinners. He never told us to hate those who don’t yet, or who DO know him but who fail to follow the narrow, small-minded pattern of the “dominant” American church.
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Samaritan’s Purse reported gross receipts of $414,031,085 during the 2010 federal tax year.[11] According to 2014 data, Graham is the highest paid Samaritan’s Purse employee at $622,252 annually and leads other charities in compensation
No pastor, priest, church leader should be making $622,252.00 a year salary – that is absurd – do you know how many people could be fed on that in this country
The fact that he is head of the Samaritan’s Purse which had gross receipts of over $414,000,000. count the zeros honey is crazy He is a freaking money making TV evangelist
No head of a “charitable organization” should have a salary of $622,252.00 a year, maybe $35,000. a year too much money going to the Chief and not enough to the indians that are needing charity
He should be ashamed of himself, just as his dad should have been, money making racket
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God bless you Peggy. Well said !
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How many souls have you saved Peggy? Can you show me a scripture in the bible that says you need to have a big church to be considered “doing your job right”? Just curious. Thanks!
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Oh, my, God. I usually am afraid to respond to people who cannot really think for themselves but have some one such as Franklin Graham do it for them. They look upon their God as a vengeful God, not a loving, forgiving one. Small churches are the bedrock of Christianity, they do the real work of the Lord. They open their doors and hearts to the needy. They are economically disadvantaged because of the work they do, being in the “trenches” to help everyday people such as you and I. Persons who make a fortune off religion are not really helping more people, they are helping themselves at our expense.
I do hope you find salvation in your own way, however it may be.
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Hello I hope I’m speaking to the lady who wrote this letter – Peggy did you write this letter above, well if you did I agree with you AMEN SISTER !!! It Is an abomination to be a homosexual in this world and I’m not afraid or ashamed to proclaim this In Jesus , It’s In the Bible , It’s God’s words and God don’t lie he hates sin. What saddens me is I read this post on my soon to be mother-in-law Jayne’s Christian post on Facebook , is she out of her mind ??? Really ??? I know my soon to be mother-in-law don’t like Trump but she and the people who made this post say we should be equal with everyone and love them lol , but where’s the love and prayers for the president , sounds a little biased. Anyway oh well what can one do , all I know is God says we are NOT as Christians suppose to condone the behavior of the sinner and not to go along with them as if nothing is wrong – Peggy , you know what’s sad right now by the post that these other people made that we both have just read ??? It’s sad because these same people will be tricked and fall for the biggest lie on earth , and they will take the mark of the beast when it starts being put on peoples hands and foreheads in the form of a microchip here in this country and yes I’ve already cried watching a video on YouTube of Europeans taking the mark , It’s already happening and these people didn’t know what they were doing and they were oblivious to what they just did like they just got a haircut or something and they were happy laughing and everyone was just excited for the new technology to be implanted into them. It was awful to see this , like watching a mass suicide. They didn’t even realize that they just killed themselves spiritually and cut themselves off from God , and who else was laughing in the corner about this ??? Satan he wants people to destroy themselves.Did you see what that pastor wrote to Mr. Franklin Graham , he said we should go along with the government and the laws , well so if the government and laws make it a law to kill people openly, steal someone’s property , etc – do we just do it because It’s a law ??? How crazy does that sound ??? I don’t agree with laws today at all they are corrupt and evil , like abortion , that’s killing innocent people (baby’s) but still human life. Well Peggy we wont win this war Satan owns these people , sister lets wait upon The Lord for the rapture or departure which ever happens , I know God will be with us when he destroys this evil world and the satanic lawlessness in these people , they love their sin and they flaunt it in front of God , just wait God will destroy the wicked – God calls them snakes and vipers and wickedness. But boy oh boy no we are just haters and should love all evil doers and sinning and saying its ok , well , I don’t listen to possessed Satanic people so , I guess just pray that The Lord comes soon , God Bless You Peggy , Stay Safe Take Care – In Jesus Christ Your Sister In Christ , Born Again Saved By Grace , Baptized In The Holy Spirit , Pentecostal Christian Friend – Amy Jean ❤ See You On The other Side In The Rapture 🙂
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Peggy, you have absolutely no idea why some churches remain small. The pastor doing his job may be the very reason it is small. Narrow is the way, the Bible says. Strangely, you admonish Peter not to judge a book by its cover, yet you proceed to judge a matter (the size of his church) when you know nothing about it. The size of a church will never be the indicator of whether the truth is being preached or not. Look at all of the individuals in churches who do not reflect the love of Christ. It is much easier to be a part of such a large body, rather than one that truly reflects the holiness of Christ. I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, too. But I also recognize that the racial hatred that Donald Trump and his followers, including Franklin Graham, display, grieves the heart of God. Homosexuality is one sin. There are many more, such as lying, adultery, racism, profanity, prejudice, and of course, the list goes on. As far as Franklin not being in it for the money … are you serious?
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Amen, Peggy Barnett…in the first reply I posted should be directed to your post.
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I trust Franklin Graham’s judgement as far as I can throw him–his claims of God speaking to him are delusional. This is America, and we still have the right to be free of your religion.
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Amen
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I would first recommend looking up the Biblical definition of abomination. It means something that goes against the strict ritualistic Jewish laws, such as not eating pork. You are not Jewish and the New Testament got rid if these ritualistic laws for followers of Christ. Second, I would re-think whether serving someone who is judged a “sinner” in your mind in a place of business is agreeing with that person’s sin. If that were the case, no Christian could ever go into business because everyone has sinned and will sin. We are human! Third, I would suggest being less judgmental of gay people. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Be kind to them the way you would want someone to be kind to you. Turning them away with harsh words and saying, “you’re a sinner,” is not kind. Judge not lest you be judged. It is the Christian to do. It is the right thing to do. Jesus woukd have baked the wedding cake and then invited them to dinner.
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I agree with you on the matter of not baking a cake for a homosexual couple. If one doesn’t live by Godly principles, then they should not be blessed with a cake by a business that makes wedding cakes to bless married couples under God’s definition of a marriage. Thank you for standing on this point.
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I have to disagree with your post on many points. 1. We don’t know the size of the community and there are many churches that are small and yet do great works because the members are more committed and active than many of the big church attendees. Churches don’t need to spend huge amounts on buildings and salaries; the work is done one to one. (Check out the annual reports for BGEA).
2. This generation’s “sin” is the same-sex issue. 50 years ago it was divorce. A divorcee was a scorned woman, the children were labeled. These were sinners good church people didn’t associate with. Yet God hates divorce, that’s written over and over. And the word “hate” is the word used…. and in the eyes of God you are considered married to anyone you have sexual relations with. Yet today divorce and sex outside of marriage runs rampant with no condemnation. Why??? Well, since that doesn’t sit well with today’s Christians, we moved on to bashing other minorities, their sin becomes worse than ours. .
Matthew 25:31-40 really says it all. We’re not to sit in judgement, we are to feed the hungry, care for the sick and house the homeless….. because, if we do it to ONE we do it to Jesus.
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I agree that Christians have caved on the matter of divorce and extra marital sex. That still doesn’t make it right. And if we are not to “sit in judgment” why are so many on this site, including the author, judging the man (Franklin Graham) who has done more to “feed the hungry, care for the sick and house the homeless” than virtually any other Christian alive today? What’s wrong with this picture?
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Very very nicely put. Thank you!
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Well I don’t remember God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah for divorce. We are not sitting in judgement but the Lord is and since the Holy Spirit is with all those who are believers and followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, I think He is telling us something there don’t you? What He knows we know. It is also written in the Bible and that is every Christian’s guide. We love the sinner but hate the sin.
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Well said Angie. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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I think the point is that instead of finding reasons to hate, we should find ways to love
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Yet Trump has how many divorces and yet we excuse it or don’t care ! That’s the point of the letter we pick and chose what we want to call out as sin ! He’s saying life here isn’t that bad and that it’s a slap in the face to those who are actually persecuted for their faith !
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There is also a message in the Bible that clearly states. We are only as good as the poorest of all humanity.
AND, We don’t get to heaven by the good deeds we do. We are all sinners. Not one worse than the other..but, if there were one, it would be the sin of HYPOCRISY… that’s in the book too.
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I didn’t know baking cakes was an abomination! Wow!! I need to put my magnifying glasses on to find that in the Bible. Oh and ma’am, you’re a lover of Mammon.
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I believe you are referring to the baker who felt she couldn’t do so for a same sex couple as if it would support their “marriage”.
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Ignorance personified! Grammatical errors aside, a clear reading of the gospels affirms that Jesus died for the remission of our sins. And who is to say what constitutes a sin? The gospel according to Peggy Barnett? Or perhaps we should instead look to Jesus Christ. We know he wasn’t big on fornicators, nor adulterers. But he never spoke out against the gay community of his own time – not once. He did warn us against those who seek to judge us, and of those who seek to condemn the speck in our eyes but who “have planks in their own eyes.” Bigotry and discrimination against others is not a manifestation of God’s love, nor is it the love of Jesus. Miss Peggy may prefer the Old Testament’s teachings to that of Jesus Christ, but the New Testament lays out Christ’s message, just as it replaced the “old laws” through Christ’s having died for us! And, by the way, I don’t recall Jesus ever favoring large churches over the small. Where might it say that in the New Testament? I don’t believe it’s in the OT either!
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It’s going that way because of people like you lady. You my dear needs to think for yourself and get out there and see that this world is going to hel.because of hatred greed aND selfishness. Get over yourself. Take off your rose colored glasses aND privileged life and see this place as it really is. Don’t blame the commoners, blame the people in charge. Religious fanatics get us no where
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Baking a cake for people who you think are sinful shows you love them, not that you love their sin. Jesus asked the woman at the well for water.
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Jeff, you’ve missed the point. They would have baked a cake for these homosexuals if it had been for a birthday party, or some other occasion. But it was for a so-called “homosexual wedding”. That would have been participating in an event which desecrates the true meaning of marriage, and would be totally against their sincere religious convictions. If a single person or man and women came in who were married and asked the same request — that the cake be made for a “homosexual marriage”, they would have received the same response. It was not discrimination against a “sinner”. It was to avoid taking part in an event which goes against the Word of God.
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You and your kind are like the fish as it’s pulled from the water. You thrash about and struggle, but in the end, your efforts are wasted. The world will go on and leave your hate and bigotry behind. Deep breaths.
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The Truth sets YOU free. The love of Christ in you sets others free.
It’s not up to us to always tell others the truth before we love them; but it’s always required of us to love them. Telling the truth is not always a demonstration of love.
Jesus demonstrated his love while we were sinners sinning.
Those living outside the truth before Jesus came, received only the law and we all know how that worked out.
The law could not accomplish a better solution. The law was used to demonstrate how people will never find love and truth until the better solution was demonstrated in the cross of Christ.
The truth sets others free when we demonstrate Christ’s love & not our desire to submit people to just correct behaviour.
Let’s not be naïve, there’s many will behaving people in bondage.
Performance is not a substitute for love nor is it proof that one is free.
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Sister Peggy; I too suppect that this “Pastor” has a pet sore and enjoys picking at it.
Where is his Love for those of us that dis-agree with his twisted logic?
It makes me wonder what “Sin” he is trying to justify in his own life.
I too am a “Small Church” member (under 200), that teaches and obeys the entire Gospel of Jesus Christ as directed by God’s Holy Spirit.
I will add this “Lost Lamb of God” as I do for all Ministers, even if I don’t agree with their personal oppions.
Our Lord’s riches blessing on you as you continue to stand for Righesness.
Rev. Jim
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Boy is your thinking skewed. His preaching and you regurgitating it is the very reason people are turning away from the church and INSTEAD toward Christ. Those of you who judge will be judged the hardest. Trust me on that girlfriend.
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The Bible says the sin of homosexuality is an abomination… not baking a cake for them!! Your position has no love for sinners. You would be in the same gang that was critizing Jesus when he ate dinner with tax collectors (thieves) and hookers. We LOVE the people even tho we hate the sin.
Read your Bible .. get away from man’s theology.
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Franklin Graham sold his soul.
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And no mention of 45…God is ❤️ not hate…and your Christianity does not make you anymore special than any of Gods children…many false prophets will come before you…which from your response sounds more of a personal belief than that of a real Christ like individual…praying your soul is free from hate/an all consuming disease….
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But they haven’t been won over to the true Christ if you judge them and persecute them. Clearly it is God’s place to judge. And he says to love the sinner, love your enemy. What Bible are you reading?
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You obviously oblivious why he says he is the pastor of small town church, small town churches are situated in small towns with small populations which also need to be pastored…it is a commitment some make leaving the possibilities of the limelight of densely populated areas to do God’s unsung it is not always necessary to pastor big congregations but pastors of small congregations have many times over in the history of christianity been the hand that planted the seed that grew the large congregations. Your diatribe is indeed misdirected. Conversely it has often times been that Pastors of big congregations and ministries planted by others before them that make spectacular blunders of judgement that tarnish the name of the Lord
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Peggy, I agree with you 100%. First of all I don’t think this so called letter, written by a Peter, is a real letter to Franklin Graham. What God fearing Minister that loved the Lord, would knock down another Minister. Wouldn’t he tell him he loved him & he was praying for him? As far as homosexuality is concerned, the Bible plainly tells us it is a sin. It was back then & it still is in 2017. If a person wants to live that life, it is between them & God. I’m not here to judge anyone. The Bible also tells us to not conform to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind so that you prove what the will of God is, that which is good & acceptable & perfect.
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Seriously??? I can’t figure out where some people get their bibles. It’s as though only the verses that confirm their own prejudices are included. You know, in the early days of the church there was a dude who wanted to edit the Bible. What he wanted to take out though was a lot of the hate filled, judgement and wrath stuff that Graham and his ilk read as though its bold faced and underscored. His name was Marcion and he was called a heretic. Graham would certainly agree with that call. He likes all that wrath and judgement stuff. But Jesus didn’t. Jesus talked about forgiveness, reconciliation, mercy and the unmeasured generosity of God. Too bad so many don’t really pay attention to Jesus.
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I’m sure in his small community there are a lot of people who don’t know Jesus Christ as there is in mine. It looks like his church is showing Christ’s love to all sinners as Christ loved us even though we have sinned. The question is, did the homosexual couple realize that the owners were Christian? Did the owners display Christ like love? (If the cake had been baked) God knows where our hearts are in how we treat others.
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So, Christian doctors shouldn’t help sinners since it would be agreeing with the sin? And we get to decide ourselves who is a sinner and act accordingly? Hmmm. Judge not lest ye be judged. Ridiculous reasoning.
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You are so right, Peggy. I couldn’t have said it better. God bless you.
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“Preach sin and preach it hot.” ah, here’s the difference! We preach the good news of Jesus Christ – the Gospel. And being a “successful” church isn’t about size. After all “Where two or three are gathered together, I am in the midst of them.” And as for moral judgement, which by the way is never on the lips of Jesus – but I digress – Jesus said that there are only two “laws”: (you) love the Lord with all your heart and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. I don’t believe you can fit your square peg understanding of law into this round hole of understanding our relationship with God.
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Soul winner…
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Why is love the object of your hate? Why does it not seem fundamentally wrong to objectify and villify those who form a loving, consensual bond to face life together? Let’s be clear, this is not about sex, but about partnership and testament. And a cake. A. Cake.
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Thank you Peggy for the truth…and the truth shall set us free…God says it and I believe it.
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Would you bake a wedding cake for people who lived together before marriage? If not, you go out of business. If so, then the entire argument that it wasn’t discrimination goes out the window.
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I guess you’d better start asking people if they are divorced or adulterers. Or gossips. I follow Jesus and love. Probably hang out with some money collectors or prostitutes tomorrow.
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Jesus said Love one another.
He didn’t then say unless they are gay, unless they are purple , unless they are short or tall. He said love one another.
Jesus loved the leper the least of any people His time. I truely believe He does love all of mankind. He turns no-one away.
He also threw the moneymakers our of the temple. No ordained man or woman, should benefit from preaching the Word. Period.
No person who calls themselves a Christian should be discriminating against another for their actions. That is God’s job.
Go become quite, listen to the Lord as He enlightens you to see His Light.
May God Bless you and open your heart and mind to His True Word.
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When you pass judgment on whether or not a pastor is a true follower of Christ and anointed by God based on the size of the church, and believe that spreading the Gospel needs money, it just shows that you do not truly understand the Gospel and the teaching in the Bible.
Ever heard of the prosperity gospel that perverse Christianity in the age and leading a lot of people to the road of eternal destruction? Go do some serious research about it and more importantly study the Bible in depth. Your comment shows that your belief has been poisoned by the prosperity gospel.
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Closeted thinking like this is why so many people flee Christianity. Her argument is all about quantity, not quality, Pathetic.
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THANK YOU PASTOR PETER FOR AN AWESOME LESSON ON CHRISTIANITY, THE ONE ROOTED IN THE HOLY BIBLE AND NOT THE CORRUPTED LESSONS WE HEAR PROFESS BY THE PROSPERITY PIMPS REMINISCENT OF THE CINEMATIC ELMER GANTRY, THE HARD-DRINKING, FAST-TALKING TRAVELLING PITCHMAN, A FLAWED PREACHER WHO IN REAL LIFE IS REMINISCENT OF JAMES WARREN “JIM” JONES WHO IN 1978 LED HIS 900 FOLLOWERS TO THE JUNGLE OF GUYANA ON A MASS SUICIDAL PACT. FRANK GRAHAM IS LEADING HIS FLOCK TO SPIRITUAL PERDITION WITH HIS ENDORSEMENT OF A SEXUAL PERVERT IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
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So, in the bible, Jesus was seen in a BIG church? Nope, the only time you saw Christ in a big church, was to tell them they were money changers. He wasn’t happy with the religious who took advantage of others in order to fill their own pockets.
Let’s NOT forget the MANY verses dealing with the rich man…or how about the verse that clearly states you CANNOT serve both God and Mammon? I find it funny that “Christians” want to label this very capitalistic society as a christian society. It’s ridiculous.
Oh and verse right after the one about homosexuality, talks about about eating bacon and not participating in adultery, but I don’t see anyone screaming those things are sins.
Bible say God HATES (the only time in the bible, that I can actually recall those two words together in the same sentence) divorce, but more than half of our population (“Christians” included here) divorce. Yet it’s somehow homosexuals who are destroying the “sanctity of marriage”. But, I guess that would impede the lives of Christians and straight people everywhere.
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Bingo! Well said!
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Amen and amen.
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Wow !! Such love and compassion. !!
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Franklin is doing nothing of the sort. He is ministering to the hungry, the sick, the poor, the displaced, the orphans and widows, and other very needy people in places where few other organizations will go. He is the opposite of the kind of characters you are comparing him to.
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JEAN AMEN AMEN AMEN YOU SAID IT YESSSSS
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Yes thank you to 4 o speaking the truth
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I agree! I am reading comments and in tears that people (Christians) can’t or won’t see what Christ is really about. He nailed this as did you.
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I agree
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Amen to you, and thank you! I am still in shock that so many of my friends wholeheartedly claim to be Christians and turn around and endorsed Donald tRump!
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Donald Trump was the least of the evils that were in the running, that’s all. So if you want to sit in judgement of people who voted for Trump, might I suggest you first gaze into the mirror and begin your judgement there. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
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Amen
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This is why the AMERICAN CHURCH IS ON A COMPLETE DECLINE IN AMERICA because we as FELLOW Christian’s or sheep kill our own LETS GIVE a little background on Franklin Graham SON OF BILLY GRAHAM WOW JUST SOME PASTOR FROM THE PAST BEEN OR PRAYED WITH EVERY PRESIDENT IN THE LAST 50 YEARS ALSO FRANKLIN GROWING UP HATED WHAT HIS DAD DID SO MUCH HE PRETTY MUCH RAISED AS MUCH HELL AND RAN FROM GOD AS ALL OF US ON HERE he is just going across this nation preaching the gospel and telling people outside the church about JESUS WHEN THE LAST TIME PETER YOU HAVE DONE THAT AND BY THE WAY TAKEN UP THE MANTAL OF YOUR FATHERS MINISTRY THAT’S BEEN GOING FOR THE PAST 50 PLUS YEARS BIG SHOES TO FILL PS CHRISTIANS STAY OUT OF POLITICS WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE GOING TO HELL INSTEAD
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While Billy Graham’s accomplishments may be laudable, they are not the accomplishments of his son. They also have little bearing on whether he is acting in the true spirit of what Jesus taught. For that matter, when Billy Graham “changed his beliefs” about a certain religion being a cult, immediately after a visit with a Conservative, ten days before an election, he showed how he will abandon his beliefs when politically expedient.
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He is preaching hatred, which is not part of the gospel and I think his father would be appalled at his fire and brimstone bs. You alternative Christians really don’t understand Christianity at all. Love thy neighbor as thyself. No ifs ands or buts.
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Wait. What? Are you saying that Christians need to stay out of politics? Ummm. Isn’t Franklin all up in politics business? Or am I missing something here?
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I don’t think the man who wrote the letter is really a pastor. When it is within our power we as Christians are to do everything to be unified, not spew hate on each other. Jesus followers know this.
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I can certainly see in Franklin Graham one big reason why just because your father was a high-powered preacher that does not mean that you belong in that position. and quit YELLING at me with all your caps. It’s shows the desperation of a bully rather than someone interested in well-reasoned dialogue.
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Mr. Curtis: you apparently didn’t read the letter carefully and consider its message. So what if Billy Graham flew around the world preaching and prayed with every president. He became a showman and lived a very comfortable life, the opposite of what Christ urged us to do. “Peter” is spot-on in pointing out the contradictions between the teachings of the Bible and the policies and politics of people like Rev. Graham the younger. Graham and the fancy preachers like him are the hypocrites.
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The “church” is on a decline because we have allowed sin to be part of the church. Franklin Graham doesn’t advocate “sin” in the church.
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Richard, please do not type in all caps–it is difficult to read and is simply inappropriate. As to your comments, though: The things for which you give Franklin Graham credit have nothing to do with his apparent lack of compassion for the poor and needy–the very individuals Jesus Himself came to serve. God is not impressed, as you seem to be, with his game and pedigree. Those are not the measure of a man. You should also know that the matters Peter speaks of, such as hatred and bias, are deeply spiritual; they are not political matters, and as a pastor–in fact, as a Christian–he has an obligation to be concerned about them.
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AMEN REAL BROTHER OF CHRIST !!!
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Richard Curtis – open your eyes!!! Franklin IS NOT carrying on his father’s legacy! Rev Bilky Graham did not preach hate! He did not talk down other religions.
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Hummm Richard, rich and powerful doesn’t make you eligible to redeem yourself!!!
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Sorry but a lot of them are Politicians.
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Sir – thank you. I’d visit your church any day. Just tell me where. You represent the God and Jesus I know. The one Frank speaks of is a stranger. Let me know and I’d gladly make a donation to your Sunday offering.
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He’s the son of Billy Graham, the presidents’ pet pastor. In Jesus’ time would he have been Pilate’s confessor? I’ll give him this: He stood up, refused to preach before segregated audiences, when that was an act of extreme courage. Still, a connection to Martin Luther King would have been a better recommendation. As to an evangelist being of better standing than a mere pastor, read I Cor. 14, where Paul, supposedly the greatest evangelist in history, affirms that other gifts are equal. As to endorsing Trump, read I Cor. 5, Gal. 5, wherein he commands believers to avoid adulterers, the greedy, the revilers, those given to a foul mouth. In II Thess. 2 he warns against following such. Read Dan. 8, 11and see how this fits Trump, whose business model seems p
atterned after I Kings 21. As to lineage, I challenge you to name one, just one evangelist whose son followed in his footsteps. (Oh yes, the Wesley brothers, whose father was a pastor. The sons did take up evangelism. Never did they use their name as a recommendation.
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Amen, Ditto, I’d meet you there… Pastor Peter has his eye on God and his focus is on the word, I’d love to visit his church.
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Amen, I thought the same thing. The small church pastor has given me alittle more faith back in humanity.
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Amen, well spoken! Pastor Peter is part of the problem in this Country with so called “Pastors”. Looks like he is being a stumbling block by criticizing an evangelist. Franklin Graham is going what he is called to do, which is preach the Gospel. Pastor Peter is on dangerous ground with God. I wouldn’t go into his church, I would be afraid it would fall don on his head!!
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Thank you for you letter that so eloquently states what many of us small-town Christians have been feeling. It is wrong for these “powerful man of the cloth” to be cozying up to politicians. We should not be holy mouthpiece for governmental authority. Render unto Cesar that which is Caesar’s. Render unto God that which is gods. His kingdom is not of this earth. We were made to reflect God’s grace, peace and mercy into his earth.
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Billy graham was visited in his home by many presidents and he visited the White House many times. It’s not cozy it’s encouragement for the hardest job in the world no matter who has it
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Absolutely. My God has no need of a political party. There is something very wrong about Christians holding up a group of politicians as all being “good Christians”. I am not saying none of them are but with the amount of money it takes to get into high state and national office it is very doubtful they are still very “good Christians”.
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Eloquently it was horribly sarcastic
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I agree
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I am from an Asian country and our ancesotrs cpnvertted into Christiannity in 1850 s. I am thrilled to read this article. A better thought provoking article. Good opportunity for me to know he realitiies of mega type , corporate ministries. Pastor Peter . thank you.
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It is very sad that you are using this as a basis for your knowledge of large churches and ministries…
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Amen !!
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Wow. Is this fake news propaganda?
Anonymous pastor Peter from anonymous small church sure is casting large stones. Franklin Graham has international connections and a birdseye view of things that we small town folks are not privy to. Maybe before public castration, pastor Peter should have private discussions with Pastor Graham to ask his exact views on above topics and know why he supports religious freedom for everyone, including Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc…?
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Finally a true Christian speaks up, I thank God for you truth and honesty.
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I applaud you Peter. Now that was the gospel truth. Amen and Amen.
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well Pete, you will always have a small church , maybe 30 , because God will not trust you with more people who you will not teach principles and stand for justice and righteousness that God laid out. Your idea that “love” means go along with those who violate God’s laws is absurd.
And your catty sarcastic letter is far what God would ever say – even to you.
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Bravo!!! Finally, a voice of reason (and humor) in the midst of the madness. Think I have a new Hero!
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Beautifully stated from a Pastor who seems to understand what it means to be a Christian.
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Interesting that you would seek to “correct” your brother in the Lord by using condescension and ridicule. I wonder if you could site the foundation for that in scripture?
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Amen!!
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How very sad you let Satan win the battle. Instead of venting on social media, why didn’t you go and speak to “Frank” yourself. I believe that is Biblical and is in your Bible. And don’t give me he wouldn’t see me, you didn’t even try. As a pastor, you have a lot to learn.
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Whatever truths you present are overcome by your smug attitude and snark. This is not correcting a Christian brother in love, it’s showing off and playing to the crowd. Kind of like Saul holding the coats. I don’t think this is the way Jesus would act.
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Dear Peter, I detect a bit of jealousy towards Rev Graham. One is as close to God as one chooses. He’s as close as the mention of His name.
Your little church might grow if you and your members got out and visited and lived before them like Jesus would have you live. Be an example of Gods love and forgiveness . Love the sinners doesn’t mean you have to go along with their sins.
If your letter is truly how you feel maybe it’s time to step down from the pulpit and let someone who has a better connection with God and His Holy Word take over your little church.
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Interesting letter Peter, indeed many have found their way into the house hold of God and in indeed become pastors. Interesting how you use populace issues to address a real Christian challenge, reading your letter looks to me like reading the writing of an undercover agent to sway a view.
So suddenly God was wrong to have defended and vindicated the three Hebrew boys in Babylon because they refused to do what the government of their time demanded of EVERYONE at the time as it was against their faith according to the word of their God Yahweh. Guess what, this was even at a time when there was no such thing as freedom of religion, freedom of faith or even freedom of association whatsoever. okay Peter, so someone has the right granted to associate with a person of the same sex and have a life, of course that’s freedom of choice and by all means, what baffles me is someone on the other hand not having the right to say no thank you to associating with another? come on, elucidate me Perter. How do you call that discrimination? and wait a minute, you really want to play the discrimination card, well get ready, here you go with the definition of the word and you used.
discrimination
dɪˌskrɪmɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
“victims of racial discrimination”
synonyms: prejudice, bias, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, unfairness, inequity, favouritism, one-sidedness, partisanship; More
2.
recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.
“discrimination between right and wrong”
synonyms: differentiation, distinction, telling the difference
“the discrimination between right and wrong”
So Peter lets row, I am sure you have a wife and you very well have SEX with your wife. Did you ever allow you Children at age five or under eighteen, to have partners (wives or husbands), and have sex with them? if they wanted to? or did you approve of them watching porn at those ages?common Peter you discriminated against their age. right there in the definition,
So you see proper life definitely calls some sort of ‘discrimination’ of a sort, so please back of that wagon. The issue is about social, civic and democratic rights enshrined by law being deprived not Private rights. I am not Sure Frank said the gay couple could not have their cake in the entire world.
Peter lets forget about faith religion and all that, lets come to civilisation, so Peter, since when did it become a crime for someone to turn down a Private Commercial deal in this world? please tell me. Because it is in the light of this that Frank feels persecuted. That is the true meaning of persecution.
As for trying to blow the crux of Franks mission out of context, I must say you scored over a 1000% you are definitely a pro on sophistry and propaganda. I am not sure Frank said Trump is right on grabbing young girls Vagina , but certainly in a context of noble course on another matter. But I can see a similar spirit if not same spirit of those who said of Jesus whose agent you claim to be, that he be wrong because he ate with sinners. Every human being especially me, and I believe Frank, are with some sort of a sin (even though not sure about you), from the past or even at present, but as to how that makes them wrong from buying food and clothes with their hard earned income for the homeless on the street in winter beats my imagination. May be Peter once again you can open my eyes to this.
Choose you this day whom you shall serve God or Mormon.
Being gay is a choice like all other things in this world. But that does not suddenly annul the freedom of association.
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Thank you Peter, I too am so happy to see the kind of Christian I know and relate to stand up to people like Frank and the others you mentioned. I really get angry listening to them as though the rest of us don’t know how to worship God or seems to be a different God. They certainty don’t seem to Worship the God I know and Love. Thank you for putting my thoughts and feelings into words that are Powerful and True. May God continue to Bless you and your Church.
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Although I agree with your point of view, I believe that in a real pastor to pastor letter or personal discussion the language would be less sarcastic and demeaning. I’m certain that Franklin Graham knows the people and the stories in the bible as well as you do. This was a reaching out and teaching opportunity to give your (our) moderate point of view to the very conservative Christians like Franklin Graham, but instead the message was more insulting than instructive.
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Wow brought me to tears. Only if we all could understand Gods word the way you do. Thank you and God bless you.
Sandra Hill Otto
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sir,you said, nothing is wrong with same sex marriage? Roman 1:18-24) God wrath is revealed! He gave them up to defile themselves!! The statement of it dose not matter is dangerous in Christianity. All of us will give account of what we allow.
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This is exactly why our forefather’s wanted the Separation of Church and State, Government doesn’t tell you how to worship, the church doesn’t tell the Government how to make laws.
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I was with you on all points except one- Romans 13:1 says “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”
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I like it. Well said. Let’s write a book together’
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Amen sir
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What a crock. If small town pastors are as cowardly and ignorant of Scripture as this liberal tool “Peter,” then we are indeed doomed as a nation. Rev Graham is one of the very few Christian leaders who are actually standing up for the truth as darkness attempts to destroy us, and all “Peter” can do is submit to Satan’s wishes and whine about those who refuse to compromise with the enemy. I have news for you “Peter,” the governing authority in the USA is the US Constitution. All leaders and/or laws that are not in accordance with that legal document are operating outside of God’s ordained authority and as such are not legitimate authorities the Christian is bound to submit to. You, “Peter,” if you indeed are a real Pastor (which I doubt) are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Your brand of liberal Christianity is a fraud, a counterfeit, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. In 1930s Germany it was people like you who sat back and did nothing while the Devil had a field day. The Lord rebuke you, and God bless Rev Graham.
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Amen brother.
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This is a real pastor!!! Wish I could be a part of his church! I hope that God’s heart is bursting with pride!!! – mine sure is!!!
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@#8 Jean Max Dorsinville Obviously you have never visited small churches in rural America. These churches and their pastors are doing their job, they are serving their communities. They are serving the elderly and poor in those communities who cannot, and usually do not wish, to travel to larger towns that have the larger churches. They are serving the families that grew up in those small communities and wish to worship with their friends and neighbors. Those preachers usually have a full time job elsewhere for these small churches operate on minimal budgets, but they answer a calling to fill the pulpits on Sunday and preach The Word. They are servants of Christ and we in the small rural communities that attend these churches are grateful.
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Franklin Graham inherited a thriving business from his father and must follow the established business model so as to not lose customer. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was never concerned about feeding the hungry, etc. their only concern was to save souls from the fire of hell. That’s how they made their money and to change their mode of operation would result in loss of income.
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Amen
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I am a person who’s attended Baptist churches in the South my entire life. While I agree with you on some points, I think you also have a few holes in your theory. Yes, there are many mega churches who thwart the true gospel of Christ in order to raise enormous amonts of money while their staff lives extravagant lifestyles. That bothers me as well. However, both Peter and Paul spoke out against homosexuality in the Bible, so I don’t think either of them would have been first in line to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple. There is a huge difference in feeding hungry people which the Bible clearly states is our duty as believers and baking a cake for someone. As Christians, we shouldn’t have to support a lifestyle that we beieve is wrong. That doesn’t give us a license to be hateful or spiteful. I have friends, even relatives who are gay, and I love them all and would never do anything to harm them or even put them down. I believe God loves them just as much as he does me. We are all God’s children, equally made in his image. Finally, Mother Emmanuel church is in Charleston, SC not Charlotte, NC.
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I wish the world could read this! It says it all!
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Really great letter. Thoughtful, reasoned, and for me, what religion should be about. Btw, I also attend such a wonderful and loving small church.
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Actually I am a Catholic. But contemplating Franklin Graham, and this entire situation, I understand a little better why my own church forbids its ministers to marry. It was for this reason exactly, actually: the intent was to prevent ministers of the gospel from passing their positions on to their sons, whether the son is actually qualified or not. We can debate clerical celibacy some other time, but I can certainly see in Franklin Graham one big reason why just because your father was a high-powered preacher that does not mean that you belong in that position.
I wasn’t a fan of Billy Graham particularly, but I think he was genuinely who he was. He certainly preached Christ in a powerful and effective way, and undoubtedly (though of course we can never know for sure) he was the means of salvation of thousands of people. He did not achieve wealth and prominence simply because of whose son he was.
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There is but one Commandment: to walk around in God’s Love. II John 6. Judgement is the Lord’s alone.
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Remember God used the Babylonians against his people, so God can use Trump and Franklyn too.
Habakkuk
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Thank you for the information. I had never heard that. It explains some things. I can still see two sides to the issue but at least it was not an unthoughtful decision.
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AMEN!!!
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Very good, drycamp! Well stated.
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Beautiful letter Peter.
I left the church almost 30 years ago because of the hypocrisy, hate, greed and bigotry I saw.
I wonder if I would have made the same decision if I had grown up around a church like yours. I suspect I wouldn’t have.
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This is amazing!! I wish there were more Pastor Peters in this world! 🙏🏼💕
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Well said, sir. Thank you.
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Reblogged this on Persona and commented:
I really love this common sense witty public letter. Fully deserved by the embarrassingly pathetic Rev. Frank Graham.
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Who is this Peter? He calls Franklin Graham out by full name, and yet hides in anonimity. While Mr. Graham is a well known public person, “small church Peter” is not, and for all we know, a made up name and title. An “open” unsigned letter is nothing more than his free right to hate speech. BTW “Pete”, I actually prefer small churches, and I like a lot of what this author is saying, but the Internet is just like a bathroom wall, anyone can say anything — that doesn’t make it true. And I don’t like people publicly calling out someone while hiding their own identity in order to remain safe from backlash themselves. Reminds me of another biblical saying “He who is without sin throw the first stone.” Pete just threw a hate load of stones, couched them in biblical terms to sound legit to make us wonder about the genuineness of Frank, and then ran like a coward back into the Internet shadows. If you feel like FG put a black eye on Christianity, then you just gave it a cowardly second. Show thyself Pete, and I will be more willing to listen to what you say… if not, please stay in your relative infamy and continue to do whatever it is you really do, wherever you are, without publicly tearing down others.
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Hey there Pete, let me call you Pete from one Pastor to another.
I too Pastor a small church of around fifty. Instead of all the retoric let me cut right to it. If it weren’t for people like Rev. Billy Graham and now his son Franklin Graham doing what they’ve done, Pastors like you and I would know first hand about the suffering of the persecuted church! They have worked tirelessly to make sure that we have had and get to keep the freedom that we desire to be able to write ridiculous letters like yours. They keep our religious freedom on the front lines everyday at so it doesn’t become an echo in the ears of Washington to all is things that have happened like Madeline Murray O’hare was able to get passed because of the the passive dead church and the progressives of our society. They have served God and country without thought of their own lives. Big money…. yes. It takes big money to fly help on the spur of the moment around the world, to provide clean water, hospitals, Operation Christmas Child and so many other worthy ministries that refuse to see color and social status. I submit to you that you take a dose of your own medicine and follow Psalm 105:15, and 1 Chronicles 15:22, and since the Lord said it twice. I’m pretty sure He meant what He said. I’m going to assume that a letter of apology is forthcoming and as for me, I forgive you and pray that this isn’t what you’re filling your congregation full of.
2 Timothy 4:2
Pastor Connie
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I’m afraid you haven’t read your Bible sir, or choose to omit some very important parts. The Lord is the same today as yesterday. He never changes. The Lord loves the sinner, but hates the sin. If you will remember also in the Bible He destroyed two cities because of sin and they wouldn’t repent from it. Maybe you remember Sodom and Gamora. We are to stand for what is right and not to pat the sinner on the hand and say I know how you feel, and that’s ok. I would be afraid to go to your Church sir, because you are not preaching the Bible. This is how Satan is winning the world over, by our acceptance of the sin, and not telling the sinner this is wrong, that the Lord loves you, but you can’t continue in this sin. Our Lord needs preachers to tell the truth and not go along with the sinner. You sir have not taken a stand with our Lord. I pray that your eyes will be opened to what you are to stand for. I ask that you pray very earnestly to the Lord to show you what is right.
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I noticed you didn’t mention the 13,000 innocent babies a day dying in the name of choice. How did you feel about that Peter? Can u call you Peter? Yeah that Thou Shall Not Kill is in that Top 10 thing you mentioned too!
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Well Pastor Peter, for someone that preaches to see past people s faults that you disagree with, You Certainly Used
2 Thirds if Your Letter to be Completely And Totally Judgemental!!!!
Youre ”Note” is Thinly Veiled on it’s
POLITICAL AGENDA. MOSES Murdered
A Guy with his bare hands, but look at all he did. Bible says
JESUS was Against POLITICS, WE See WHY Everyday,. YOU CANT SERVE
MAN AND GOD, CAN ONLY BE ONE KING
I HEAR YOU LOUD N CLEAR THOUGH.
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“Repent sinners; I was a sinner once myself.” But I don’t believe that “Frank” feels he ever sinned. The article sure nails it. Thanks!
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Thanks Peter,
It is refreshing to have Christians speak out for the infirm, hungry, and homeless among us.
I too have noticed Preachers telling people to be afraid.
My Bible has a phrase meaning “Be Not Afraid” 365 times.
I will go further than the Biblical phrase “Love thin enemy”.
It is my understanding that God Is Love and that is all that God is. God is never jealous or vengeful.
God never punishes anyone. With an entire Universe to run God has no time for such pettiness. Take a look around. Is it not obvious that we do more than enough to punish ourselves and each other.
Furthermore God never tells anyone to go kill others. Often Kings, Princes, Generals and Politicians say God wants us to kill others. They are wrong. Both sides in almost every war wave a Holy Book saying “God is on our side.”
Truth is God is Love and only Love and that’s all God is.
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My comment is plain and simple: spot on!!
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I remember a post by Franklin Graham in which he stated regarding refugees, “the Bible does not say we have to open our borders…..” I have studied the Bible all my life, but never looking for what it does not say. Rather what it does say as Peter has quoted, to love our neighbors. The story Christ told about the “good Samaritan” clearly teaches us to care for anyone in need, not by first asking where they are from and of what religious beliefs they embrace. It also says God is judge, not us. Thank you Peter for your clear thinking and standing with Christians who can actually discern what is truly right from wrong.
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Thanks for sharing.
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Good sound Lutheran Theology. Kudos for standing up to this stiff Graham.
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Good article…Paul also wrote this: Rom 14:10-23.Perhaps we all, including Peter and Frank, can consider all scripture, not just the ones that support our own viewpoints.
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My thoughts exactly, Peter. Well said, good and faithful servant! I find nothing that makes me want to follow Donald Trump’s example of Christianity.
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Interesting thoughts and ideas, I agree with some but not all. The people refused to bake a cake may or may not have been within their rights but the muslims down the street refuses also?” really why are they not also sued and forced to pay a lifetime of savings to the injured party? If it had been a cake with genitals decorated on it would you want that in your bakery?..Ok Now GOD does care about millions of people without insurance. He cares for the birds of the air and knows when one falls. How can a country support millions of people who have no jobs, and the others who wont look for one? How can we keep taking more and more foreigners to house clothe feed and “insure’ when they bring 4 wives and 15 kids, and receive more welfare benefits than all of our seniors who only worked here for 40 yrs? Paid taxes, saved for retirement,and pay a supplement to medicare and illegals get it a l l , free? Our own vets live in poverty and some homeless, but an illegal gets housing food free health care,and the kids who cannot speak English get an interrupter at our expense, jobs pay no taxes,free tuition and anything else. While those without insurance ‘who cannot afford these exchanges get a penalty and it will be deducted from any tax refunds’ I know this is what happened when my family member lost his job and couldnt afford it..$500.00 off the top of his next refund. I was a nurse for about 35 yrs I know and saw’ with my own eyes how the uninsured are treated in ER, and how illegals also treated,, they know they will get paid right’. Ok and I do believe GOD cares for all the children being married off to old men, sold as sex slaves, and have genitalia mutilation, and the women who are treated less than a far animal. and taught from birth, ‘god dont love females’. My GOD loves me no doubt about it. I dont live in fear of being beaten, raped or beheaded for speaking out about a perverted cult created by man to enslave any enemy and possess any woman and call it religion. Yes HE cares and HE is coming back. I also see so much need for change in gov, health care, and pharmaceuticals it all cost but how can people pay for thousands of dollars of medicine ? There is no easy answer, more gov control? I know people living on$700.00/mo. no way they barely pay utilities and food. lots of people lives in poverty who did nothing but work a low paying job for 30 yrs and got by..How do we explain it to them why illegals refugees and criminals live better then they? I know I rant, I see both and it is maddening
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While the sentiment of this letter is certainly valid the snarky tone is just as un-Christlike as the behaviors he’s rebuking. This type of dialogue does not help.
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The New Testament mentions “False Teachers” arising from within Christianity, especially in the last days. They are called, “Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing”! Billy Graham’s son sure fits the description of a false teacher and when he preaches you can see his snarling canines sticking out from under his sheep’s mask. Jesus is ashamed of him and all the so-called Christians of the same mind-set. Remember, Trump calls himself a Christian as well, which is a joke.
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Omg thank you Pastor Peter! I love what you have written and your references to God’s word in the Bible. I consider myself Spiritual rather than Christian. I believe in God and his word in the Bible but I don’t want to be associated with the views of people like Franklin Graham. I know there are plenty of Christians like me in America.
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This is what demagogues do……they convince the majority that they are the minority and need to fight back.Hitler did it.Franklin is nothing like his Father.Franklin stole his Father’s ministry because he had no other job possibilities
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Bless you brother Peter…..
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Thank you Peter! I had begun to think I was on a disconnect with my biblical teachings and what F. Graham was speaking. I, too, will continue to pray as the Bible instructs and add Mr. Graham to my list!
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Message to “Peter”……. I note your comment ..”Frank. I’m just not seeing it. Not in the Bible, not in the realm of rational common sense.
Here’s the thing, Frank. At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes. His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us.”
I’m afraid you’re missing one of His important points. Jesus will ask if we followed His command to be “Born Again”. He will ask if we became a “new creature” and turned from our sin. When asked by the rich young ruler how to get to heaven His first answer was “Keep the commandments”. Granted He went on to say that it would not be enough but He never retracted His first sentence.
Don’t miss that point Peter.
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Just….thank you. You are what gives the “Light” to a word that is, quickly, turning to bile in the mouths of so many Americans today…”Christianity “. Christ’s message was pretty clear, in my humble opinion. He stated that he came to bring a new law…..that law being LOVE. It seems to me, that most of the “mega churches ” have decided that QUANTITY is the name of the game and have let go of the QUALITY factor. The number of members seems to put the stars in their crowns. When pastors have palaces instead of homes, and churches become “cities” instead of “communities”…..the word “christian” loses some of it’s Christ induced meaning. Christ laid his head wherever there was work to be done, and taught along the byways. THIS is what Christianity was meant to mean….
Thank you, Pastore Peter….just thank you….
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I’m gonna take the middle ground on one of the issues here. The cake thing. A Christian, or any other person of faith, should have the freedom to say ‘no’ to supporting what, in their faith is considered a sin. It was not an issue of hunger… so Mathew 25 doesn’t apply here. BUT! Who better to make a cake for than someone we consider to be living in sin? They called Christ a drunkard for some such reason, didn’t they? Isn’t it kindness that leads folks to repentance? And what are we doing calling folks on their sin if they don’t confess the name of Christ? Not our place! The act of going to a Christian bakery to ‘catch’ the bakers braking the law was certainly discriminatory (if that was their intention) but I would not go so far as to say they are being persecuted. That the bakery went down in flames was more an act of group think and social justice, not persecution. Persecution comes from alone bearing the name of Christ. American Christians have taken to posturing in the name of Christ. That’s what folks are reacting to, NOT because we bear his name. But all of us mature at different times in our faith. I wouldn’t even go so far as to say this couple was posturing. Being wise as serpents doesn’t mean defending the name of Christ where he doesn’t need defending, but turning a kind eye to one perceived to be our enemy and baking them a cake because we’re wise enough not to take things too personally. Let Christ be offended. But let us be the ones to turn our cheek as he commanded. And as a side note, I do not believe American Christians are being persecuted. Anyone in a closed country could tell you that. It is indeed crying wolf.
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Beautiful.
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Great job preacher.
Im a trans woman.
A christain.ive read the whole bible.
Your right on giveing Frank that letter.
His daddy would not approve of his hateful preaching.ive listened to Billy Gram for years.never have i heard hate come from that man.only the love of Jesus.
And thats all that should be preached.
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Peter; your tirade is most condescending and the pretext of your political statement rather disrespectful. Difficult thinking your a pastor let alone a person of faith
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So blessed to read this letter from “Peter”. It was a God send to my aching heart this morning. May God richly and abundantly bless you and your congregation. Keep preaching the true Good News.
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Dear Pete-
I hope all small churches are like yours!
It’s a place I’d like to go and I know I’d see Jesus there.
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My moms parents never read or spoke english When each died they had their most glorious Bible written in english open to john 13 . I never understood how they knew what the bible said . Maybe the beautiful pictures in it gave them a guide . Maybe they never needed words to understand the book they loved ? I can’t speak ill or well of frank . He’s damaged . I can praise the small church large minded Peter .
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Dear Peter,
You obviously are not reading the same Bible I am. Try the only true word of God, the King James Bible. I also get the sense you are not from a fundamental, conservative, Bible beliving, Baptist Church. I also do not sense you have ever had your church padlocked after you were dragged from a Wednesday night prayer meeting. I also doubt you have been sent to jail for 93 days for sending your kids to a Christian school as your wife and kids had to flee the state to prevent arrest and being jailed and your kids taken by the state. If you ever do as I an several families have been, them tell me Chistians are not under attack in America!
Also for your information yes we are to love everyone but that does not mean we need the governments enforcement to make bakeries with Bibical principals bake a cake for the homosexuals. They have the right to refuse service to anyone, including a white heterosexual, couple. You are living in a liberal, fantasy land if you think at the Great White Throne judgement God is not going to care about the sins committed here in this life.
Sincerely,
James, a father who know what it is like to have his government jail him for believing the Bible and Christ’s principals.
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Wonderful letter! I have been wondering why Christians could ever be on the side of The Orange one. Bi briefly considered stopping my monthly donations to Samaritan’s purse and sending an email to FGraham. I decided to keep donating because I feel it is a worthwhile cause and every time I think of writing the letter I get so worked up and angry that I don’t really have the energy to compose anything coherent. You, pastor, have said it clearly and concisely and I thank you very much!
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Peter is quite filled with hubris isn’t he? Am I the only one who hears the spiteful, sarcastic undertones in his words?? “Can I call you Frank?” Give me a break. He has a chip on his shoulder, clearly, and tries to disguise his snarkyness by saying things like, “I would like to think we are brothers”. But golly, in the next breath he says, “but I don’t recognize Jesus…in your rhetoric”. Well PETER, I don’t recognize Him in yours! I thought Jesus called us to consider one another brothers and sisters no matter what? I thought the Bible said that ALL MEN (not just rich, famous men) sin and fall short of God’s glory? It’s easy to point fingers at those in the public eye, but I’m sorry to inform Peter of this, you’re not any better in God’s eyes for being a small town pastor than being one with a large, public pulpit. You are casting stones all over the place with your words. You don’t like President Trump. We get it. But GUESS WHAT. He is a man and a child of God too. Do your rules of love, forgiveness, and acceptance not apply to him? The Bible also tells us to respect authority and the leaders of our lands…you’re really picking and choosing Biblical content that matches YOUR agenda. Finally, the Bible also tells us, (in a letter from the same Paul you boast such familiarity with), that if we believe a brother is sinning, we should take him aside and speak to him in private. NOT try to get ourselves 15 minutes of fame by writing an “open letter” to him, defaming his character, disrespecting and ridiculing him PUBLICLY. For Pete’s sake, Peter, (no pun intended), go look in the mirror and worry about yourself. You did no good by writing this letter.
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You can’t stand for life and death at the same time..🙁. Throwing stones and judging is our biggest sin.
You are judging Franklin you are judging the President what makes you any better? Love means love. No room for stone throwing.
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Are we NOT to Judge a person but to open their eyes to Christ if an opportunity arises. To know God is to know HE is of LOVE and JUDGEMENT. He who doesn’t know my SON doesn’t know Me. In Ephesians 2:8-9, For it is by GRACE you have been SAVED, through FAITH, and this NOT from yourselves, it is a gift from GOD. NOT by WORKS, so no one can boast.
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So Moslem bakeries can refuse to bake Gay wedding cakes but Christians have to. No descrimination there. Move along.
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Thank you for this eloquent message. You have clearly pointed out how different Franklin’s views are from those of Jesus in the Bible. I doubt that Billy Graham shares the views of his son. Last time I read what Billy was saying, it was a very universal, loving statement. Franklin is anything but. We need more people like you who will call out the un-Christian behavior and attitudes of those who call themselves Christian. Keep on preaching the good news, Peter! We need it so badly in the current political scene.
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God doesn’t clean his fish before He catches them! Yes, Trump sinned. He gave his life to Christ about the same time as he was inaugurated. He has been trying to walk in God’s ways ever since. Are you holier than God that you can’t forgive Trumps past?
God chooses our leaders and we are to pray for them. Yes, that is in the bible
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Persecution comes in many forms. I do not appreciate this writer’s sarcastic and insulting tone. I would say that losing your livelihood because of your stand against sin is persecution. While I do believe Pastor Graham to be too involved in politics, the scriptures call us to be the salt of the earth. Salt makes a difference in whatever it comes in contact with. I long for the day when we stop referring to godliness as hatred. That couldn’t be further from the truth.
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Thank you Pastor Peter for your comments- it is an encouragement to me as I try to deal with this man that we now find in the white house; as I try to deal with the comments of Graham and televangelists. It is a hard place in which I find myself right now and I am trusting that our Lord will help me through it as He has promised. I pray that He will help our country get through it as well. I am finding that I do not recognize the Jesus that so many like Graham either speak of , or fail to speak of. I am trusting the Jesus that I read of in the gospels; that was crucified for my(our) sins; that showers us with his wonderful mercy and grace.
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Billy had his hand where angels fear to tread as well. He made a covenant with Reagan – If you work to increase our numbers, we’ll increase yours. Forever after, the conservatives leaned more and more Christian/Right. Now there are hoards of Christians who are convinced Jehovah is Republican. The sheep would elect a baboon if it had an (R) after it’s name. Oh wait… they did vote for a baboon. All Conservative politicians need do is praise God in every speech and they can go out and rob from the poor and give to the rich. What does “conservative” mean anymore? They just voted to dump Meals on Wheels and give an additional $50B to the war machine. They’re selling land preserves to corporate pillaging.
This is religious freedom – You are free to participate in any ritual, custom or belief your CONSCIENCE mandates, as long as it is harmless to all others. You do not have the freedom to impose any belief on another. For me, that means I should be allowed to quietly adhere to my atheistic beliefs and religious zealots can shut their yap and leave me to it. It doesn’t extend to my berating anyone’s deity, no matter if I believe they’re purely mythical. You cannot enforce Bill’s freedom if it pinches Tom’s freedom. If you want religious studies in public school, it has to include a cross-section of religions. Better to leave it out of public school completely and those inclined can find a theological school to augment their studies. A same sex couple is free to buy a cake from whoever will serve them. If a baker refuses, that’s his freedom of choice too. If he wants to lose clients, fine. Couple can go to his competitor.
Religious arrogance certainly isn’t a myth. Christians are just one example of a group that needs to believe their dogma is correct, as is their interpretations. Every variant faith, must be floundering with a false god and no real scriptures to guide them. Such “special sons” need to read the book again, as it has much to say about hubris. In fact, I found the Western Bible promoted humility over winning an argument every time.
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Amen Amen Amen. Franklin you aren’t your father who understood and lived the teachings of scripture. You are a as the Bible describes the Bible describes a hypocrite and Pharisee of the worst kind. Go away and learn the true teachings of Jesus Christ. You are worse than the worse sinners amongst us !! Franklin Graham there will be a special place in hell for you. I’m not saying I’m making it to heaven ? I hope I do but I know you won’t be there for sure !! Bless your heart Frank. You are going to need it.
And may god forgive you.
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Matthew 7:1 says not to judge others lest you also be judged
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Well, Peter I have to say whether I agree with Mr. Graham or not I have to say the seething contempt and high and mighty passive aggressive attitude you wrote this piece, does not cry out Love you neighbor as yourself. Your letter puts Christianity under a bad light. And the fact that you chose to do it on an open forum like this just adds to the fact that even though you state you read your Bible and maybe you do use it to bolster your point of view, but we are told if we have a problem with a fellow Christian to speak to then directly, then take another person with you when you approach them, it in no way states chastise them in public or Infront of the world. The world does enough to put us down and cause dissention among fellow believers, we don’t need to do it to ourselves period I think you should take a second look into your own heart. Because even though you tried to minimize who you were to prove a point you sure sounded like you were coming from a position of superiority. And a place of judgement where we as Christians have no place being.
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Thank you, Peter, for speaking so eloquently for so many of us. When asked to name the greatest commandment, Our Lord specifically called us to love God and love each other, as you cited. Franklin Graham is not his father. Billy Graham concerned himself with the message of salvation to a lost world — not politics — for a very long time. It has only been in his declining years, under Franklin Graham’s influence, that Billy Graham has taken a political stand. Although he moved among men in the highest offices for decades, he never allowed politics to overshadow or corrupt his message. A sad end for a life heretofore devoted to God’s service.
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Agreed, Franklin Graham is an asshole for mixing politics with religion. And… If you only read the “come-on” paragraph from the story, and not the whole letter, you would think that Pastor Pete was all good and holy and above all the crap. But reading the whole letter said to me that Pastor Pete is just as snarky and political as anyone. Injecting a lot of popular liberal anti-Trump talking points into his letter. Being very judgmental while ripping someone up for being judgmental. lol Pastors need to be preaching about Jesus and keep their nose out of politics…. period…. no matter how they try to justify it.
…. I will give him credit for being smooth though…. he is certainly gonna get his piece of the pie for his church now…. how much ya wanna bet that his full name and the name of his church are gonna be “leaked” within the next few…….. followed shortly by “the go fund me” page for the new roof and community missions???? :p Smart cookie, this Pastor Pete, gonna make couple hundred thousand for his church, not because he spanked Franklin Graham…but… because he criticized Trump in the letter. Making money off of hate and fear… well that’s just the American way…. why should Frank be the only one that profits???
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I am 100 percent with Franklin Graham. Christians have always been persecuted but we must preach the Word of God and that is what the Grahams do!
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If this was written by a Pastor,please do not take me to his church;
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Well said. Your letter is amazing and truthful. Thank you Preacher. And God bless you.
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In regards to the cake issue I have to call it unfair because a min Christian business would not have been made to pat a fine or even badgered for refusal.
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AMEN, Brother Peter!
You may not have the money and trappings of a Franklin Graham but you have a voice, the right message and the internet. Use what you have to keep speaking your message–rally your counterparts to do the same. Listen to that voice inside your head and heart that prompted you to write this open letter. In the humble opinion of one small town Christian, it’s the likes of Franklin Graham and politicized Christianity that’s persecuting the least of us and tainting Christianity for all of us. I shuddered when I read some of the comments disparaging your letter. The reasoning–the justification–and the adulation heaped on Graham is, at best, concerning and, at worst, frightening. I would like to remind Graham that he can’t serve two Masters and I’d like to remind all of us to beware false preachers and teachings. Politics shouldn’t have a place of influence in the pulpits of Christianity (or any faith based religion) and politicized preachers shouldn’t use Christianity and its body of believers to influence politics.
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I stand with Frank, not the author.
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This article is filled with anger and a self righteous attitude. No one knows the heart of each individual, except God alone. Unless there has been an invention I missed I.e salvation X-ray machine? I believe in feeding the hungry and helping by the poor. I also believe in helping the orphans, the fatherless, the widows. I attend a mega church, which is committed to giving 50% of all incoming funds OUTside the walls of the church. We have people from many countries natures and nationalities in our membership. And yes, we also have Trump supporters and those who disagree. African Americans, Muslims, Asians, etc. so you think when we stand before God at James segment time He will be concerned with a candidate we supported, but not whether we stood against homosexuality? Medical Care is provided for the poor, in the form of Medicaid. Yes, I have family who have their only medical care by this means. And yes, I work and have insurance thankfully, all while paying for Medicaid and social security for others. The government deductions from my paycheck are helped by the poor, in addition to tithing and donating. I have been a member of small church also in the past. They are not all the same. Some are more concerned with “programs” inside the church and I reach that they have no grasp of what is happening outside their walls. If you don’t want your small church judged by other small churches, maybe not judging mega churches or spiritual figures would be a good starting point.
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Junior should get out of the social commentary business and just concentrate on turning his parent’s corpses into a real money-making tourist trap in a barn — against his mother’s wishes.
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Hoping this will get to those who are being blindly led down the sanctimonious path and perhaps don’t read anyway, which is sad😣🐝🐝
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Your letter is the most succinct and compelling reason for leaving the church (any church) immediately. “Come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her sins” could not be more apropos than it is now. Franklin Graham and his ilk are destroying pure Christianity! The GOSPEL means good news –not condemnation of others. Don’t like same sax marriage? Here’s a tip: Don’t get married to someone of the same sex! NEXT? Can’ you just imagine Jesus with the woman caught in adultery saying ” I’m so sorry but I don’t approve of adultery, so I must condemn thee”! Yea, there will be hell to pay at the Great White Judgement Throne of God but those who will be paying may not be who you think they will be. Franklin Graham comes to mind. No wonder the Christian churches are losing millions of members every year. They wouldn’t recognize the gospel of Jesus the Christ if someone slapped them across the face with it.
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Sorry you feel this way. Size does not matter. The call is to “Go, therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all these things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Hope you can get past your anger and prejudice you have against Rev. Franklin Graham. Extend to hm some of the grace you are willing to extend to those you spoke up for. We should not be selective on whom we show mercy. To support gay marriage does go against what the Bible teaches.
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I feel this letter came across as sarcastic and bitter. Franklin Graham and Samaritans Purse have done so much good for the poor and suffering of all countries. He wants people to pray for each other. Supporting our President does not mean he feels everything he says and does are right….we have no idea what is in Franklin’s heart or for that matter what he might say to the President about his behaviors. I understand this pastors thoughts but to openly critisize him is not at all Christian based.
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Perfectly said! Amen!!!
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Amazing the people defending Graham in these comments. I wonder how you justify his wealth and greed if you’ve read the teachings of Christ. THE TWO ARE NOT COMPATIBLE. The New and Old Testament both teach you this. And if you think Christianity is under attack in this country, you just like being the victim. The only reason it might be under attack is because it’s crossing the border between separation of church and state. So called Christians are trying to take away the rights of other religions and the mom religious away in this country and people are pushing back.
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I salute your courage and forthright note to call out religious leaders whose “North Star ” has become a source of concern and dividing the Christian community. The notion that a person with so many abhorrent behaviour is elevated to such a high pedestal beggars belief.
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It seems to me an open letter is more for yourself and an audience than for the recipient you, supposedly, intended. If you really wanted to speak to him, Christian to Christian, pastor to pastor, you should have done just that. Do not the scriptures also give us that direction when we have a problem with another follower? I’m sorry but I couldn’t stomach reading the more than a couple paragraphs. I don’t see any way that God was glorified in this, nor any way that more people will be drawn into the kingdom because of it. Perhaps pastor, you should have thought of that first.
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Christianity has been distorted over time to give leverage to those in power, and that’s what’s happening now. There is a large percentage of the population that lacks the ability to think critically, and/or just has a high need for hierarchy, and certain people take cynical advantage of that by dovetailing their own interest with cherry-picked distortions of biblical verses. Christ repeatedly decried groups like the Pharisees who went around with the biblical rule book chastising people over petty perceived infractions of their interpretations of the bible. That is why there is so much discussion of such manufactured issues as wedding cakes for gay couples, prayer in schools, creation “science” being included in school curriculum. These issues take away from our collective humanitarian duty to care for the sick and the poor and the otherwise marginalized. This whole business of God rewarding “good” Christians with material wealth is a tragically false notion promoted by corporate interests to create a codependence and leverage a power differential.
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Wow, it’s a good thing you let “Frank” have it so he knows the right way to be a Christian. I can tell how much you would really like to be brothers with him, too. But, I just don’t think he’s up to your standards and high level of spirituality. I don’t think any of us deplorables could even breathe your air, you Christ Servant, you. Your love is overwhelming.
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If there had been more religious people in my life like the author of this article, I might never have left the church thirty years ago. Thank you so much for sharing, Pastor. It warms my heart to know there are people like you in the world.
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I disagree also, I was done with Mr. FRANK when he went around the USA promoting Mr Trump for President. I new then that he was not his father son Billy Graham. I believe that if Billy Graham was able he would be sitting his son, Frank down, He brought crazy to his father’s name. The church was started in the house and it’s going that to house, the small church is what God is going to use to win the world. The bigger churches is just to buzz to hear what God is saiding to the house of prayer. Most of these Pastor with these big churches, don’t even know, their sheep.
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The problem here is, you deny the individual his Liberty by forcing them to bake cakes, marry Sodomites and whatever else sinners want to force you to do. God is the author of Liberty. And you want the government to deny us that Liberty.
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As an atheist, I am pleased and astonished to read this letter, and hope that more Christians like yourself start to stand up and take people like Frank Graham to task. Stay strong!
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Peter not all small church people see it the way you do either and you just have a onesided opinion like all of us do but i think the Bible also tells us to witness to people that are not walking in Gods word and let them know. I would like to hear some of your sermons. Thank you and God loves you too
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Peter, I see your point. That being said, I don’t think writing in such a disrespectful and condescending tone elevates that point. It makes you seem, well, “small”.
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I love what what the character of Jesus said in “The Shack” that today’s Christianity has nothing to do with him.”Love one another” shouldn’t be so hard to understand, but maybe harder to do. And whatever happened to “judge not that you be judged”? We wonder why people turn away from this hippocrasy.
You can’t have love in your heart and hate at the same time. Here’s a spoiler alert God doesn’t love only Christians…..he loves us all unconditionally, and for those who seem to feel self appointed interpreters of God, I believe God has a special surprise for.
Uncondional love and forgiveness!
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hey Pete…you don’t mind if I call you Pete do you? Pete your letter, dripping with such self righteous sarcasm, leaves me to question if you really are a pastor. Pete you are right, the Bible says everything you said it does…but it also says Pete, that if we ask forgiveness and repent, that our sins are as far as is the East from the west Pete. And whether you like it or not Pete, Jesus has forgiven President Trump for his indiscretions as well. Pete, Jesus said that in the end times people would seek and believe lies to tickle their ears. And at the judgement many people, and yes Pete, many pastors as well will say ‘but Lord, did we not prophecy in your name?’ And as I recall Daniel didn’t follow ‘the law of the land’ when he continued to kneel and pray to the God of the Bible. But Jesus walked with him in the lions den and protected him? Hmmmm Pete, wonder why if it was ‘the law of the land’ why would Jesus protect him if he didn’t follow it? Because it went against God’s law. Franklin Graham isn’t perfect, and neither is President Trump, but God uses imperfect people. Thanks Pete, but I think I’ll put my trust in God and who He chose to lead this country, and I respect Franklin Graham, a man who gave of his time and energy to cross the country in support of Christian values.
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Personally, I think you’re all nuts. But if I was picking sides, I’d play on Peter’s team. From what I’ve read about Christ, we could be teammates. So let’s look at how the sides are shaping up so far: We’ve got me and Peter and Christ, and they’ve got Frank and Donald and #’s 7 & 11.
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The devil will try to divide and conquer us in any way he can. What we should do with all our hearts is pray for understanding, and let God’s spirit guide us. This will lead us into knowing what’s right and doing what’s right. Let’s not quarrel and bicker with one another, but love each other, in Jesus name I pray amen.
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Nice letter, Peter. The comments here illustrate why the vast majority of those who find themselves in Hell are so surprised.
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Amen to that !!
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Beautifully said Pastor Peter!
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Moved to tears…beautifully expressed and on point!
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Isn’t this letter two faced ? How can he say all these things about Mr Graham but justify the sin of others ? He condemns Mr Graham for supporting the president but says it is ok to do all these other things for sinners. In fact he is guilty of the very thing he is complaining about – JUDGEMENT. Because the president did things in his past doesn’t mean we should not give him a chance now. After all that’s why Christ died, to forgive those past sins. Mr Graham is traveling around the world to help the injured, the sick and the hungry. He’s not traveling on this BIG plane to enjoy paradise locations. Read up on Samaritans Purse. I don’t know what we would have done without them when the flood hit Columbia in 2015.
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I couldn’t say it better myself pastor as a married gay man my father was a minister I know the church I was bullied in church and one man that believe me the worst turned out to be gay and died of AIDS what can I say about that it’s too bad that Trump is doing what he is doing he’s miserable human being all I can say Sir is I agree with everything you said Thank you with love in Christ
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Very snarky, nasty letter from a supposed man of God. (“Open Letter” from Peter) Not a very good testament to his faith.
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Thank you Pastor Peter for your thoughtful and pointed analysis of Franklin Graham’s points of hate. I have been searching for a truly Christian perspective of our current political mess in America.
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I think Christians and non-Christians can appreciate these sentiments. I’ve often wondered this: If you won’t bake a cake for a gay couple but you will for anyone else, how do you know you’re not baking a cake for a murderer, a pedophile, a liar, a cheater, an abuser? If you’re saying you won’t bake a cake for someone you deem a sinner, shouldn’t you be getting all customers to fill out a questionnaire regarding their life and sins? Pretty soon you wouldn’t be baking any cakes at all.
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While your letter to Mr. Graham has many good points, I would like you to show me in the constitution of the United States where it says health care is a “right”. Seems to me you are BOTH talking “out the side of your mouth” as old timers used to say. When Jesus Christ came to earth it was with the intention of establishing HIS church. Not the 1st Baptist church, or the Catholic Church, Presbyterian, Episcopal church, Mormon church, church of Christ, or any other church you can think of. EVERY church and every established RELIGION in today’s society has it’s own government structure with laws, bylaws, and rules. What Jesus wanted and said in the Bible was that each and every one of us that heard his good news and believed should go out and and spread his word to all the ends of the earth. Each ONE of us INDIVIDUALLY and COLLECTIVELY would be HIS CHURCH! The church that Jesus established on earth. If Jesus’ church on earth had been established the way he intended, then the government would not be sticking their noses in health care where it certainly doesn’t belong. We would be taking care of one another as Jesus intended. The fault lies with ALL preachers who want to get into politics instead of just spreading the gospels of Our Lord.
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Dear Pastor Peter, you are very bold to write such a letter. I would be very careful demeaning and belittling such a servant of God as Franklin Graham. In terms of Matthew 25, I would be hard pressed to find a person on the planet who has done more for the least of these. His organization, Samaritan’s Purse, provides incredible relief efforts to the poorest of the poor — and providing these people not just with temporary provision, but with living water, the Gospel. Many children in Africa and around the world have come to Christ and been given true hope through the efforts of Operation Christmas Child. Actually, Franklin Graham is an amazing Christ follower who, per Matthew 25 again, has used his talents to bring a tremendous increase for his Master. It saddens me to read a letter of such hatred and disrespect against an honorable brother in Christ.
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paster peter seems like the type of pastor more churches need to teach the meaning of love and tolerance. They want us to tolerate their hate and lies in the name of Christ but are not willing to allow us to live with our beliefs. Women’s rights, men’s rights, LGBTQ, religious rights that do not included right wing ding bat Christian, and I use the term loosely, values.
‘s
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Spot on. They can take whatever political stance they want – but calling it Christian is ridiculous. I chose the Jesus that taught us to feed the poor, visit the infirm, welcome the stranger, and love our enemies. The same Jesus that overturned the money-changers’ tables. Preach on, brother!
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Somehow, I think we have forgotten flippancy and sarcasm or not traits of a servant of Christ.
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Personally, I think I would be more receptive to this letter from a small town pastor but the cynicism and sarcasm toward Franklin Graham is unacceptable. It’s easy to be a Pharisee. It’s my sincere desire to never be one. I will desperately need God’s help. Also, it’s my belief that the rural, small town churches aren’t dealing with the same pressure that many are. In closing, may God help us to an authentic Christian life where we spread everywhere the aroma of Christ.
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How can any Jesus loving Christian align himself with a man so full of hatred?
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“God doesn’t give a flying fruitcake if we deprive twenty-million people, most of them poor, of access to health care. Nor is God particularly concerned about how men treat women in the workplace, how people of color are treated in the real estate market, how the hungry and homeless are cared for (or not), but God flips out if we bake a cake for a same sex couple to celebrate their wedding? I have to be honest with you, Frank. I’m just not seeing it. Not in the Bible, not in the realm of rational common sense.” Peter, YOUR OPINION HERE is a great example of THE DIFFERENCE I BELIEVE we have as Christians. Frankly, I believe God cares about every single thought we have, every single action we incur, every split second of our lives, down to the fruitcake…that’s why I don’t believe the government should be “legislating sins” in the way the government has in the past, particularly the past 2 years!!! We are all sinners who, by the grace of God are asking for repentance and being forgiven on a personal basis…OR WHAT??? The “or what” has become “our government deciding what sins are legal and what sins are not”. That’s what ISLAM is … a combination of religion and law.
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No wonder you are a 30-40 person church. So much hate in your letter. You are standing up for sin and evil. Regarding the cake baking I would NOT have baked either. Read your Bible and do some praying because Same Sex marriage is a BIG sin! Our President was anointed by God! Rev. Franklin Graham is a true man of God! Stop leading your church people to HELL and start reading your Bible and ask God’s forgiveness and start talking to Jesus.
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What happened to Jesus saying we were previously commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves, but now he brought a new covenant under which we are to love our enemies as ourselves?
Frank’s father can pretend he never said anything hateful about Jews, nor did he laugh at jokes about Jew. But it’s all in the Nixon tapes. Pretty irrefutable.
The Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. So now Frank is busy letting the world know how much he hates Muslims, the same Muslims who accept Jesus as a prophet.
Both Billy and Frank know full well that both the Old Testament and the New Testament command that we not judge lest we be judged. I guess they feel that that does not apply to themselves as they cheerfully disobey it. Granted, it such demogogory makes for bigger crowds and bigger personal income. Just ask Trump.
If Jesus could forgive an adultress who was caught in the act, the least we can do is forgive (actually accept, not forgive) people who were born gay. Seriously, what sane person “comes out” knowing they are likely to be ostracized by their family, church, and friends? To believe that must take some seriously deluded faith!
I guess they feel that Jesus was speaking tongue-in-cheek when, in Mark 10 and Mathew 19 (I believe), he told the young man who wanted to see Paradise that he needed to dispose of his property and donate it to the poor. I can just see Billy or Franklin doing THAT.
Btw, that was an extremely excellent letter you wrote Frank!
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True Christianity fosters love not hate. As a “practicing” Christian, I’ve learned to ask the question, “What would Jesus do?”
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When I first started reading Franklin Graham’s post, I was shocked that he would speak of a heathen Trump so highly and show his support for Trump. That’s when I quit reading his post, but still I couldn’t help but wonder how he could be Billy Graham’s son with his views so skewed. Pastor Peter wrote exactly what I feel and thought of when I was reading Graham’s post. Thank you Pastor Peter. God bless you and your congregation.
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“Where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.” James 3:16
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This is exactly why we left organized religion!! Fabulous letter says it all!!!!
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Excellent!
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Being a ‘small’ or ‘large’ church pastor requires humility. 1 Peter 5:5. IMHO this pastor, Peter, as he signed his letter to ‘Frank’, fails the humility test with his repeated put-downs of ‘Frank’. This is not humility . . . far from it.
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A very important letter. Thank you Pastor Peter.
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Damn sir!!! As a practicing agnostic, I gotta say, your vision Christianity is beautiful. I very much wish I could join you in your faith but alas, I cannot. That being said, I nonetheless found your articulation of biblical principals moving, beautiful, and worthy utterance for one who believes he has a right to lead anyone, anywhere. I have read the Bible in full seven times. I found Great things that I still use in my day to day life to this very day. I tell you this not in hours of salvation but so you’ll know that many, Many, MANY of us living a a secular or even atheistic life recognize that (or at lest HOPE that) people of faith are not ALL thugs in priests’ clothing, who would like to leave all those they deem unworthy (like say I don’t know, ME maybe) in salted, unmarked graves. Lest you think this hyperbole, remember Hitler and most of the Reich Chancellory called themselves “Christians” too. We may not agree on how and where (or even if) I’ll spend eternity once I shed this mortal coil, but I’d like to think that if we met serving soup at a homeless shelter we might be friends, or, barring that, at the very lest we could be civil and mutually respectful based on nothing more than our common humanity.
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These persecuted Christians need to understand that they should have the most empathy towards ISIS. They both swerve away from their mainstream religion and try to force others to see things their way.
The separation must remain. When the only reason you so vehemently protest in support of your position is, “God told me my way is right”, you’re more dangerous than ISIS. YOU BELIEVE ONLY YOUR WAY CAN LEAD TO RIGHTEOUSNESS AND THE WAY OF THE LIGHT.
Get your ignorant, slave-producing religion out of my sight, ESPECIALLY in politics and governance. To take children out of public schools and make me pay for your religious indoctrination through school vouchers is the fastest way to kill America.
I have NOTHING against religion and spirituality. It keeps slavery-addicted people happy and SILENT. Religion is sacred and as such should be tended to in sacred ceremony, not Trumpism. Religion is belief that you will live on through eternity in your same conscious self. Weak people need the idea of a conscious eternity to get through the daily grind.
What’s the name of that kid’s game where someone whispers into the ear of the kid next to them, and that goes around the circle where the truth never makes it completely around in a ten minute game? Well, think about “Christianty” being selected as the religion most acceptable for the era 300 years after the fact. You’re starting out on shaky ground. Now, lets add Hell into the story. It turns out, we DID have Hell on earth. Hell was the name of the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where they’d dispose the bodies of those who “did poorly” in life and didn’t have enough money to be buried in a cemetery. (there was no life insurance back then). There, visitors could watch as those poir, bad people just soldered in the heat, their flesh “rendered” by “evil spirits”, (the benefits of bacteria were not yet discovered, so SOMETHING had to be going on..) I guess one of the supervisors of the garbage pit had a lot of red blood on them, giving Satan a blood red outfit.
Now think about that eternity thing.
It is actually true that we live on forever. It’s just faith that we’ll be conscious when it happens. Dust to dust….. we are all made out of Carl Sagen’s star dust. Every atom that comprises the biosphere that is you came from star dust and will return to star dust, eventually every atom that ever touched your body will be released back into the heavens….I mean space….to again be part of a new earth, or a new Mars, or a dog, or an ant. Part of what comprises you may in fact have been in humanoid shape billions of years ago.
And THAT’S the reason for understanding religion. Those atoms, quarks, muons and Charms that make up our framework are all borrowed atoms from something or someone that existed billions of years ago. THAT IS WHAT makes up conscious humanity’s religion. We ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS of the universe. Piece by piece, assembled by your parents, continued through digestion and DNA.
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No wonder you are a church of 30-40 people. Your letter is filled with hate and evil.
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You need to be reading the whole Bible and praying to God.
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Franklin is a greedy hypocrite. The End. Taking money from poor, elderly and living on n mansions, owning private jets. Start taxing these hypocrites! And stop donating to them. Bravo Peter. Your letter says it all!
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Stop leading your people to HELL. Our President was anointed by God. Rev. Franklin Graham is a true man of God.
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Peter, if this is just preacher to preacher, keep it between the two of you. Frank, you made me cringe. Peter, if for any reason I need to buy my cake somewhere else, big deal! Nobody should be required to buy anything from anybody! Finally, it is stupid to be loyal to any politician or political party!
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This is a timely message with scripture based revelation. I’m so proud of you Peter. I think this was profoundingly executed with compassion. God bless you such an eye and hmear opener I hope Mr Graham examines his heart and throw himself before the Lord asking for great revelation. Well done.
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Thank you, sir, for your excellent response to Franklin Graham’s disgusting whining.
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Your letter may have been more convincing had it not been for the sarcasm and belittling of Franklin Graham…
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Pastor, the church is one and denominations are man made. You listen but you do not hear.
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I agree with your main points. Disappointed in the sarcasm.
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This “Peter” is a phony. “If u don’t like the rules, don’t join the game”!?? The rules were CHANGED by the anti-God Democrats & Obama! They were changed to be anti-Christian. If Peter was a Christian, he would know when Christ, the Bible, and his followers are being attacked. Ever hear of Sodom & Gamorah??
“Accusations of criminal activity w no evidence”… SOUNDS FAMILIAR!!! You mindless, Christian attacking, phony pastor (Phony Russian scandal). And, btw, plenty of evidence Hillary “didn’t follow the rules”, and should be in jail.
Then you attack Trump and Graham for calling “names”. Lol.. I’m sure you’re perfect. Grow up.
I have a Biblical name to call you – a “fool”. Actually, maybe even evil, as ur twisting the Bible as Satan did to Jesus in the wilderness to attack a God fearing Christian and supporting anti-Christ Democrats. Can’t serve 2 masters. Which means u can’t be a Christian, and then support those (Democrats) who attack Christ and Christian values.
If you reveled who you are, we can pray for you, and pray YOU stop slandering, and calling Christians who stand up for Christian and Constitutional values as “hateful”.
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I am not a Christian nor a member of any religious organization. I do not believe God created man in “his” image nor is God anthropomorphic. I do believe in behaving ethically not because I’m being judged by a supreme being bur because it is the only way I can live in peace with myself and with the human community. I do recognize there is much wisdom in almost all religions but I think for myself and refuse to accept dogma. I can recognize bigotry when I see it. Frank Graham’s intolerance smacks of bigotry regardless of it’s religious justification.
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This open letter is very disappointing. It is disrespectful and rude. If a brother has something against his brother he should go to him. Not post something on social media to whip up the masses into a mob mentality of continued rudeness and disrespect . You, as a shepherd and leader, should display a more honorable example of grace and truth if you see a brother in error. Once again, the world gets to see Christians stoning their own.
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Pastor Peter, I wanted to say thanks for your letter. I am also a pastor at a small country church. This season (since the primaries?) has been very difficult for me, and for a lot of Christians, I think, because the (white) Christianity that went to the ballot boxes, and the Christianity proclaimed by people like Franklin Graham looks so little like the Jesus I read about in the Bible. It has been hard to believe that this is God’s Church and that we are doing something meaningful in the world. Why on earth did Jesus entrust us with his gospel!? It seems like the height of foolishness. Letters like yours are encouraging. Many of the comments are less so. 🙂
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Pastor Peter
Where is your church sir? I need a dose of what you preach, badly!
With love and deepest respect
Michael
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Amen, and Amen!!!!
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I agree with many of the points made here . . . but I was grieved and saddened by the mocking and insulting tone of the letter. You say, “I would like to believe that we are on the same side. I would like to believe that, beneath our differences, we worship the same God and follow the same Savior. But quite honestly, I don’t recognize the Jesus I learned from my parents, my Sunday School teachers, my pastors or my years of study and reflection on the Bible in your angry, fearful rhetoric.” Well, I would say the same thing about your arrogant, mocking and insulting sarcasm. I dare say there is a log in your eye that only detracts from the very valid points to be made here.
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A dear friend posted this open letter to Facebook; when he did, I reposted it to my own timeline with my own thoughts:
In case it’s not visible, Barry’s original comment to this was, “Oh my! This letter should be read by everyone who calls herself or himself a Christian!”
It should also be read by non-believers (atheists *and* agnostics) and those of any faith who think all evangelical Christians are inherently bad or evil.
People who disagree with Mr. (I don’t believe the man deserves the “Rev.”) Franklin do have allies – thoughtful ones – in the communities of faithful. Though I do wish more would speak out like this reverend.
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Very powerful!
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Please look around you and see how many people are suffering. Hate permeates the energy rather than the free love and tolerance. I grew up with. Our environment and all the animals of our planet needs love and nurturing to at least attempt to give back all they give to us rather than shoot, pollute and kill. Please let’s Lucy our hearts today and let someone (a cat, dog, flower, mother, child or friend know you care about them. Take at least one living action today and hopefully it will be passed forward.
Renee
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I commend how articulate you were in a thoughtful caring speech which all religions could learn and emulAte to respective congregations. I retired a few years ago as the Education Director and teacher at our Synagogue. I loved working with children from pre-school through college. Our Rabbis gave many sermons echoing your words. Many of our congregants are active participants at the synagogue and community. My youngest daughter was so impressed by your words she sent it on for others to read. I applaud you and know your congregation no matter the size looks up to you!! Thank you
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This was one of the most “spot on” articles I’ve read recently!!!! Good for you! Americans everywhere are being bullied, lied to, and humiliated by what has transpired with the present administration and it’s followers.
Thank you for your words. I’m sharing!
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That people can immerse themselves in the New Testament and then become part of a voting block primarily concerned with “right to life”, “sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman”, “small government” etc. is astonishing. Members of the Christian Right are political pawns, who after reading the Bible prove themselves incapable of “seeing the forest for the trees” and become dupes in a dangerous political game that has caused grave damage to our Republic. The Evangelical support for Trump in this election proved once and for all that Christian Conservatism is the “Emperor without clothes”.
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Thank you, sir, for putting my thoughts into words so beautifully.
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Pastor Peter,
I’m about as atheist as it gets, but I have nothing but love and respect for you for writing this letter. Everything you said was right.
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I posted Rev Olsen’s wonderful letter to Progressive Methodists group Facebook page. I accepted Christ at a Billy Graham crusade in 1980. Billy Graham was a real voice of God, serving with many Presidents of many faiths, welcoming all. He preached the love of Jesus, not separation and hatred that marks Franklin’s alignment with the so called evangelical right, so blinded by politics. Franklin found a lucrative and powerful home there and he has perverted Christ’s message: inclusion and love of all neighbors, and that includes LGBT and refugees. Christ preached healing and caring for the poor; the fundamental religious right has abandoned all of these teachings. Franklin is not the voice of his father, nor the voice of our Father.
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Amen.
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Peter I am overwhelmed by your perfect description of a true Christian and/or a very good human being. Thanks
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Was this written in 1930’s Germany?
Let’s roll over and play nice?
You do remember that WWJD includes whips and overturning tables, right?
While I don’t agree with Frank either, I don’t believe that we are to do nothing either…
Further, where we are different parts of the body of Christ, we have different needs. Stomach acid is great in the stomach, but very destructive in your ear, or eye. You, Pete, seem to need social justice, Frank, political justice. BOTH ARE NEEDED!
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This pastor Peter said, “His [Jesus’] sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed ‘least’ among us.” I wish that were true. It would turn Christianity into a helpful, caring religion. Unfortunately, according to the Protestant theology, being nice to others doesn’t get you into heaven. All the loving and caring for others must take a back seat to something else. Salvation, you see, is a matter of grace – not works – so one must accept the “gift of Grace.” And how does one do this? By accepting Jesus as your Saviour and Lord which requires that one declare loyalty (faith = fidelis = fidelity = loyalty) to an idea about divinity that is presented through the doctrines and dogma of the Church, particularly the conservative church. Hence, the phenomenon of Franklin Graham and his mandate to say all the hostile, judgemental things he says. He can run roughshod over the poor and downtrodden and marginalized because he has a more important divine mission that is concerned with people’s eternal salvation – their loyalty to his divine master. Make no mistake – faith (or loyalty) is everything in conservative Christianity and when “the sheep are separated from the goats” one day, where do you think the goats are going? Will they roast in hell for having behaved badly? No. They will suffer eternal torment for not being loyal to the monotheist deity of the bronze age, Middle Eastern desert people, promoted by the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims. Flim flam and horsefeathers! May we save ourselves from all the Franklin Grahams. May we save ourselves from conservative Christianity. May we save ourselves from all conventional religion.
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Now, shall I remove the Log from your eye, since you refused to do that yourself; before sitting in judgement of others who have more courage than you, to stand up and battle the evil forces in our nation. Just because you can’t see it, doesn’t mean its imaginary; that means you are ignorant of the reality of our situation.
Kind Sir, you speak of the Coptic Christians as if they AREN’T our brethren; as you do nothing to help them in their persecution. Nowhere in your list of duties, do you include: help those who are being persecuted for believing in Jesus- as is mandated in the Bible. What are you doing to HELP all of those who are being persecuted for their belief in Jesus Christ? Did you offer any sort of assistance to that Christian couple who LOST EVERYTHING, because they chose to follow Christian law, God’s laws? Or are you saying that Secular Laws are more important than Biblical laws? As long as we follow secular law, while ignoring Biblical Law… we’re still following God’s plan for us?
Every time someone looses Constitutional Rights, WE ALL loose them, or are you so comfortable in your snug little church, that you believe you are immune to what happens outside your little community?
I take it that the Freedom From Religion movement hasn’t come to your door, yet, since that is their preferred attack. The FFR specifically targets small communities, because they don’t have the money to fight back. The FFR ACTIVELY seeks out and attacks with lawsuits and legal injunctions- to have all religious icons, references, and monuments removed from Public Eye, even if they are on private property. The Public has the right to be protected from religion; that is their stance, and are you going to follow their interpretation of the laws, and stop preaching the Gospel? I guess you don’t see that as persecution, since you haven’t been attacked, yet.
I guess you weren’t aware of the Mayor of Houston trying to ram rod a city code that forbade ministers from preaching against homosexual behaviors? That is Unconstitutional, but Texas Christians had to stand up, put their money where their mouth is to FIGHT for their rights to religion.
I guess you aren’t aware of efforts to remove all Christian iconography from veterans cemeteries?
I guess you aren’t aware of schools forcing students to study Islam, and even tricking kids into speaking oaths of allegiance to Islam, veiled as poetry from other nations. While at the same time, various Christian Student Clubs and Associations are being FORCED OFF CAMPUSES- both high school and colleges- because others don’t believe they have the right to speak their religion in a public place, even if that public place is a room with doors on a public campus. They don’t have the right to their Free Speech, because they words are uttered in a prayer. You don’t see that as persecution, and BREAKING LAWS?
If you think there isn’t an active fight to destroy Christianity in this nation, then you are grossly ignorant of reality.
You kept repeating: We must follow laws. By the original document that established our laws: NO LAW can be written that undermines or contradicts the Constitution. We have the right to our religious beliefs, worship, and practices. AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK IT. Period. NO ONE can take that away from us, unless we surrender it willingly. There are no laws that can deny us that, Period. If other stronger Christians decide to follow the Bible’s directives, and NOT SUPPORT AND CONDONE SINFUL BEHAVIOR, the Constitution defends their right to do so.
The judges, and state governments are UNCONSTITUTIONAL in forcing people to act against their religious principles. But we must FIGHT those rulings, and force others to prove those actions are Unconstitutional… and even with that fight, too many judges are ignoring their Constitutional role and are ruling against Christians. If you are unaware of that, or don’t know these things are happening: you are grossly ignorant of the reality in our nation.
Before you start making JUDGEMENT calls, trying being better informed, first.
As to Trump, I’ll come right out and say it: I believe Satan speaks in that man’s ear every day. I don’t trust him any farther than I can spit. On that count, I agree with your opinions on the Graham’s endorsement of this man. Yet, where were all these Christians who could see this man’s evil, and openly refused to support the one candidate who DOES have a life long foundation in Christianity, and has fought for Christian’s Constitutional rights, his entire life? Oh, I know what happened to them, they capitulated in fear, after Trump’s con game steam rolled our electoral process.
We should all be cowering in fear, that our nation has sunk to the level- that in our last election the two front running candidates WERE KNOWN CRIMINALS.
But to cower in fear, is to ignore our Faith- that God is in charge. To cower in fear, is to belief a handful of individuals are stronger than our entire nation of people, and they are stronger than the Constitution.
I am not afraid, but I am weary in fighting for Christians rights, when people like you, undermine those efforts out of ignorance, sloth, and the misguided belief God doesn’t want us to fight to remain true to his Word; with the misguided belief we can go with the secular flow of sin, and God will still see us as his Children.
If we aren’t supposed to follow Gods’ laws to the letter, then why preach at all? What does it matter to bring people to the Word of God, if we don’t have to follow that word?
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The writer Peter needs to be discredited as others have written in the original posts on this Trinity’s Portico website since he has inaccuracies in his story and obviously has a very biased attitude. Personally I believe Franklin Graham, BGEA and Samaritan’s Purse, Decision America Tour, My Hope ministries do a lot more good than bad. Kind of like all of us humans. I am just saying that Franklin is just like the rest of us and not perfect. But he does do a lot more good than bad. Besides what is written in this story about Franklin Graham I would say he has fought wonderfully for the rights of Christians around the globe, fought for children and their health and recently fought against trafficking and set up a hospital in Iraq. And has taken up the torch from his father to fight for this country and the most important thing for everyone and that is to , with God’s help, lead many to salvation. Go to these website’s to gain more of an appreciation: https://billygraham.org (Look under What we Do.) ,https://www.samaritanspurse.org,https://myhopewithbillygraham.org and http://peacewithgod.jesus.net
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The best way to preserve your freedom to worship as you wish is to stand strongly to protect the rights of others to worship as they wish or not to worship at all. We have a secular government for a reason; to preserve the right to practice our religion providing it does no harm to others. When attempts are made to codify a particular religious mythology into secular law it oversteps the boundaries established by our Constitution. The pendulum can and does swing both ways. Christianity in particular is not under attack in this country. Attempts to codify the mythology of certain christian sects is being resisted; rightly so. It is ironic that almost all the pronouncements about a religion being under attack also include a request to send money. That should tell you something. The letter at the heart of this discussion is spot on!
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“Peter”…. You may actually be a fake persona, but I will say, you know nothing. Yes, it is a beginning of Christian persecution to take somebody’s business and fine them, shut them down or jail them because they are not able to bake you a cake for your gay wedding Peter. They have the right to choose to do that because their conscience is not at peace with the circumstance. Why am I even commenting? We know you are not really a pastor of a small church but just some liberal antagonist trying to stir up the pot
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Like you have an exclusive on what will happen on judgement day. Should we just ignore all the other of Jesus’ teaching and follow your view of Matthew 25?
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Listen all ye who love and revere GOD ALMIGHTY…THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB (ISREAL). LET me tell you what GOD HAS DONE ON MAN’S BEHALF…on my behalf: had I loved sin HE WOULD NOT HAVE HEARD my cryout to HIM. AS I have submitted unto HIS ALMIGHTY SOVEREIGN NATURE, HE HAS BEEN FAITHFUL AND I feed on HIS FAITHFULNESS. WHILE I WAS YET A SINNER, HE DIED FOR me that I MAY LIVE FORGIVEN AS THOUGH I NEVER sinned ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN WITH JOY AND LIFE ABUNDANCE GOVERNED WITH HIS GOVERNMENT OF SUPERNATURAL PROTECTION, PROVISION AND PEACE THAT no man can or will ever provide me or anyone. LET US ALL COME INTO UNITY IN ONE ACCORD THROUGH CHRIST JESUS ALLOWING THE OVERFLOW OF LOVE THROUGH HIM AFFECT THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND US THUS MAKING THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE “ONE LIFE AT A TIME.” WHILE OFFERING ONE ANOTHER THE VERY SAME UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND MERCY AS WELL AS UNMERITED FAVOR AND GRACE AS OUR CREATOR…OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN…OUR RESURRECTED SAVIOR…OFFER EACH OF US WHILE WE ARE ALL SINNERS IN NEED OF A SAVIOR. ANYONE WHO SAYS, ” WE MUST not look to man’s government but to GOD’S GOVERNMENT.” AND WHO HOLDS UP THE HOLY BIBLE AND STATES, ” THIS IS THE BOOK THAT WILL HEAL OUR LAND.”…THAT MAN OF GOD HAS BEEN FORGIVEN AND PROFESSES HIS RENEWED MIND TOWARD GOD AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. JESUS LOVES YOU TREMENDOUSLY AND DESIRES THAT NONE SHALL PERISH BUT THAT ALL COME UNTO THE SAVING GRACE OF GOD ALMIGHTY BEFORE THE WORLD WAS EVEN CREATED KNOWING WE WOULD ALL FALL SHORT AND NEED A SAVIOR TO ENTER HIS PRESENCE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN. HELP US LEAD US EMPOWER US BY YOUR BLOOD AND YOUR SPIRIT LORD JESUS. AMEN. MITZI L. RIGGS MAY 17, 2017
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This Truth should set Franklin Graham free; That is if he accepts the Truth.
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I have a feeling that your church will be growing.
Thank you for your inciteful view of our Christianity.
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Many of the men God used in the Bible had great flaws, like David; God calls him a man after his own heart. He killed a man, got his wife pregnant. That was not the end of the story. God chose people like Paul who had killed Christians to write 3/4 of the New Testament. That wasn’t the end of the story. They knew how to deal with those coming against them. God is on the throne. He isn’t finished with him or you! WATCH and WAIT are 2 big words in the Bible!
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He is calling someone short sighted when it is actually HE who is Short sighted. Apparently He is completely unfamiliar with The Good Samaritan Ministry and did not even open the Decision America Magazine given to ALL WHO ATTEND these events. Franklin Graham travels the Nations of the world ALL YEAR every year while this pastor sits in his cubby hole musing over his short sighted self righteous little speeches. Shame on the Accuser of the Brethren who gives a voice to the devil. Jeremiah 33:3 call to me and I will answer you and show you great and mighty things you do not know. Perhaps we can all turn our attention towards the revealer of the plan and learn what God says instead of becoming jelous of our brother.
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Your time would’ve been better spent praying for Franklin…
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I was raised in an evangelical church (Covenant) and they preach fear and bigotry. It is a cult. I survived the hate and brainwashing to become a proud homosexual man but it was a struggle to overcome the shame and judgement they insist on instilling.
God bless those that try to talk sense into the hateful. Thank you!
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This pastor’s attempt at an entertaining, humorous letter, put down what Rev. Graham believes in. Different Christian sects vary on what they believe. Does this pastor have an inside line to heaven that he knows what he believes is the one and only way? I’m sure someone more familiar with the Bible than myself, can find verses that support what Rev. Graham preaches vs what this pastor does. It would certainly be nice if it had been a letter glorifying God instead of belittling Rev Graham. No wonder Christianity is on the decline. Why don’t we agree to disagree except that God is the one true God and the only way to him is through Jesus Christ…and keep the snarkiness to ourselves.
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I would not share this, simply because this person who claims to be a pastor, does NOT KNOW God’s Word… Whoever wrote this should have at the very least known what he was writing about, certainly not what is written in the Bible, and most importantly what a scripture truly means… Anyone can take a verse out of context and make it mean something that the verse truly does NOT mean…
This person should be ashamed of him, or herself for using God’s Precious Word in this way…
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I wholeheartedly agree with Peter! Our small church is here for the community, whether it’s at a fun ice cream social or pancake breakfast, or when a storm blows down your house or death in the family, we are here for you! My mother has coordinated funeral lunches for decades and never once cared about race or sexual orientation! I’d like to think that’s what Jesus would have done! Thank you for your letter!
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I’d like to discuss these points with you sometime, minus the sarcasm, as much as possible.
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Oh my I would say you are a little bit angry and jealous. I don’t think you follow Franklin Graham at all if you did you would understand where he is coming from. It would help if you knew facts. I understand your frustration with churches in
rural America as I attend one and live in small community. However I don’t think Mr Graham is responsible for what has happened to rural churches. The mega-churches and their leaders are responsible for that. I know my denomination has fostered the mega-churches at the expense of smaller congregations. Let us put blame where it is due. Have you ever heard of God’s Grace people change enemy President Trump.
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Yo, Peter
Maybe in your comfortable little church (30-40 members) in a small community you don’t face any persecution. But as someone who has lost clients, job opportunities and relationships with friends and family members for standing for the truth of the Gospel, I can tell you with great certainty that you have your head deep in the sand.
I’m not crazy about Rev. Graham’s coziness with the Great Orange Plague. And I think he is sometimes a little too reflexively conservative and outspoken on issues that have nothing to do with the Gospel. But he is dead right about the need to win our culture back for Christ, one sinner at a time.
So maybe aim your fire at someone on the other side, rather than a man who is putting his own reputation on the line for the truth of God.
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The pastor of the small Church as a True Believer… the money-making Frank Graham is a fake
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Thank you, Pastor Peter. On this rock, His church was founded, not on the rock of Frank. And I’m pretty sure, Billy wouldn’t much like it either. I’m hoping he’s too old and I’ll to be aware of how far away from how far he had come over time Frank had fallen.
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Talk about leading christians to perdition, this letter takes the cake. How many Christians have left the fold since the Johnson amendment was adopted? This country has a history of Christian leadership taking their followers into battle, quite literally, against the British, yet you advocate that Christians keep mum because the government says so. No business should be forced to serve any, repeat ANY customer with whom they feel threatened or otherwise disagree with their politics or lifestyle. The only place government intrusion has been justified is with racial discrimination in Public schools or public institutions. A private school or private religious institution should not be forced to serve the desires of a person or persons with whom they have personal convictions of any sort with which they feel those convictions are being violated and that includes any business. You have the personal right to take your business anywhere you like and they have the same right to refuse to serve you. That’s called freedom. Your position in this regard condemns Christianity to its doom in this country just as it has already been nearly eliminated in Europe. Open your eyes and look around you a little farther than the four walls of your church.
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Dear Peter,
I used to have a brother named Peter, who was called “Pee” as a term of endearment by one of my uncles. So do you mind if I call you “Pee”? Feel free to call me Jeff or “JayMo,” as some of the youngsters affectionately call me.
So Pee, I’ve worked in big churches and small community churches, and I’ve also worked in small poor refugee churches in a Muslim country. Anyone was welcome to the church—Iraqis, Jordanians, Egyptians, Palestinians, Kurds—whether they were Christian, Muslim, or people of no faith.
Samaritan’s Purse, an organization founded by Franklin Graham, provided gift boxes from Christians in the United States for the refugees and other people we lived and worked among. Though we gave priority to the people in the church, we distributed these boxes to people in need, both Christians and Muslims.
Anyway, Pee, the gifts were a testimony to the love of Christ by American Christians. Many Muslims were astounded to think that true Christian love reached to those outside their own community to those of a different faith. This concept was largely foreign to many Muslims, who believe that zakat should go to Muslims in need, not Christians in need. So working hand-in-hand with Samaritans Purse, we helped the hungry and the thirsty, the poor, the fatherless, and those who had lost almost everything at the hands of a brutal dictator, or who were further exploited and persecuted by cruel religious authorities. You know, the hands-on Matthew 25 kind of stuff, made possible to some degree by Franklin Graham and Samaritans Purse. Because of their generosity and willingness to meet needs regardless of religious background, Samaritans Purse is one of two organization that I continue to support to this day.
Franklin Graham puts both prayer and work into action. The assistance the ministry provides is enabled by the freewill donations of people who believe that prayer, faith, and action go hand-in-hand. I believe his example of going to cities and villages, doing good, and brining the good news of the kingdom, is in line with the example of Jesus as we find in Luke 8:1-3 and Acts 10:38.
Pee, you seem very interest in finding ways to help the poor and oppressed—except, perhaps, if they don’t agree with what appears to be your thinly-disguised political agenda. As evidenced by his ministry, Franklin Graham is interest in helping the poor and oppressed as well, without regard to a person’s political beliefs.
Pee, is it really that shocking that Donald Trump has broken some if not all of the 10 commandments? I’d be much more shocked if I found out he hadn’t! But being as you brought up the matter, could tell me how many of the 10 commandments YOU have not broken? I’m just wondering if you are any more qualified to be in the ministry than Donald Trump is to be president of the United States.
Here’s the thing, Pee. You can always find sin in people’s lives. For some people you might have to look a little harder than others, but it’s always there. So could you quantify for me how many sins and what types of sins it takes to disqualify a person from running for political office—or even being a community church pastor?
Pee, Jesus spoke some of his harshest words against religious leaders. In Matthew 23 He called them blind guides, hypocrites, whitewashed tombs full of dead people’s bones, serpents, and brood of vipers. I wonder if He is disqualified for the words he used.
Pee, thanks for stepping up to the task and attempting to take down Franklin Graham. I’m sure he won’t respond to you, but I will—and I am thankful that Franklin Graham has a voice in the public square and is willing to use it speak out publicly against some of the things we need to fix in our society.
Yours truly,
JayMo
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I found this letter to Franklin Graham very sad – It was flippant and arrogant. If you have an issue with Franklin Graham, there are ways to speak the truth in love. This letter sounded pretty hateful and dripping with sarcasm.
You quoted Matthew 25, but nowhere in Matthew 25 does it say the Government should provide these things. It says “you”. Our giving and our charity and our love is to be personal. Did you know that Conservatives give a lot more money to charity than Liberals? Just because someone doesn’t believe in big government, doesn’t mean they are uncharitable. Quite the opposite, we know that government run healthcare is a nightmare – just look at the VA. Franklin Graham runs Samaritan’s Purse, an amazing organization helping people around the world. I believe he is walking the walk.
In all the stories I’ve read of Christians who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding had actually served these people for years and refused to PARTICIPATE in the wedding – much different than refusing service to someone because they are gay, which would of course be wrong. The gay couples then went on to try and financially ruin these people – these weren’t small fines but rather outrageous fees that caused them to lose their business. Again, which group are the haters here?
It’s ironic that the same liberals who shout that Christians should be forced to bake a cake for a wedding are the same ones who applauded designers who refused to make a dress for our First Lady.
Of course we should feed the poor and help those in need – “we” not the government. In fact, when I was a student in Paris, France, I stopped on the street to help a homeless man and my Parisian friend said to me “why are you helping him, let the government do it.” This is why giving should be personal….because it changes our hearts and helps us see our fellow human beings as image bearers of God….not “the government’s problem.”
It’s easy to champion causes the world approves of but does your church preach a pro-life message? Does it take up causes that are close to God’s heart but unpopular with the world? I hope so. I agree with most of what Franklin Graham says although not everything, but I love his fearlessness and his willingness to preach the Gospel without shame.
Our faith should humble us instead of making us point fingers at each other all the time. None of us has it 100% right, but I do know that cherry picking the Bible to suit our lifestyle is not right. We have to take the entire Bible and apply it to our lives. Even Jesus said he had not come to replace the law but to fulfill it.
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I do not see Jesus in the snarky self righteous tone of this pastor. This is very sad & hateful, it could have been said better.
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Exactly! Well said.
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I’m not a Trump fan but this “letter” was very disrespectful. Not saying I disagree with all of it but the overall tone of the letter was very demeaning to Dr Graham. And from a pastor?? Wow! He needs to reconnect with our Lord and Savior and what it means to be a Christian.
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I didn’t vote for Trump and don’t support him. Nor do I agree with most of Rev. Graham’s political worldview. That said, this letter could have been much more Christian. The amount of disdain and sarcasm is unbecoming and does nothing to promote understanding or unity. It belies the claim that you want to see him as your brother. There is just as much sarcasm and disdain among conservatives criticizing liberal Christians they haven’t taken the time to understand.
There are two sides in the political world. In the Church there may be various opinions, but there should only be one side. Do we all believe that Jesus is God, that he died and is alive in the flesh today, that he calls us to holiness and love? Then it should be love, as well as a love for justice, that characterizes the way we interact with others. In this letter, you seem to confuse holiness with liberal politics (just as Graham confuses it with conservative politics), and it is difficult to see the love at all.
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I read this whole article. Doesn’t sound like much “love your neighbor as yourself” to me. The whole letter reeks of jealousy & hate. Very political. You diss the ppl you don’t agree w/& then go on to tell how spiritual you are. You present yourself as an expert on anything you discuss. I don’t hear anything about who you’ve reached to help, etc. Your Church stays small because you are. All inward thinking. Disguised as a Pastor. Wow. Read your letter again, try how God would perceive it. You are def judging. Also like him or not, your calling Rev Graham, Fran, is disrespectful. You ask if you can call him Frank, like you really care, then you do it. That is making you feel so in large & in charge I imagine. You are a real work in progress. I hope in progress anyway. I’ll pray for you & your eyes to be opened to the truth so you can preach that to the unsaved, instead of hate & division.
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so very well said, Peter. We , as Christians and yes, even no believers’ need to pray for all people and all things. Thank you for your reminder of helping those in need.
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Your argument sounds like nothing but a political statement. Jesus warned of false prophets like you who would sound like they were real, but in reality had nothing to do with him. Your god is the government not the Almighty. That’s all the moral code of Barack Obama tried to insure is that the Government and not God would have the moral code. Why would he do that? Dare say he was against the True God? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. A Christian sees a complete and total reversal of the Word of God in the precious government. Sin is not sin in your version. Health care coverage for 20 million people sounds so sad, but in realty just about all companies have had to bail on it because of how it has made them broke. Why profit? Because that is the only way they can exist! If not the Government who produces nothing would have to provide everything. Please do me a favor and quit leading people to the false God of government.
History proves why our constitution is set up to give freedom to all citizens endowed by the Creator!!!!!!! Not the Government.
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“We don’t have your money, your access to the halls of power or your seeming direct connection to the Almighty. But we have the scriptures, we have prayer, and we are learning every day what it means to love God with all our hearts, souls, minds and strength and to love our neighbors as ourselves.” In other words, we’re decent human beings.
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Thanks brother Peter, couldn’t say it better I wanted to but didn’t have the words to express my self,but here you are and I know you believe in miracles and you just give me one by being a voice for small churches thanks again
Servant of CHRIST JESUS.
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Couldn’t have said it better. I applaud those who are willing to call a spade a spade no matter how popular that view is
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Thank you Reverand. I thoroughly enjoyed for post. It’s not for us to judge. We aren’t without sin. We don’t have to agree with a person’s lifestyle, but we shouldn’t judge them. Just to live our neighbor. Again, thank you.
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Thank you, thank you.
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Sadly the Pastors of this letter clearly displays through his words a heart that isn’t displaying the love that God the Father calls us to have for one another as sons of His. If Peter would focus of being loving towards his brother Franklin Graham as he does towards those who are not members of the household of faith, it would have resulted in a letter that was properly written on love while expressing personal concerns and not full of sarcasm or passive aggressive statements. Peter would better benefit from examining the issues of his own heart before he decides to focus on the shortcomings of others.
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Interesting that he referenced obeying the law yet police can’t call ICE if they find an illegal because it is a sanctuary city and Bill had sex in the oval office and the Clinton foundation took millions from countries who whack off heads of gays, women who are raped are stoned or beheaded, Christians, etc, Seems like double standard of biblical interpretations to me. But then again I am not a pastor.
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Sir, it is obvious that you can and do a good job of picking scriptures to bolster your belief. Don’t be naïve and believe that evil, Satan (he’s in the Bible also see Isiah 14) , is not real and rules this world and is out to kill, steal and destroy. Deception begins small and is incremental, ever herd of how to boil a bullfrog? Freedom is in Christ, bondagecis in Satan. So if you do not have the freedom to choose whom you do or do not do business with is thatvfreefom or bondage? Should someone be forced to serve a person not wearing a shirt or shoes in their restaurant because that is discrimination?
Pete, can I call you Pete, you can call me a child of God. Abortion is legal in this country, is that Godly or is that murder. Yes there are many statements in the OT of how the pagan murdered and sacrificed their children. We just have a new technology where we can do it prior to birth. I guess you think that’s alright. Since you are so into being law abiding I would challenge you to invite Planned Patenthood to speak at your church.
Franklin Graham preaches what he believes and God has blessed him enormously. Is there a spit of envy there that he is successful and you are not? See the book of James; you might vaguely remember him as Jesus’s brother. Perhaps your disagreement with pastor Graham IS political, he is on the right and you are on the left. Personally I am unable to see how someone can be a Christian and be on the left. It seems so in opposition to God’s teaching but does line up nicely with what God writes about Satan. I guess in a demented way the correlation that Satan, created by God, is a messenger of God. The problem is the message being delivered.
Freedoms of all kinds have been seriously eroded in the past forty years. Too many of both sides of the political aisle have bathed in corruption and prostituted themselves for self. If you think about it for a moment some similarities exist between how Trump is being treated to how Jesus was treated. Both with enemies in the inner circle betraying them, both hated by some of their own people, and both being seen in the eyes of the world as dangerous and something to be destroyed.
As I like to say Pete, man sees the motions but God sees the motives. What are your?
A Child of God
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He sounded very disrespectful to you Rev. Graham. Sounded like he was jealous, because he’s ONLY from a small church. He should also be praying for our President and our country. You don’t have to have a large church for God to be there. Pray for all things.
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So if I go into a bakery alone, will the owners ask my sexual orientation? Ask me if I’m a murderer, rapist, liar? No I don’t think so. Heck, I could even be an atheist! So without that knowledge they will bake me a cake. Makes them as will as discriminatory to the gay couple, hypocrites.
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Pastor Peter unfortunately you need to wake up and see the world – not your little country social club (church). I am thankful for Franklin Graham’s call to action on political, social and religious issues which are having a major impact on every state, city and community in this nation. I wonder by your letter if you take a stand on these issues or do you only preach the new age seeker religion. I also wonder if you even believe that it is possible that God could of had something to do with President Trump being elected as president. I believe God determined to place Donald Trump as president to bring America back to God. I don’t know if he is saved or not but I do know he has a group of birnvagain pastors advising and praying with and for him on a regular basis. Instead of being critical of other pastors and having a putty party because you only have a “small” congregation start trusting and believing that God will increase your ministry. However with your attitude I do not think it is possible until you change your attitude and repent for your condescending words and action.
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Great! That’s from the heart of a true Christian!
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Way to go Pastor Pete
We have more things to worry about. And by the way. I’m gay and I do believe that God is my savior he died on the cross to save me from sin. And yes you can be gay and love God also. It’s funny how people want you to be truthful but when you are your an abomination. Thanks pastor Pete.
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I recommend everyone read The Bait of Satan by John Bevere. It’s very helpful.
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Yes, you are confused. Especially on this part. “He said that if your enemy is hungry you should feed him (that’s in the Bible too). So wouldn’t it have been the Christian way to have baked a cake for the same sex couple in your example, even if you deem them enemies (another assertion I don’t quite understand)? I’m confused.”
Paul is talking about someone who wants to get up and make a snack for themselves or who can have the luxury of going to a different baker 10 blocks away, he’s talking about you know, meeting someone’s basic needs. He’s talking about understanding that humans are image-bearers of God and should be treated as such. In other words, don’t let them suffer or take no joy from their suffering or even better, go out of your way to ease or prevent their suffering.
Paul doesn’t say condone their sin. Paul’s enemy wasn’t hungry for cake. Paul’s enemy was bent on throwing him and jail or killing him. Whatever it took to stifle all of that “Jesus talk.” That’s exactly what the LGBTQ agenda is pushing for when they push this issue. Could they simply go to another baker? Uhm…yeah. Yeah they could. Will they? Yes, they probably will but not before they sue the pants off the bakery or even get them thrown into jail. To what end? Is it for equal rights? No. It’s to stifle all of this “Jesus talk.”
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Amen,& thank you for standing up for Christianity not $$$$
My original thought was that Billy Graham was a man of Christ… my parents saw him in India in the 1950’s and believed in his message. I believe that somewhere down the line the comfortable home the expense of clothes and cars, the servants the power of the position became much more powerful Then the message that Christ wanted put out to the masses
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Reblogged this on and you who have failed.
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Oh, my…Peter, you are the kind of Christian I can admire! PLEASE stop being silentt!!
-Sincerely,
a twnty-year transgender victim of Bible abuse
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This atheist echoes the amen stated above. Sanctimonious hypocracy cloaked in religious garb is once again clearly revealed. “And you never ask questions, when God’s on your side.”
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Speaking as an agnostic I quite enjoyed this essay.
From my own observations of the world I’ve come to the conclusion that people use their beliefs for one of two reasons: guidelines or excuses.
Franklin Graham’s beliefs are excuses for his behaviour.
Pastor Olsen’s are guidelines for his.
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Enough! WAY too much glibness, opinionated intolerance and uncharitableness in all our hearts. For the love of God, rich or poor, pastor or layperson, there is enough work for all Christians to be doing with the poor, the politicians, our neighbors, our families without planting the seeds of divisiveness within ourselves or we really are doomed. There are many ways to serve God and one another. There have been many ways to interpret God’s Wordbut the bottom line is Love God and Love One Another. Forgive one another our bad behaviors, bad interpretations…….give some slack and support even to those we don’t care for in the hope that good will be accomplished in the end….hate the sin but not the sinner. The people of the world have been warring with words and actions forever…….enough!
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Speaking of abomination, from Proverb 6:15-19:
King James Version (KJV)
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Amplied Bible (AMP)
16 These six things the Lord hates; Indeed, seven are repulsive to Him:
17 A proud look [the attitude that makes one overestimate oneself and discount others], a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that creates wicked plans, Feet that run swiftly to evil,
19 A false witness who breathes out lies [even half-truths], And one who spreads discord (rumors) among brothers.
So now, what about abomination?
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Careful of the wolf in sheep clothes. Great letter Pastor.
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Excellent points. Thank you for saying so many things I’ve been thinking… and as for Franklin – well I’ve known him personally (in the past my ex husband and I shared a little vacation with he and his wife and other Christian leaders). I don’t believe the tone was always fair – as I am certain Franklin’s heart is in the right place. And I know he does read the bible – and to accuse him of not doing so seems a little trite. I just think he is human and has followed a doctrine that he believes hasn’t failed him… That said – there are layers upon layers of things going on there (as there are with why my former husband is now my “ex” and why I am thankful that there are some voices out there saying what I am thinking as well…) One thing I know for certain: Eternity most certainly will look a whole lot different than any one of us has imagined… even our vision of God, the father, son and the spirit… and principles we have come to believe are hard and fast rules… (And as I read your letter, I couldn’t help but think of all of the arguments the other side would have, along with scripture verses to back them up)… The fact is, we are all faulty, frail, and just trying to make our way around this big clod of dirt in space… and there is SO MUCH MORE out there we know not of… Anyway – great read!!!
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Peter, a sincere and heartfelt thanks for such a thoughtful, insightful, and strongly-felt reply to Frank.
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NASHED! You Peter are a true follower of Christ!
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This is such a well written piece. I would attend this Pastor’s church. He/ She exemplifies how I feel about Jesus and His preachings. Thank you for your words!
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Could you direct me to what God’s Word teaches about sarcasm, criticism, and envy?
Thank you. And may God’s spirit of humility bless you today and always….
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At least Franklin Graham has the guts to stand up for righteousness, which is more than I can say for this pastor. Any pastor who condones sin is NOT a pastor, and this guy fits the bill. God is love, but he’s a righteous God who will judge sin.
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Everyone has their right to their opinion, even preachers.
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I think Billy Graham was a good man, Franklin Graham not so much, only after money and if he think God wants Trump in the white house then he is also nuts. I want nothing to do with ANY church that supports Trump. I think Pastor Peter is a true man of God. Trump for sure is from Hell.
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It’s funny to see liberals agreeing with a religious person instead of demonizing him. Its an oxymoron in itself.
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Pastor Peter! Can I just call you “Peter?” I’m just curious as to how that sugar coated Gospel you want people to eat, tastes? You seem to enjoy it, but I’ve heard that too much of it rots your teeth, gives you bad belly aches and can render you so heavy that you can’t move. More over, I hear that it leaves you craving even more, or complaining about it – much like that manna thing with the Hebrews. By the way, given “Franks” record for “feeding and clothing the poor, proclaiming release to the captives (like in North Korea) and the feeding and establishment hope for the hopeless” (like actually facing off with ebola head on), I think that you really need to develop some awesome respect of this man’s ministry. Instead, you’ve seem to choose to embrace a “luke warm” Christian life that resembles what was found in the Church of Laodicea. So, as one pastor to another, let me take this opportunity to offer for you a prayer that God will bless you with a profound sense of humility, as difficult as the circumstances leading up to that might be. Reading your blog, that’s something that seems to be in want where your ministry is concerned.
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Well said! Thank you.
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Wonderful! Well said, beautiful response!
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His pastor says it all .
He is a true man of God.
With a heart and a soul that knows how to love and treat people.
All people no matter what color they are. And no matter what their sexual orientation maybe.
A true man of God does not judge other people .
The carry out God’s will .
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Best reply here is this may be a pastor but I seriously doubt it since he is so secure he calls himself just “peter”. Nor is he proud or secure enough to proclaim the name of the church or location. Smells like this is a left wing poor attempt to gain credibility.
Folks this is fake news. No credibility claimed. Take off your mask Fake one!
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How does one know if the cake you are selling, is not being sold to a murderer? or a thief?
This whole question is difficult for me. I agree with God in all matters, yet to discriminate between people and their particular sin seems to lead people away from Christ, not to a loving forgiving Father who would love to show them the true way.
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Drop the snark (itʻs not funny!), call him by the name he calls himself, and you might actually have a chance that what you wrote will be taken seriously.
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I agree with some of your points; strongly disagree with others. But I have to say I can’t really take you seriously when you take such juvenile pleasure in addressing Franklin Graham as Frank at least 10 times in your letter. Makes you seem small, disrespectful and, well, childish, Petey.
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Well done Pastor Peter, you have spoke what every true Christian has been feeling. I use to watch Franklin Graham but lost all respect for him n the Hagees, I still can’t believe that they as Christians would represent this man. I AM STILL CONFUSED!!!!!!
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Thanks Peter for expressing your views of who’s side God is on so eloquently. I now know of a congregational leadership I will steer very far from. YOURS!!! GOD BLESS Rev Franklin Graham and President Donald Trump! I would vote for him just as much today as I did last November and I’m so thankfull to God we don’t have to endure any more of oboma or the clintons.
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Small Church Pastor Peter, have you taken a look at the demise of American culture and life today as depicted in our media, entertainment on the movie and TV screens and on our street corners and wondered how it got this way? Precisely because of the judgmental tripe in your letter! Do you recall the stories in the Old Testament of God giving his edict to destroy ALL peoples of a land conquered so as His people were not to be contaminated by the pagan worship and idolatry of the conquered? What happened when they disobeyed God? And you say it is OK to not live by the faith and precepts of the WORD of God so as NOT to offend those who mock Almighty God and His WORD? Preach on Franklin Graham and may God continue to bless your ministry even though many would want us to remain complacent with the action of those who promote the work of our enemy, Satan. As Paul preached, you will be despised by the enemy and by even those who portend to be on the “side of Christ”, but stand firm in the right, as God gives you to see the right. In the reality of today, God uses HIS people to help multiply 2 fish and five loaves of bread into feeding the hungry, not just 5,000 but hundreds of thousands, and in this day, that takes money, which when called upon, people freely give to do the work of the Lord. Mr. Graham, shake the dust from such letters from your feet, and move on, Christian soldiers, move on. From meagerly small congregations did mighty revivals catch fire when the God-breathed message of our Savior was fervently preached. That mighty church, Lakewood, in Houston pastored by Joel Osteen started in a small feed store in East Houston by his Dad, John Osteen, with only a handful in attendance. But the Spirit of the Living Fire preached from the pulpit poured out its flames on the hearts of Houstonians, and the church grew and grew and grew, from one changed heart to another. Bask not in remaining small, Pastor Peter. Janice, a child of God.
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After reading the article, while it offers some thought-provoking points, I had to comment on your reference to Matthew 25 where, at least to me, you seem to imply that salvation is based on how we treat others. Certainly, us loving others through our actions and not with our words only is vitally important. However, one’s good works do not earn one’s entrance to heaven; they are a result of salvation, not a basis for it. …. ” For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them”.
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Amen!! Thank you for being a strong and true voice of true living for Christ. My dad was a small church pastor and theologen of the Bible and deeply loved and respected Rev. Bill Graham. He would be horrified today and is watching now from his place beside God right now appalled as we all are at the lies and deceptions from supposed Christian base. Breaks my heart and infuriates me. Thank you for standing and speaking up!!
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I understand some points of SmallTownChurchPastor concerning areas that he believes Franklin Graham may be too dogmatic, however, some of this is taken out of context. Franklin, much like his father, believes in the inerrancy and absolute truth of the Bible. For example, a homosexual lifestyle couple with an arrogant attitude is not condoned in the Bible but, as you noted, forgiveness is generous. Quite often, to be considered “tolerant,” people are expected to believe that any action is perfectly sane and moral. Not the case. We can live in a “do what you please; it’s your right” world, but no matter where you turn, you will create animosity with those of totally different ideas. Morality, according to God’s Word, is solid. Truth is truth, not contingent on the waves of variance. Billy Graham was respected because he didn’t fluff the ears of either the poor or the rich; he shared God’s call consistently and with total personal conviction. Franklin Graham has had an amazing ministry, as well, and helps thousands upon thousands of less fortunate children (and adults) throughout the world. I agree that Pres. Trump has a lifestyle not necessarily consistent with the highest integrity, but he is nonetheless making some hard decisions that need to be made for America’s security and economic growth.
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You know, I too don’t always agree with everything Rev. Graham posts. I read the same Bible, have a gay daughter whom I love very much, and struggle not so much with that as with her distance from the loving God I follow. . And I have a problem with your words here. However well intentioned they are condescending. “And by their works you will know them.” Ever hear of Samaritan’s Purse? What have you done recently for the poor, the refugee, the families devastated by disaster? I have a feeling on that “judgement” day Rev Graham will do just fine. What about you?
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Well said Kathy.. Thanks for standing up for the Truth. Franklin does not deserve the venomous bashing he is receiving here. He has certainly done far more to help the poor, the sick, the displaced than those who are excoriating him.
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Christian Pastors that believe in the leadership of Donald Trump are causing more confusion about Christianity than Hitler justifying killing the Jews. To those people who study the life of Christ, we are ashamed of your money,and power grabbing Pharisees ways. We use to sacrifice our time and money to send help to list people and the sick. Then they would seek out such a Love. Just study your fathers life and ministry. You don’t speak God’s Word.
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To compare Trump and his supporters to Hitler is way over the top. And that disparity in reasoning is a good example of why the Democrats lost the election. And Franklin has certainly done more to help the sick, the poor, the suffering than those who are bashing him.
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Peter, I am so glad that you have not experienced the anti-Christian persecution in your small town, small church in America. That’s great news, and means it hasn’t spread everywhere. But, there is an attack on our values, and an attack on our beliefs going on in this country. Until the last twenty years, nobody would ever have said that we were not a nation based on Christian values. But over the last two decades, revisionist history has turned founding fathers who believed in a Christian God, and built the nation on the principles founded in the Bible, and wanted to make sure that everyone in our nation was free to worship as they chose, rather than having to be a part of the Church of England. Freedom OF religion has turned in to freedom FROM religion, with secularists and atheists denying that we have any right to maintaining our religious beliefs if we are in public. In my city, and in my life, I have heard many times that Christians should not be allowed to have political beliefs, and that we should not be allowed to pass laws based on our religious beliefs, because there is no room in the government for faith. I’ve experienced people ridiculing believers. I’ve known soldiers who were told they should not be allowed to practice their faith on military bases. So, while your experience may be contrary to there being an attack on believers in the US, perhaps it is just because you’re too small to matter to them at this point.
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So if you agree with the letter your not a Christain for baking a cake? That letter is dead on. Being someone’s child does not make you right. If same sex marriage is an abomination, then what is divorce, stealing, coveting your neighbors stuff. All ten comment stuff we are not to do. If you have commented sin aren’t you in trouble with God? Here’s the thing, we are to love ALL, forgive ALL, and care for ALL people. If someone from the LBGTQ comes to your church let them in. Only if they are trying to covert people to there side do they need to be asked to leave
If they are there to learn, then let them learn and be saved.
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Thank GOD for his servants who stands on God’s Word. EVERYONE can’t be brought nor desire MAN’S APPROVAL, after all what and where is that Man? Second, does MAN have a Heaven or Hell to put you in? My Bible reads,”every knee shall bow,and every tongue shall confess”..it clearly states, God has no respect of person. All have sinned and come short of His Glory!
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So refreshing to read this. God bless you for your loving words. Hope it gets through to the right folks.
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“Of all the things that worry me, loss of religious freedom for Christians in America isn’t one of them. I can’t say I have ever experienced anything in this country that could reasonably be called a restriction on my religious liberty, much less persecution.”
Fallacy much? The fact that you haven’t personally experienced a loss of religious freedom has no bearing on the people whose livelihoods are being destroyed. Losing your business and all your financial assets in your old age, like Baronelle Stultzmann experienced, is not as bad as death or imprisonment, but it’s still pretty darn serious. You have to be willfully obtuse to pretend that’s insignificant.
“But if they are going to do business in this country, they have to follow the law against discrimination-just like the rest of us. If you don’t like the rules, don’t join the game. It’s that simple. Furthermore, I don’t understand why baking a cake for people whose conduct you find personally offensive is such a big deal.”
The whole point of freedom of religion / freedom of conscience is to protect people whose views are a minority. I don’t understand why avoiding pork is such a big deal–but I don’t want Muslim or Jewish caterers to be sued for declining to serve pork. Your “if you don’t like the rules, don’t join the game” statement is just plain totalitarian.
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That was excelkent. Thank you for this very appropriate and wise reoly. We agree with you and thank you, even though I am of the Hebrew persuasion.Please keep the dialogue ongoung. You are the type of person my family would like to know. What is the name of your parish, and/or where are you located.
BRAVO!
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Why don’t Christians seem to know how to use proper grammar, spelling and punctuation? Don’t they teach that at Christian schools?
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Thank you, Pastor Peter, for reminding us Christians of what we are to do and be. I have been so confused by the Trump followers who support his behavior with women, his pathological lying and his absolute greed. It’s nice to know that my understanding of the Bible isn’t in error.
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Loved this letter, my family not so much and wow am I catching heck for it! I am a heathen for believing that whole “love thy neighbor” thing! I didn’t vote for Trump, sacrilege! My perceived “liberal” views are considered un-Christian! So be it! If this pastor ran a church in my town my face would be as familiar as his. I’d be right there, feeding the hungry, caring for the sick and the dying and helping bury the dead – no matter who they are or what they believe – because I’m a Christian.
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thanks for setting us all straight about what Christianity is … too many people have sadly strayed from the original concept! Well said
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Ill stick with the pastor from the small church. He seems connected to Christ then Mr Graham. Im sure you reach people everyday in your line of work. Not acting as a judge will make people be drawn to you and hear what you say. Plus you dont have all that worry , asking for money all the time, seeing that your jet is in good shape, seeing how many people are commiting sins and what kind, having to judge, if they are heaven bound or hell bound. Thats a worry. It kinda wearing to be so self righteous all the time. Im sure you pastor have time to really get to know your God, and that makes it easier for you to understand others. You dont have to gudge them or decide where they go when they die, thats a big big worry. Im sure you leave that up to God, I know I do. That way we have time to love others, help others care about others help others in very meaningfull ways. I bet you sir worry about the eldery, the ill, the homeless, the family thats out of a joband you pray to God to help them. And telling him to help you find a way to do your part. Yep I am a little church person, just trying to help those I can. I dont as for there history. Dont think its my business. Im with you pastor and God Bless you and all the pastors like you.
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Franklin’s Samaritan’s Purse gives food, clothing, shelter for disaster relief at home and broad. They are working with refugees in the European camps, field hospital and relief in northern Iraq, providing food in famine stricken South Sudan, and water filtration systems to families who don’t have access to clean water and that is just the short list. CharityNavigators.org rated them an overall 96.3 and 100% in transparency and accountability. I think it is safe to say that Graham and Samaritans Purse are living the commands of Jesus to care for the needy. They may do it differently than it might be done in small town America, but it is being done
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I wonder if any of you have considered the fact that the Bible was edited several times and written by man. I think everyone, including “Peter” is trying to justify their own opinion. In my own humble opinion, if you live by the ten commandments, you have accomplished what Jesus preached. Why try to justify or condemn what and how everyone chooses to believe.
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Christ’s followers cone from diverse backgrounds and upbringings. None of us are identical to Christ, just called to be like him. I support Rev Graham and his ministry. Taking a stand against evil is required, lest you fall into that evil. I also understand Christ’s message about gathering with like minded believers. If you disagree with Rev Graham, find others to congregate with and support. Hopefully more than the 30-40 you gather with now. Supporting leaders is also a Biblical truth. Support is not agreement with their agenda, but delivering appropriate respect and honor for their position in society.
May God Bless your ministry Peter. May God Bless Franklin Graham’s ministry as well.
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Oh my goodness Peter, that was Brilliant! God bless you, I certainly hope he reads your letter! That’s exactly how Jesus tells us how to be Christians & to follow His Word! Thank you for writing your letter! I pray it touches his heart!
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Thank you for this! As a Christian, I have been horrified by the actions (or lack of them) and the talk coming from many Christians lately. Franklin Graham is a prime example of this. I have been saying to many of these people exactly what Peter said only to be told that I didn’t know Christ and that I need to read my Bible. I do read my Bible almost every day which is why I didn’t recognize Christ in their recent actions. (Let me say that I know I’m not perfect either and am working on acting more like Christ with His help.) Thank you for writing this wonderful, on point letter that I will be sharing with anyone that I can.
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I do not believe, Peter, that you have not attained it all as of the writing of this letter. I am not judging you, Peter; I am discerning. A believer’s goal, pastor’s included, is to become more like Jesus. He is always our example. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Jesus was the epitome of humility. Please, along with me, ask to be more humble and to respect, as well as, to love others. You just “sound” as if you have a haughty spirit and a great amount of arrogance. May Jesus bring His peace to you always.
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Well said Peter. I pray Rev. Graham can embrace the humility of Christ and turn away from nationalism and empire worship.
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I wonder if Peter has the same level of concern for the unborn babies that have been slaughtered by Planned Parenthood and their ilk. That’s why most people voted for Donald Trump, because he would do what he could to reduce the number of murders of unborn babies.
He certainly isn’t the most righteous man we’ve had as president. But at least he doesn’t push for more killing of the innocent like his opponent and predecessor did.
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My lifetime ministry (now 40 years) has been among small, faith-filled congregations with 30 to 50 members & their passionate, caring local pastors. My experience is that pastors hold each other up! I so admire the tenure, intent, & purpose of this inimitable response to the very hefty Frank Graham! I fully believe God still speaks through those who are humble & contrite. I appreciate the voice of the Lord through this small town pastor.
-Rev. Jerry Stone
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The definition of a false prophet right here. I would tell you to read 2 Peter but you would probably say that’s not written by Peter. So read Paul’s writings (all of the words).You just butchered the words and teachings of of Christ!!Telling people they can sin anyway they want to is a denial of the Lordship of Christ Jesus and it is evil!!
Here’s the thing, Frank. At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes. His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us. No, I didn’t get that from any private chat with God. We small church pastors have to rely on the Bible for our intel. I got this stuff from the Gospel of Matthew, 25th Chapter to be precise. As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.)
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I don’t believe you are a pastor. We are losing our religious freedoms. We should have the right to refuse to bake cakes or perform weddings for same sex couples. Same sex marriages are against God’s laws. We should feed the hungry, but at the same time we shouldn’t live a life that is in constant conflict with God and His word. He forgives sin, but he tells us to go and sin no more.
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You are absolutely amazing! I thank you for every word you wrote!!!!
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Now THIS IS A REAL PASTOR/PREACHER. Not really sure why the Republicans think they’re the only ones with a lifeline to God. Everything they do and say is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught, and he would MOST DEFINITELY NOT be a Conservative. In fact I think he would be extremely PISSED at those fake Christians using his name to spread lies, deceit, and hate about anyone, PERIOD!
Just because you don’t like someone because of the color of their skin, or what part of the world they’re from, or who they choose to love, in the Bible, THOSE ARE ALL REASON TO LOVE THEM MORE, and is EXACTLY what Jesus did. He was with the poor, the sick, the dying, and the outcasts. Ask yourself, which one are you?!
NOT take away their rights as a human being, or citizen.
That it why RELIGION in this Country is going down hill, and the faithful have dropped by DOUBLE DIGITS, and the mass majority want NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH, OR RELIGION. They see the lies and the complete falseness of the people preaching. They no longer preach love, and support people. They support the ones that agree with them, or are wolves in sheep clothing, like them.
THATS SAD!
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Everyone on here that calls themselves christians, but talks down to people and in a way that would immediately cause the other person to be on the defensive bothers me. I strongly believe that we can disagree but I do not believe we should disrespect. I do not know of any examples of Jesus speaking to people with sarcasm, but if he did I would appreciate knowing where. I am still learning and I definitely do not know everything. Thanks.
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Bravo, Peter: Can I call you by that name. I am Richard. Don’t call me Ray or Jay, or late for dinner. Seriously. If we “small churches” we have up to 6 on Sundays at Saints Philip and James in Morenci, Arizona. And all of these six are deeply involved in following Christ’s direction and his teachings.
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Thank you Rev. Peter for standing up for what is right I would like to add another reason to your good points. If a church gets special exemption from the law, then so would a Mosque. Is Rev Frank fighting for Shariah law also? Our Constitution guarantees freedoms based on the individual being protected not a majority with hurt feelings thankfully. Having a pulpit and a loud voice should come with a measure of responsibility and common sense or let the persecution truly begin against person who shows neither.
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It’s really sad how Christians judge each other. God has called different ones to do different things. I think this is one reason why many want nothing to do with Jesus, because of how Christians back stab and gossip. Jesus paid a great price to save us and set us free. Let’s keep our focus on Him who loves you so much.
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I too am a Catholic and I am deeply disturbed by Mr. Grahams opinons and teachings. I positively agree with Pastor Peter. Only our Lord has the power to Judge and as we know He is an all loving and forgiving God. One day perhaps he will forgive Mr Graham for his self-serving thoughts and beliefs.
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I totally agree with you Peter..Well said!
I am appaled at the words of Franklin Graham..
Im sure if his father knew he would be very ashamed.
Gods Blessings to you and your church.
Kathy
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I never understood how Franklin Graham and so many evangelical preachers were supporters of Donald Trump when Trump’s behaviors stands against every Christian principles in the Bible!
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Thank you for being a minister and not a political frontman using church as his cover. Franklin Graham’s father, the renowned Billy Graham, would be kicking his son’s ass, and agreeing with you. He believed in biblical principles you spoke of, and ministered to Presidents to govern kindly. Some listened and some didn’t.
People wonder why some of us look down at them when they start talking about Christian persecution. You hit the nail on the head. They’ve been sold a bill of goods that is totally against what the Bible says. While they have their pity party the person they say God has anointed will starve children, take away medical help, and behave like the Money traders at Temple doors. I am not that kind of Christian and have no pity for the whiners and the Republicans who are doing this and worse to our world. They seem to care nothing about our world, or the inhabitants of it, human or animal. I have yet to see biblical Behavior in our government since January 20th, 2017.
Thank you for your letter to Franklin Graham. Big mega churches are there for a reason but I have never seen one whose first purpose is to worship the Lord.
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You have truly need for prayer,Peggy B. Jesus could not have said his message more clearly. How is it possible your thinking has become all that Jesus hated? But you are so full of what you think is the “true” way is the center of evil.
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Hey pastor Peter, I think next time before you post something like this please step away for a long time and then come back and reread what you wrote. I found your letter very condescending and mean spirited in parts. You should have edited and done rewrites to formilate better what you wanted said. For example editing out all you wrote in parentheses and those silly demeaning questions (?) towards the end. Totally unnecessary. And I don’t mean this in a condescending way.
FYI, Franklyn Graham is not a pastor of a church or a mega church as You stated. He heads up two Christian organizations, the BGEA that his father began and Samaritan Purse which he started.
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Franklin Graham isn’t his Father Billy Graham. Franklin is a Daddy wanna be, a total phony in it for the cash. Anyone who compares Franklin with Billy Graham, doesn’t know Billy Graham’s history.
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Pastor Peter, I am not an atheist but I do not practice any organized religion. I hope you do not consider me a hypocrite for saying this.
God bless you Pastor Peter for doubling down on the good things I got from my religious training in Catholic School.
I hope Pastor Frank can come around because it is people like him who drive open minded humanitarian people from church.
Thank you, sincerely
Don Mayer
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Loved this. Laughed at criticisms. Pastor of small churches for 50 years.
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Peter I agree with most of what you said but if not TRUMP then who…why don’t you tell us just how Hillary would have been as a President…and a lot of what you said about TRUMP I do not believe ever happened but some I know did but who are you to judge or me for matter..now tell me why Hillary would have been better lol
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Evangelicals have helped presidents get elected since Lincoln, and expect something in return> Lincoln removed ‘E Pluribus Unum’ from the cash and replaced it with something meaningless. Then the mint reverted back.
Ike did the same thing, plus abuse of the pledge. Bill Graham feathered his bed for 50 years, living like royalty at taxpayer expense while whispering sweet nothings in the ear of presidents, not because he had anything useful to say, but because he could rally the troops and get out the vote.
Obama didn’t need any of that and donations to the Graham dynasty dwindled. Bill, Franklin and Anne Graham Lotz went a bit nuts with their desperate, overblown rhetoric about Trump, making him sound like the second coming. He won, and Trump owes the Graham dynasty a favor.
One wonders what that might be. Education vouchers for parochial schools? (Actually, I support that. Not because I support parochial schools, but because in most cases, they deliver a better product at less cost than public schools). Or more tax advantages to churches and religious schools?
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Pastor Peter said what I’ve been trying to articulate to those that think 45 is the will be good for them as Christians. Please people read your Bible, God is very clear in what He does not like, but He is also very clear in what He wants from us, they are different and most of all we are told to Love them any way.
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You did not react to the concept of following the Gospel. Are enemies are to be loved.
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Well said Pastor Peter. I agree with every single point you made.
It is wonderful to hear a Christian Pastor actually being Christian for a change.
Thank you for sharing the love and shaming the hate.
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I’m also the pastor of a small church. I can say our size compares favorably to yours, pastor. Grounded? If I tell you what town our church is in, you still won’t know (unless maybe you Google it).
Now maybe Graham (I won’t say “Frank”) is over-doing the persecution thing but religious liberty has been under attack in a number of quarters. It doesn’t make headlines and it is subtle, but it’s there.
I have to suggest that you might want to lighten up. This “ever hear of Peter or Paul” jazz strikes me as a real attitude problem. Pride does goeth before the fall, brother. Snide remarks are not particularly holy.
As the leader of Samaritan’s Purse, Graham has faced his share of struggle. Remember the Ebola crisis? Our media ignored it completely until one of the doctors of Graham’s group was infected. Graham’s organization was called upon to care for many of those infected. Finally, President Obama, to his credit, sent aid that ultimately brought an end to the crisis.
In summary, yes, Graham has numerous flaws, but he’s also doing a lot more to care for needy folks around the world than most of us and maybe what Abraham Lincoln said is true – “Those who have never made mistakes have never done anything.”
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This pastor named Peter should look up Samaritan’s purse and all the help he’s done for the children of the world! The Christmas boxes sent every Christmas! The hospital erected outside Mosel and going with supplies and aid to rebuild places in the USA and around the world after a disaster hits! Also he is very disrespectful in what he says! I want to know what Peter is doing to build up his church and the projects he does! He doesn’t talk or act like Jesus would! He would help Franklin Graham build up the body of Christ-he needs to act and talk like Christ!
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“THE Wall” between “church-&-state” Clearly NEEDS to Be festooned w/ garlands of Barbed-Wire, Booby-Trapped-“Tasers” & numerous bouquets of assorted Prolific-Prickly-Poisonous-PLANTS !!!
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Thank you. Here In Australia there are mega churches too. A few of us have similar concerns to yours, about their staff. You seem to share our concerns. They worry you enough, that you write about them. A lot of us are worried, too. It’s good to know we’re not alone.
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I’ve seldom heard more illogical, irrelevant, fact less and, frankly ridiculous assertions than dear Number Seven above writes! Not worth exhaling or arguing, I’d clearly be dismissed as misguided wrong, and probably sacrilegious…like he calls this Pastor. KUDOS to whomever wrote this piece…and Blessing to his small church. Then again, if he really were Christian, really honest, really sincere, really preaching properly he wouldn’t have such a pathetically tiny church…I guess that’s the wrath of G-d showing him what a terrible Christian he is by causing his church to be so small…blessings to that tiny place and it’s decent, religious congregation!
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Beautiful and thank you. We need a lot more voices like yours.
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Well, I don’t know everything that Franklin Graham said when he spoke to the pastors of these small churches, but this I do know. 1. Christianity is under attack in the US and around the world. Christians today are belittled for their beliefs and Muslims are protected for their beliefs. 2. Trump is not a man of God, he is simply our president and he has many character defects. 3. Same-sex marriage is a sin and a person should have the right to refuse to bake a gay couple’s wedding cake if they believe it is wrong. Christ is the bridegroom and the Church is His bride. Marriage is a God-given institution and that is more than enough of a reason to not be OK with same-sex marriage. Can you even imagine Christ being the groom to a man! I know people who are gay and I know they were born that way and did not choose it, but it doesn’t mean they should be allowed to marry. Let them have a civil union if they want to have the same rights as a married couple…but please, do not call it marriage. I have no hatred toward them…I have relatives and close friends who are gay and I love them dearly. The lines of right and wrong are so blurred in this country. All we ever hear about is “this is my right” or “we deserve this or that”. Get over it! Be thankful for what you have. Franklin Graham does more to help starving children and people who have nothing than you can even begin to imagine. Does that count for nothing? This story is more of an attack on Billy and Franklin Graham than it is about anything else. Maybe you’re hoping this little story will make you famous, Peter?
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This is not a letter of christianity. This is a letter of someone’s personal opinion. God set standards. Reach it or don’t. Want God or don’t. It’s not rocket science. It’s a matter of the heart. It’s not for arguing. To God be the Glory. Aim for His standards people. AIM HIGH!
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I would think that Franklin Graham, a former drug addict (by his own admission) might understand the ministry of Jesus Christ a tad better. Not so much. Make that: Not at ALL. He is an evil-doer riding on his precious Daddy’s coattails….and RUINING the Graham legacy in the process! Shame on him.
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He needs to read Romans chapter 1 real good, but it is a far cry today, because I can’t find Paul’s Gospel in any church house today, and we are going to be judge by it ( Romans 2:16) ON JUDGEMENT DAY !!!
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Peter you are a Rock!
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I totally agree.
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Dear Anon,
Such we know Rev Franklin Graham and where and whom he serves, I noticed Rev Pastor of a Small Church, that we don’t know who you are (your name), where you serve and what church. I agree with some of what you say.
However, I find your tone offensive and snide. Not one that reflects brotherly love or concern. And your anonymity seems to fit your small-ness.
I do pray that you continue to do all of the good works that you listed and that others will join your ranks to serve our Lord.
Rev Philip Lambert retired.
Philiplambert@sbcglobal.net
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Hey everyone. I’m not a Christian, I’m a Buddhist, but I thought you might appreciate an external perspective.
Your religion, as a practice of spirituality, is dying – having willful ingested and, and been subsequently poisoned by, politics.
I’m going to be very blunt with you: If you Christians do not pull your head out of your collective asses and actually take your religion – forcibly – back from the Franklin Grahams who have hijacked it, you are not going to have anything left worth salvaging in about 30 – 40 years, because they will have destroyed it.
You are not going to save Christianity by passively talking about what a shame it is that so many Christians aren’t really Christians – because: yea, they are, and they are destroying everything.
Stop talking, get off your lazy asses, organize, and do something about the mess that is your religion in this country.
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God didn’t give us brains more powerful than the most advanced computers, to be afrid of progress, diferences or learning. The author makes many valid points, all reinforced by the caveat, also in the Bible, “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven”. Franklin Graham, and Joel Osteen, pander to those who wish to believe that sentence is the one thing incorrect in their Bibles. God will have words with those of you who have cherished ignorance, fear and self-righteousness, over Chist’s message of “love, acceptance and forgiveness”.
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How true. It good to hear from a Follower of Christ who has true faith. Rather than cultural Christianity
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Amen, Patrick!
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so as a christian i have always wondered. if christ is the only way to heaven, what happened to all the other people around the world before mass media.
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Alleluia well said amen
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Who’s law would you prefer to follow: Man’s law or God’s law? You do know that man marrying man and women marrying women is wrong in God’s eyes? You do know that if you can’t read your bible in a public place or pray or talk about God because it might offend someone is not of God and it is a form of being persecuted? Jesus said you deny me and I will deny you, right? It doesn’t matter if you are a small church or a big church. What does matter if you are truly preaching God’s Word as it is written and teaching the finished work of the cross. You should never lift you or your church yourself but let God promote you. When this country can let Muslims (who are trying to change America to their beliefs) worship their god without any trouble whatsoever no matter who it offends or let devil worshipers worship their god without any trouble whatsoever no matter who it offends then Christians should be able to pray where they want to out loud or in silent. Their children should be able to carry their bibles to school if they want too and pray. People at work should be able to pray or read their bible, but you know what they aren’t allowed too because people not just in government are so afraid they are going to offend those who don’t care who they offend. These are just some of things Franklin Graham was talking about. If you can’t see it, then I will pray for God to open your eyes to see the truth. You have no right to judge Franklin Graham for what he says or believes just like you wouldn’t want anyone to judge you. Remember what God’s word says, This world is not our home. We are just traveling through. So don’t get caught up in this world and what it deems is right, but search the scriptures and deem what God Almighty says it right.
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Christians try to be Christ-like. I’d dought that Christ would write such a letter. It’s disrespectful, sarcastic, antagonistic and, of course completely wrong except for one admission which is that he is “confused”.
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Reblogged this on Apple Pie and Napalm and commented:
This is a must read!
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Praise God for little churches – and their pastors!
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It’s a sorry world we live in and everyone thinks they are right and I’m no exception and I don’t claim to know everything in or about the Bible but I know how to read and I do. A couple of things I always wondered about were first , why did Lot stay in soon when he knew the people were vexed. Seems like he sat upon the gates of the city which was a position of importance . Wonder if he liked cakes? The second was about the gal that didn’t want to issue a same sex marriage license. Last time I checked I believe Jesus said to render unto Ceasar and it being a government office which is there to make money then maybe she could have been more like Lot. I’m sure I’ll get some major beatdown over this comment but it’s just a question and I’m not the only person that ever thought it.
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I believe in keeping politics out of church. I go to church to hear the word, I don’t want a paster to tell me how to vote if I don’t want to go to Hell. We must remember churches have both Democrates and Republicans attending, so if you talk politics some are gonna be left out. We changed churches once for that reason. Some people left for good. Please keep politics out of the church!
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Dear Franklin: I know your name is not Frank. I just want to say a few things to you. Please keep standing up for Christian business owners who are being targeted and bullied with intolerance and discrimination by certain groups and lobbyists. Please keep working to bring aid and relief to those who are affected by war, religious persecution (if anyone knows what that looks like, you surely do), and natural disasters all over the world. And most importantly, please continue to preach the soul-saving Gospel around the world for as long as you can. We know that time is short.
You have borne much good fruit, and millions of people have been blessed by your ministry. I’m praying for you. Thank you, sir, and God bless you.
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Thank you for the thoughtful opposition to the evangelical mega churches. These pastors herd people to the GOP even though the republican party is beholden to billionaires and corporations, not the general attendees of the mega church.
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This is an amazing letter. This religious liberty law, pushed by Vice President Pence,sounds like another law to divide the country. There is now a law to bring politics to the pulpit. More power for the architects of these schemes in disguised as God’s will.😒
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I don’t line the pockets of preachers or their style of luxury. I give to family that is in desperate need of the money. I do go to Church and live life the best I know how and love everyone as the Bible commands us to do. I hate racism and try to avoid people that are racist. The world is full of those type of people and so are some Church houses.
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Wow! Thankyou for that. I have written the same in many different ways in many different circumstances. I have family and friends who blindly follow the new religious craziness that has been spreading and it scares me. I have often said, ” I don’t know if I want to be part of the Christian world any more. It’s become unrecognizable to me and more of an embarrassment.” But reading this gives me hope that there is still a Christian life worthy to continue and I can rest in knowing that there are pastors calling a spade a spade. Thank you.
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Very, very well-said. So very true.
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Am amused by those that defend their beliefs with bible quotes from the so called “Old Testament” and ignore the “New Testament” and quotes from Christ himself as written when he brought a new covenant from his father.. Argue all you want but, according to the New Testament Christ hung out with the sinners, the poor, the ill, and healed the lepers. He judged no one and spread LOVE.. He might have had a bit of a problem in a temple at one time where his anger lead destruction of property, but otherwise he fed the poor, healed the sick, and blessed the children..
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I was in a small church. I had a very nice lady walk up to me and say that I had to vote Obama out of the White House because he was going to let the UN come in and dictate our lives and then the Browncoats were coming. I wasn’t sure if she meant Nazi people or a Firefly reference but I assumed the Nazi part. They sing Trump’s praises. Not all small churches have the mindset as printed here. I assume you are UCC which would explain a lot. Let’s look at the wedding issue: is a wedding cake a necessity? Not it is not. Will having flowers or photos at your wedding make you live longer? No. They are not needs. They all belong under contractual law. The couple asks the person to go into a contract with them. This means both parties agree with how the items will be used. The courts are refusing to acknowledge these negotiable contracts and instead are bending to the will of the lobbies that represent offended clients. Jesus has a lot to say about marriage and sin including : If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him. Saying no to any contract that would cause someone to sin IS the Christian thing to do. Sometimes no is in love.
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Was just wondering if you would mary a gay couple?
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Bunny trails aside…. When you [the author] say
“His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us.”
That is a saved by works doctrine and NO it is not what gets you to Heaven. If you are aligned with God’s will, then you will do those things, but that is NOT His sole concern.
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Jesus disagrees with you.
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This is a beautifullly written letter. It is exactly how I feel about mega churches and their phony leaders. Thank you for the inspiring words.
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Whoever believes that Peter is a pastor is delusional. He was the one tearing down & spewing hate. I think he might want to look up some other scriptures that he might learn somethingIt doesn’t sound like he knows anything about Romans 12:1-2. Or anything about what the Bible says about casting the first stone.It looks like he is pummeling people with stones & he seems to be very prideful in doing it. I will pray for you Peter. I hope you go deeper into the word & let Jesus teach you more. There seems to be you are possibly missing some important teaching that you may have overlooked.
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Creating or adding this kind of division within the church was one of the most important messages Christ taught is disciples. So maybe there is a reason your church is small. I don’t agree or understand everything Franklin does but that’s between him and God. And his name is Franklin not Frank as you call him with disrespect. I suggest you clean your side of the sidewalk before you cast any stones especially in public. I’m see you have forgotten the procedure the Bible gives us for addressing those believer we disagree with. Look it back up and try it out before you aire your dirty laundry. Like I said perhaps there is a very good reason (or reasons) you have a small church.
Wow you say so much to indicate that you actually shouldn’t be leading people at all.
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When Billy Graham was asked about regrets, Graham replied that he wished he had spent more time with his family, then added, “I also would have steered clear of politics. I’m grateful for the opportunities God gave me to minister to people in high places; people in power have spiritual and personal needs like everyone else, and often they have no one to talk to. But looking back I know I sometimes crossed the line, and I wouldn’t do that now.”
Frank could learn from him.
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I am not Christian however I was raised with that background. I was drawn to your defense of your church and the tongue whipping you gave the Rev Graham. It iseemed mightly peculiar to me when those Christians followed and still praise Trump Your words were more in line with what I remember Christianity to be. I salute you. Please do not reach out to me. It is not needed nor wanted. I only wanted to say kudos.
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I would love to know the demographics of those who agree with Graham. Let’s take a poll.
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I agree with Franklin Graham. I live in Canada, have two post secondary degrees. I’ve travelled extensively overseas and have spent most of my working career doing humanitarian work.
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twice-born… people who have the Spirit and actually know God and care about His opinions on matters, i presume those who agree with Peter are judgmental angry bitter Leftists who are Biblically ignorant about any passage that does not comport with their Leftist religious dogma.
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Rev. Graham has never written anything as bitter as this letter. You need to read objectively but I’m betting you are a Democrat hater.
Enough said.
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White educated female here. I am a proud supporter of President Trump, and I honor Franklin Graham for the work of the ministry that he does.
In the end, all that matters is not who we bake cakes for, or who we vote for…it’s who’s blood we are washed in! Only the blood of Jesus!
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Peter,
Please review Matthew 7:1-3 before you start using talking points from the liberal left. You should have stopped after your 3rd paragraph.
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This letter sounds very judgemental against Rev Franklin Graham. I also feel a sense of jealousy and questioning of Frank’s love for God and people. I feel a sense of pride and I am betterctham you attitude after reading this Peter. My heart goes out to you.
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One last thing rather than bashing Franklin Graham which is what is being done here. We need to be in earnest prayer for him because God cares for him just like he does all of us. This is what I do not understand that as Christians we are so quick to judge and bash people and put them down. That changes absolutely nothing. Makes everyone look stupid. It is prayer that will changes things.
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As others have said (or commented), much is to be lauded and appreciated in this post, most notably the opening paragraph in which small churches are given their due.
However, as someone who still pines for the Bernie days and as a member of a small, traditional church, a Christian since my youth in the late ’70s I did find some of the examples you, Peter, gave in defense of Small Churches to be somewhat unChristian themselves, and even a bit less Biblical than you might have imagined them to be.
Your mention of Coptic Christians or the members of Mother Emmanuel Church were apt in your attempt to understand Graham’s claims that American Christians are ‘under attack’, but I felt your counter-argument to Graham’s example–that of the bakers refusing to make a cake for a gay couple–rather weak and, indeed, rather unncecessarily snarky. Was there no other way to counter Graham’s point than by using sarcasm?
Or was your intention to subtly defend gay marriage? If so, then proceed: only do not do so under the guise of saying something else. Please say what you mean and do not hide behind quips and subtle anger by assuming Graham has not read the Bible nor heard of Peter or Paul. Please treat him as an equal: it will strengthen your point immeasurably.
When you note that Jesus’ “sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us” you must realize that that is not true, and that the belief in the finished work of Christ, that is, the resurrection, is indeed what grants eternal life, ie: Heaven. Those things you mention are good, good things, and should be the fruit of our Christian lives. But let’s face it: many, many athiests and non-believers do a great job of feeding the poor and clothing the naked but may not, due to their refusal to admit God as Lord of their lives, be entering eternity with Him.
It sounds a bit as though you are willing to allow anyone into Heaven except those who believe in God but practice their faith in ways you do not find flattering or acceptable. To be honest, Pete, I find a lot of what Franklin says to be cause for burying my face in my hands, but I offer him compassion rather than pedantry.
W emust do the Good Work of Christ and keep building the Kingdom. And, like Red Green always says, Remember, I’m pulling for you. We’re all in this together.
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If you’re a minister then I’m the Pope. You misquote, use fragments and ignore Scripture to make an invalid point. Scripture states several times that homosexuality is against God’s word. You can start at Sodom and Gomorra and work your way forward to Leviticus 19:21 and on and on and on.
You state at the last Judgement Jesus doesn’t ask…….what their sexual history or orientation is ….. I refer you to Revelation 20:11-15.
You state we must obey the laws of our country and yes when Christ was asked by the Pharisees if they should pay taxes to Caesar He told the render unto Caesar what is Caesar what is his and to God what is His.
When man’s law goes against God’s, God’s law prevails. Nazi Germany comes to mind.
Lastly, it’s preachers like you, if you are one, who are leading Christians astray by preaching the feel good gospel and we should accept everyone regardless of their sins. Again I direct you to Revelation that clearly lays out what’s in store for those who disobey God and His laws. Oh, and don’t give me that crap that no one understand Revelation. Only those who’s literary skills are limited and can’t understand allegory can’t understand it.
Oh and one more thing only cowards and terrorists don’t disclose there names or identity
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peter , you claim you don’t have a direct connection to God but you seem to KNOW what He will and will not be asking on judgement day. and if you would have asked yourself ” what would Jesus do ?” , do you honestly believe He would have answered ” write out a very sarcastic comment and put it out there for the world to see ” ? isn’t this a little like the pot calling the kettle black ? is this Christian behavior ?
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Small town church pastor has some good points but seem to me to be drowned out by his insecurity and chip on his “big L ” liberal shoulder.
Franklin on the other hand leaves himself open to “”correct speak” criticism but somewhere in his message he reveals that perhaps the cultural tail is wagging the dog when it comes to some proclaimers of Christianity today.
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Hey, Pete-
You should read the entire Bible. And truly, God’s opinion is really the only one that counts. We should all be thankful for that.
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Well written Peter, however the Bible also says that Christ died for ALL sinners. That pretty much includes everyone on this planet, with one exception………
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What a wonderful letter.
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FINALLY!!! A Pastor who KNOWS the same JESUS I DO!!!! Where are the rest of them???!!
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Poor Peter! I guess he believes that almighty God speaks through big government with its myriad of rules and regulations, its socialist deception that Obamacare actually provided quality healthcare to thousands of citizens who are too poor to argue with big government about it, its intolerance of anyone who dares question the wisdom of government “morality” dictating that homosexual or lesbian “marriage” must be treated with the same dignity and respect that traditional marriage commands after having developed from thousands of years of human existence and culture, its total rejection of the idea that government of the people, by the people and for the people is unsuited for the modern, big statist Washington-centric civilization envisioned by Peter and other leftists.
No, Beverly, I think Peter really needs to
Rethink the whole concept of the republic in which we live because he sounds like the perfect example of the false prophets spoken of in the New Testament. Perhaps his parishioners might consider inviting Reverend Graham to come and preach at their Church someday. Peter seems like he needs a Sunday off to reflect on his life and his relationship with God.
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I think that’s a pretty moderate reply.
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This is a great letter and expresses my feelings about religion today! Where is this little church?
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Does not our Lord and savior have in place a set of rules that as a disciple we should follow? Why yes. When a man knows good and does it not then he has an opposition towards that authority therefore creating sin. The disciples said to work out your own salvation thru fear and trembling. Therefore if one two three or four feel that baking a wedding cake is an abomination then it is
…. I would not bake it myself. The apostle Peter teaches to be holy but be ye separate from the world. Speak it Frank
🤗👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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Thank you Peter from a “believer in exile.” It’s good to hear this sort of thing from a christian pastor. Sometimes it seems like the only voice we are hear are those of people like Graham–and their hateful message. Jesus would not have been pleased with what that man teaches. You are doing the Lord’s work–keep it up!
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I Know “Frank”. I dont know is heart. He is devoted to telling all men, those that believe and expecially those that dont believe, about how Jesus died for all Mans sins.In fact i think its funny to wath “Frank” in an interview and listen to him turn any question into a reason why Jesus died for All Mens sins
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I’d like to send a Donation to this Little Church. Seems they are learning the True meaning of Christianity!
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I am a religious leader from a non-christian tradition. This is an amazing statement to make and I appreciate the know there are pastors among the christian faith who are holding up the doctrine of kindness that weaves its way through all the religious traditions that I have studied. Thank you Peter for your words of wisdom.
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I have a problem with ‘open’ letters… the so-called good pastor seems to have forgotten a crucial piece of scripture from Matt 7 where we are warned about judging others…Christ says “why do you focus on the speck in your brothers eye while u have a plank in your own”
I would suggest if our commenting pastor had an issue with Mr Graham he should take it to him personally as opposed to the attempt at shaming him through social media… for me, THAT would be the Christian thing to do…
End of the day, ‘perfection’ is unachievable for mankind…that includes me, Franklin Graham and (by his own judgemental comments) our friend Peter the pastor…not to mention every other blessed soul existing today…
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I believe that this letter is spot on. Pastor Peter wrote this letter so eloquently, This is the truth. Reading some of these letters it’s hard to believe that so many people call themselves Christians, and we all believe something different. Pastor Peter, thank you for writing this letter as it is explains how many of us actually feel. Thank you, again.
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Wow. I agree 110% with these words. Thank you for staying this without anger. May God bless you.
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I couldn’t have said it better myself. I had contemplated to writing a similar letter to Frank, but now I’m happy I didn’t. You, Peter, did it so much better than I could have ever done. I was — and still am — an admirer of Billy Graham. His son Frank is nothing but a disgrace for our great Christian tradition and the teachings of Jesus. I wonder if he is capable of understanding what you told him. I have serious doubts, because he surely doesn’t understand what’s written in the Bible. But one never knows. Let’s pray that the Holy Spirit will enlighten him!
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Beautifully said! Christians who refer to “others” as garbage or trash or unwanted must not have gotten the memo that this could be them! And homelessness is caused by not having a home. Poverty comes from being poor and kids Rob a grocery store and shoot the owner over $20. I’m sure the family of the victim would find the money; I’m sure the kid’s Mom would have saved bus money over the long run had she just made $20 more at her $9 an hour job. Everyone got what they deserved??
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God bless you forever and always 🙂
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Whew, sure am glad I don’t go to that “little” church. Our church started out w/40 to 50 ppl. and is now one of the biggest in Atl. Never has our Pastor gone on a rant like this! Might be why your church is still small. When the demons we are supposed to love, takes over your church and turns it into a mosque, remember to love them😨
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Good job, Peter. Regarding some of the responses to this, I am amazed by the persistence of the whole “God is compassionate, but He is also a God of WRATH! Don’t forget that!” type idea. WRONG. Christ came to REMOVE that wrath, you fools! BAKE the cake for the gay couple! You know why? It shows them love and then maybe that’ll help them find Christ. Maybe when they are at your bakery, you can preach John 3:16 to them and not even mention their sins to them. After all, no one mentioned my specific sins to me to get me to come to Christ. Heck, their gay relationship might have a lot less evil going on in it than your straight one! God alone will change people, if change needs to be made. It fascinates me that people want to always go back to the Old Testament and nitpick over a general “sin” versus an “abomination”. Either one is gonna send you to hell without Christ’s blood! Quit playing “judge” you damned legalistic “Christians”! Focus on “love one another” rather than “judge one another” which I KNOW was NOT something Christ said.
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Lots of hostility, jealousy, judgement and self-righteous rhetoric in that letter, Peter.
It’s difficult to believe it was written by a pastor.
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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Those are Jesus words and yet you are casting a stone at Rev Graham for his beliefs. My guess the book of Romans has escaped your reading. So maybe you should go back and read it again and then come back to criticize any other pastor.
By the way the church is being demonized jb the media dsily. Again. Maybe you strength not paying attention but I am millions of others followers see what’s happening across the works and right here in America. The ACLU looks to limit God, Jesus or anything in the birthday jn the public square. That is a problem and one we as Christian’s need to overcome to soread the good word.
God bless and I hope you remember to look at the board in your eye before pointing out the sliver in anyone else eye.
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Well said.. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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I fully agree with your letter Peggy Barnett. To me it looks like the enemy has now gotten Christians, coming against one another at a fearful rate. People get your eye’s off your selfs! Quit doing God judgements. Where has your wisdom n knowledge been coming from?. Doesn’t the Bible say that the beginning of knowledge is knowing God.
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From one small church pastor to another, thank you for speaking my thoughts.
Shalom, Pastor Jim
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Hey frank
God saids to LOVE everyone no matter their colour, religion, or sexual orientation . U know cooking a cake for same sex couple could have brought them a step closer to God in heaven . God would have made a cake and just loved them. I do not agree with same sex couples, but I hate the sin not the person. Read the bible again frank with the scales off ur eyes . Take the dust out ur eyes before u take the plank out of someone else’s eyes
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But didn’t Jesus also say “No man comes to the Father except through me”? What if we cared for the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, but did not accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour?
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I have supported some of Franklin’s ministries but have watched with dismay as he turned his back on them for fear of political reprisal. If he stands with God why fear wrath of men.
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It is so sad that post evolution we still have people believing in their imaginary friend. Do me a favour pray to your imaginary friend to bring an end to all suffering and when it happens perhaps there will be some truth in the nonsense you believe in. While we still have people believing god had himself killed to pay for the sins of mankind when it was he who set the terms in the first place there is not much hope that we will develop a world based on freedom from religion and mutual love for each other.
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I need a pastor like Peter!!
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for those judging Franklin ,you need to get on your knees and pray. the world is a mess. Hes a great preacher, aa man of God .the devil is busy and apparently with you so called christians who have downed Graham is part of that mess.if you cant say anything good dont say anything.
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Good letter. I agree entirely. I did not agree entirely with Rev Billy Graham but he was noble and his intentions were true. Some of his stances softened with wisdom and age as well. His son is not half the man of the father.
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Yes. Just yes.
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Dear Small Church Pastor”, I read your letter with great interest and agreement. I was wondering if you have addressed Trump’s lack of understanging as to why this country needs to protect the Separation of Church and State, which I consider one of the biggest threats to our democracy.
Thank you Diane
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He is having trouble though seperating what Jesus said for individuals to do from what he said about the government. Give to Ceasar the things that are Ceasars and to God the things that are God’s. What Jesus said about feed the hungry, visiting the sick and those that are in prison, and giving water to the thirsty he was saying to individuals and not governments. Jesus never did say to use somebody else’s money to do this. That,letter makes no sense.
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Peter, As I read your letter, there are many points in it which are certainly admirable. We all have our faults, we both share sarcasm except yours seems to be mixed with a good measure of condescending sarcasm. I have worked with many gays in the airline industry and have made friends with a few who I got to know as people. I recognize in your tone a little of that catty jealous and a helping of look at me mixed with another measure of disapproval of Franklin Graham. You might look a little harder for that moat in your own eye. Bottom line: If you’re teaching people to accept behavior that God says he hates and teach others to do likewise, then you’d better practice swimming with a millstone tied to your neck. Franklin Graham is doing just fine. I’m not baking your cake either, nor do I want to be forced by the hellbound and unrepentant to attempt to compel me to. Remember, God’s will, not ours, I’ll try to love you, we can both try to love God by doing His will. Put that stumbling block in your closet. Yours in Christ, pete.😇
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To the “Small Church Pastor” I would say get behind Satan! I’m guessing you would have voted Hillary in and supported the killing of babies full term. It’s time to take a stand and stop hiding in your small town community
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Although I am not a religious person and frequently engage in debates with fundamentalist Christians, I love this letter and it is why I like Christians who can see through the hypocritical, emotional rhetoric of self-serving preachers and have the courage to call them out publically.
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Reblogged this on The Benevolent Thou and commented:
Although I am not a religious person and frequently engage in debates with fundamentalist Christians, I love this letter and it is why I like Christians who can see through the hypocritical, emotional rhetoric of self-serving preachers and have the courage to call them out publically.
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The tone of this letter has too much sarcasm and “poor me Pastor Peter of a small church “. Letters like this don’t serve any purpose but to divide the followers of Christ. Did it give any glory to our Lord? Mmmm, no! Remember this: God has each of us planted where He can use our gifts and talents, which He gave us, to encourage and strengthen the Body of Christ AND to win souls for the Kingdom of God. Beyond this summary, there’s not enough room here to address each of Pastor Peter’s points to Frank… so I’ll leave it right here.
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Quite judgemental and snarky for a pastor…. sad.
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” I don’t understand why baking a cake for people whose conduct you find personally offensive is such a big deal”. Personally offensive? You mean a sin an abomination in the eyes of the Lord?
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That’s “True” christianity, not the hateful, racist preaching of Graham.
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The writer of this letter may have some true and genuine concerns about Mr. Franklin
Graham, but I’m sorry to see that his attitude and spirit in which he wrote was very disrespectful. The aposlte Peter was deserving of rebuke as well and one time Paul humbly confronted him. I do not see humility in this letter. Mr. Peter is giving the well-known preacher a lecture, but I’m afraid Mr. Peter is wrong about a few things as well. The baking of a cake for a homosexual wedding is not just food that we should give to an enemy, it is the participation of celebrating wickedness.
Mr. Peter, i would like to call you Pete, but since I do not know you, I will just soesk respectfully to you and call you Mr. Peter. My name is David, but you may call me Dave if you wish. I would like to know you feel about it if you had to bake a cake or conduct a wedding ceremony for a grown man and a 5 year old girl? How would you feel if you had to bring the dipping sauce to a canabalistic restaurant? How would you like to be forced to help others celebrate injustice?
Furthermore, Mr. Peter, you could be mistaken about persecution in America. The Republicans may be hypocrites, but they at least claim to stand for justice while the Democrats truly seek to persecute Christians and to jail them. If you study socialism/communism and see how deeply rooted it is in the Democratic party, you will find plenty of persecution and injustice on the brink of explosion. Christians are supposed to pray for the Lord to deliver us from evil and to work for the cause of Justice.
Mr. Graham may be mistaken about some things, but you are more mistaken. Mr. Graham has not suggested that Mr. Trump’s misbehavior was right, but him being President instead of Mrs. Clinton is a huge answer to prayer. Mr. Trump is making just decisions, unlike President Obama.
You are also wrong about God not holding us accountable for who we vote for. God will hold us accountable for every idle word we say and for every motive behind every action.
-David Bruce
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Amen. Thank you for writing this. My religion has been manipulated since before I was born. But in my lifetime, in the last 15 – 20 years, politics have taken the place of faith and Jesus in the Christian Right. It’s from the corrupting influence of money. Corporate America invented Christian America. I hope, soon, churches reject this corrupting influence money has on religion.
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Because this guy isn’t political at all. Oh….wait. Clearly this man is as much of a charleton as dear old Frank. What is your last name Peter? What is the name of your church. Typical political cherry picking of not only the Bible but of the social issues that he along with extremists on both sides (conservative and liberal) are to bbq lame for. There really is a middle ground if you are actually as tolerant as you claim.
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Jesus said if you follow me you will be persecuted. If you’ve never felt the tinge of persecution, maybe you’re not following Christ, but following our decadent culture.
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Be careful what you wish for.
What if instead of a gay couple, it had been someone from the Christian Identity Church that had asked them to bake a cake.
The Christian Identity Church states “all non-Europeans and Jews are to be exterminated or enslaved.”
So if the baker had refused to bake a cake for them (decorated with a swastica of course), how many would be against? It is a church and refusing would be discriminatory.
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You sound bitter, haughty and mean…. not very Christ-like.
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Peter, may I call you Pete?
Might be a little easier to embrace if you could lose a little of your snarky attitude.
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I know neither the author nor Reverend Graham, but two things jump out at me from this post: 1) the author uses a disrespectful tone that doesn’t serve him or his message well. I kept asking myself, “Is this guy really a pastor, leading his congregation by *this* example?” And 2) the author gets the sole concern of Jesus wrong. Yes, no doubt we are to feed and clothe. Of course. Shame on us if we don’t. But our main mission is from Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus Christ has *all* authority, *everywhere*. Because of that, what he says next is the ultimate: Go and make disciples.
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Wow, and some of you call yourselves Christians. “Let he without sin cast the first stone” ( including pastors).
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Just one thing….the fact that Franklin Graham started and heads Samaritan’s Purse, which goes all over the world serving and attending to those who are suffering due to natural disaster, famine, etc should show that he is bent toward serving the widow and the orphan, using his resources for good, not for evil. I went on a mission trip several years ago through Samaritan’s Purse to help victims of Hurricane Katrina and it was legit. Franklin Graham is legit.
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👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Touché!!!!! Thank you for saying what many of us have been wanting to say to Franklin Graham since 2014.
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Reblogged this on liebjabberings and commented:
When Christianity is getting a bad name from people who call themselves Christian – without bothering to follow Christ – we all live in a hateful, more dangerous world.
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This letter was so hostile I could not finish reading it. This Pastor could be right, but I can’t get past the mean spirited tone. If you want to say something and actually reach the person, do it with a humble heart. This kind of rant just ramps up all the ugliness with what appears to have the intent to just tell someone off.
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Interesting perspectives. We are called to minister where God puts us. Some are put in high visibility on a more global perspective, some on a more personal level. We are also called to sharpen each other, challenge each other to serve God in the place where we have been sent. Therefore, let God be the judge. Be the best Christian as you understand YOUR own role and let God take care of the rest.
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It’s just Leftism…This small town Pastor’s letter is just dripping in Biblical ignorance. It’s basically totally ignorant when it involves anything that disagrees with his Leftist religious dogma, and wow, SUDDENLY voila’, anything that can be cherry-picked and twisted into pushing his Leftist position, he knows it by heart and it’s a Biblical axiom (of course once the word “love” is deconstructed to mean “embracing what God hates” lol! .. oh whoops, there goes the first half of that command, haha!). Btw… I see nothing in Matthew 25 that tells us to embrace sin. Where is the live and “do not judge”ment for Trump? How can he say he “loves his Christian neighbors who are bakers, pizza makers, or photographers who have had their lives destroyed? Where in Romans 14 is he supposed to be judging their praxis in regards to homosexuality? He believes one way, they believe it’s a sin to be forced to celebrate the gay wedding… I agree with HIS approach, I DO cater gay weddings, but do not judge believers who believe this way. Peter needs to repent of his lax attitude toward sin, Paul in Romans 6:1-2 would probably swear at him for that, lol!
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Anytime a person writes such a letter AND fails to give his full name, his church name and location, it causes me to be suspect…. what are THEY hiding from??? Is “Peter” really a ‘pastor’ somewhere or just a liberal, probably Democrat, trying to disparage the conservative viewpoint. Until “Peter” lets this Christian know “who” he really is; the name of the small church in what town he is from; from what source he got his “pastorship”…… I consider this diatribe FAKE NEWS!! Anytime you’re ready “Peter”…. thousands of us are waiting…….for full disclosure!
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Well, as an exCatholic, I have found solace from a tiny congregation of Episcopalians, who sing all the verses of the songs, who don’t really talk about sin except as human weakness from which we all suffer, who love each other (there were 25 of us a few weeks ago!), who came (for 4 half days, 3 of them, to clean up our yard after my husband’s back surgery to keep him from messing up his back), who all care about each other, and who offer comfort an love and precious little judgment. I believe we follow the model Jesus set. I don’t believe in a personal god. I have a close personal relationship with god because I chose to, but She doesn’t have one with me, because she’s not the type. My relationship with god come from my relationship with people and it is mostly private, governed by my own sense of right and wrong, and we focus together to join in that spirit each week.
A priest, who recently died, had been my mentor for over 50 years. when I told him I was getting married in our little country church, he asked me why I would rather be in a church founded by the king of england that Jesus Christ. My answer was simply, Christ did not come to found a church. he was a good Jew and the idea of a church came later when white European men saw a way to consolidate power. Jesus came with a message. I believe he was a mystic, maybe a prophet, only god to the extent that we all are part of god. Jesus message was to love one another. the King of England had his own purposes, but the “rituals” of our service are almost identical to the Catholic, just not so self-serious, not so judgmental, tolerant of all who come for whatever reason they do. Everyone is welcome and you do not have to espouse any particular dogma. It fulfills me.
Until the religious world shifts to a tolerant place where all our views are tolerated, allowed because they are yours (you cannot dictate who people believe…you believe what you believe), I think organized religion serves as a disservice to our intimate relationship with a world permeated by god, whatever that is). Kate Roberts
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It is so very refreshing to read here that there are some “Christians” who have and do follow what it means to be actually “Christian”, So called “Christians” who use “political” issues and become bed-fellows with politicians are corrupted and in fact become “faux” Christian. Franklin Graham is a “faux” Christian.
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This is the mist profound answer to any question regarding the mega ministers sanctioning Trump and the reason why they are so wrong. But the one thing I don’t understand, is their reason for doing so.
This is the type of minister I enjoy serving under. To God he gives the glory, not man, and he follows God’s commandment s.
In the day of judgement, where will we stand? Many are choosing to walk with evil and follow the masses, some, a few, are choosing to walk with God.
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“Forgive us our sins as (in the same way) we forgive those who’ve sinned against us”… Trump publicly repented at the 2nd debate. If this spiritual principle is true, NO Leftists, Democrats, or super snooty Christians are forgiven. Explain to me this “Christianity” that judges but does not forgive? Explain to me where Matthew 25 says that we should embrace things that God says He hates? Explain to me how embracing what God hates is included with “Love the lord Your God…” (*Note this comes BEFORE “and love your neighbor as yourself”). I know when my children do not embrace what I tell them not to do I consider a dishonor, not an expression of “love”.
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To those who defend Graham, pray to God to release you from his charade.
I guess Rev. Pete was right. Graham really should sit down one day and read the book, for once.
Same sex relationships are “AN ABOMINATION”. It says that in the old testament, right?
If it is such an abomination how come Jesus never mentioned it?
Not only that but, in the old testament God also tells us HOW we are supposed to treat our slaves.
Yes, God advocates slavery.
Another thing: Did any of these high profile evangelists ever read MATTHEW 19:24?
There is no interpretation needed, Rich people better dress for warm weather when they die.
Rich people don’t ‘get in’. No exceptions.
Jesus said it.
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Dear Peter,can I call you Peter? It has an air of familiarity That grew up in the sixties,like your version of the gospel. So Dr. Graham shouldn’t speak out about religious persecution,but it’s ok for you to judge him,as you clearly do,based on some misunderstandings you have allowed to color your worldview. I suggest you continue to feed the poor,heal the sick ,bury the dead,and be more compassionate in judging others.
I wish that the scales might be lifted from you eyes,so you can see more clearly the institutional bias against Christians you deny. I wish you well sir,and hope you continue to walk the Path that God has given you,but hope also God opens your mind ,so that you might re-examine your own value system for error.
God bless you for the work you are doing,but remember we are all sinners,and try not to judge those who disagree with you so harshly.
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Well said.. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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This small town pastor is typical of a good works religion. Do good, feed the hunger, house the homeless, free health care to everyone. He really doesn’t know what it truly takes to be a Christian. John 3:16 (if he’s ever read the book of John) says the only way to heaven is unconditional surrender and repentance, accepting Jesus as your saviour. Rev Graham is referring to the fact that this country was founded on Christian Biblical principles. The Devil is on a fast pace plan to make america a pagan nation. Love the person hate the sin. That said you don’t invite it, condone it, propagate it, you stand against sin, expose sin, and you dont let it even get a toe hold. Once one little thing (sin) becomes normal it spreads like cancer.
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What a rude way to express your disagreement with Pastor Graham. I’m sure you could have done it in a much more pastoral way. So you are saying that all businesses must do business with all customers and have no freedom to deny service? Many people got into business before these ill-founded laws based on bad science were passed. Are they to change their family’s means of support because of political bullying? No one said they wouldn’t sell them food to satisfy their hunger… so that was pretty far-fetched. Do you believe Christian business owners are being targeted to test these laws or that this was just an unfortunate coincidence? How do you define fornication?????
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Well said.. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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I just can’t help but wonder since Peter has it all figured out, why does his congregation only have 30-40 in attendance? Shouldn’t it be bursting at the seams?
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Peter, I believe you spoke from your heart, but in a condescending spirit. I don’t believe Mr. Graham means to come off the way your perception of him seems. I truly believe as humans many of us are truly trying to be more like our Savior, Jesus Christ. Perfect, no and we never will be in this life. I pray we can be tolerant of others. Thank you for taking the time to respond to something so very important to you and others.
In Jesus Christ, <
Vicki
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I was in high school before I clued into the fact that there are two kinds of Christians. The first kind – who rarely seem to feel the need to TELL anyone they are a Christian – read and understand Christ’s message and do their best to walk the talk. The other kind seems to just want to belong to the club of the saved and thinks lip service is all you need to do to get “in,” so they go around loudly proclaiming their Christianity . . . but everything they say contradicts the actual words of Christ. In fact they are SO focused on Satan and sin and Hell that I sometimes wonder who it is they REALLY worship . . .
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I would love to have a pastor like this. We can not do this Us against Them anymore, it needs to just be a We. We are all created by the same God. We are all the children of God. We are all trying to acheive the same ultimate goal. This is not a competition. God loves us all the same. He is not going to love me more because I drive a Mercedes and you ride a skateboard. Wake up people.
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Excellent letter — very well said. I’m a mere Canadian, so we don’t have to listen to Donald Trump even though the TV news, on both sides of the border, contains almost nothing else. If a mountain falls down in the Rockies, or if Vancouver Island slips into the sea, perhaps there will be coverage equal to the coverage your ridiculous president gets every day. Meanwhile, we will trust God to keep the mountains and islands in their proper places.
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War on Christianity generated by ‘Fox news’ to instill fear and propaganda. Here is a thought. Do a news segment on the number of multi-million dollar super churches in North Texas cropping up and yet food banks asking for help monthly to restock reserves only minutes away and NEVER hear a word from ANY of these so called ‘christian’ churches.
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Scumbags of Christians. Ask yourself this question. What would Jesus have said or done when he heard that. We are either with Christ or not. How we worship, is our choice. Yet, his insistence on forgiveness, and love come to mind. And that is there for you too. Don’t please., get mad. Would Jesus have done that? Bless you.
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Sorry, folks, I am a bit agitated about this thread. Please, if you are of a mind to do so, have a read at Ephesians. Written by a man who was so worried about what the extended Church had become. All he asks is unity. Not, not ever division. We, all of us know that various churches, sects and denominations strive to push their particular agendas, but at root, if you really care, it is about what Jesus said and did. Not how we interpret it. Guess what – the original is in, well, the Bible.
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Jesus didn’t say, “I am the way, the culture and the life”. He said, “I am the way, the TRUTH and the life.” We have legalized a lot of things in our culture that God has not legalized.
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Amen. When they ask WWJD – this Pastor knows the answer. These mega churches knows WWOA do. What would our accountant do.
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I agree with your openness, your honesty. Albeit I am a spiritual in your terms God bless.
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So content with yourself that you are able to be so bold about instructing “Frank”. He is not speaking to gain favoritism from people but obedient to God’s call in this present age. Funny how it costs you nothing to be so smitten with yourself in an open letter sure to gain a lot of support from many comfortable Christians, offended by the current move if God.
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Well said.. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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Peter since you are so pious and obviously have cast the first stone I would venture to guess that 1 you are gay(which is okay by me be, be what you think our Lord wants you to be) 2 You have quoted the Bible several times cherry picking what you like leaving out Sodom and Gomorrah and many other verses 3 Jesus never categorized persecution sin is sin in any form. I’ll agree with you about judging people I leave that to Jesus. But to attack Rev. Graham in public shows you want recognition for something I just don’t think you wanted to be seen as you are a bully? Oh and God Bless You!
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If your enemy is hungry give them something to eat. Jesus ate and drank with “sinners”. Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s, and to God what is God’s. The greatest among you shall be the servant of all.
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He is (Frank) no where near the greatness of his Father… I am sure deep down his Father is ashamed of his actions… The pastor of this small church is right on and a excellent written Letter… I never like Frank when he took over from his Father, he might as well join and work for the nut case that supports the KKK, La. Mr KKK Duke.
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When Franklin Graham said that GOD wasn’t in the WHITEHOUSE, I told him I thought he was still there, that he never left. I believe that is with us always, no matter where we are.
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I can appreciate the dis ease some are feeling towards this letter. I studied the Bible in a Catholic college where those I studied with were preparing to be priests. So my level of understanding of the Bible along with the experiences I had with Catholic priests and nuns would contradict the negative interpretations of the letter. I really wish those writers well and hope they can find comfort and peace in the real Christianity, which also requires effort to provide service without judgement. As it says in the Bible, judge not less ye be the first to be judged.
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I give this man credit for confronting Frank and letting him know how he feels, BUT, he, as a pastor, one who leads many (well, hopefully he does) to Christ, he forgot that Jesus came to save us and in doing so, we are forgiven of our PAST and renewed.
Trump is a new believer and he is going through what all new converts go through…refining.
This pastor is pretty much doing the same thing he says Frank is doing…judging.
I agree with a lot of what he says and I, too, have written to Frank stating my concerns and disagreements with many of the things he says. But to be honest, this pastor just proved that we all fall short of Glory of God. Since he is doing Gods work, then he knows that where he is called is where God appointed him. And just maybe, he wasn’t listening and didn’t hear the voice of God directing him. I don’t know that answer. I do know that we, believers in Christ Jesus, are imperfect and fall short. That doesn’t mean that we can’t repent and start a new.
I’m glad that he wrote Frank and questioned his thinking, his motives, his faith. Truth is, the day we are faced to face with Jesus, the only thing we pray that He will say to us that believed and followed Him is:
“Well done, my good and faithful servant.” God bless you all❤️🙏😇
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Your letter is smug and self-absorbed, with the requisite sprinkling of “real Christians embrace left-wing politics” thrown in for good measure.
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well, Franklin Graham is jut like his father, and all the other so-called Christians who DO NOT follow what JESUS told them to do regarding caring for and loving your neighbor as yourself. If GOD put Trump in office he surely didn’t discuss it with Franklin. Some of these boys need to get a grip. Ooops, they have a grip, only it’s on the collection plate. How does Franklin feed his family? By being a lap dog for the rich. Sorry!
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God will look at you and whether you have been washed in the blood of Jesus not your deeds! Yes as Christians we are commanded to feed the hungry, etc., but anyone can do that and not be a Christian !
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AMEN!! I wish I could say it as clearly as Pastor Peter. Thank you for putting all my thoughts into a coherent, rational, and scriptural sound rebuttal of hypocrisy.
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Well said!
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I am not a Christian. That doesn’t mean that I haven’t looked into the teachings of Jesus, however. I have to say, the view of Christ that Peter (above) has is the Christ that I’ve read about. Intolerance (as outlined above) would be intolerable to the Christ I’ve read about. I personally know many people who have turned away from Christianity because of the hate and intolerance spewed by people like Frank.
The Christ I’ve read about would be summed up with one word, love. The Christianity that Frank describes would be summed up in one word, hate.
Thank you, Peter, for being a voice in the wilderness for your religion. I can only hope that you and others like you will be able to join your voices into a chorus that will overwhelm the money and power of people like Frank.
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Very well said!
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Thank you Pastor Peter, for loving God the way you do!! You have helped restore my hopes and dreams of having our America back the way God wants it to be!!!!! God BLESS YOU, Peter!!!!
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I am not going to jump upon either band wagon. As I see and read this squabble, all I see is spiritual unrest.
First off Peter declares he is a small town pastor of a small church. Hold the phone…… the christian people are the church not the building that seats 30 people. Therefore we are the bride of Christ jointly and proudly.
Another thing I see is judgementalism as to what convictions christians have as opposed to their personal calling into service of the Lord. If each person has or is working upon their relationship with Christ….who are we to judge anyone? We will all face the true judgement of God one day….this is the only judgement I would ever be concerned with ever! We really need to stop huffing and puffing at other Christians and work on our own salvation, testimony, legacy, and what have we ever done for the sake of Christ, the upbuilding of heaven, are we a worthy heir of heaven. Does our life reflect Christ, the cross, the Love, the forgiveness, and does the life we lead portray forgiveness, humility, above all the Love of Christ, and the mercy he has offered for freely.
Seems we get sidetracked with crazy issues and forget the real mission – the great comission….not a suggestion but an order.. go you therefore into all the world. It does not say think about it…it says GO.
THANKS FOR ALLOWING MY 2 CENTS! Just a small town pastor here… to a huge congregation….of where 2 or 3 gather in Christ’s name… just saying.
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such a beautiful letter.
thank you!
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You obviously feel a need to belittle Franklin Graham by taking the liberty to address him as Frank. That is your feeble attempt to bring him down to a level that you feel more comfortable with. Have you heard of Franklin’s organization “Samaritan’s Purse?” It has done more to bring relief to the sick, dying, hungry, and homeless than any government agency will ever accomplish. It truly serves as the hands and feet of Christ. And, yes, it does take money to operate. And, who in this country has done more to bring the gospel message of Jesus Christ than Franklin and Billy Graham?
You make several references to the current President of the United States. Why must we continue to perpetuate this hatred of Trump into all areas of our lives~including the church. If Franklin Graham supports him, that is his business. And if Franklin Graham thinks it is wrong to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage, that is also his business. Just because you disagree, you feel the need to lecture Graham on what is in the Bible and how it should be interpreted.
If you truly wish for Franklin to be your brother in Christ, you should stop with the put-downs and sarcasm and try to find some common ground.
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Well said Sandra.. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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And before you cast judgement you should know of not what you see and hear until you get the complete story instead of just getting just a small Speck of info and think you can cast the first stone: get the whole story before you go and make your own
To throw judgement when you got your own skeletons in your closet and to be so judge mental when your no better than I
So I say Good Day Sir Good Day
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He wants the bakers to follow the law, yet wants the illegals to get a free pass and Congo is to break the laws? Btw, we are to love our enemy, but not to lie down with them. We are to help the person, but not enable their wrongdoing. Sounds like this guy picks and chooses to suit his agenda.
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Well said Sharon. Thanks for standing up for the Truth!
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Thank you, Pastor Peter! I am a Catholic and was taught the same messages as you preach. I am horrified when I hear of people in parishes giving fake money or withholding money from their parish collection plates because they preach the same messages you presented here. They are trying to exert their right wing power over the word of God. They are extorting their pastors to preach “Frank’s” message. We must cling to God’s word. God bless you!
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Wonderful, and thank you. It is the hate mongering that has made “Christian” a loaded word for me. It seems very few self-styled Christians aspire to Christ-like behaviour. They harken back to the old testament God to prop up the nonsense. Yet Christ came to bring a new way, the “Good News.” The selectivity of some is laughable. They ignore Christ’s teaching about rich men and the eye of the needle, and focus on some statement in the Old Testament about gays. Christ did not have time for such judgement. He purposefully went out of his way to work with the marginalized, like the sick, poor, and the despised tax collector. “Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar’s and to God that which I’d God’s” – completely ignored! “Let he who is perfect cast the first stone” – forget about that one!
The tactics of Graham and his ilk are to: Make pepole feel threatened and therefor easier to control. Cultivate anger. Tell them whom to vote for, and make it seem that they are un-Christian if they disagree. I have immense respect for true Christains. It is not easy to be one. I only know a few. Meanwhile, I try to use Jesus’ teachings as a moral compass, imperfectly, but as best as I can.
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This is brilliant! You have articulated the disconnect between the Christian Right and those who seek to simply do our best to follow the teaching of Christ every day!
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As a young child I accompanied my grandparents to see Billy Graham preach. The event was held in a school gym which to me seemed an unbelievably large venue. Mind you, I was at most six, and this was more than six decades ago.
I can’t tell you what he said or even how he looked. My enduring memory of what ended up being an event lasting several hours was the “offering”. The offering was collected into large buckets, buckets that were passed around that jam-packed gymnasium over and over until they would not hold another wrinkled, dirty dollar bill. A dollar bill that would have covered school lunches for the herd of children common back then plus, quite possibly, a few items not grown on family farms in Appalachia.
More money than I realized existed at that point in my life. More money than I could imagine being necessary to “spread the word of God”.
I still can’t.
I cannot imagine a God who condones making people go hungry, homeless, or denied medical care to “spread the good word”.
I cannot imagine a preacher who must have a private jet because a conversation with God cannot happen on a commercial airliner.
I cannot imagine a minister who must be supplied with a level of luxury….be it clothing, a limo and driver, one or more luxurious homes, all “owned ” by the church, or other “amenities”….before he is “moved” to spread God’s word.
For that matter, it’s pretty presumptuous to claim that you know the will of a being who is so powerful that faith and belief can be commanded without physical presence.
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“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” “…you will know them by their fruits.” This piece is rude and disrespectful, appearing to start friendly but igniting malice and discord – better said by Timothy about those avoiding truth and works of Jesus Christ, he who has “unhealthy interest in controversies” and disputes about words “is conceited and understands nothing” “…suppose that godliness is a way of making a profit.”
Perhaps a simple “thanks for recognizing our small community” would have been appropriate and a private letter if the you really desired to understand. Or, did you just want personal gain for your political agenda. “But reject foolish and ignorant controversies, because you know they breed infighting.”
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Exactly! Well said Heather. Thanks for standing up for the Truth.
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Okay, Pastor, let’s talk about your haughty claim about Matthew 25… Trump has given 4 million to health care, and over 1 million specifically to children… how much have you given?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/02/09/where-did-trumps-foundation-donate-its-money-irs-documents-reveal-surprising-answers/#397eb5ee7b52
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Also, Pastor, tell me now how Franklin Graham has turned a deaf ear to the worldwide persecution of Christians?? He has, in fact…
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/05/07/christian-persecution-world-egypt-iraq-mexico-column/101279550/
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Thank you Peter Very well said It seems Frank has become political rather than Christian Love one another!
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I find it interesting that the author hides in anonymity. No name. No church name. No town or state. Peter may not even be a pastor. Looking at the world today, perhaps Graham is giving a warning of things to come. It obvious his ministry meets the needs of millions of people around the world. And yes, we are or were all rebels. Only by the grace of God are we forgiven and saved by the blood of Jesus.
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This pastor lives to use the Bible to back
up his beliefs. Unfortunately he doesn’t use
The whole Bible. He just picks and uses
what suits his beliefs.
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God loves all of us equally and without prejudice last time I checked. Some people need to remember who is really in charge of us all, not just the few.
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Peter,
It isn’t to say that Decision America and Franklin’s message is beyond critique or criticism but this article was unhelpful.
First, the snarky, condescending way in which it was written was not winsome but triggering. He goes by Franklin. So we’re not off to a good start. But I guess we ignorant, gun totin’, Fundamentalist, Bible believing Southerners should be thankful you humbling yourself to speak slow and nice-like so we can understand.
Second, you don’t even try to understand the concern of Christians about the cultural shift towards an anti-Biblical view of marriage – where sex has nothing to do with marriage, having children, and (now) biology. You are completely dismissive.
Of course the florist/Gay wedding issue isn’t the same category as the persecution of Coptic Christians, the slaying of church folks in South Carolina, or the interruptions of a church service by condom throwing Gays.
But these issues such as the florist is a flash point of a deeply divided view of God as Creator whose work is to be respected vs. the sovereignty of personal autonomy and choice of secularism. It is not about whether a business should sell to Gay people; the florist sold flowers to her Gay friend for years. It was only when he set up this line asking her to make a creative expression, and thus participate in his wedding, that she could not cross for conscious reasons. To her, changing the word-definition of marriage to embrace whatever is trendy in culture does not change the reality of what marriage is.
So the question now becomes whether anyone who refuses to participate in a holy ceremony which affronts their cherished long-term beliefs when asked should expect to have their business and livelihood decimated? Sounds kind of iron-curtainish to me.
Yes, why can’t we all just get along you ask? Shouldn’t we all just play by the rules? Oh, wait. I thought you were talking about Madalyn Murray O’hare who forced prayer out of school because she didn’t want her son participating in something that he (really she) didn’t believe. I guess religious conscious only works one way for progressives; not for dumb Fundamentalist hicks like Frank and me.
I guess the best thing about the article is that you now have a brand new condescending polysyllabic word to to add to your collection to call folks who don’t buy into your narratives or question the effectiveness of your programs – paranoid. You can add this to legalist, irresponsible, racist, White Privilege, homophobic, ignorant, xenophobic, and sexist.
David
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Peter, you say you read the Bible well read these verses: 1timothy c1 v 8-11, romans c1v18-32, Jude v7 these will tell you homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God . You can’t get into heaven living this life style . We as Christians should not condone this lifestyle or we become part of it. You as a preacher should know this we need to stand against this not promote it.
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Well said!
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Are you born again Peter?
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When this guy has done a “small” fraction of what Mr. Graham has done, I might feel he is relevant. What I see here is a huge amount of green-eyed jealousy trying to minimize Graham. Actually, Peter shows quite a bit of immaturity in his little rant. I quite doubt Mr. Graham meant anything negative in his reference to small community churches, but that every congregation coming together can make huge impacts.
This seems to be quite childish on Peter’s part, even patronizing “Frank”… patronizing is a symptom of one’s own irrelevance and low self esteem.
Peter, back away from the denial fire, put up your sword, grow up, and do your best in your arena.
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Aaaaaand Peter, since I’ve demonstrated Franklin Graham DOES talk a lot about global persecution of Christians, AND I’ve demonstrated Trump gives $5 Million to the charitable categories included in Matthew 25, let’s zoom out and see which political bent ACUALLY backs up their obedience to Matthew 25 more??? *btw, this is also delineated in Forbes, The Financial Times, and The LA Times…
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If you truly think that Christians are not being harassed threatened sued or even tortured here in America then you have not done your research. Check out some of the prayer requests that come in on the Christian law association website and you will be appalled. Maybe not the same types of things that other countries are going through (check out the voice of the martyrs website) but discrimination none the less. We either wake up now or we end up like some of these other ‘non-Christian’ Nations
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Well said Liz. Thank you for standing up for the truth.
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WELL SAID – for my lifetime I’ve admired his Dad, but after selling of souls for an election I will NEVER donate or give to another Graham entity.
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Pastor Peter: I fully agree with the underlying premise I read in your letter; however, I must take exception to some of your determinations. Samaritan’s Purse, the Franklin Graham ministry, does do a great job in trying to meet the needs of the “needy” people as cited in your references. Consider that maintaining a Biblical standard of holiness and refusing to endorse deliberate sin by socially supporting it does not make you a “bad” Christian, nor does a “holier than thou” attitude make you a “good” Christian. I will NOT label my brothers or sisters as I do not know their hearts and so have NO basis for judgment. Besides, it is God’s privilege, alone, to judge! Yes, our current President is hardly an example of morality, especially Christian morality, as can be seen in his lifestyle (conduct); however, as God installs human leadership and uses it to achieve His purposes, I will let him do his “Caesar thing”. The “Divine Right of Kings” was a poor attempt by the church to control civil government in the past. It failed then and any attempts by the church to control government today will also fail. Our mission remains to demonstrate the love of God toward sinful people and display, in concrete fashion, His Grace and Mercy.
Just a reminder: The early church suffered great martyrdom because it would NOT accept the anti-godly behaviors of government and broke its laws!!
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Thank you, Peter, for your honest appraisal of the role of the Body of Christ.;;; Rev. David Hobson, Elder, Full Connection, WNC Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church
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Extremely important but I fear that those who might benefit from your well-reasoned & appropriate wake-up communication — very moving, meaningful, motivating — won’t read it & “hear.”
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He has given you all the tools , a knife can cut no matter what hand wheels it. Solution : put down the knife and no one will feel the pain.
That’s the start to forword thinking . That’s the word, that’s the truth . Why complicate something that so simple to fix.
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I would call this an example of Christian ‘originalism’. And that’s a good thing.
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I knew where this was going in the first sentence. “Can I call your Frank” Very high school passive aggressive. Sort of like your ~~yawn~~ open letter. Pete..Can I call you Pete? There’s a reason you have a congregation of 30 and no one has ever heard of you.
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Thank you, Peter. To claim “religious persecution” for this discriminatory behavior is appalling. And for The Prodigal Son to condone and support those who practice it openly is even more appalling. Let him who is without sin…Geezus, Frank, you need a new translation of your Bible cuz the one you’re using …SUCKS! I’m sort of sorry you became a pastor, because you’re making more work for the rest of us. Pastor Erin in CA.
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It was with sincere dismay I read your missive to our Christian brother Franklin Graham. While the majority of those who commented agree with you, thereby no doubt validating your words, I simply cannot. I hope you will read this and perhaps consider my opinion,
First as to the bakers/lawbreakers, we know laws change over time, and not that long ago, at least for this old woman, laws against sodomy, laws that denied voting rights or even the necessary act of bathroom privileges to our black brothers and sisters were carried out. Should we not reply in civil disobedience to such laws? Could one wonder the outcome had these bakers refused to bake something for the KKK or NAMBLA? Now these citizens have lost their livelihood, to my mind that is indeed a form of persecution.
Your letter as stated was from one pastor to another; but that wasn’t truly accurate was it? You chose a public forum to chastise another Christian. According to scripture, shouldn’t that have been done in private first? Matthew 18:15 “If a brother sins, go and show him his fault in private”.Now, maybe you did, and if so I apologize.Further by asking if Rev Graham “knew Peter” for example was, I am sure you intended, sarcastic. Galatians 6:1 says, “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness: each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.”
Your words, in my opinion were derisive at most and unkind at least. As the Body and Bride of Christ, we are to set an example of discipline with love, and your letter in no way does that. Upon reading other comments, I feel you are encouraging others to ignore scripture. A quote we all know states, “A house divided will fall.” I would encourage you to have a private discussion with Rev Graham, so that the Church will stay strong.
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Thankfully the atonement already happened and was documented before our day. If not, I am afraid folks like Frank would have tried to leverage themselves around that as well.
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sin is sin. There are several things that God said are an abomination to him. Does anyone ask everyone if they are guilty of one of them before baking a cake for their wedding? I think not.
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Actually His concern at that point is whether you are one of His children or did you reject Him and the gospel of Jesus Christ. Just a little off.
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So Peter, the minister of the small church, how many in your congregation are divorced and remarried? OH MY! There’s that word from years ago, but it’s also in the Bible and you failed to mention this much more rampant sin, didn’t you? Surely you don’t have such people in your pews, do you? Which God do they serve? Be mighty careful with the stones you throw–you might break something. And has your congregation done an outreach on those in your town that “would bake a cake for a same sex couple?” Love one another. That’s in that same book too. The church is a building with believers; the mission field starts after you leave the parking lot. Just sayin’.
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Much respect from a Pagan minister, for someone who talks their walk and actually lives by their beliefs, not just claims a belief for show and to manipulate others.
May we each honor that which we accept to as God/the creator/ Goddess or whatever aspect of that which is multifaceted both within ourselves as well as outside ourselves in a way that we can have a relationship which supports each other, those with similar views or those that we may not agree with.
Bright blessings, Tom
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When you see a TV preacher come on your TV screen, count how many seconds pass before the 800 number comes up. “Don’t make me holler, don’t make me shout! Reach in them pockets and turn ’em inside out!!!”
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Thank you Peter. God bless. Amen. Peace be with you
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I am not religious, any sort of religious, never have been, but I do appreciate a man who has studied the guiding tome of his faith and tries to follow it based on what it says and not what someone who has spent less time studying it decided it says.
Just remember having lots of followers and converts to your cause does not make you a good person, a righteous person, a just person, or even psychologically stable. It does mean that you are charismatic in some way to some people and we all know where that can lead.
If you are going to be a Christian and follow that philosophy, read your book yourself like the writer of the essay has. You will find that it probably doesn’t say what you think it does.
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Why did you Not Sign your Real Full Name? Or the Area of Your Small church? You were condescending in your tone to Reverend Franklin and to Love Our Brothers and Sisters in Christ and Those who Persecute us does not mean we Bake them a cake, provide money for an Abortion or a Drink to an alcoholic!
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Matthew 23:28 and more importantly Matthew 23:15
P.S. Rev Peter Olsen is the author. This is his blog. Check the “About Us” link above.
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Thanks Peter I couldn’t have said it any better. Your Christianity is what we practice at our poor little church too.
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This is a beautifully stated letter. It is absolutely point on. Franklin Graham represents hate, condemnation, fear. Judging Gods children, wanting us to turn out backs on thre sick, homeless. Divorced. The hate, condemnation of the LGBT Community. The denial, discrimination in refusing to bake a cake for a same sex couple. He has no clue the meaning of what is meant in the bible. To love feed the poor, hungary. To halp THE LESSER OF YOUR BROTHER. BILLY WAS great man, Godly man. Not a fake hateful judgmental bitter man. He should not be a preacher. He is a disgrace to Billy Grahm. The posts, comments Franklin makes are things I would ecpect from Satan. Franklin is not preaching Gods word, following the Bible
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Amen
This is the best thing I have read in forever!! It is also true. Fundemtal Christianity is a bunch of judmental, hypocritical, and selfish, self centered people who substitute their beliefs as the truth and presume not only to play God, but arrogantly believe they are God!!! And as far as having a racist, sexist, arrogant jerk like Trump as their hero, well that really says it all
God is love. God is compassion. God is acceptance. God is tolerance and understanding. God is the creator and lover of all!
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Franklin suffers at such a high level that he can’t see the real world and has lost his Bible to gravity. Life is much different in Harley-Davidson heaven. Even toothpicks are shaped like crosses to keep them from poking your sacred gums in an act of self-persecution.
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Peter, I will keep you in my prayers. You are obviously filled with hate and jealousy toward Rev Graham. I’ll pray for a more forgiving heart for you.
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Amen, thank you so much for saying what so many Christians want to say to the politically correct Christian right. I am a Christian who also believes that Donald Trump and Franklin Graham don’t represent what the Bible says and exemplifies through the teachings of Jesus. Thank you for sticking up for true Christian values.
Jay Townsend.
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Good to hear again.
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Not a real fan of Franklin but loved his father. Franklin has a for profit ministry, contrary to his thinking. Purchase a new theatre in Blowing Rock, NC and employees hundreds at the “offices”.
Plenty of employees who seem to have plenty of time off. I do like our President for different reasons and believe churches should stay out of the political arena.
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I love Billy Graham, but evidently, he wasn’t home enough to teach his son about Jesus. This article is right on, and the reason so many Boomers-and others-have fled the church. Wonderfully written.
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This is awesome I am so sick of these so called Christians spreading hate and discontent discrimination and separation without an ounce of the WORD in them. GOD will judge and they will be treated accordingly.
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I totally disagree with this letter. Homosexuals have an issue with their lifestyles being labelled as sin. The bible references homosexuality as sin, both in the old and new testaments, there is no way around it. Those who adhere to biblical truths are being labelled as homophobic, haters, judgemental bigots and even worse. Why, because we believe the Gospel? am a Christian and I hate no one. There are people who consider themselves my enemies and treat me as such, I don’t even hate them. If you want someone to blame for calling homosexuality what it is, SIN, then blame God. For those Christians who are rapidly becoming confused about what their role is, be careful, because the bible says in the last days there shall be a great falling away… Jesus warned about the blind leading the blind and whoa is to them who lead His sheep astray. Yes, Jesus supt with sinners, had dealings with Samaritans, kept company with prostitutes and thieves, etc etc… But guess what? Not one did He mislead by putting a stamp of approval on their sins. He made them whole and said go and sin no more. The only person in the bible whose life was touched by Jesus who left with a sad countenance and undelivered, was the rich young ruler. Why, because he did not want to give up what he valued the most. Homosexuals belong in the church. To be loved, led by example, taught and delivered. That demonic force that has them in bondage is not leaving easily. Yes, with love and kindness have we draw them… Yes, they are to come as they are… But the entire reason that a Christian is born again is to be a witness and help others overcome SIN as they have and must continue to do on a daily basis. Regardless to what the law says, God’s children are to stand on His Word. If someone did not want to bake my cake for whatsoever reason, I would take my business elsewhere. That family lost their business because of their grounded belief in God’s Word, not because they broke the law. Homosexuality is a demonic stronghold. That’s why victimized children usually end up gay, that’s why a bible called the Queen James Version was written that only omits EIGHT verses about homosexuality and that’s why MANY Christians are becoming luke warm by adapting an it’s okay attitude not only about homosexuality but about sin in general. And yes, those Christians that stand ARE being persecuted. Maybe not by firey furnace, lion’s den or stoning, but by among other things, be targeted as judgemental, hating bigots just because WE believe God’s Word and won’t give sin a conforming stamp of approval. If not wanting to turn from your sins results in you becoming and atheist, die unsaved, this is nothing compared to sins wages. Homosexuals don’t want our love, they want our approval and acceptance, they want total solidarity where acceptance of their choices are concerned. Ironically, even if every living Christian on earth padded their it’s okay to be LGBT cushion, it wouldn’t change one thing about what God said about it and the outcome of non-repentance.
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While I agree with you on some points, if you didn’t come off as a smarmy little holier than thou, (despite your little asides to show humility), your argument would carry weight. Why not work towards unity, instead of sowing disunity in the Church. BTW that’s in the Bible too, and I’m sure “Frank” has read it.
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Thank you for your powerful words. I’ll be honest; people who identify as “Christian” terrify me, for all the reasons you mention about this Reverend. I wish more Christians were like you, who would endeavor to truly follow the words of Jesus and not be such hateful white supremacist bigots, homophobes, and misogynists.
Thank you for the hope your words give me that there are real Christians out there, and that they view the actions of the mega-churches with fear and loathing just like those of us who don’t identify as Christian do. I hope more of your brethren stand up and drown out these people because right now, they’re making Christians look horrible.
So truly, thank you. I appreciate your words.
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Thank you thank you thank you for this is THE TRUTH!!!!!!
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I so agree with this. I have always thought Billy Graham was a true man of God. His son is absolutely destroying his fathers legacy. We do not have to love the sin but we must love each other !!
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It’s unfortunate but the Christian religion doesn’t accommodate everyone. Reverend Franklin is right about us being under attack. We need to stand up. Same-sex and LGBT and other sins don’t fit in Christianity. We confess or sins and change. We don’t just continue to live with them. Matthew 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. There is no diversity.
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If others read some of these comments would they see something in us that they would want to be like? Pray for Mr Graham if you feel he is off. We are not all knowing but loving one another and striving to do that might be the very thing that draws others to Jesus. We get freedom of religion one day that will be gone. Judging isn’t a pretty thing on a christain and neither is pride We only have each other as the last days come in to play. We can disagree if are heart doesn’t pick up offensives as we disagree. As the song says. THEY WILL KNOW US BY ARE LOVE. AS HE HAS LOVED US
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Horrible misuse of Scripture.
1 Pet 2:20. If a Christian suffers the consequences of *sinning*, it is not a credit to him. Secular laws can be unjust, and it can be morally obligatory to break them, in which case a Christian who suffers for breaking the law is “doing right and suffering for it” and “has God’s approval.”
Rom 12:20. Sure, if a homosexual comes to the tray line at a soup kitchen or gets meals on wheels or asks for change, feed him just like you would anyone else. Being required to bake a cake for a gay wedding is a completely different situation because one is being required (by someone who in all probability is not “hungry”) to create a symbol which celebrates something “dishonorable,” “unnatural,” “shameless” (Rom 1:26-27), “an abomination” (Lev 18:22) which excludes people from the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9).
Matt 25: That isn’t the only place where the Bible talks about the criteria for going to heaven. Cf. 1 Cor 6:9; Rev 21:27. Jesus was indeed concerned about sexual immorality and divorce (Matt 15:19; 19:9).
Besides that the whole piece is insupportably smug (cf. Luke 18:9).
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Well said. This blog site seems full of people who know 1 or 2 verses of Scripture which they take out of context to beat true Christians over the head with. God bless you brother.
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Thank you, Mr. Douglass, for expressing my thoughts much better than I ever could. Also, as mentioned in other comments, persecution and discrimination against Christian values and beliefs are not limited to murder. And President Trump? Certainly not the Christian “example” I would prefer as our nation’s leader (but then, neither was the alternative choice). Thankfully he chose a godly man as his Vice President. Our country’s history is full of leaders whose lives did not reflect the God-fearing ethics Christians prefer. My prayer is that America will see amazing spiritual growth — if not BECAUSE of President Trump’s leadership, then IN SPITE OF IT.
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Peter,
When you report back to George Soros please tell him you failed. Tell him no one is interested in your sarcasm and snark. Tell him you will return the money he wasted when he rented you.
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It always amazes me as people who call themselves “Christian” completely fail to jack hammer the rafter out of their own eyes. They do not comprehensively read the scripture at 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 where it lumps murderers, thieves, heterosexuals that have sex before marriage and/or cheat on their spouses, right along side of homosexuals. Some “Christian” churches disfellowship people for having sex outside of marriage along with those that cannot abstain from having same sex sexual relations. Everyone in their congregation shuns them until the pastor tells everyone they are saved. However, so many “Christian” churches do not do that because they would maybe have a handful of followers giving 10% of their income. It is all about the money that the scripture in Corinthians is largely ignored by heterosexual holy roller pastors and the false belief among the following that only the heterosexuals have sinners carte blanche in heaven. We ALL fall short of the glory of God. Can’t we all just grow up and all get along? After all, did not Christ tell us to love our neighbors and our enemies?
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Thank you Peter. You could be speaking of my own 160 year old church, 30-40 on a Sunday, feeding the poor and caring for our neighbors. Except, our minister/priest/pastor is a woman.
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Pastor Peter sounds offended by the servant of God who almost single-handedly (with his team of supporters) went to every state to awaken Christians to vote the Bible. I know because I attended 2 of his well presented Awakenings with many fine speakers, preachers from all across the USA. The solidarity of the cause was effective because 55 million Christians voted this time that had not voted in 2008. That was a successful outcome for our USA. God is still blessing the USA! If Pastor Peter would continue to focus on his 30 to 40 people in his congregation, (which may be the reason he has not experienced being under attack as he describes in his letter; at this point if he was, he might resign like many others who do) that would increase his ability to new ideas brought to him by the Living Word. I will pray for Pastor Peter to grow in the Word & his outlook will be different from the one he has just described in his letter to a born again son of a successful evangelist known the world over.
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Oh thank you and bless you!
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After reading this, the fake ‘I’m trying to understand’ tone, the twisting of Rev Graham’s words, It is no wonder Peter has a small congregation. And a good thing too. No one else should be listening to this guy sow discord, listening to his sanctimonious arrogant tone, his irrationality. All in the name of Jesus Christ? Yeah, Pete, check the board in your own eye and well just be quiet. You have not displayed the love of Jesus Christ toward Rev Graham in this letter. Shame on you.
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Enough said?
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Peter,
If you have enough courage to write this letter to Rev Graham, why not sign your full name or mention the name of your church? Just wondering…is there someone you would rather not know you wrote it?
The fall of Christianity comes when Christians stand by and do nothing. That’s when we will cease to exist….the Bible tell us this!
Do I think Trump was put in the White House by God…I don’t know. But I do know that the left was against, part of the right was against him and no one thought he would ever win…but he did! How many times have all of us said, “God works in mysterious ways”?
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There you go!👍🏻
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There are many who are on a witch hunt among conservatives to ruin those who do not have a grab em by the pussy agenda. It was well written and not untruthful.
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No one here who disagrees with Peter has a “grab em by the pussy” agenda. That’s a straw man argument. BTW, Trump made those comments when he was a full fledged card carrying member of the Democratic Party, who supported Hilary Clinton.
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Uhhh, the name and church are listed on the website. It’s revolsen.com… click teice and the Internet shall provide answers to thine question.
Or be angry and lazy… whichever
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Pastor, I agree with most of your letter, but not your style of delivery. I don’t understand why you must mock and be sarcastic in your “letter” to Mr. Graham. That disturbed me greatly. Why not just state the facts? I was very surprised to read that you are a church pastor. As a Christian, I am very cognizant to not tear down my brother or sister when I’m trying to make a point. As a pastor, is this how you view your church members? Are you secretly mocking them if they have different views than you? It is not a very loving way to behave to God’s children. Please pray for Mr. Graham, and I will pray for you both! And I will pray for our country and leaders, because if they fail, we all lose.
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I agree. I was thinking that also.
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Amen! Well said…you have expressed my thoughts exactly while reading this. The mocking condescending judgmental tone was very unsettling to say the least. It’s never gonna get any better if we keep throwing stones!
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I know it shouldn’t make a difference but let’s not forget Franklin Graham is supposed to be a minister as well.
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Anyone want to CC Mike Huckabee on this?
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I am for F. Graham all the way. I had a little trouble with his dad as a 15 year old doing door to door salvation techniques but we both moved forward from that. Franklin is honest, true and caring. He exhonerares the fruits of the spirit (love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, forgiveness, gentleness, patience, self-control . . .) which is in the Bible.
I will take a preachers words from the Bible ANY day over a persons analogy or interpretation of what someone has said. The Bible IS the word of God. All I have seen here is a political rant and an unbiblical attempt to rationalize sin – the position of open rebellion against a relationship of the very one who made you, created you, God himself, the I AM. If you don’t know Him, you don’t and won’t truly get it. It is that simple. He reveals himself to those who truly believe.
It is not about social issues or religion or church or sexuality or sin. It is about loving the one who made us and gave His life up so that we could be forgiven of our sins and with Him forever. He wants what we want – relationship.
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Amen and amen!!
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I have my doubts about the veracity of this letter’s origin. Given, that, if we were to follow this man’s point to it’s logical conclusion, it would lead us to the fact that all that must be done to stop the spread of the gospel is for the government to pass a law against spreading the gospel in any and all forms. Then we would be obligated by the teachings of Paul and Peter, to play by the rules and obey the law. Persecution does not have to be death and pain and misery as our brothers have in say Iran. It can come in the form of a godly teacher telling the truth about the theory of evolution and being fired, or a Christian physicist debunking the lie of anthropomorphic global warming and loosing his tenure. Or yes, even the Christian business person refusing to do business with somebody who desires that business to support homosexuality and being driving out of business for that position. The writer of this letter needs to have a small church and may God keep it that way.
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Well said! I agree with you entirely. It seems that there are many neo-liberal non Christians here who have learned a few Bible verses which to hammer everyone over the head with, not realizing that they are misrepresenting what these verses actually mean. I wonder how many of them are being paid to blog like this.
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Well bless his heart. I guess he hasn’t heard about prayer being banned from public schools, which as we all know the vast majority of kids attend. He also didn’t make mention of the fact that the Ten Commandments are banned from public buildings or citizens (more like paid thugs) are burning the American Flag. Does “One Nation Under God” have no meaning to this man? That’s Religious Persecution people!! Pure and simple!
It’s unfortunate Reverend Graham threw in the same sex marriage issue because the religion I learned clearly says Jesus loves us all. Regardless. No exceptions.
Hope he gets to town soon!
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FYI, the “under God” clause was added in the 1950s. That may affect your opinion, just as it has affected mine. Was 1950s America more American than 1890s America? (Given the whole freedom of religion thing in America… I’d personally vote for the 1920s version).
http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm
And regarding the 10 commandments… do you go to City Hall to worship God? Why must the holy writings of only one of the religions of our country be on display? Does that not indicate favoritism before the law? You know what other countries show favoritism for certain religions or sects of religions? How does the 10 commandment issue actually infringe upon YOUR religious FREEDOM?
Lastly, what does flag burning have to do with RELIGION? I agree it is not right, …. but I have to ask what religious symbol is being burned? The flag of our country has zero religious symbolism – it is stars and stripes not crosses and lambs on that flag.
In my America, religion and country are separate, and I think that precedent should be strictly adhered. Because what would happen if a different religion become more powerful, would they follow that precedent and govern according to American principles or according to their religion? I would hope that THEY would have the insight (and compassion) to opt for the former.
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This makes me almost puke. As a Christian, I can see nothing but destruction from 98% of what I read here. Great work – Jesus is probably about to puke, also. Go think about what you say and then don’t say most of it.
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You have stated everything so well; I can’t really add to it. Thank you for this, truly.
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Amen! Thank you. Well said.
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Wow Pastor Peter that was an awesome response.
The Republicans to me are just the modern-day Pharisees!
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SINCE FRANKLIN GRAHAM REFUSES TO KEEP HIS NOSE OUT OF POLITICS, HERE GOES…..FRANKLIN FOR A MAN THAT SAYS HE WAS BORN AGAIN, AND THAT KNOWS THE ISSUES OF GOD BECAUSE YOU HAVE READ AND STUDIED THE BIBLE, AND STRESSES THAT FACT THAT YOU HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN, I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE IN YOUR SHOES WHEN IT COMES TIME TO EXPLAIN TO THE LORD WHAT YOU ARE DOING AFTER SAYING YOU KNOW HIM. YOU EMBRACE EVERY BIT OF THE EVIL TRUMP HAS DONE, AND CONTINUES TO DO. YOU HAVE EMBRACED EVERYTHING THE BIBLE TELLS US NOT TO DO IF YOU ARE A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN, AND YOU HAVE DISREGARDED ALL OF THE COMMANDMENTS THAT TRUMP HAS BROKEN AND CONTINUES TO DO ALMOST ON A DAILY BASIS. YOU ARE THE EMPIDOMY OF HYPOCRISY BECAUSE EVERY SUNDAY YOU STAND ON YOUR PULPIT AND PREACH TO YOUR FELLOW MAN OVER WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG… BY ACCEPTING TRUMP AS YOU SAY, YOU ARE ACCEPTING BIGOTRY, HATRED AND DISCONTENT, LIES, SEXUAL PERVERSION, MISONGINISM, DOING WRONG TO YOUR FELLOW MAN, STEALING, EMBEZZELMENT, AND THE LIST IS TOO LONG FOR ME TO PUT HERE. IN SHORT FRANKLIN YOU ARE ACCEPTING SATAN HIMSELF BY SAYING WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. YOU CAST OUT DEVILS ON SUNDAY, AND KISS THEIR BEHIND THE REST OF THE WEEK BY HONORING THIS MAN CALLED DONALD TRUMP…..SINCE YOU ARE NOW DEDICATED IN BRINGING YOUR TWO CENTS INTO POLITICS, YOU ARE NOW JOINING YOUR CHURCH TO THE STATE, AND IT IS HIGH TIME THAT YOU START PAYING TAXES ON THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS YOU HAVE SCAMMED OUT OF YOUR CHURCH BY MAKING PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE A MAN OF GOD….PAY TAXES JUST LIKE THE REST OF US, OR SHUT UP AND QUIT PLAYING WITH THE HEADS OF PEOPLE THAT KNOW BETTER. IT IS BAD ENOUGH WE HAVE THE FATHER OF LIES LEADING THIS COUNTRY AT THE PRESENT TIME, WITHOUT HIM GETTING HELP AND PROTECTION FROM YOU. I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOUR PARISHIONERS TO STOP BELIEVING IN YOU AND READ THE PART WHERE THE BIBLE WARNS US NOT TO FOLLOW WOLVES IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING, BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE BECOME. BY DEFENDING TRUMP YOU CONDONE THE FACT THAT MANY WILL BE LEFT WITHOUT HEALTCARE, AND THE BIGOTS IN CONGRESS AND THE SENATE THAT HAVE ALIGNED THEMSELVES IN DOING HARM TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS LAND ARE PROBABLY PATTING YOU ON THE BACK….WE THAT PEOPLE OF THESE UNITED STATES ARE SO TIRED OF BEING USED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT RIP US OFF EVERY SUNDAY BY PROTITUTING THE WORD OF GOD EVERY SUNDAY.
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You go girl!
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And you were okay with Bill Clinton and all off his mistreatment of women, Hillary’s mistreatment of women, racism by Obama? You just don’t like Trump. We the people voted
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From one small church pastor to another, thanks brother. Couldn’t agree more.
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Thank you for restoring my faith in your version of Christianity. I am one of those terrible gay men who according to Graham , et al, has the sole agenda to destroy the Christian faith and to overturn the sanctity of marriage ( in spite of my first marriage of 12 years to an amazing, loving, big-hearted and generous man who I lost to illness, and my current marriage of 15 years to one of the most loving, generous, caring, and Christian men it has been my honor to love, who by the way was shunned and forced out of his church by small minded, mean-spirited, and hateful “good christians ” [small ‘c’ on purpose).
You see, I grew up worshipping in a small ranching community Church such as yours, and was taught to be good to one another, cherish our friends, pray for our enemies, care for the hungry, the sick, the lost, and the lonely. I chose to leave the organized “Church” when I was also shunned when I refused to hide who I am and refused to deny the fierce and beautiful man God created in me. I see the fear that Graham, Focus on the Family, Falwell, Robertson, and their ilk have instilled in those they deem unworthy of God’s love. I see the hatred these “men and women of God” foment and their crusade against those who are different (even those of different faiths). I have known more loving, caring, generous, precious spirits among my brothers and sisters who are outcasts, and I would hope they find A man of God such as you to give them faith and hope.
I too am appalled at this man and his followers and advisors whom the “Power Christians” have claimed as God’s choice to lead our country. I have asked my family members who are all Charismatic or Evangelicals (and who have also shunned me as a member of the family) how they justify placing an adulterous, lying, cheating, mysoginist in authority over our country, to hear their replies of “it was God’s will”, and he is the chosen one to make us a Christian nation again! If this is true, Then this is not the God I know or the God with whom I have my personal relationship. My hope is that the true voice of God will be heard through Pastors such as you. I would gladly worship in your congregation, and would count myself lucky to be one of your flock.
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This letter is disheartening. As Christians we should be uplifting each other that are brothers and sisters in Christ.
We also want to be good examples for those who are not saved and not stumbling blocks to others. Think about this…what if you were thinking about accepting God as your Savior and you stumbled across the internet and read this letter and it turned you away from Christianity..that is a great price to lose a soul forever away from God’s place in heaven. Why don’t you speak personally one on one to Mr. Graham and get your questions answered peacefully instead
of flagging him publically. We should give others a chance to answer our questions and concerns with caring attitudes.
Respectfully with love.
Kelly.
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why is it taking so long to get moderated?
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what’s disheartening is the cynical exploitation of sincere worshippers who already have a psychological need for hierarchy and have been brainwashed and groomed over the past few decades by: “Moral Majority,” “Christian Coalition” to name a couple, with trivial and peripheral catch “issues” designed to limit freedom of women and anyone outside this select club of sheep and shepherds. Trump is viewed in awe the same way that “the claw” was in Toy Story.
Somebody needs to speak out against this well-organized campaign against the poor, the sick, the otherwise marginalized. Jesus himself hung around with the fringe groups of his time, and preached repeatedly that love is the most important thing, along with caring for those less fortunate than yourself, and not judging “lest ye be judged.” (I’m not even going to pretend to know the chapter/verse here. If that’s so important to you then you already know where that is located.)
Peter is speaking to Franklin directly, but also I believe is speaking to this whole movement which has perverted Christ’s message through cherry picking of Bible verses and reframing of others. The Bible is basically a prescription for how to get along with each other and how to have a society that’s sustainable and good for everybody. Repeatedly the Bible talks about caring for the sick, the poor, and not judging those different from you.
Jesus heatedly challenged the notion that people are poor or sick through their own fault, and repeatedly directed us to not judge others even when they act in ways we disapprove of. Jesus also decried the accumulation of wealth. Far from being God’s reward for being “good,” Jesus said a rich person would have a better chance if the door to heaven was through a needle’s eye and they were a camel.
Peter is saying something that needs to be said, that this whole wealth-based, right-wing, finger-pointing movement needs to be called out for what it is; an exclusive club for those born to the right parents and subscribing to the right beliefs as dictated by their philandering, tax-evading, taco-grabbing leader, Donald “The Claw” Trump.
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Yes, I agree. I have been waiting several days. Guess we don’t have the right point of view.
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Amen, Molly. Well said.
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Pastor Peter, thank you for your wonderful post which shares God’s desire for us to love our neighbor. To summarize what you stated, Jesus said “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. ” John 31:34-35. No buts, no exceptions. Just unending love. I pray for the poor, the ill and those who are alone. I pray for Mr. Trump, all terrorists and all who hate. I pray for all who seek to defile God’s message. I pray that their souls may open to the true meaning of God’s word. Sinners though we all may be, we have been redeemed by our Lord, and it’s up to those of us who believe to carry out His commandment by loving without allowing petty prejudices to get in our way. Thank you for pointing that out.
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Very well said thank you!
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Well said, Peter. Thank you.
R C Staton
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Thank you Rev O. …. I so appreciated your “Christ” like look at this insanity swallowing up the conservative right. (I can no longer refer to them as the “Christian right”; I too can not see Christ in their behavior.) I just completed a book titled Strange Gods by Monsignor John Myslinski and Father Peter Daly. I was very touched by the message in this book which like you, gives me hope that there are still some caring, loving and concerned clergy truly SERVING. Thank you again and I hope you don’t mind if I share this letter.
Your Friend in Service,
Kimberly Arbuthnot, RN, Client Liaison
ps Through The Wellness Kitchen and Resource Center in Templeton CA, I help provide nutrient-dense meals to people facing critical illness many of them, are in treatment for cancer. Most of our clients are unable to pay for this service; we give them the food.
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Rev. Graham, I am actually appalled by what you have said recently. I use to think you were following in your Father’s footsteps but now I wonder what he even thinks. Thank you for Samaritan Purse. Other than that I just shake my head.
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Amen
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Brilliant. Simply brilliant.
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I loved your letter and left a response on Facebook that says this ()and I mean it): ” I’d really like to help this guy, even though I don’t follow the same path. My path is kind of fluid, meandering, trying to appreciate as much as I can and act in a way that will cause others to be appreciative. Not to me, but because of me.”
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Can anyone tell me this Pastors full name and his church. He gave me a glimmer of faith tonight that I have not had in a very long time and I would like to thank him.
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Barbara, I am sure others will answer you (and probably already have), but Rev Peter Olsen is the owner of this blog and it is his essay / open letter to Rev Franklin Graham. I believe you can find out more on the “About Us” page on this site.
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I’m not a religious person but I do not understand why this people that they know God they were and still so blind to “This ” antithesis of what religious person is.
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Let me strip away the cloak and deception behind this latest liberal scam seeking to mobilize people of faith to do their political bidding. This screed is nothing but half-truth, a tawdry little bit of manipulation for someone’s covert political agenda.
This political hit-piece comes from those who are still angry they couldn’t control the outcome of an election. I really doubt many of them have ever darkened the door of a church in their lives, save the odd funeral or wedding.
Pete? Do you mind if I call you that? The reason you have such a small church is that you preach a leftist political agenda from the pulpit instead of the life-changing gospel of Jesus Christ, so let me have a missionary-to-preacher conversation:
Pete, have you ever heard of a pastoral methodology known as Expository Teaching? It means that you take your precious pulpit time and give those 40 parishioners some quality teaching from the Bible–not pick and choose verses, but whole chapters, whole books, in context, with help from the original Greek and Hebrew. Your tiny group of believers will have their spirits fed, growing into vibrant, powerful, loving individuals who achieve true social justice by leading people around them into a personal relationship with Christ, whom God sent to save the world from sin. By sin, I mean guilt, fear, anger, lust, substance abuse, dysfunctional relationships, dishonesty and the loss of trust–basically every social ill that needs a solution, but which cannot truly be solved until the people living in darkness have their hearts made alive by the presence of the Father in heaven who created them. This requires a one-on-one encounter, an ephiphany with the Holy One who created the universe and who made each of us.
I have a hunch that when those 40 or so experience a vibrant, joyful and life-changing encounter with the God who not only forgives their sin, but actually wants to live with us, and actually live inside us, they’ll be changed and they’ll bring truth and justice to the world around them–all social justice–not just the kind that fits a statist or conservative agenda. If you did that, your little congregation might very quickly become a larger congregation, one that has influence in your community as a witness to the power, forgiveness and love of the God who made us all. That is the promise of Jesus wrapped up in John 3:16
That promise is what motivates tens of thousands of Samaritan’s Purse, Operation Christmas Child volunteers like myself to work to help children who are victims of war, famine, natural disaster, and yes, politics, even politics like yours which preach salvation without God’s involvement.
We sent well over 11 million shoebox gifts to those kids last year, touching off a ripple effect that changes individuals, families, cultures, economies, and even nations. We might not have reached that goal without the encouragement and giftedness of Franklin Graham, who happens to lead Samaritan’s Purse.
I guess you could find fault with some part of that work, or even with the work Franklin performs by leading thousands of people into a new relationship with God Through Christ each year during evangelistic events…but then you’d just be continuing to spread your current message of anger over our failure to solve social problems that are impossible to solve without God’s help, the anger of class envy and the strife of political division. Of course you’d get to keep your current tiny congregation tiny, but then if you were honest, you’ll admit your congregation has been shrinking anyway. And if you continue preaching politics instead of peace, bitterness instead of blessings, your church will keep shrinking… to 25 members, then fifteen, then ten, then…
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Maybe you should reread this letter. Graham is the villain here, pushing hate rather than love. And btw in not the size of church that matters, it how you use it. And Pete knows how to use it !
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The problem with so many groups is their hypocrisy. Peter is spot on with his letter to Graham. The problem with groups like this is that they talk the talk, but often don’t walk the walk. And through their rhetoric, they spew hate and venom which the masses seem to thrive upon. Nowhere did Peter say that Graham’s work was wrong: he just questioned his actions and rhetoric based on the verses in the Bible. The biggest problem with a patriarchal society is the control they want to exert over the populace who is quite capable of choosing for themselves. The threat of hell fire and brimstone has turned me off since I was 9 years old. If people truly followed God, there would be peace in the world. There are many paths to God: Christianity is only one. And all those paths come together at one point. Trying to convince others that your way is the ONLY way is arrogant and counterproductive. My God loves unconditionally ALL of his children, and She does not condone judging others. God, whatever He or She is, is love: nothing more, nothing less. Following man will lead to your own frustration and failures. We are all children of God: and there are no exceptions. Thank you Peter for saying what I have believed almost all of my life. God Bless! ❤
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He said GOD put Trump in the white house 😃 The devil has special plans too, to place his soldiers were he needs them to be placed. Even in these money hungry, driven churches
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~ The Separation Of Church And Hate:
There is a good reason why Church and State must always remain separate. Let’s get something straight, right from the start: A theocratic state is not a free state, and never will be. I’m sure it was never Jesus’ intention nor was it His will that anyone should be dominated in His name, the name of Christ. That is the will of men. To be accurate, the concept in itself is anti-Christian. You can only follow Christ by choice, not by legislation.
It seems some people are more intent on casting stones at perceived sinners than propagating the love of Christ. ~ “Above all else, I command you love one another”. ~ This was the message that Jesus preached, and as far as I can see, the worth of a soul will only be measured as such. But I can assure you of one thing, when your time of judgment comes, you won’t be asked to recite scripture, but rather, if anything, the question will be: Did you get the message and live by it?
For all of you people out there on the religious right, you should try to remember that looking for sins to condemn, and people to persecute in the name of God, is simply Satan’s way of keeping you from seeing what is good and praiseworthy. It’s Satan’s favorite means of deceit; getting people to hate and kill each other in the name of God and Christ Jesus. Twisting scripture to incite hatred and division.
Understand this; that by doing so, you are defaming the name of Christ, associating Jesus with bigotry and hate. Jesus was never cursed with these feelings, these sins that you commit in His name. It’s widely agreed that He rose above it all, and to use His name for the justification of spreading contempt and hatred for anyone is true heresy. It isn’t Pro-Christ by any means, but clearly Anti-Christ.
*******************************************************************
~ It doesn’t really seem to matter at this point if you believe in God and Christ or not. What we have are Anti-Christians, the antithesis of the persona Jesus, and they are attempting, through legislation, to declare America to be a theocratic state and nation, legitimizing discrimination under the false guise of “religious freedom”. If you’re not one of the “chosen” you’re fair game for persecution, oppression and abuse. It’s a perfect “us” and “them” scenario. If you express opposing views to the “Order” or you’re a non-believer, or in any way perceived as a “sinner”, they’ll be coming for you.
~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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Even Christ was angered with the money lenders in His Father’s House!!! We as Christians should stand up for our beliefs! Too many times people like you say we should turn the other cheek! ENOUGH!! that is a liberal left argument that we conservatives no longer buy!
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People like Jesus? I’m very confused by your comment, you seem to be saying completely unconnected things. How does the issue of exploitative profiteering in the temple relate to not wanting to follow Jesus’s direction to turn the other cheek?
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You do know Jesus himself said to turn the other cheek, right? So are you admitting that Jesus is liberal, or do you mean that in order to stand up for our beliefs we should stop following Jesus?
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Jesus was the one who said to turn the other cheek. Jesus was the one who washed the feet of the prostitute, despite the scorn and condescension she received from the “holy.”
Peter’s letter makes total sense. Franklin Graham is entitled to his own views, but he does not speak for all of Christianity, nor does he hold a monopoly on what is right or righteous.
Can’t hep but wonder whether the pious cake-bakers would make a wedding cake for a second marriage of divorced people? (Oh the shame!). Or bake a wedding cake for Donald Trump, who has been so vocal about his misogynistic views on women and has been married three times? It’s OK to “forgive” and overlook as long as the person is heterosexual?
You might smell sweet wedding cake. I smell hypocrisy.
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Um, JaneAdele, what “Christian” writings are you referring to????
I know that Jesus prevented a “prostitute” from being stoned and then told her to “GO AND SIN NO MORE”…
I know that while Jesus was reclining at dinner with upper class religious, a “prostitute” came in and washed HIS FEET with her tears of sorrow and repentance…SHE DID NOT demand that He wash her feet by threat of a lawsuit in order to condone her lifestyle.
If PRIVATE bakers losing their business and livelyhood, because ACTIVISTS were (and did) setting legal precedence, NOT because they didn’t have a choice–can’t be seen as one level of Christian persecution….then, yes…
There definitely is hypocrisy here…
When the Light of truth returns in His glory, EVERYONE will see & understand the absolute truth simultaneously….
And what we think we know will be tested…js
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Oh maybe you’re Reading a different Bible than I am. I can’t find anywhere Jesus washing the feet of a prostitute. I’m pretty sure it was the other way around. She washed His feet with spikenard.
He washed the feet of his disciples. Please give your Bible another reading.
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Please explain where in the Bible it says “Thou Shalt Ignore Laws That Don’t Allow You To Show Hatred To Those Who Aren’t Like You, And Cry The Butthurt Fantastic When You Are Called On It”?
I’ll wait.
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~ JESUS THE COMMODITY ~
~ As Seen On TV ~ Televangelists, selling Jesus by the gram. Mega-churches ministered by evil men seeking wealth and power, deceiving those seeking spiritual guidance. Stealing their wages, stealing their souls and telling them how they want them to vote. All in the name of Jesus. ~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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Anonymous Peter, have you forgotten what happen to Jimmy Swaggart when he started judging Richard Baker and the government? Should you not be speaking LIFE, or preaching JESUS? just a reminder, the Gospel is GOOD NEWS! The Bible teaches: Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4 NKJV. Focus on JESUS, let HIM JUDGE the Body of whom you and Franklin are a part! Could be GOD will Add to your church.
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Please show where in the Bible it says that followers of Jesus are not allowed to cry foul when those who ignore Jesus’ teachings call themselves Christian in order to line their pockets and call for the oppression of those who do not meet the Pharisees’ standards of “holiness” (which, apparently, is “be white and male, call yourself Christian, and spread hatred for women, gays, non-whites, the educated, and anyone else who may be hip to your game”).
Please also show where in the Bible it says that, conversely, the actions of one or a small group of non-Christians means that all non-Christians are just like that one or that small group, and that they are to be hated, dehumanized, and murdered in the name of Republican Jesus.
I’ll wait.
Oh, and nice try hinting that Rev. O has some kind of skeletons in his closet a la Jimmy Swaggart. I see what you tried to do there.
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Peter is not anonymous. Click on the Trinity’s Portico or Pastor Olsen at the heading of the article, or the http/ at the posting on Face Book.
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Rev. Peter, I have been away from church for years, after having been so involved in ministry for decades. Truth is, I got so tired of people. Church was becoming a social without seeing the fruits of our labor outside of church. And I have found it too painful to walk into another church, although I have tried. But, having read your letter, I could see myself run into your church! So proud of you. Keep up the good fight, Sir! God bless you and your flock. You have given me renewed hope. 💖
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Wow. Just wow.
I’m an atheist but appreciate every word that this fine man wrote. Our planet needs more people of faith like him.
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If support from an atheist matters, “Pastor” Peter really ought to be proud. What a joke (comment, and open letter).
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If God hadn’t stepped, in than this little church and it’s pastor wouldn’t have the right to open it’s doors or preach before long. Praying for a real revival across our country to bring us back to God and be an outreach before Jesus comes!
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The United States is not now and never has been a Christians-only theocracy. The First Amendment and its Establishment Clause is a product of the Enlightenment, not the Dark Ages that you and your fellow Seven Mountains crowd are so eager to get back to.
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Billy Graham was a corporatist. He was supported by the “conservative” big money to quash the social gosple that was for a more populous democracy. Franklin takes it to another level and an unabashed upper class demagogue.
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Nicoli Machiavelli wrote a small but influential book hundreds of years ago outlining the scandalous way church and politics when mixed lead people astray. The thought of blending the two is reprehensible to me and leads to the extinguishing of the Church’s and Gospels’ flame. Like the person mentioned above, the Lord’s Kingdom is not of this world. Theocratic rule by persons, not Christ, leads to disaster and falling away. . Pastor Peter, I do so appreciate your letter in pointing us all to a deeper faith and commitment to Jesus Christ, that is, Jesus of the Bible. Preaching the Gospel: Luke 4 describes it best: The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord…this kind of good news Jesus says is not limited to words; the gospel must be tangible to see the “unseen, intangible God”… We often quote John 3:16—yet treat those different than whom we are with contempt and smugness rather than God’s love. We must be grateful for ministries that exalt the Lord Jesus…if “I” He said “be lifted up, I will draw all men to me.” Don’t exalt men nor trust in them, but trust in God. No leader in and of this country is to be glorified..they are but men and women very, very fallible just like us. Lastly, from Titus 3:1 (maybe a word of balance) Be Ready for Every Good Work
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. Let us all, brothers and sisters, turn our thoughts to the Lord Jesus…and cry out for the dispossessed, poor, the ill, the disabled, the stranger, the alien to the Lord and as God gives us the ability to American leaders. Again, with you, Pastor Pete, our persecution or slander that occurs to us should be expected and we are called to REJOICE in it. Our martyred sisters and brothers should be honored for their great sacrifice and not diminished by our “poor me” attitude. The gospel when it is truly followed and believed will for sure draw criticism, even death. The rejection of people is not the good news message.
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To sum up Brad’s post:
Jesus said “Love your neighbour unconditionally, stand up against oppressors (i.e. Fight The Power), and don’t be a jerk.” Those who call themselves Christians would do well to remember that.
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Well done, Paster Pete.
I’m totally agnostic. But this essay totally rocks.
I was raised by conservative Baptists. (Have mostly recovered). Haven’t been to church in decades and don’t plan to change that. But this is the kind of religion I could possibly get behind–at least partly. IMO Christ was just a wise and good man. Nothing more. But his teachings cross the ages. As do Buddha’s and the Dalai Lama’s.
He taught us to be kind to others, care for those in need, be accepting and tolerant of others. He did not teach the baloney Frank Graham (and his father), and the other wealthy televangelists espouse–most of which sat well with my parents and their fellow church-goers.
Thanks!
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Amen…Someone that actually reads and follows what Jesus said and did…Unlike these Hippocrates pretending to be Christians that are only worried about themselves.
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When you think about it. The term “Christian” merely means “Christ-like.” Christ was principled but forgiving. He was tolerant and kind yet spoke about social injustice. He helped the poor and down-trodden. That’s all we need to know, and his example is all we need to follow, no matter whether we are Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Episcopal, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, agnostic or atheist.
Note to Rev. Graham: “Blessed are the meek.”
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For those who think that God can only use a perfect minister or president, may I remind you that God used Moses, Gideon. David etc. among others. We are not called to slander one another in the church. In fact, we aren’t to take each other to court and I believe that includes the court of public opinion. If this pastor really feels that he has found some grave sin in Pastor Franklin’s life or ministry, he should be on his knees praying for him and go to speak with him privately and if unsuccessful with a godly witness, etc. but instead, he uses a public forum to draw attention to himself and his perspective and with his interpretation of the facts. The tone and anger of this letter make me wonder where is the Fruit of the Holy Spirit in this pastor’s life. I was saved in a small church and have much admiration for those who continue on where God has placed them but the same is true for those called to shepherd a larger congregation. As for President Trump, lets judge the man by what he does today, not from something in his past. If God has forgiven him, what right does this pastor to harbor such anger and ill will….
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I believe that we as Christians need to support those who can’t stand up for themselves. Christ stood up to the Pharisees and Saducees during his time here on earth when others were being treated unfairly. Franklyn Graham is NOT helping the poor, the disabled, the homeless, women, and all of those who have been mistreated by this administration by supporting our current President. I have heard this ridiculous Biblical analogy before of God putting Trump in control comparing him to Moses and others. I do not know who Started this unbelievable comparison, but it needs to stop. That is why we have our new covenant in Christ which was played out in the New Testament. Christ our Saviour is now our example and we must try and follow him. Trump and his followers should not call themselves Christians if they choose to discard those who need help, love and support. I am not the best Christian, but I do know I am called as a Christian to try and live like Christ. I am not going to sit back and let the underprivileged be stepped on and discriminated against by the current administration. It is just plain wrong.
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Btw, even though you may not agree with Franklin Graham, his group called Samaritans’ Purse has been an incredible help to a ton of people in 3rd world countries. Feel free to look it up. He’s doing a lot more for people in the name of Christ than most.
Todd
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That’s lovely Todd. And am I assume that, in your eyes, all of his fundraising and good works in the third world make it acceptable for him electioneer from the pulpit in support of political candidates here at home, who are actively working to strip people of all of the things his charity provides for the faceless masses overseas?
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So basically Sandra, what you are saying is that Rev. O is not allowed to call out the Pharisees and that he is not allowed to be angry at the usurpation of the Word of Chuck by Seven Mountains Dominionists and Theoligarchs like Franklin Graham.
Can you please tell me where in the Bible it says “Thou shalt not call out the hypocrites and those who are unapologetic about sexually assaulting women”?
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Sandra, I felt the same way. Pastor Olsen has a great message on preaching the gospel, but I found his tone to be quite snarky and condescending. As such, he falls into the same condemnation for which he accuses Mr. Graham.
Peace
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Amen! You have stated the only true response to this otherwise questionable diatribe. Thank you for your post.
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Sandra, Amen!
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Very well put.
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I agree. His condescending tone negated every point he was tryinv to prove. He needs to follow his own words and love his neighbor. Too much hypocrisy in his letter for me.
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So well-said! Thank you, Peter!
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Reblogged this on The William Tell and commented:
Fuel for thought.
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As a person raised in a conservative church, who found the hypocrisy and judgement of that community completely unbearable, I thank you for this letter. I am proud of the ELCA church, because you teach the things that truly matter to making it to heaven (love, compassion, and forgiveness).
But nothing has pushed me further away from Christianity than this past election, where it seemed the conservative church was able to justify voting for such a hate-filled, unChristian person…. for what? One Supreme Court appointee?
I thank you for the letter, because this is the church that makes sense given the message I learned and the Bible I read growing up. God bless your small church.
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Peter thank you for you thoughtful words, the provocative way you addressed the teachings of F. G., and the faith which you share. I find it really interesting to read all of the anger spewed at you from the “conservatives” who claim that you are somehow skewing the words of the Bible. I guess that Matthew 25 doesn’t speak for itself?!?
Apparently, according to many here, if you (we) are pastors and preachers that our churches are doomed to decline and always being small. It seems according to them that the size of the church indicates the truth of the preaching. By this logic, any church where the pastor spews the hatred of what F.G. preaches would be large. I have been a pastor for 25 years now. I have seen many, many small churches in the communities that I have served. I assure you that over 90% of those churches are given a very heavy dose of fundamentalist, conservative preaching. I can also assure you that I do not believe that those churches are still small because of that. They are still small because they are what we call “family churches”, or because they do not seek to grow, or because they are in competition with larger churches and the programs that they can offer, or because they are in small and declining communities. The people that choose to denigrate small churches as somehow un-viable or of no value do not understand the church at all. There is value in God’s eyes for all of these churches. Even though there are so many large and mega churches making press, still to this day there are more people in small churches than large churches. Pastors are called to care for their congregations and to be there for them in the midst of their lives. F.G. never has to sit with a family for months as they experience the terrible diseases that ravage our bodies and minds. He does not pastor. He preaches. He does not share in the intimate lives of parishioners, or see how his words can comfort or destroy because he chooses to be a purely political leader. Faith and politics go hand in hand. But when your politics inform your faith you should step back. The Bible does not seem to suggest that the things that trump stands for are good. It does tell us to care for the widow and orphan. It does show the early church sharing all things so that everyone had what they needed. It does show us ministering to the sick, clothing the naked, feeding the hungry. It does not show us vilifying these people but caring for them without complaint.
You may criticize Peter for his method of writing but claiming that he somehow interpreted the Bible out of context shows that you have not seriously read these foundational texts.
Keep preaching truth to power Peter.
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I’m sorry for you all….I will lift you up in prayer. God Bless.
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AMEN!
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When I read the short sentence “Stop with the drama already” I thought how Jewish that phrase was. Then when I read the signature “Peter” I thought yes, Peter was a Jew as was Jesus. So the letter was written by the Apostle Peter. Just wonderful, so I shared it 😀
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G-D has chosen sinners throuvhout thr Bible to do awesome work for Him. The Bible speaks of leaders for the nations as having been chosen by Him. Also
G-D has specifics for persons in foreign nations. They are to take care of themselves if they are able.
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Well said!
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Peter’s letter is too full of scriptural inaccuracies to be legitimate. For example, who in the world would relate a wedding cake to feeding the hungry? This is just ridiculous. There is much for which Graham, and in fact the entire Billy Graham legacy, can be criticized. The support of Trump by evangelicals is despicable. I agree with the premise of the letter, but the snark and condescension are suspect.
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Peter wasn’t relating it that way per se. He was saying that there are more important things to Christianity than a cake. I think Peter made his points very well. Franklin Pierce has only done what it takes to further himself in and make himself more important in the political scheme of things. These mega churches are only out for personal gain, getting millions from their followers but letting the poor and needy stay poor and needy.
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Do you mean Franklin Graham?
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Love the snotty attitude and obtuse observations of this, “pastor”. The fact that atheists and agnostics approved it should tell you something.
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Right, because it’s not like we’re actual people, or anything. You are everything that is wrong with Christianity, bub. Just sayin’.
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I don’t like the sacastic tone of this letter. Whether the writer’s thesis is correct or incorrect, the choice of words as well as suggesting that Frank should read his Bible is condescending. I think the message would be more effectively shared without this un-Christlike and arrogant tone.
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It’s not known how many evangelicals have even ever read the Bible through or simply rely on their pastors to brainwash them. My lesbian wife-pastor has for example read the Bible through yearly since 1983. However the most important things written in the Bible are the teachings of Jesus. I believe the sarcasm of this letter portrays the obvious inference that many evangelicals have clearly lost touch with the actual teachings of Jesus and have in effect become moder day pharacees and saducies fought up in nitpicking the Bible and extorting verses out of context or cultural meaning rather than listening to the heart of Jesus words and life examples
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What a wonderful way to describe what I call true Christianity. What I strive for though I may never reach this pinnacle.
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Peter had me at calling Rev Graham “Frank”. Disrespect. Then making a mockery of Rev Grahams money availability, what truly does Peter know about it? And if Peter were to see the bigger picture, yes the Bible does tell us to live one another but it doesn’t mean that you tolerate the sin being committed. If we are going to use unwritten rules I’d say to Peter, thou shall not be snarky…..
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Peter, could you please further identify yourself? I have quite a debate going on and it would help your side if you were authenticated as a real pastor…
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Pete, if you didn’t sound sound so self-righteous, bitter, jealous, smug, sarcastic and disrespectful, I might be able to hear what you’re trying to say and you might gain an actual hearing… but you do.
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Amen I wish your church was here. I refuse to go to church because my God loves all. Black,white ,gay straight poor or rich. We are to help the needy no matter what.
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Brilliant! Mr. Graham’sfather must surely be turning in the grave.
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Except he is still living……
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you failed to mention trump’s quote to the nra, that he will protect the “sacred right” to pack a gun. i missed Christ’s reference to sacred gun rights in the new testament.
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He that hath a sword, let him take it….
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I read about half of this letter and I have to say that I agree with everything it expressed, but I could not get through all. I can do without the sarcasm. It just makes you sound like a jerk even if you are right.
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I, too, am bothered by the high and mighty judgemental people using Christianity to condemn other people. As a Christian, I can not stand the hypocrisy. Thank you for publishing this. I hope it opens just one person’s heart to what they are actually accomplishing when they look down on others.
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Hmmmm, first I don’t believe this is a pastor of a small church. No person of God, a pastor, a Shepard would go after another brother with this attitude of sarcasm and passive aggressive .
There is plenty of “persecution” of the Church in the US it just doesn’t reach the level of other parts of the world, this I am grateful for. Likely the reason these”small church pastors ” feel this way is because they are not doing anything for the cause of Christ that places them in the position of what Jesus said – they will hate you because of me.
Wherever the apostle Paul went, there was a revival or riot. Everywhere I go, they serve tea.
– an Anglican cleric
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Dear Peter: God didn’t consider baking a cake for Sodom (From whence comes the word Sodomy) He just rained fire and brimstone upon them.
Gene
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I have no need for a deity in my life, I don’t know what, if anything comes after my last exhale. Having been a ‘small church’ christian for 22 yrs. ’45 to ’67, later studied major world religions, came to only one conclusion. I have lived my life as though it doesn’t matter if there is, or isn’t, a ‘creator’. I walked away from all organized religion in ’69 and never looked back. I must say, that was a awesome ‘sendup’ to Graham who Norman Vincent Peale would have labeled a religious vulgarian. Keep your course, do no harm and all ways / always remember, it is the weak who are cruel, gentleness can only come from the strong.
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Great, thank you Peter for writing that. I have been waiting for someone to tell it like it is. I
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Last time I checked, Jesus didn’t get involved with politics. When the people came to make him a King, he fled. He only instructed that his disciples “pay unto Caesar what is due to Caesar.” To obey the law unless it runs contrary to God’s law. So Frank shouldn’t even be getting involved in the worlds politics if he was truly walking like Christ. Neither should any of the other religions that call themselves “Christians.” They hypocrisy of these ones is astounding. They have these mega-churches where they fleece the honest hearted. They live lavish lifestyles off that money received. Whereas the person they supposedly follow never had such things and warned against storing up such like things. They are truly despicable and Jesus will hold them accountable and flip them over as he did the money changers in his Fathers house when the time comes.
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What an arrogant “pastor” that obviously doesn’t know much about the Bible. Your obnoxious sarcasm drips with hate towards a Christian. Homosexuality is an abomination in God’s eyes. Have you read leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Genesis 18:20-21, Genesis 29:4-5, Peter 2:6, Romans 1:26-27, Romans 1:18, Jude 6-7, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10? You are a disgrace degrading a man of God that stands with God on his word. So thankful those people did not condone a homosexual “marriage” by Making a cake for it. God would approve! Christians are not supposed to be of the world but in the world. We don’t celebrate sin as you do.
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Correction – God would NOT approve!
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I should point out that God also demands that women who are caught being raped be forced to marry their attacker (Deuteronomy 22:28-29), UNLESS that woman is already promised to another man AND the rape occurs within city limits–then she and her rapist are both to be executed for adultery (Deuteronomy 22:23-24).
God also calls the following things abominations:
Shellfish
Meat cooked in dairy
Pork
Pretty much any non-poultry animal that isn’t a ruminant with cloven hooves
Working on the Sabbath
A menstruating woman
A man who has a wet dream
The disabled
Lying
Cheating in business
Moneylending with interest
Oppressing the needy and the poor
Oh, but I guess the New Testament magically erases all those other abominations while leaving the call for gays and lesbians to be executed, hmm?
Either follow all of the Law (ALL OF IT), or follow none of it. You can’t decide that one thing is OK while the rest isn’t–you know, that whole “not one jot or tittle” business in Matthew 5:18
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If, and I mean if, some supernatural hand put Donald Trump in the White House, it is more likely to be referred to in The Revelations of St John the Divine than any other.
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It is a shame to see one preacher bash another preacher. I do not think it will help. 😦
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Sandra, Amen!
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Don’t like the sarcasm. Doubt this came from a real man of God. I belong to a mega church that truly serves the poor. I formerly belonged to a small church that also did this. Size doesn’t matter. Perhaps this author is uninformed of all Franklin does to help the poor around the world. Trump is not a perfect man, but I, too, believe God chose him for this Presidency.
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I know neither Pastor Olsen nor Reverend Graham, but I was dismayed by the disrespectful tone of this open letter. Pastors model behavior for their flocks. This is a terrible example of how to approach disagreements among Christians. If you want to take Graham to task, do so point by point, fact on fact, without smearing the man. Your claim that Jesus’ “sole concern” is how we treat the “least” actually applies to all our neighbors, Reverend Graham included.
On the subject of “sole concern”, a full reading of the Bible suggests that you got that wrong. Your definition is too narrow. How we treat people is huge, no doubt. Shame on us if we fail there. But Matthew 28 is one of the most-important passages in the Bible. At the end of the chapter, after Jesus states that all authority has been given to him, he gives us what simply must be the ultimate command: Go and make disciples. Jesus has concern about spreading the Gospel, too.
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Amen brother!
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Not the OP but rather the comment above concerning the Great Commission!
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Someone needs to call out the so called evangelical pastors that have politicized Christianity. I do not find his analysis arrogant or disrespectful.
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Jesus politicized Christianity when He said “love your enemies”, and in many other of His teachings as well. To separate the Christian world view, or Christian morality from politics is impossible. This is not the same as separating the church (as an institution) and the state (as an institution). And in a democratic republic, the people are Caesar! Christians are to act justly and to promote justice. And remember, Christ’s strongest words of condemnation were to the Pharisees precisely because they “neglected justice, mercy and faithfulness”.
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You are wrong. This was not disrespectful in the least. He spoke for many people who see religion affecting politics and that is against the constitution. It is causing a bitter division in the whole country.
The constitution also protects your right to believe what you want, but not to force it on everyone else.
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The idea of the separation of church (institution) and state (institution) is, in fact a Christian concept. It does not mean that people who have Christian standards of morality and justice should not influence public policy. That would be Communism, not Christianity or Democracy.
And it is the state which is forcing the bakers to commit what they believe to be a sin by participating in the desecration of what is sacred to them. The baker were not forcing anything on anyone. They were simply exercising their religious right to not be forced to do something which violated their religious beliefs.
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How can you say the Pastor was wrong because of his tone, when Rev Graham stands for and supports policies to ruin the lives of millions of people? You need to choose which type of Christian you will be; one who stands up and speaks the truth or one who’s worried about baking a cake or a same sex couple?
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Could b wrong but guessing that small time pastor named Peter is NOT. Pastor or Peter.
Lots of disrespect it seems. Agree he has a right2a voice. Disagree with many of his, could b a her, thoughts
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Time to open your eyes as well as your heart. This IS Pastor Olsen’s website (blog.) Every word he writes is God’s truth. Try reading and understanding.
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I am not a church goer but I did graduate from a Bible School, and I don’t for one minute believe that Peter Olsen (aka Pastor Olsen) wrote his open letter as a pastor, but as a Liberal who is hiding behind well chosen verses taken out of context to spread the Liberal agenda. Pastor Olsen’s crying was not actually directed at the Reverend Franklin Graham, he simply used the Famous name to gain audience for his Liberal, Socialist rantings. For misusing and taking out of context the bible to try and attack both the American way of life, and the teachings of a gifted minister, I say Shame on You, Pastor Olsen.
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Brian, you forget the words of Christ himself in Mathew 22: 35-40
“Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,”
“Master, which is the great commandment in the law?”
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.”
“This is the first and great commandment.”
“And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
Love thy God, he commands. Later, he also says “if ye do love me, follow my commandments”. So, we shall. We shall love our God, with all our heart, with all our mind, and with all our soul. We shall also obey him, and in doing so love our neighbor, whom, he explains in the parable of the Good Samaritan, is everyone. We will love them, even those that don’t deserve it. After all, what have WE ever done to deserve HIS love? We pillaged, we stole, we lied, we murdered, we raped, we destroyed each other in ways so inhumane that the world came together to end it as one. We have hurt Him so much more than we could even imagine, and yet… He loves us. All of us. Unconditionally. He doesn’t care if we’ve destroyed cities, if we call Him Allah, Yahweh, Brahma, Buddha, God, Dad, or anything else. He doesn’t care if we love another man, or another woman. He doesn’t care if we hate Him and wish He never existed. He loves us anyway. He loves us so much that He would sacrifice His only son, his ONLY son, to allow us to scrub away our sins, and make scarlet stains be like virgin snow. So who are we to deny our love for someone else, be they a Muslim refugee fleeing a foreign war or a gay man named Bill who wants a cake so that the man he loves will be able to best enjoy their wedding? We are all equal in the eyes of our loving Father. All of us.
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Loving someone does not mean accepting everything they do. We can love a smoker while pointing out to him/her that smoking is unhealthy. What loving parent would allow their child to play in the street where there are cars speeding by? It is the same with any sin. The Word of God (both Old and New Testament) clearly identify acts of homosexuality as sin. That does not mean we don’t love homosexuals. It DOES mean we do not affirm their actions because we know that they are ultimately harmful to them.
Nor were the bakers refusing to serve this couple because they were homosexual. If they were wanting a cake for a birthday celebration or to congratulate one of them on a graduation or something like that, they would not have been denied service. But the cake was for an event which, in the eyes of these bakers, was a desecration of what is sacred. It would be calling “Caesar Lord, when they know that Jesus is Lord”.
But let me ask you. If you were in these bakers shoes, and anyone from a so-called “protected status” asked you to bake a cake to celebrate the success of Ashley Madison in promoting adultery in America, would you bake it?
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Totally agree with you Brian. When I read Peter’s letter, the feeling in my gut was my guide. When he suggested to Franklin that “the Bible is a great book, you should read it sometime,” my gut felt that knife. Not an adult (nor a cool) way to make a point. I’m no pastor. Nor do I profess to be a theologian in any respect. Still I would suggest that Peter read the rather short, but informative, book of James – especially about the use – and the misuse – of the tongue. It is my personal belief that condescending attitudes, especially from those of the clergy, are a substantial part of what turns folks away from the church. I let that very thing keep me away for years. That was a lot of time I wasted that I’ll never get back. Thank God that Jesus is Lord and all is forgiven. I hope that this sends a message that we all could learn more about being more civil towards one another when it comes to disagreements. I willingly include myself there! The coolest thing we can do is acknowledge that we can agree to disagree. Group hug! David Callaway
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“[Paul was] persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.” Romans 15:14. If someone claims to be a Christian, then Christians have an obligation to correct the person claiming to be a Christian, and to admonish them when they deviate from what Christ and the Apostles taught. I have serious concern that fundamentalists are not Christian at all, that there is no such thing as “Christian” fundamentalism and that it should be regarded as another totalitarian ideology along with all religious fundamentalist movements, but I do not know Reverend Graham personally. I do not perceive the working of the Holy Spirit in his “ministry,” but that may be my own blindness. I will take him at his word that he is a Christian, but if he is, then he is subject to Pastor Olsen’s admonition.
As for making disciples, the Great Commission to which you refer in Matthew 28, the best chance you will ever have to influence the salvation of another person is when you show that person love and kindness, the self-sacrificing charity that the work of Christ and the Apostles centered on. Charity — being, as a Christian, the love of God manifest in the world — is the method of evangelization. It doesn’t do any good to argue about the meaning of scripture with people who have no knowledge of our scripture; it doesn’t do any good argue with an atheist who can’t even accept your axioms as truth.
But love and kindness? Charity? The Kingdom is like the mustard.
A mission tactic for small church pastors: Do you want to reach the neighborhood atheist? Ask him if you can borrow his pickup to make Christmas grocery deliveries to needy families. Then ask him, would he please drive the truck? Then ask him, will he help carry the groceries in the homes of the needy and put them on the kitchen table. Buy the gas and the groceries. Don’t ever say “Jesus” to him. Don’t bother him about it at all. Let the Holy Spirit take care of that.
So, the “sole concern,” the relevant evidence at your final judgment, will in fact be your efforts to make disciples through the charity that you have shown your fellow human beings, and especially to those who are “the least among” us. Perhaps Pastor Olsen should have spoken kindly and charitably to Franklin Graham? Maybe, but Graham is a far cry from the “least among us.” He is a powerful force in the world. He counsels directly with the most powerful politicians in the world. He claims to preach the Gospel but Christian ears yolked by the Holy Spirit cannot comprehend the belligerence that he manifests towards others as the charity, kindness, compassion, love to which we are bound.
If you hear sarcasm or disrespect in Pastor Olsen’s words, it is probably because he has restrained himself from passing judgment on Graham, on Trump, and on so much of the fundamentalism that passes itself off as the Church today. God will be their judge, but Christianity has an institutional memory. We have been around for a long time now. For example, when we pause to recall our history, we remember Nero, who used us for living torches to light his orgies. Too many seculars have compared Trump to Hitler and the other fascists of the early Twentieth Century, but Christians recognize him for the spirit and image of Nero. Study this passage: Let everyone who understands “calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person. Its number is six hundred sixty-six.” Rev. 13:18. (The oldest versions of the Book of Revelations have “616” as the number of the beast, but both 666 and 616 transliterate from Greek to spellings of Nero (“Nero Ceasar” and “Neron Caesar” respectively).)
So, sarcasm? Disrespect? The secular world keeps talking about the strength of our American institutions, and I admit that in addition to being a Christian, I adhere to the American Civic Religion (though I don’t know that I’m worthy of calling myself a Patriot). There is a big difference (I pray that there remains a difference) between the Imperium that replaced the Roman Republic and the United States. I pray that our American institutions are strong enough to withstand the assault they are currently under.
We have faced antichrist before. We will face him again, and again and again. But we are promised that Jesus will be with us until the end of the ages. John encourages us to keep the faith. Christ will triumph in the end. But when I see Nero on CNN, I am sickened. Will we have to face tribulation with our own children under our eyes? Will we keep the faith? We can pray only that God will give us the strength to endure, and the strength to persevere.
Sarcasm? Disrespect? In the face of the government foisted upon us, and its false prophets? If necessary, maybe I will be able to sing gentle hymns of praise when the time comes. But right now I am reminding myself that He did not call an army of angels to rescue Him from the cross. I am reminding myself that the Zealots, the assassins were on the wrong side of history. So, I’ll give Pastor Olsen a pass on any “disrespect” he may have exhibited in his good and proper admonition to one who bills himself as an evangelist.
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That pastor said it very eloquently and with the respect that was deserved. Perfect!!!!!
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The arrogant writer has no courage. Why didn’t he sign his work. I wish I knew it was anonymous before I started reading as I would not have wasted my time.
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It’s not anonymous. He is the pastor of this blog. Look under about us.
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well said! I heard the tone also and just wondered if he is really a pastor, even his language is questionable. Jane
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Pastor Peter Olsen. It’s his blog. Not too difficult to locate. He wasn’t hiding anything…
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Laura, this is his blog. He’s the pastor for this church. 1 Corinthians 13:1
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Why do you consider him arrogant?
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This is NOT an anonymous letter. He did sign his work. This is Reverend Peter Olsen’s own blog. You need to open your eyes and open your mind and open your heart. Reverend Olsen is a true Christian who really understands how God expects us to behave in this world and how we should treat each other.
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Sounds like this person needs an attitude check . Shame on this person . It sounds like judgement on Franklin .I find as a christian very offensive .No one should waste their time reading this like I did .Why did they not give their real name ? What are they affaid of ?😕
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I don’t think he’s afraid. This is Pastor Olsen. It’s his blog. It’s his real name.
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This has to be the best letter I’ve ever read. Thanks Peter.
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I am a Christian and I would like to know what you find offensive, to me Franklin did indeed try to give the impression he has a divine connection.
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Brian Castelli, Thank you for your excellent response to this letter. You said exactly what I was thinking and feeling yet you expressed it much better than I could!
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Actually at the last judgment, all he wants to know is who you call Lord, you don’t ascend based on your good works. Which is believe Rev Graham knows already.
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Haha. You know this with certainty? If many believe like you, I will finally understand why many of those who profess to be Christian do such selfish, judgemental and antisocial things.
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We don’t ascend based on our good works?? What on earth do you think we are here for? What do you think Jesus spent his short life doing? What do you think a miracle is? The motto of our local police force is “Deeds Speak.” And that motto is my own personal belief. It’s what we do in this world that matters and it is by our deeds that we will be measured when the time comes.
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“Deeds speak” is a good motto, but salvation is not the product of our good works. Lutherans say “sole fide,” by faith alone. I prefer “by grace alone,” and it is a doctrine to which I subscribe, but it is a dangerous doctrine. I am concerned that too many think that by calling “Lord! Lord!” they are saved. It’s not enough to join the club, recite a magic formula and claim you’re doing it in Jesus’s name. I heard a Methodist minister mumble once under his breath that he hoped a particular Baptist friend wasn’t going to spend too much time in heaven angry about all the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and others he’s going to run into up there.
We do not, however, earn our salvation through our good deeds. We do our good deeds because Grace enables us to do so. Here’s some Wesleyan theology on how we’re saved:
(1) Prevenient grace is the grace that goes before salvation and it is prevenient grace inspires good. There is no good in the world that is not the gift of Christ through His prevenient grace. Scientists will ask us not to claim that prevenient grace is a feature of nature, but it’s like a feature of nature, like light and gravity. Prevenient grace is there in the world, the free gift of Christ, waiting for us to do something with it.
(2) Justifying grace is the grace that, as the name says, justifies. It is the source of your salvation. I’m not quite a universalist, but justification is as easy as falling off a log. It occurs when you are convicted by the Holy Spirit that good is in fact good, and, through the prevenient grace of Christ, rather than fight that conviction, you undertake an effort to devote your life to doing good, or collaborating with the goodness of Christ’s prevenient grace. Is there anybody who undertakes to do evil on purpose? So, even people who don’t do good can be saved. If they recognize their wrongdoing as wrong, sincerely desire to do good rather than the wrong they’ve done, and make an effort to collaborate with goodness in the future, they’re saved. Salvation is more about getting out of the way of what should happen. (You may be familiar with the terms repentance and confession?) Who doesn’t do this, informally at least, on a daily basis, though I allow that there may be some people who intentionally refuse to see their own faults.
(3) Sanctifying grace is where the “holiness” in Holiness comes from. The basic idea is that the more you try to do good, the more you try to collaborate with the operation of Christ’s prevenient grace in the world, then through the operation of sanctifying grace, the better you get at doing good. And the Wesleyans, the Holiness Churches, believe that it is not impossible for a human being to reach the point where he or she is able to do only that which is good. (Maybe some of us believe that. I’m not sure if I believe it or not, but I think it is a worthy goal.) Such people are said to have gone on to perfection. Wesley didn’t claim to be a person who had gone on to perfection, and to my knowledge, no one has ever met any such person other than the Savior himself. But in Wesleyan theology, it is considered a possibility.
So, it is not your salvation that you earn through good works. Maybe you are earning the holiness towards which you are progressing through your good works, but even those good works are enabled through grace.
I heard another Wesleyan minister say once that we don’t earn our way into heaven, but it better look like we’re trying to.
(BTW: Good works = feed the hungry, heal the sick, clothe the poor, comfort the widows and orphans.)
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I think some people have missed the point. There is no disrespect here but it is pointing out the amount shown by Frank.
Perhaps those who find this so offensive, missed the part about what being a true Christian entails. Perhaps those who have taken offence, belong to Franks church.
Perhaps if more people followed the Bible they would remember that Jesus was humble and wanted us to be in order to understand the plight of those in need.
Unfortunately, those humble people who follow Franks lead are not the ones that are living as god wanted us to. How many actually go out and help those less fortunate.
Perhaps you should all put your effort into helping other’s. When was the last time you fed those less fortunate, clothed those without clothes, housed those without homes. Have you ever even met anyone in these situations.
Do you support a man who grooes women and cannot see past his own ego.
How about taking up the challenge to personally make a difference in someone who is less fortunates, life.
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Thank you.
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Correct
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Pastor to pastor?
Well, either way, a person can have an opinion – right or wrong.
PS.
In response to the responders:
There are few who help the needy more than ‘Frank’ and as far as persecution is concerned; Christianity is hands down the most persecuted religion world wide and it is significantly increasing in the USA.
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The cognitive dissonance in these comments is so alarming. I follow at least half a dozen feminist blogs, and twice as many pro-gmo, pro-vaccine, pro-science, et. al. blogs, and I have never seen so many chapped asses in one comment section. Well done Peter. When the people that most need to hear your message stick their fingers in their ears and scream “Nuh uh, you are!” Is when you know you’ve hit on some serious truth. Respect, sir.
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thank you..such an excellent letter and so many awful comments..i thought i was the only one who agreed
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thumbs up and spot on.
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Indeed! This letter is an answer to my prayer. Thank You Lord! The truth shall set us free.
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ditto
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Re: Pastor Peter’s “Open letter to Franklin Graham from the Small Church Pastor” of which I am also one of that same group of “Small Church Pastors”.
Pastor “Peter” has brought up some interesting, thought provoking and challenging concepts, which I think we all as Christians need to stop and consider with the present reality of the world in which we live today. Whether we are involved in a small church or a large church is not the issue, the issue is “How do we act towards our fellow man and what drives us to act in the way we do towards our fellow man”.
It sort of gets back to the question that a man called Francis Schafer once posed; “How do we then live?” or in other words, “Our lifestyle before our fellow man as “born again – spiritually regenerated Christians”.
I trust that Pastor Peter is not inferring in his letter that our lifestyle as Christians will determine our eternal destiny, when our lifestyle is how we should live as Christians, if we are going to be true spiritual lights to the unbelieving world in which we are part of as true “spirit indwelt” followers of Christ. Brother Peter in his letter seems to be inferring that our godly and compassionate lifestyle has a bearing on our eternal destiny or salvation… I hope that is not what he is really inferring!
My opinion regarding the issue of President Trump is that it would appear that he generally stands for a more biblical position on many important issues such as: Rejection of same sex marriage, Rejection of abortion, Israel and it’s future, Better work and job opportunities for the average worker in the US, Less media manipulation of society, etc. However his policy on medical support for the 20 million citizens does not seem to show the compassion that he often states that he has for the disadvantaged classes.
Overall Trump seems to for the above reasons to be a better man for the job than his predecessor or Mrs Clinton, even though he shows no evidence whatsoever of any real Christian faith, but nor did the other two mentioned people for that matter. I see him more as a modern day King Nebuchadnezzar who is very favourable to God’s people and Christian values, thereby allowing more freedom for Godly restraints on society and freedom for the gospel to be shared.
The challenge to me from Brother Peter’s letter is; How do we treat homosexuals, lesbians and Muslims etc in our dealings with them as Christians. I am inclined to think that we as Christians tend to treat them more harshly and judgementally than we should and as a result they are put offside rather than draw them to seeing their need of a personal relationship with God through Christ.
The Lord Jesus didn’t command us to go out and judge the world around us for their sinful lifestyles, etc. He even said of himself “I have come not to judge but to save”. What right do we have to go further than our Master and Lord, in this area of our life here on earth?
How much do we show the compassion and love of Christ to those we find objectionable to us, by their lifestyles eg. Homosexuals, Lesbians, Drug Addicts, Drunkards, etc and or people of different coloured skin, ethnicity, religious backgrounds such as mainly Muslim but also many others.
How did the Lord Jesus treat the Samaritan woman He met at the well? How did He handle the woman caught in adultery? He didn’t condemn her like many well meaning Christians would today, but told her to go and sin no more after He had challenged the religious Jews to start throwing stones at her if they were without sin. Of course they all walked away..
So maybe we would be much wiser to take this same approach when dealing with Homosexuals, Lesbians, Drug Addicts, Drunkards, etc and also those of different religious backgrounds.
As far as the couple who made a stand against condoning the marriage of the homosexual couple by refusing to bake a cake for their “wedding” even though I have admired the stand they made on this issue I now after reading Brother Peter’s letter am inclined to go along with the view he has expressed, basically that it is not for us as Christians to break this newly instituted law by discriminating against them because of our Christian convictions concerning their lifestyle and thereby refusing to bake and sell a wedding cake to them even though that is their business to bake and sell cakes to the public. The question arises then; would we bake and sell wedding cakes to Muslims say, or a convicted murderer say who has just been released from jail, or a “bikey” say, or a black man marrying a white woman say? Doesn’t it get back to the question of us putting ourselves in the seat of judgement on the lifestyle of these people that we find objectionable to us, rather than realizing that it is not our right to force our good Christian lifestyle and convictions on others, but show them by example the Jesus way of life. Also further questions arise here such as: Would we sell them a house to live in after they married? Or would we sell them a car? Or would we be willing to serve them in our restaurant?
Where do you start and where do you stop? Would we let them enter our Church and come to services at our Church??
I trust that we can all sit down and reflect on these issues that we are now being increasingly faced with in the world we live in today..
May it be that the love of Christ and the compassion of Christ coming through each of us as God’s ambassadors here on earth today, will win some people over to seeing their need for God’s mercy and forgiveness and their need of Christ.
Pastor Lance Palmer,
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Very good pastor,
Of course , we are saved by grace and not works. Ephesians 2:8-9. We do tend to be self righteous violating Matthew 7:5. God is sovereign and he did know Trump was to be President. His reason is unknow to us for His ways are greater than our ways. Isaih 55:8-11.
Secular society has presented the Church of Christ with issues we could not have seen just a few years ago and it will be more challenging in the future. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves. Mark 12:31.I would pray we would love all and let God use us to bring them to him. Without Him we can do nothing. Matthew 15:5
Yours in Christ ,
Bill Billips
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I think I would learn from being in your congregation. I appreciate the tone, impactful without all the shaming.
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Very well spoken thank you we need Jesus he is the judge just like court only there will be his kingdom to enter amd his purify will to be entering as we follow repent on a daily bases if we are in need cause only those who truly do the honest will of Christ will enter not false or unrepentive people !?? Is this not where Jesus says depart from me l never knew you??!
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Thank you Pastor Palmer. I believe you have found the truth to the Good News.
Kurt King
A fellow believer.
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For such an “open letter” it is only signed “Peter.” I can pen a letter too and pretend I am a pastor. For those of you who have been turned off by “religion,” and walked away from the church, I understand why religion has turned you away from Christ. Religion places unreasonable and unjustifiable burdens on people. The last thing you want to be told when you go to church is that you aren’t good enough, your hair is too long, that drinking is a sin, that your dress is too short, that you need to be doing this or that to be good, that you need to contribute this amount of money. But understand this point. Jesus was also against “religion” also and made it clear that “religion” is not what He is about but about loving Him and others. Christ went after the religious community of the day, the Pharisees, who placed unreasonable rules and burdens on the Jewish people. Christianity is not a religion. It is a daily walk with Christ. It is a fellowship that helps you through the good and bad times. Christ will change you as He has transformed so many people. Last thing, if there was a body in the tomb that Sunday morning two thousand plus years ago Christianity would have died out very quickly and not spread throughout the world The empty tomb, by far, is the single most important event that has ever occurred.
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This is what Jesus had to say about the religious leaders of his time. It reminds me a lot of the televangelists of our day, and Rev Franklin Graham in particular…
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Matthew 23:15
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The first part of your response makes no sense. And for the truth Jesus sid not go after “anyone” the Saanhedrine,Court “Pharisees and the “Religious Jews” was jealous and went after Jesus. Jesus s just simply spoke the truth to them and to “All”. He was the Salvation…The last part of your reply You actually stated what the writer said and you are correct…Again the Tomb was empty…Our Salvation was the beginning of “Christianty”.
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Pastor Peter’s bio and brief resume are right here on his blog page, so this was not anonymous. Peter has bona fides. His message seems forthright and styled in a tone to reflect the tone he heard from Franklin Graham’s presumptuous assumptions that he can speak for all American Christian pastors. And surely it was clear that Peter was responding to the similar condescending tone of Franklin himself.
Billy Graham maintained a pastoral stance in regard to Presidents, responding any time he was called, even to a pagan sinner like Richard Nixon, without ever identifying himself with any party or policy. He guarded his identity as a messenger of Christ. I met Billy personally, and in all I knew about him I never perceived he ever spoke in a dismissive or condescending tone.
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Reblogged this on tpmcocreator.
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What is there to object to in this commentary? Peter, if I may call you that, this is well written and well conceived. Your references and support material are also appropriate. Thank you for this post.
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Thank you so much for posting this letter to Franklin Graham. I find him and many evangelical ministers preaching against much of what Jesus believed in and taught. And then I watch as Pope Francis follows in the footsteps of Jesus and gets criticized. God Bless you for this wonderful open letter.
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Great! Best one yet! Keep them coming!
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I think those who are offended by this letter need to go back and read through Jesus’ dealings with the Pharisees and Sadducees. He frequently used sharp sarcasm to get his point across to them.
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The difference is that Jesus did not create a straw man to tear down as the author of this letter does. Jesus always told the truth. This author misrepresents the facts of the situation in order to demean a fellow believer.
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Pete Christ also stated as quoted in the Bible, you without sin cast the first rock. As I read your letter it seemed u may be a little on the jealous side. Even a man of the cloth like yourself as probably committed at least one little sin.
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I don’t understand why is it so important to deny a gay couple a wedding cake, yet it’s okay to have voted for Trump. Despite his views on woman, Mexican, making fun of the a disable person, minorities, infidelities, numerous marriages,and shady business practices, the Bible condemns them all equally. Why are you so concerned with a fetus before it is born, then take away school lunches, support wars, death penalty, and even take away meals on wheels if you are prolife then why stop after birth because this is what is happening today with this administration. I will never understand how can a Christian could have voted for this man. The only reason I see is that you hated them more then you loved your Christian convictions and beliefs.
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A fetus is what you once were. It is not a piece of the woman. It is a separate, distinct, human life, with its own body, its own DNA and its own thoughts. It can feel pain that the mother can not feel. It has an inalienable right to life. The word “fetus” is a Latin word that simply means “young child”! And it is what it is.
You will recall that there was a time in the history of the USA when African Americans were not regarded as fully human. There was even a Supreme Court ruling (Dred Scott) which (inaccurately) confirmed this into legal standing. The KKK (a group started by disgruntled Democrats, was founded to re-establish the legality of slavery. People then were in denial about the humanity of these slaves just as many people are today about the full humanity of the unborn child. And these precious children are innocent in the eyes of God. To kill them is to shed innocent blood. And God hates the shedding of innocent blood.
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To our hateful, fearful and benighted brethren…. Guess we won’t see you up in heaven on judgement day… What if there were angels in disguise meant to test your intolerance of other of Gods children? Seems you might fail that test! Everyone on this planet has been created by Almighty God, and it is solely in His divine and unerring judgement that we should love another as one mortal family. You can hate on… God gave you that free will prerogative … But hate at your own mortal souls peril. I will pray for your hearts to turn in time and love everyone as Jesus loves us.
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It is good to remember that the early Christians (who were fed to the lions by the Roman Emperors because they refused to say, as the law required, that “Caesar is Lord”), were called “haters of humanity” by these Roman rulers.
In reality, to say that homosexuality is a sin, and to oppose so-called homosexual marriage does not imply any hatred at all. It merely means to believe what the Word of God teaches. One can love a homosexual, just as one can love anyone else. But this does not mean we have to endorse what he/she is doing.
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Now I know why all you small church pastors who are preaching in a “church” that was established in the 1800’s, still has only 30 or 40 people attending. You don’t preach to Bible because you don’t have a clue what it says. Are you going to be surprised when all you false teachers stand with the goats on judgment day and the Lord says to you, “I never knew you.” By the way, that’s in the Bible!
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What a Godly, proud, “small-church” preacher! Just busting a gut to shame another.
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The letter is neither anonymous nor unsigned. It’s on Rev. Peter Olson’s blog, along with Rev. Olson’s bio and church info.
Thank you, Peter. I appreciate your use of scriptures to counter Frank’s practices and teachings.
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This is so timely
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Oh FOR GOD’s SAKE people!!! Just treat people kindly, with respect, and don’t push your views and expectations on them, and everything will be just fine. This holier than thou shit has got to stop! Just be kind. Who the hell cares if he signed his letter??? He is right, and that is the point. Hiding one’s bigotry and hate behind a “Christian” moniker is what is cowardly. Be kind. Be respectful. Be cheerful. Just be a human.
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Actually he is not right. He is wrong. He has misrepresented the facts of the case to set up a straw man in order to malign a fellow Minister of the Gospel. How is that being kind, respectful and cheerful?
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As Christians, perhaps we need to preach at each other less and listen more. These comments read like essays.
I will prayerfully consider this rebuke. Peter has made some very Godly points that cannot be ignored.
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This letter expresses my views. While some are offended by its “tone”, I have felt offended by Mr. Graham’s attitude toward speaking for all believers, and taking a multimillion dollar salary from his organizations, one of which is supposedly focused on world poverty.
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Thank you so much, Pastor Lance Palmer. So many claim they are Christian or religious but then do something that contradicts what they claim. So, again, thank you for your words. Very well thought out and very well received.
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Well, Reverend Peter, Donald Trump himself couldn’t have said it better. Congratulations.
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Mr.Trump needs to repent if hes going to follow Christ as we all need to daily and God will lift up and take down anyone in this world in his timing so l say we forgive pray for the coming of Christ…Love one another as Christ loves us forgive the ones who dispitefully use us and say all kinds of evil against us and thank Jesus we can touch one heart or a zillion if God makes that way and support Mr.Graham Franklin… frankly and pray for the One in Authority to run the USA and our Canada and the rest of this upside down world the best he can!!! Yesterday is gone so are the sins only God can cleanse the past of Mr.Trump and us all so if you want my Hearts understanding in Jesus serve your church as best you can bless them and bless Mr.Grahams church cause we all should want none to go to Hell for our selfish thinking and be one with each other in Christs mighty and Powerful Name PRAY AND STAY IN CHRISTS WAY NOT OURS@! JESUS IS KING not us !!
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I found your ‘open’ letter to be quite disrespectful, pompous, and foolish. Do you want a pat on the back? Who does this letter benefit? You? Are you behaving ‘Christ’ like in your banter? Do you think it’s pleasing to God? Ever heard of Him? You know Jesus? There’s a couple of verses in the Bible that I’m assuming you’ve read since you are a pastor and all,
2 Timothy 4:3-5. – watch out pastor, and that’s what I’ll call you, watch that the grave sin of pride doesn’t consume you. For good deeds won’t get you to heaven, and insulting God or your fellow clergy men with a sense of ‘self-righteousness’ won’t either. And cherry picking the warm and fuzzy parts of the bible that you accept are not all of what God calls you to teach. If you were my pastor, I’d be ashamed and most assuredly would find another church after such judgement on your fellow clergyman. Foolishness causes folly and it appears you have forgotten your first love.
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Amen. This is a Philadelphian Christian (Peter) using wit and wisdom to respond to an Ephesian Christian (Frank), who refuses to recognize the validity of the Philadelphian. Jesus was quite supportive of the Philadelphian, and we do exist. We used to be quite prevalent in America. Now we barely know who we are. But we are here. Peace in Christ, Steven
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What you see as “wit and humor, others see as an underhanded way of maligning a fellow minister of the Gospel. If the author had used the Biblical method of resolving disputes (Matthew 18) and had not misrepresented the facts of the legal case in question, the tone of the letter would not have created such misunderstanding and animosity!
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Wow all that and no reference to scripture!
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Amen. This is a Philadelphian Christian Peter using scripture, wit, and wisdom to publicly rebuke an Ephesian Christian Frank who refuses to recognize the existance of the Philadelphian. Jesus was quite supportive of the Philadelphian, Philadelphians do exist, they are different from Ephesians, they were once numerous in America, as Pennsylvania began as an entire colony of them. I see Peter as my brother in Christ, and fear that Franklin has gone the way of the Liodician. The Holy Spirit shines a light. Peter is shining a light on a leader who may be leading a lot of people to Liodicia. Wouldn’t Jesus himself say something, and give you something to think about? Thank you, Peter.
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Reblogged this on Gil Gonzalez and commented:
This is exceptional.
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Great letter, thanks.
I’ve reblogged it here:
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I feel sad for you, pastor Peter…because of how SMALL your outlook is on the over all picture of the political world around us.
Let me assure you…that if I could have my choice for some one OTHER than President Trump…Or of the other choice, Hillary from Hell…then there may have Bern a different President in the WHITE HOUSE.
As it is…you and I ought to be grateful for the fact that Trump wno…and NOT the wicked one representing the Opposition.
Keep praying (including praying for Franklin Graham)
M Engelman
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Mate, don’t forget to take your pills tomorrow will you
What a load of dribble
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Pastor to pastor?
Well, either way, a person can have an opinion – right or wrong.
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Totally awesome reply and done in the Name Of Jesus!
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Time does not permit me to respond to this fellow pastor in any depth. But for anyone who doubts that religious liberty in America is under attack, I would simply point to UNDENIABLE: The Survey of Hostility to Religion in America. This 376-page document is a long list of formal attacks on religious practices that have undergirded America for centuries. It offers irrefutable evidence of the growing crisis in four key areas:
* The Public Arena (government, public places, and the workplace)
* Education
* Religious Institutions
* The U.S. Military (active and retired)
Prayer and skillful legal strategy can save religious liberty. But more Americans must awaken to the crisis before it is too late. This is not some fringe essay. This annual report is is published by First Liberty Institute (formerly Liberty Institute) the nation’s largest legal organization dedicated solely to protecting religious liberty for all in America.
You can download a copy of Undeniable… in either PDF or ePub version at https://firstliberty.org/undeniable/
~ Pastor Mark Curts
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Thanks pastor Mark. God bless you!
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I am not a church goer, in fact I do not believe the bible any more than you do, but I did graduate from a Bible School, and I don’t for one minute believe that Peter Olsen (aka Pastor Olsen) wrote his open letter as a pastor, but as a Liberal who is hiding behind well chosen verses taken out of context to spread the Liberal agenda. Pastor Olsen’s crying was not actually directed at the Reverend Franklin Graham, he simply used the Famous name to gain audience for his Liberal, Socialist rantings. For misusing and taking out of context the bible to try and attack both the American way of life, and the teachings of a gifted minister, I say Shame on You, Pastor Olsen.
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If you look in the preamble to the US Constitution, you will find Matt. 25 in that ‘promote the general Welfare’ bit. We aren’t a ‘Christian’ nation, per se, but our Constitution was in a sense written to create a perfect ruler, and what better than a ruler than one who provides and cares for all his subjects without discrimination or favor?
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If youu are a Conservative Christian, you are not a Christian. Franklin Graham is not a Christian, Peter Olsen is.
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THANKS PASTOR PETER FOR YOUR “OPEN LETTER TO REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM.”
WELL DONE PASTOR PETER.
2CO. 5:10 SAID, “FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST, THAT EACH ONE.MAY RECEIVE THE THINGS DONE IN THE BODY ACCORDING TO WHAT HE HAS DONE,WHETHER GOOD OR BAD.”
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Thank you very much, Peter, from a small town, small church-goer
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Amen
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I personally wonder how a letter to Franklin Graham got out to the public like this. I can’t imagine Franklin would have released a letter like this out to the public. I would have to question if Peter is actually a Pastor based on the tone in which this letter is written but if you are this is what I would like to say to you. From the first paragraph of this letter even though it seemed positive it had a tinge of resentment ringing though and I thought oh no what is to come as I read on with a sense of caution. There seem to be a spirit of resentment even though thanking Franklin Graham for coming to his small town. Then here it comes he lets it all pour out, the resentment and critical spirit maybe possible anger as it appears he feels he is not being used in a bigger way by God. What I really want to say about this letter is this. Mr. Peter – How long does it take for someone to be forgiven by God? How long from the time we accept Jesus that what was old becomes new again? Is it seconds, hours, days or weeks or it is possible years? Which is the time frame Pastor Peter (?) that we are cleansed from our sins and are free to walk free from the chains of sin that bind us to live a victorious life in Jesus Christ our Lord? I know when I accepted Jesus into my heart I was told I am a new creation, your starting life fresh with a clean state. Was I being lied to by Pastors and fellow Christians? If not a lie then why is it not true for Donald Trump? The grabbing conversation Trump had with another male on the bus took place about 12 years ago. Pretty sure he wasn’t a Christian although he had some sort of a church up bringing. In my life time I have had men say and do much worse to me and some of them are Christian now. What should I do about that? Should I keep throwing it their faces look what you did to me how can Jesus forgive you? Should I go tell their wives and their children and see how much damage I can do to them and make them all suffer for what their fathers did to me? Never let them forget their past seems to be the message you are sending out. Ugly fat pig was also aimed at someone he had a rivalry with in the TV business about six or seven years ago. Should a man of Donald Trump’s statue have engaged in such a child like fight with the women? No of course not , it was embarrassing to see a grown successful business man with such a beautiful family behave that way but again I never heard him profess his devotion to God in that time. One thing that did become clear during that time is that Donald Trump showed his weak side. He fights like a child and that is too bad, sad and unfortunate as it certainly isn’t becoming of him. Let’s mention his other large as life fault; Mr. Trump’s ego. Yes it’s huge in Donald Trump’s mind everything is big and best. It is a shame really. But on the other hand what does our Father use for his Glory. Isn’t it most often our weaknesses our shortcomings? Peter have you never before been told by your loved ones not to worry that your weakness can also be your strongest strength that God can use anything in your life. That is how I see Donald Trump I see him flawed and vulnerable, I see him generous and kind with an obvious mean streak, incredible smart and possibly gifted! All these things that make up Donald Trump is able to be used by God if God so chooses. Hopefully Mr. Trump repented of his sins as it as been said more then once that he did accept Jesus into his heart. On the other hand Christian or not why would any Christian be putting up a fuss against a President who is fighting for freedom of religion, free speech and safer borders? No President is perfect I can’t argue that but who do you know that is perfect? I don’t know my bible well but didn’t God use at least two Kings who were not believers and didn’t all King’s who were Christians back slide or fall away during their Kingship? Are you perfect? Ask yourself what you have been forgiven for that you don’t’ think is as bad as Donald Trump’s behavior? What’s in your past that you would not want thrown in your face repeatedly as you try to move on with your life? You wrote this in your letter to Franklin Graham – The freedom to call your opponents “idiots,” “losers,” “liars” and “frauds”? The freedom to slander people with accusations of criminal conduct based on absolutely no evidence? By my count, the above violate at least four of the Ten Commandments (you will find those in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy-both in the Bible). If Donald Trump is the champion of American Christianity, God save it from its enemies! Tell me Peter I know I am touching here on the small stuff but what is Mr. Trump suppose to say when he hears that his opponent received questions ahead of the debate so she can come off sounding better prepared then him. Would you say nothing? Is he suppose to say nothing when the media decided to make it look to the world that he made fun of a disabled man on national TV. The media didn’t care about their fellow journalist they only cared that they could spin a story to spread hate for Trump. Just to comment on a few other things you mentioned in your letter … You said, “God doesn’t give a flying fruitcake if we deprive twenty-million people, most of them poor, of access to health care.” I say, “Give your President a chance to work this part out, it is not easy putting health care plan together but one thing is clear is that he wants good health care for all”. You said, “Nor is God particularly concerned about how men treat women in the workplace,” I say, do your research and see that Donald Trump was probably the first or one of the first to treat women with respect and equal pay or more in the work place”. You said, “how people of color are treated in the real estate market,” I say,” you might be referring to a story when he was President of his Dads company and they were being sued for not renting to people of color, so were many other real estate companies and the Trump family were upset by that and tried to fight it in court. Was it true I have no idea but I would suspect some of it might be true because most real estate people are very choosy if they can about the people who rent their apartments no matter their skin color but it has more to do with if they think the person will be good about paying rent and not destroying the place. Also I have heard more then once that Mr. Trump was never called a racist before running for President just ask all the people of different color and nationalities who have worked for him.” You said,” how the hungry and homeless are cared for (or not), “I say,” I assume your not aware of the homeless women that Mr. Trump as helped out with a place to stay and food all for free for many years. Funny how for an ego as Big as Mr. Trump’s you rarely hear him bragging about all the generous things he does for people. I have no doubt as time goes and these issues are crossing his desk he will do his best to make changes in this area to. You said,” but God flips out if we bake a cake for a same sex couple to celebrate their wedding? I say, “ The bakers made a decision out of their desire to follow God , right or wrong I don’t know , if it was a mistake it is their mistake and let’s pray for them that God’s will be done in and through them as well as ourselves. It is not easy sometimes knowing when to take a stand or not take a stand. Everyone has different ideas about it and different convictions. Doesn’t mean their convictions are right but it is theirs for now and it’s the choice they made, maybe their views on that will change and they will see it your way but for now let’s just try and support them in prayer. You also asked in your letter to Franklin = “How did he know God put Donald Trump in the White House and where did he get the information from”. You said, “I have to hand it to you, Frank, you sure do have the connections.” I ask you don’t we all have connections to God in that way? I mean sure God doesn’t tell us all everything but the same God that speaks to Franklin is the same God that speaks to all of us. I don’t know if God told Franklin right out that Trump would be President but I do know that I have secretly waited about 20 years to see if this day would happen because I believed God put it in my heart that one day Donald Trump would be President. Just like you seem to think your small town pastor so God doesn’t speak to you, will I am small town girl with a heart for God with no big or special job either. Our God is the same yesterday today and forever and I believe He still speaks to us through his Word and the Holy Spirit our comforter and Teacher. “You said,” I have to be honest with you, Frank. I’m just not seeing it. Not in the Bible, not in the realm of rational common sense.” I say, “There are so many things I don’t see clearly when it comes to God’s word and God’s people. Sometimes I wonder if we are reading the same bible. All I know is Jesus said we are to take up our cross and follow Him. Mathew 16:24!
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Incredibly thoughtful, powerful and beautiful….
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A Facebook friend of mine posted a link to this blog. This was my response to him. I am copying it here:
The small church pastor needs to read the first amendment to the US Constitution: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Any baker refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding is not discriminating against homosexuals. He or she is exercising his or her rights under the “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” clause above. I don’t know whether or not I agree with their decision. Because I believe in the first amendment, I stand with them.
While I’m here, I’m going to point out something important. Notice that this amendment does not say “separation of church and state.” You will not find the words SEPARATE or CHURCH in the entire text of the constitution.
I also have to say that I found it very disrespectful of the author to call William Franklin Graham III “Frank” when he did not sign his letter as Pete – but as Peter.
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Reblogged this on The Next 8 Years and commented:
I started writing an open letter to Franklin Graham. Then I decided to google “open letter to Franklin Graham”, and saw that someone had already written exactly what I wanted to say.
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Matthew 25:31-46
New International Version (NIV)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Enough said.
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And this is exactly what Franklin Graham and Samaritan’s Purse have been doing!
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Graham is a false prophet, and clearly not a Christian or christian. Like some others of his ilk, he is a mammon-worshipper, and just wants power. There is no “good” in him, and he has turned his “religion” into a weapon with which to judge, and hurt others. I found this letter to be a rather gentle and genteel way of calling out a man who actually does the Devil’s work. Bravo!
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Peter, I would say thank you for your letter.
I don’t find it disrespectful or distasteful in any way. It is so true that so many so called Christians continue to place other people into categories that are looked down upon and constantly verbally abuse and discriminate these people openly. I was a pastor of a charismatic church for many years and always preached a gospel of love and forgiveness. I witnessed so much fear based theology, but my God does not give me a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power and a sound mind.
Whatever our theological understanding of same sex couples is irrelevant to me. This can be debated for eternity. What maters is that God is a God of love and we are commanded to love and not hate.
Thanks again Peter. Peace and Blessings.
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What makes you so convinced that the bakers in question (and Franklin Graham) hates anyone? They were not responding out of hatred to this couple. They were simply refusing to participate in an event which they regarded as a violation — indeed a desecration — of what is sacred. It is called “Holy matrimony” for a reason. And the same Bible that tells us to love one another also tells us to hate that which is evil. Somehow you, and the author of this piece, have not managed to figure out this distinction.
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This is pathetic and extremely disrespectful. Not to mention this jerk is a gutless pansy. Probably wears lace garters to preach in. If this had been my Pastor, I’d recommend his resigning. Poor judgement well below his office.
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I am so relieved to read Pastor Peter’s letter. I feel like someone put into words the thoughts and feelings I have had about Reverend Graham. Peter is much more classy in his writings than I could be. Along with alot of things right now I am saddened by Rev Grahams view of the world. Thank you again I feel so much better now.
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“At the last judgement, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone what their sexual history or orientation” is… Are you sure about that Peter? Because my bible says in
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
And when do you inherit the Kingdom of God? Judgement Day.
Sorry Peter you’re wrong.
If we’re going to have laws that Christian bakers have to bake a gay couple a wedding cake, I think we should at least be fair and for some Muslims to bake cakes celebrating Jesus Christ and gay marriages as well. Oh wait, no one cares about THAT!
I do agree with many of the points the author makes, but this one is clearly off the mark. I for one, love that Trump is standing up for religious freedom, and it’s something that we should all be fighting for. That is, unless you want to be under sharia law in a few years.
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Thanks for standing up for the truth, Sung Yun Lee! God bless you!
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we only see this as disrespectful, when we worship other men. Thos letter reflects and exposes what is wrong with Sith evangelicals today. The pastor who wrote this does not drink from old wine skins. Bless.
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with evangelicals today, not Sith. typo.
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this letter.
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An absolutely perfect letter and credo . It’s frightening to realize how many people who consider themselves Christian are draw to fools like Franklin Graham. His father must be rolling in his grave, as he really was a Christian. Sadly, the son has been seduced by power and filthy lucre and he drags people down with him.
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Well said Pastor!! If we were supposed to hate gay people you would think it would be in the 10 camandments ?
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Opposing homosexual behavior does not mean hating people who identify as being homosexual. One can oppose smoking and understand the health risks involved yet still love people who smoke. In the same way, we can oppose homosexual behavior because we understand the spiritual (and health) dangers involved. But at the same time we can still love the person who has been involved in this behavior.
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Pastor,
Thank you for writing such an insightful letter. I was taken aback when I read about Rev Grahams endorsement of Mr Trump. He and others need to hear that truth. I see a great lack of the teachings of Jesus in our society as well as our government. I find peace in the fact that ultimately God will prevail. In the meantime I will continue to try to do His work.
John Schmeding
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This is an amazing letter! Thank you, “Peter.” Jesus commanded us to love one another and, sadly, too many of my “Christian” brothers and sisters are too worried about who is sitting next to them in the pew, what they are wearing, what they are doing, or what their politics are…to even begin to love. If my post will generate criticism, I’m happy to receive it…along with the General Assembly of my denomination, PCUSA, Pope Francis, and many others who follow Christ, read the Bible, and do as God commands. Amen!
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Thank you, Peter… spot on. Franklin Graham has to be an embarrassment to Billy.
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Anyone who condones the actions and attitudes of the man currently occupying the White House, and equates him with a champion of Christianity is a hypocrite.
Christianity under attack? If so, it’s from people who think like Frank, and have sold their souls to protect their empires.
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I am astounded by how many people are labeling this post as either anonymous, fake, or written under an alias. How narrow a focus and willful disregard of context does one need to have to not recognize who the author is on a site listed as “revolson.com” and with references to Trinity everywhere? Take ten seconds to look at your digital surroundings, people.
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This is one of the most honest and brave thingd I have seen since the escalator “literally” going to the Bottom..of the societal pit. Thank you Peter for reminding those that need reminding, a true picture of what the good in us already know and act upon! A reminder that it’s the little folks and big that follow morality regardless of religion or lack of. We are all humanity just struggling to make the world a better place. No money, no pipeline, often rare resources helping others in need of help. We are not the greedy and we need no accolades for all actions we take. We do not judge even when words spoken are aggreious or above the law. We give what we can and we do it out of responsibility to humankind! Do Frank, Bake the Cake and stop worshipping false idols to covet the likes of Trump. Pray for forgiveness for yourself (A Man of God), and All people of all nations and religions! Your pious pandering is unforgivable..but we the meak shall still try! And will do it with the true grace of humanity!
This articarticle by Peter is a precious surmon that is a MUST READ!!! Thank you for the share…it is an eye opening letter of what is oh so wrong with some of us…especially those with a pulpit never intended as a “Bully Pulpitof Intolerence/greed/and Ignorance”!
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Doesn’t sound like you believe in forgiveness or grace for those YOU don’t like. Thank goodness you are’t influencing many in YOUR church. People do come to know God later in life and repent. Those of us who have believed and asked forgiveness for our sins at an earlier age should be there for new Christians at any age. We don’t need to keep bringing up their past just like you wouldn’t want people to keep bringing up your sins from the past or present.We need to show grace like Jesus did. I do believe Christians are being persecuted for their beliefs every day. Your simplistic view of what persecution is doesn’t surprise me coming from a pastor who ONLY gets his information from the Bible and doesn’t hear from God in his heart through “talking” to Him in prayer. I’m sorry if you’ve never heard Him speak to you. I thank God for a president who isn’t afraid to pray in public and use God’s name. I believe he loves this country very much and wants to protect it’s citizens. After all that is his job. I believe he loves ALL PEOPLE in this world, but he has to try to protect us from those who seek to kill Christians. I pray that you or your loved ones never have to suffer persecution for your beliefs. I thank God that Franklin Graham has the ability to reach so many people for God..Your political opinion seems to overshadow your belief in God and YOUR LOVE FOR ALL OF GOD’s CHILDREN! You failed to mention abortion. Do you think we should just go along with it because it’s lawful…and “we need to follow the law”.I don’t think God would approve of this law. Do you? Yours in Christ
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This person has no idea what Franklin Graham actually does through his ministry of Samaritan’s purse. Please go to their website to see the help they give to refugees, persecuted Christians, children, and the oppressed. This is a very inaccurate article about an amazing organization.
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Thank you Karen. I have known Franklin for a long time and have worked alongside with Samaritan’s Purse. He certainly does not deserve all the maligning and false allegations being leveled at him on this site.
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This is Peter Olsen’s blog. How can it be considered anonymous?
I would like to know which of Franklin Graham’s articles, sermons or speeches this is in response to — it might help me understand where this is coming from
Like others, I found that although the points are sound, the sarcastic tone weakens Pastor Olsen’s position.
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Thank you for this, I wish I could print it, there are a few not on F/B I would love to send it to.
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Brilliant.
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“And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.”
I contend therefore Franklin is not the enemy.
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PERFECTION!!!!!!
I want to know how to email this pastor iso I can personally thank him for writing a letter that so eloquently states exactly how I feel.
I don’t think anyone could have said it better.
He gave that so-called Christian the amount of respect he deserves.
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Peter, can I call you Peter? … Two wrongs dont make a right. If your brother has failed you then why dont you privately talk to him, pray with him and resolve your differences. You both are workers of the most High God. Using social media for personal smear and attack is not actually spreading the gospel but promoting your legal and religious frameworks. The gospel must be based on the WORD of God and not on corporate christianity and personal opinions. So whether your church is BIG or small doesnt matter! Its NOT your church! Its the BRIDE of CHRIST! Humility my man …Humility! Its the greatest attribute of a powerful worker of Christ! I care a damn about your systems and structures! All I need is someone to show me the path to salvation! I guess we both now need the sinners prayer!
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I love this Pastor!!! God bless & keep him all his days, serving the LORD.
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I agree totally, but we also have to love Donald Trump. If we say we have to show love to all men then that means Donald Trump too. I do not believe he is a good leader, or even a good person, but I pray for him also and I pray for our country everyday.
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I just can’t understand why people were outraged with this letter, but are fine with what Franklin Graham is running around saying?
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As in all things – we all have similar or dissimilar opinions. As a Christian – I have tolerance, but I also have beliefs – just as those that provide lawyers jobs with discrimination cases, etc. As a teacher, friend of many business owners, and a regular day to day person – I feel that might rights include choosing who I serve or not. Is it alright for a shop owner to say I can’t go in if I carry a weapon – with sufficient training? Is it alright for my child to go into a bathroom for women with a man who is in the process of gender changing also in there – I can explain to eternity – but the fact is – it will still be a cultural change that I’m really not ready to begin and shouldn’t have to. My rights end where yours begin – that’s not true. We are all Americans, we strive for all to have Christianity evolve – why does it have to be separate issues. Liberalism is fine except when you start infringing on what I believe too. Why should Conservatives always be the ones that have to ‘accept’ and change their ways because others believe differently. I like Franklin Graham. He has had the ‘guts’ to stand up and say what he thinks is correct. If you disagree – that’s fine – you have your forum right here to speak. I respect that right – you haven’t hurt me by talking and expressing your feelings – BUT if it comes to the fact that you say I have to stop something so you can thwart him from speaking – you then have infringed my rights. I agree with something my Preacher talks about often – if you have a problem – address it with the problem first – have you done this? I would bet, maybe not in person, but by phone or so – (not e-mail: so easy to say stuff when you don’t have a person there to defend themselves or their acts) – that Franklin Graham would address your concerns. You may never agree – but at that point, both sides would have been heard in a personable manner. We all learn through conflict / differences. Try it – I will continue to pray for all of us. God is Good.
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As an ex-evangelical I see Franklin Graham as the very definition of “deplorable.” I thank you for exposing his rants as the anti-Biblical and unChristian fictions they are. He and his power-hungry, unloving ilk are despicable. Though theism has lost its luster to me, Jesus, and what I understand of his teachings and example in the gospels and letters, has not. Thanks for this thoughtful piece.
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You told the truth Pastor Peter. Eloquently, I might add. Trump in the White House is God’s punishment on America, I believe. My prayer is that God will remove him quickly before he destroys America completely & hopefully that the American people have learned a hard lesson. DON’T VOTE FOR UNQUALIFIED people for POTUS with criminal pasts.
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Dear all:
Given the literally thousands of responses I have received to my open letter to Rev. Franklin Graham, I am unable to address each of you separately. So let me address all of you generally.
First, to those of you who have resonated to and expressed appreciation for my critique of Rev. Graham’s Decision America tour and the rhetoric it has spawned, thank you. It was good to be reminded that I am not alone in trying to show the people I am able to reach that Rev. Graham does not speak authoritatively for all Christendom and that his brand of Christianity is not the exclusive model.
Second, to the many persons hurt and alienated by the kind of religion Rev. Graham represents, I welcome your kind words of encouragement to me and urge you to give the church a second look. You won’t find any utopia there. We are communities of sinners that sometimes offend one another, treat each other unkindly and lose sight of our call to be the Body of Christ. But we are committed to endure with one another and believe that by living together with all our faults and rough edges, by learning to forgive and be reconciled to one another, the mind of Christ is formed in us.
Third, I appreciate the affirmation I have received form many of you identifying as atheist, non-theist or agnostic. You give me hope that we can begin recognizing in one another values and aspirations common both to faith and humanism at their very best. I believe, as I hope you do also, that we can be good neighbors, fellow citizens and respectful conversation partners in striving together for the common good.
Fourth, to dispel finally and forever the myth of my anonymity, my full name is Peter A. Olsen. I have the honor of serving Trinity Lutheran Church of Bogota, New Jersey as pastor. If you take the time to go to the menu at the top of my blog and click on “Pastor Olsen” and “Contact us” you can find out the exact location of my church, where I went to seminary, who I married, how many children I have and a good deal more about me than you probably ever wanted to know. It’s been there all the time. “Seek and ye shall find.”
Finally, thanks to those of you who have expressed your strong disagreement. I welcome and respect your opinions. Although I continue to remain committed to the convictions expressed in the substance of my letter, I do so with some qualifications. Several of you have pointed out that I inaccurately identified “Charlotte” as the site of the killings at Mother Emanuel. Of course, the city was Charleston and I have since corrected that error. Thanks to those of you who pointed it out to me and my apologies to the people of Charleston.
Some of you expressed the view that the tone of my letter was disrespectful. As I was writing, I tried to imagine myself sitting across the table from Rev. Graham in my favorite diner and engaging him in a face to face conversation. I wanted my letter to be chatty and informal, not demeaning or disrespectful. Of course, sometimes what we mean to convey in writing communicates something different from what we intend. That appears to have been the case with some of you. I take full responsibility for that and sincerely apologize for the offense.
That said, my letter did not disparage Rev. Graham’s character, denigrate his work or question his motives. My default posture toward everyone I meet is the presumption that they are basically good people trying by their own lights to do the right thing. I have no reason to think otherwise of Rev. Graham. But having a pure heart and a string of good deeds to one’s credit does not give one a free pass to speak at will in a public forum and expect immunity from public critique. Rev. Graham spoke quite publicly to small church pastors like myself and I doubt that it came as any surprise to him that some of us spoke back and that some of us were critical of his words. That is why the procedure in Matthew 18 is inapplicable. Rev. Graham did not “sin against me.” He made public statements with which I disagree fundamentally and I responded publicly.
I suspect that, being a public figure, Rev. Graham’s skin is a good deal thicker than some of his defenders who seemed hysterically insulted by my letter. If Rev. Graham even saw my letter, I expect that he probably smiled, sighed, shook his head, hit the delete button and went on with the rest of his day. That might be a good prescription for some of you, too. If this is just a poorly written letter from an insecure, jealous, bitter, ignorant, theologically mixed up pastor of a failing church in an insignificant little town, why are you getting yourself so worked up over it? Why waste time responding? Get a life already! You need to shut down the computer and get outside. That’s what I am about to do. It’s beautiful out here in New Jersey today.
With this post I will end my participation on the thread. Again, thanks for your participation. I invite you to join me and the folks at Trinity in discussing the appointed scripture readings each week on our blog, Trinity’s Portico.
Rev. Peter A. Olsen, Pastor
Trinity Lutheran Church
Bogota, N.J.
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I will never follow you as a leader. You have shown no Christlike behavior. I do not know Franklin nor do I support his ministry. My response is to your arrogance and self judgement and your open letter on a social media platform. You place yourself on Gods throne and then catergorise those that oppose your opinion as aetheists or nonbelievers … well screw you! Your letter shows your self absorbed pride. You are not my Lord, I worship Christ … and Christ alone! You need some personal time on your knees asking our Lord for guidance. My opinon of you is that of a spoilt child crying for someone elses candy. Look at the Kingdom of God. It is pure and awesome … grow up!
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~ The Christian Dilemma:
The greatest threat to America, and indeed to the rest of world, at this point in history, comes from the staunch advocates of right wing ideology, and I must submit this warning to you: There is a grave problem with the right wing movement, in that; they seem to possess a distorted sense of entitlement. They’ve set themselves apart, and seem to think that their faith gives them the right to view the world from a platitude of conceit, through condescending eyes, and with a false sense of superiority. They actually believe themselves to be superior beings, with a manifest destiny and some strange notion that God is on their side. A people with a desire to conquer, under the false guise of Christianity, seeking to dominate in the name of Christ, their view of humanity being reduced to nothing more than a matter of “us” and “them”.
What they fail to realize is; if the Christ you believe in leads you to view other humans as lesser beings, then you are a follower of the anti-Christ. The plain truth is; God doesn’t have a religion and God doesn’t discriminate. Any religion that professes to be the only true religion, or that they‘re special in the eyes of God preaches false doctrine. If the Spirit of God is truly with you, it will only be known by acts of “unconditional” love and charity. No religion can claim exclusive rights to God. He belongs to all that He has created, and to foster a belief in “us” and “them” is to divide humanity, not unite it.
And so it will be, in The End, that those who have set themselves apart from their fellow man will find that they have set themselves apart from God. The worth of a soul will only be measured by how much it has loved, nothing more, nothing less. Woe to those who have taken the widow’s mite and built castles and empires in His name. They have incurred a great accountability, their suffering will be unending.
Even Jesus will not claim to be Christian, but will only proclaim the glory of the Father. And when He returns they will shout: “Here we are Lord!” And He will respond: “I never knew you”. They have forsaken the Word and have become prisoners of the Numbers.
Those who have put themselves first will be last.
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Thank you Pastor Olsen for this response. I would disagree with your understanding that the Matthew 18 passage does not apply here. But we can agree to disagree.
What I think is of utmost importance is the following:
1. The bakers did not refuse service to the homosexual couple because they were homosexual. It was because of the event which the cake would have been used to celebrate. In their view (and I agree) they would have been participating in this if they had baked the cake. If the cake were for a birthday party, or something else like that, they would have been served. So regardless of what the media, and even the biased court ruled, this was not a case of discrimination. It was a case of refusing to be a part of something which contradicts Christ’s teachings on the sanctity of marriage. That is a crucial difference which is critical to the moral paradigm here. Let me ask you, if anyone from a “protected” group asked you to bake a cake to celebrate the success of Ashley Madison’s promotion of adultery in America, would you bake it?
2. Just because someone opposes an action and regards it as sinful, does not mean that they hate the person doing that action. One can love the sinner while hating the sin. One can oppose smoking yet love the person who is smoking. One can hate slavery, while loving the slave, and even the slave owner. In the same way, one can love the homosexual while opposing homosexual behavior.
3. Rev. Franklin Graham has done far more to carry out the injunctions of Matthew 25 — feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, healing the sick, providing housing to the homeless, helping the displaced and refugees, etc than most other people I know. It is ironic that he is taken to task for not doing these. He has also “defended the rights of the poor and needy” and the persecuted all over the world. Speaking out against injustice is seldom popular. Yet he has not held back from speaking out for those who are oppressed — including unborn children in America. And in the case in point, he has chosen to endure the rhetorical slams from people like yourself in order to stick up for some bakers who were unjustly treated! He does not deserve the disrespect he has received from so many on this site. But you are right, I’m sure he has a thick skin, and it will not prevent him from doing what he believes to be the right thing to do.
I would strongly recommend that you get to know him and his organization better. Why not accompany him or some of his staff to Syria, Iraq, Sudan, or any of the many places where, in the midst of civil war, unimaginable suffering and agony his organization is providing hope and badly needed assistance to people in desperate need.
Feel free to contact me. My email is mjmiddleton@hotmail.com
God bless you!
Mel
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~ The Separation Of Church And Hate:
There is a good reason why Church and State must always remain separate. Let’s get something straight, right from the start: A theocratic state is not a free state, and never will be. I’m sure it was never Jesus’ intention nor was it His will that anyone should be dominated in His name, the name of Christ. That is the will of men. To be accurate, the concept in itself is anti-Christian. You can only follow Christ by choice, not by legislation.
It seems some people are more intent on casting stones at perceived sinners than propagating the love of Christ. ~ “Above all else, I command you love one another”. ~ This was the message that Jesus preached, and as far as I can see, the worth of a soul will only be measured as such. But I can assure you of one thing, when your time of judgment comes, you won’t be asked to recite scripture, but rather, if anything, the question will be: Did you get the message and live by it?
For all of you people out there on the religious right, you should try to remember that looking for sins to condemn, and people to persecute in the name of God, is simply Satan’s way of keeping you from seeing what is good and praiseworthy. It’s Satan’s favorite means of deceit; getting people to hate and kill each other in the name of God and Christ Jesus. Twisting scripture to incite hatred and division.
Understand this; that by doing so, you are defaming the name of Christ, associating Jesus with bigotry and hate. Jesus was never cursed with these feelings, these sins that you commit in His name. It’s widely agreed that He rose above it all, and to use His name for the justification of spreading contempt and hatred for anyone is true heresy. It isn’t Pro-Christ by any means, but clearly Anti-Christ.
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~ It doesn’t really seem to matter at this point if you believe in God and Christ or not. What we have are Anti-Christians, the antithesis of the persona Jesus, and they are attempting, through legislation, to declare America to be a theocratic state and nation, legitimizing discrimination under the false guise of “religious freedom”. If you’re not one of the “chosen” you’re fair game for persecution, oppression and abuse. It’s a perfect “us” and “them” scenario. If you express opposing views to the “Order” or you’re a non-believer, or in any way perceived as a “sinner”, they’ll be coming for you.
~ Anti-Christians ~ The scriptures flow as sweet as honey from their lips, seducing and robbing in the name of God. These are the ones Jesus spoke of that would come in the End Times and deceive many in His name. Anti-Christians: You will know them by their bigotry, their hatred, and their contempt for “others”.
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The very concept of a separation between church and state is a Christian doctrine, based on the teachings of Christ and emphasized during the Anabaptist reformation. Therefore, by applying it, you are conceding that a Christian concept of political structure is essential.
Of course I agree that there should be a separation of church (institution) and state (institution).
This does not mean that those with a Christian world view or standards of morality and justice can not influence public policy. To believe that would be to support Marxist communism, not Democracy. In America, “we the people” are “Caesar. And everyone has an equal right to voice their concerns and strive for what they believe to be the most just society. This is not theocracy. It is democracy in a Republican form of government.
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The small church (slightly smaller than yours) for which I am a (part-time) pastor has people of significantly differing political and theological beliefs. And yet we all get along. Respect each other. Do not condemn each other’s ideas. Sometimes, we even learn from each other. We follow John Wesley’s credo: Do no harm. As far as you are able, be Christ-like. Love each other and God. The operant phrase here is “love”. Nowhere is there the word judgment.
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I’ve been saying the same thing over and over. This last election has proven to me that karma definitely does not exist and everything my mother said about being a christian was a lie.
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Thank you for the words It is so True
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I cannot agree that this is in any way good.
The sarcasm of your “grateful”, “friendly” public letter should be a clear warning that you may not be a man who is at all interested in coming alongside a Christian brother to offer sincere correction. You need to crack open the bible and read Matthew 18:15, which says, “… if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
You proceed with much inaccuracy from there.
I do commiserate with your criticisms of Donald Trump, the man. I was dismayed when Trump gained the nomination, and did not end up voting for either major party nominee. However, it is important to realize the other main alternative was a person whose policies would further erode America, erode our allies, and further undermine the freedoms and virtues America’s Christian forefathers gave us. Based on the goals and policies President Trump campaigned on, your rhetoric is not reasonable.
That, however, is not the main problem with the letter. It is full of falsehoods about God, and about Christianity itself.
There are two extremes amongst churches that each turn people away from God. They each neglect to hold the Truth of scripture in high regard, and instead they focus on only the sections they prefer while – under the influence of their fleshly nature – they ignore those sections they don’t like.
One extreme focuses only on sin, and ignores God’s calling for His followers to give practical help to people in need. They ignore the lessons of the Good Samaritan, and passages, such as James 2:14-17, which says, “14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.”
If a church focuses only on sin, it can lead to legalism, in which they begin to call behaviors sin, which God has not said are sinful. Rarely, it can even result in church leaders inserting themselves into the daily decisions of their congregation in unhealthy, unbiblical ways.
Another harmful extreme, far more common in America, is nearly the opposite. These churches focus only on physical acts of service, and refuse to acknowledge sin, and the need for the gospel. The gospel is the good news that although our own sin has separated us from God, He has sacrificed, taken our punishment, and paid the penalty for those of us who turn to Him as Savior.
These churches ignore passages that make it clear that God does care about sin, such as 1st Corinthians 6:9-11 which says, “9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”
What you said about God in your letter is not true. It is not true that, “His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us”. That is one of God’s concerns, but not more important than His concern over our sins.
However, these churches gloss over the truth and teach that Christianity is only about that. They pretend Christianity is onlyt about “being a nice person”, and not offending anyone by mentioning uncomfortable truths.
While ignoring the real gospel, they engage in what they call a “social gospel”, or “social justice”. While refusing to acknowledge the sin that really keeps people from God, they try to befriend an unrepentant, unholy culture with their “ministries”.
This error is clearly the camp you, Rev. Peter Olsen, fall in.
You say in your letter,
“At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes.”
Although you’re right about voting, and maybe in most circumstances cake baking, the rest of this sentence is Peter Olsen calling God a liar.
I already quoted above just one of many scriptures which state that God will punish all adulterers, fornicators, and homosexuals and other sinners if they don’t repent and turn to Jesus for salvation. But you apparently think God was lying in these verses.
To call yourself a reverend and use that position to spread false teaching, you may have revealed yourself to not be a Christian at all, and to earn yourself a special place in hell, only God knows, but that is not the only error.
You continue to misconstrue, and to ignore sin at every turn. You claim that bakers refused to bake for a gay couple, but that is not accurate. They were happy to bake for them, and had done so many times. However, they refused to bake a cake for a religious ceremony that went against their religion. That is a different thing entirely, which a reverend should know, but maybe you just don’t care.
Homosexual behavior is a sin against God – no better, and no worse than other sins, but a sin just the same. To involve a Christian in a sinful ceremony is not tenable, but you pretend it is just about “following the law”. The Bible is full of examples when the authorities told believers to “follow the law” against the commands of God, and a “reverend” should be aware of the need to obey God in those circumstances. Examples such as Daniel and his three friends, and Peter and John in Acts 4 come immediately to mind.
When the government fines people tens of thousands of dollars, and puts them out of business for staying true to God and to their conscience, yes, that is persecution. It isn’t to the point of the deaths that occur in Muslim lands, but it is persecution. Your pat dismissal of it is dishonorable.
Genuine Christianity relies on the whole counsel of God. It doesn’t pick and choose the sections that appeal to our particular nature. It trusts that God is right. That we are to stand against sin, while doing it with gentleness and love. It trusts that we are to help those in need, even our enemies, and to do it at personal sacrifice, but not to do it in a way that goes against another of God’s commands or to do it apart from sharing the gospel and “the hope that is within us”.
No, sorry, I can’t find any redeeming value in this letter. It steers people away from true Christianity just as poorly as other non-biblical Christian-sounding extremes do.
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Yo need to wise-up, Peter.
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Itsfunny to read this article about how this Pastor claims to never have been persecuted, but then goes on to describe how whole groups of people are being persecuted in the form of denial of health care, real estate inequality etc. Not my battle but it seems that so many people pick and choose their perceived ideological arguments. Thank God we are free and can choose to follow the path of Christ. Franklin Graham isnt responsible for the inequalities and social injustices in our nation, Neither is Donal Trump for that matter, although he may not have helped to this point to alleviate any of them. Better to approach this from an appeal thsn to point fingers of judgement. We need people in positions of infulence to step up and to address these issues, and I believe from what we are seeing that our president is trying to do so, im sure others will disagree.
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You know I would give this interesting article, though it is fairly snippy and disrespectful, if Peter or YOU were to have included his last name, his town of residence, and his church. If he doesn’t have the spine to stand beside what he wrote it makes me tend to disregard the article as fake. Those of you who posted this needs to quote your source. Silly blabber without authority isn’t worth my or anyone else’s consideration. Shame on you.
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Dear Small Town Pastor: The points you made in your letter were denuded by your sarcasm, which is generally believed to be a form of anger. Doesn’t the Bible condemnt anger? At least my Bible does. Are you using the correct Bible? You sure you aren’t using the Bible according to small town pastor? (See how sarcasm can hurt and undermine a message and is totally unChristian!)
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This was not written by a pastor which believes that homosexuality is an abomination to God. Read the first chapter of Romans.
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On other thing, small town pastor. If we have to “comply” with your demand to bake cakes for anyone and everyone….would you bake a cake CELEBRATING pedophilia? Adultery? Murder? Bestiality? Necrophilia? YOU WOULD! So by baking that cake celebrating those unChristian immoral acts means you subtly support them. Wow, didn’t now you had such an active sex life! Does your wife know this? (Continuing the sarcasm you used with Rev. Graham.) I guess you think people who own private buildings have to allow gays to hold their wedding receptions there? The next thing you know you’ll be endorsing gay pastors and gay marriage? So, small town pastor, where does your “flexibility” end? Does it end with baking a cake and then you say “no” to the gay wedding reception? WAIT! You can’t do that, you’ve already set a precedent by baking the cake for the gay couple. So what’s the difference between the cake and the gay wedding reception in a building owned by Christians or Muslims? Where do YOU draw the line? Looking forward to your (hopefully) non-sarcastic response.
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It is painful to see how Christians these days are trading the cross of Jesus to the fame of this world. I could I stand to defend a person who stated on TV that he does not need God to repent. Thank you pastor for this letter and I am calling all disciples of Jesus to take a stand behind the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Behold how they love one another …
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Peter,
If I asked a Jewish or Muslim butcher to process a pig for me, could they refuse on religious convictions?
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Well Rev.Franklin Graham it looks like the Pastor from a small church,just sent you a Bible Reading.Pastor Pete if I knew where your small church filled with the Love for God was,I would join.Thank you Pastor for letting a fake Christian know what it truly means to be a Real Child of God with love for everyone.God-Bless you and your small church with the 30-40 people with the big ♥️ ‘s.
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Franklin graham is an honest and moral example of someone who I admire standing up for his faith and beliefs which are being attacked by slowly and surely whether or not the smug rude and pompepus “small town” so called “pastor” wants to acknowledge it…I feel sad for the couple who should have been able to keep their religious and constistutional freedom in deciding who give their business too considering it was their own buisness…Kudos for them on not just following the crowd and being like the rest of the political correct idiots who may preach “love” but instead show love to anyone but Christians. Franklin Graham is an amazing man who has led more thousands to Christ, probably way more then this othee so called pastor has…And what kind of Christian eexample does it show to attack an ederly man? I this it’s not Franklin Graham who needs to read his Bible but the other way around..Christ calls us to show compassion, but he also calls to speak the truth even if it goes against the world and that which is so called accepted…Kudos to franklin for knowing the bible and not being swayed by the world and all it’s foolishness…
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Franklin graham is an honest and moral example of someone who I admire standing up for his faith and beliefs which are being attacked by slowly and surely whether or not the smug rude and pompepus “small town” so called “pastor” wants to acknowledge it…I feel sad for the couple who should have been able to keep their religious and constistutional freedom in deciding who give their business too considering it was their own buisness…Kudos for them on not just following the crowd and being like the rest of the political correct idiots who may preach “love” but instead show love to anyone but Christians. Franklin Graham is an amazing man who has led more thousands to Christ, probably way more then this othee so called pastor has…And what kind of Christian example does it show to attack an ederly man? I this it’s not Franklin Graham who needs to read his Bible but the other way around..Christ calls us to show compassion, but he also calls to speak the truth even if it goes against the world and that which is so called accepted…Kudos to franklin for knowing the bible and not being swayed by the world and all it’s foolishness…
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Peter…….you are the disappointment, not pastor Graham. Maybe this is why your church still runs a membership of 50. Known by its fruits. I realize there will be a lot of false prophets and ministers who will tickle the people ears. But, without being cruel I will only say……..Gods words nor mine. That to look upon another mans nakedness is an abomination before the Lord. He also, says you are either for me or against me. Maybe you shouldn’t be so afraid to stand for what is right. Stop preaching what people want to hear and preach what they need to hear………Yes, God does love ALL people, but he hates the sin they commit. Hence……..the need for salvation. Maybe Peter you should study Gods word more and letter writing less. Just saying……
May God bless you both during this difficult time in history……
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Reblogged this on whitfieldsilver and commented:
Great read.
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First, this pastor may have the cart before the horse: Jesus is not solely concerned with how we treat others but His primary purpose was to seek and save the lost (Lk. 19:10). Then the result of being saved will be actions such as those in Mt. 25 that demonstrate to others their faith in Jesus. He also appears to ignore the passages in the Bible that say that homosexuals, among many others, will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Secondly, he attempts to use the argument that since Frank chose to mention at that time a couple who was persecuted and didn’t mention the evils that can be found with Trump, that he therefore approves of everything Trump has done and that Frank should be silent about the issue of homosexuality. That argument doesn’t fly. The Bible clearly speaks out against homosexuality as well as some the actions of Trump. Frank’s choice to speak to that issue at that time was reasonable. To denounce a brother who’s priorities don’t exactly match your own at that precise moment is at best in bad taste.
Thirdly, he accepts a presupposition that if it is a law of our land it must be good and should be followed. Instead we should obey God rather than man if we are faced with a circumstance that forces us to make that choice. (Acts 5:29)
Fourthly, he attempts to make the case that losing your business or means of livlihood and additionally gettting a fine of over $150,000 which will make them lose their home as well as everything else is no big deal and certainly not significant enough to be classified as persecution. That’s quite a stretch. He also states if you don’t like the rules, don’t join the game. This overlooks the fact that the couple were already in the game when the rules were changed. It also overlooks the fact that they believed they were still operating within the rules since Oregon had in 2004 defined a marriage as between a man and a woman. He also overlooks the fact that the bakery had served these two girls before so it was not about which client they were serving (discrimination). They were not asked to just “bake a cake”, they were asked to design a cake to celebrate a union which was opposite to how marriage has been defined across all cultures for literally millenia.
In conclusion, it appears that the underlying purpose of his letter is to minimize homosexuality. It is an incorrect approach to minimize any sin mentioned in the Bible including homosexuality.
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Sorry Pastor, but I agree with Franklin Graham. When the law violates God’s word, we are suppose to follow God’s word, and suffer the consequences. If you were a doctor, and a lady came in who was 8 1/2 months pregnant, and she wanted an abortion, and the law said you could not refuse, would you follow the law? Right now, in many states, that is not a child according to the law. Would it matter if she was 5 months? Or 3 months? God’s word doesn’t allow us to use excuses. If it isn’t against his word, then we must suck it up and obey the law. So if the taxes get outrageous, we must pay them. You need to think this through thoroughly, because the time will come when the question isn’t as simple as a cake. Mark my words. It will come. And for those that unfortunately get left behind at the Rapture, whenever the LORD decides that shall be, I hope they will have heard enough on this topic to realize where their mistake was, and change their allegiance. Thank you.
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It saddens me to see people mix religion and politics. the framers of our constitution specifically tried to keep this type of politics and religion mixing from happening. Certainly I applaud Peters effort to educate mr. Graham on the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ. Seemingly the television evangelist are the ones who most applaud president Trump’s misguided efforts in the White House so Peter again thank you for your time and writing that message to Franklin Graham he should know better.
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Perhaps you are unaware, but the term “separation of church and state is not in the Constitution. Also, it is a Christian doctrine, taught by Christ and highlighted during the time of the Anabaptist reformation (who are the spiritual ancestors of people like Franklin Graham). So while it is good to separate the church (as an institution) from the state, it is impossible to separate religion from politics.
Similarly, the family is another God given institution, and it is separate from the church. The Pastor and elders of our church don’t tell me how many children to have, where my family lives, etc, But principles learned in Church do help us as parents to manage our families in God’s way. In the same way, the Pastor and elders of our churches should not dictate civil government policy. But they can provide us principles and teachings which show Christ’s standards of justice and righteousness.
Christ’s injunction to “love your enemies” is profoundly political. So is “thou shalt not steal”, and every other moral injunction in religion. In a democratic republic, “we the people” are the rulers. We are Caesar, and Christ expects rulers to use their influence for true justice and righteousness. To interpret the “separation of church and state” to mean that only those who are not members of churches can influence public policy would be Marxist communism, not Christianity or democracy!
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Beautiful!
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It is very sad to see a Christian backslide away from the truth and use their gifts of time and ministry to not only discredit those who preach, teach and live out Biblical truth, but also work to spread their own false teachings. I have many issues with the viewpoint of this blog post/article, as I will explain.
Let’s take the little rural church. Small town Pastor Peter needs to back up and recognize that Rev. Franklin Graham knows that there is really only one way most of these poor little churches can help his ministry; they help through prayer and community outreach which costs nothing. They certainly can’t donate any money, given their struggle to make budget, mainly for lights and the standby candles in the event that the power is shutoff. All these churches can offer is the cheap stuff, like prayer. But wait, isn’t the Decision America Tour all about prayer and sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ? But wait, maybe Pastor Peter is saying that Jesus prefers the prayers of the prosperous people and the preachers at those mega-churches that wax their twist on the scriptures so poetically. Or is that really what Jesus prefers?
I’m thinking maybe Rev. Graham recognizes that where two are more are gathered together, the Lord is not only present, but also gives equal consideration to all who would bow before Him. Hindsight, maybe it wasn’t a wrong turn by the deluxe bus of Decision America; maybe Graham said, let’s visit some of the rural areas, ask them to join us in prayer, and let them know that God loves them and has a morally sound plan for their lives. Pastor Peter’s condescending tone, something that is not Christ-like, makes it sound like he feels that Rev. Graham is just trolling for donations.
And oh, that “newsworthy,” stuff? Has Pastor Peter seen the news lately and is he saying that the media actually covers “newsworthy” stories? Let’s consider from another angle. We’re going to put a positive spin on this Pastor’s gripe, and see Graham’s visit as an opportunity for the poor country church to make the cover of the weekly newspaper. If the paper chooses to interview Pastor Peter, let’s hope he was on his best behavior and not grumbling (yes, grumbling is in the Bible, but not in a good light) since those kinds of actions negate a Christian’s witness just as quickly as quoting scripture out of context.
Next, did Pastor Peter imply that Samaritan’s Purse does not “feed the hungry, care for the sick, comfort the dying and bury the dead?” Well I can tell you first hand that Samaritan’s Purse was with my group in Haiti, right after the big earthquake. They organized teams that built shelters and brought in medical teams, including a half dozen or more nurses, doctors and surgeons who brought their talents, expertise and crates of medical supplies to those in need. There was outreach during that trip to Haiti; we were there when several people died in a vehicle accident, and we rejoiced when three souls took their last breaths having just received Christ as their savior. Praise God.
There was also the time I was in Sri Lanka after the tsunami, doing manual labor, clearing land and building houses. And yes, Samaritan’s Purse was there. And of course they were also in their Operation Christmas Child facility when a group from my church went down for the day to load boxes. And the first week of June 2017, coming up, I’ll see Samaritan’s Purse again when I work with them in the cleanup and home restorations near Rocky Mount, NC for the victims, most of them elderly, of the recent floods.
As this is running long, I’ll spend only a short part on the segment that motivated me to write in the first place. I’ll be as direct and succinct as possible. I want to know which Jesus is Pastor Peter talking about? “Jesus the Love,” “Jesus the Obedient,” “Jesus the Holy,” “Jesus the Judge,” and/or “Jesus the Merciful?”
Reading this piece, I think our small town preacher is close with and relates to Jesus the Love. The Pastor is indifferent with Jesus the Obedient and he only calls upon Jesus the Merciful when things are not going so good. He thinks Jesus the Judge is just sitting in Heaven waiting for people to get show up at the pearly gates, and finally, Pastor Peter only communes Jesus the Holy for an hour or two at church on Sunday.
Example, let’s take the cake. I write NOT because I want to win an argument; it is that I am concerned about where people and these readers will spend eternity. It is articles like this and those who write them that send the wrong message and lead people down a path of destruction. Unfortunately, it has become the norm with speakers like Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen to pick and choose the “good happy stuff” in the Bible; the “be a Christian because that’s how you can live Your Best Life Now!” Sounds like Pastor Peter is choosing the this path as well. His explanation and example of the cake shows clearly that he ignores the Biblical context of scripture and selects individual passages that support something much less than a Biblical worldview. This includes his view of non-judgment, and a world without absolute truth or universal boundaries.
Did Jesus judge the prostitute at the well? Yes. He judged the Pharisees for not bringing forth witnesses or the man she was caught with. And He judged the prostitute with His last words, “Go, and SIN no more.”
We all have heard that Jesus hung out with sinners, why? Because He had come to heal the sinners. The Pharisees thought at the do-bad people needed to be banished from society but “Jesus the Love” did not agree. In fact, He treated the sinners with dignity, empathy, and love. But (yes, there is always a but and the but is always big), he also didn’t just accept sinners as they were. He didn’t come to sinners and then leave them as they were. He came to them to fundamentally transform them. He wanted to leave them as EX-tax gatherers (like Zaccheus) and EX-prostitutes (like Mary Magdalene).
Yes, Christians need to be like Jesus in compassion and understanding. But it is not Christ-like to tolerate sin in one’s friends. It is Christ-like to seek healing for the sins of your friends.
This is important! Christians need to be like Jesus in compassion and understanding. But it is not Christ-like to tolerate sin in one’s friends. It is Christ-like to seek healing for the sins of your friends.
Christians don’t save people, we don’t change or transform people, and we can’t argue non-Christians into Heaven. It is all up to God, and The Holy Spirit working in the lives of the friends and acquaintances of the Christians who seek to positively influence people with their Christ-like lifestyle.
Now, let’s cut the cake; it’s not about baking, it’s about participation. Forget baking cakes for a moment and let’s peal back the layers of this issue. What if one of your good friends, a practicing homosexual, asked you to be in his gay wedding? Would you be his “groomsman?” Do you feel it is justifiable to be forced to be his groomsman or face charges. Isn’t being charged with such an offense, or being told that your religious viewpoint does not matter constitute religious persecution?
If the Bible is absolute truth, as I believe it is, then how do you avoid those verses that clearly define what is sin, and what are the wages of sin?
Maybe the baker should not have stopped the conversation with the refusal to bake their cake, which in reality is the baker’s participation in the gay wedding. What if the baker had said, ““I follow the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. According to the scriptures, gay marriage is neither right nor good, and I don’t feel comfortable being party to a gay wedding ceremony. But I don’t have anything against you as a person, and I would love to get to know you and find out more about where you are coming from. Would you and your boyfriend/girlfriend like to come to my house for dinner? I’ll even bake a cake.”
Think about it.
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I NOTICED YOU NOT SAYING “YE THAT IS WITHOUT SIN ALL COME SHORT TO THE GLORY OF GOD” THAT IS WHY GOD SENT HIS ONLY SON TO EARTH TO DIE ON THE CROSS AT CALVARY TO FORGIVE US OF OUR SINS SO THAT WE MAY HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE. ONES THAT THROW STONES SHOULD NOT LIVE IN A GLASS HOUSE…..I’M JUST GUESSING, BUT, YOU SEEM TO HAVE SOME VERY SERIOUS ANGER ISSUES AND MAY NEED TO SEEK COUNSELING….OR IS IT THAT BROTHER GRAHAM HAS BECOME OE OF THE TOP PREACHERS IN THE WORLD AND YOU ARE JUST LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO VENT WITH…..GOOD LUCK IN THE FUTURE
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Thank you Peter for such an enlightening letter. You were right on, I feel the same way.
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Very nicely put. I think too often we loose sight of our jobs as Christian’s and fail to do what is required of us and encouraging to see such a clear reminder. Thank you and peace be with you.
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What’s your church, Peter, if you don’t mind telling us?
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Once more, in an effort to dispel the myths of my non-existence or anonymity, my full name is Peter A. Olsen. I serve as Pastor of Trinity Lutheran Church, Bogota, New Jersey. If you go to the top of the blog and click on “Contact Information” and “Pastor Olsen” you will find out the exact location of my church, where I went to seminary, who I married, how many children I have and a good deal more about me and my church than anyone probably ever wanted to know.
Peter
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AMÉN!
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I agree with your premise. But would it have been possible for you to have found a more respectful tone? I imagine, if Franklin Graham (that’s his name) was in front of you and you had the chance to communicate your message to him, your words would not have dripped with insult and disrespect as it did in your open letter. You and I may be confused by his position political and theological but as believers we should be able to disagree with more grace.
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That is so wrong….. has he never heard of Samaritans’ purse? I mean really how much is he, the small town pastor, personally doing to make things better for others or is he just passing judgement on someone he obviously knows nothing about? Our founding fathers certainly didn’t have this attitude…nor did anyone in european history. Only in the new Liberal America is this silence touted as ‘Christian’…and it is only to shut us up from saying anything. They say it is wrong to be involved in politics as a church…I’ve been to plenty of black churches and I can tell you the black community certainly is involved in politics…only the white churches have been silenced by pastors like this one….shame on him. SHAME on him. https://www.samaritanspurse.org/what-we-do/franklin-graham/
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You are so right jreneefraser. Thank you for standing up for the truth!
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Our founding fathers didn’t genocide millions of Native Americans and rape, kill, torture, maim, enslave and totally rob millions of African people?
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An Open Letter to Rev. Olsen on Christian Persecution
http://preachergirldiaries.blogspot.com
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Thanks Susan. I hope that Rev Olsen and many others check out the link. Thanks for standing up for the truth!
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I’d just like to thank you and all the rest of the “Real Christians Who Hate Sinners Because Of Their Sin” crowd for reminding me why I ran screaming from the hateful and abusive relationship of a belief system that is Christianity.
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If someone hates slavery, that does not mean he/she hates slaves. On the contrary, to expose the evil and cruelty of slavery helps to free the slave from that bondage. All sin that is carried out presumptuously leads to bondage.
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Sadly, that is why I am no longer “Christian”…too many Franklins and not enough Peters. I’m doing fine without “Christianity”, I know what’s in my heart and soul-so does the Lord.
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ConTrump is the living embodiment of ALL seven of the Deadly Sins:
Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride.
Every. Single. One.
You cannot believe yourself to be following the word of Christ while supporting the actions of trump. There is no way one can support a conman like Trump and profess to follow the teachings of the Bible & Jesus Christ. Those two things are not reconcilable or compatible.
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How can a Christian support someone (like Hillary) who wants to expand the killing of unborn children…even past the time when there is no question that these innocent and precious lives can feel pain? Remember, the Word of God tells us that God hates the shedding of innocent blood!
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I believe Franklin Graham has fed more people, took care of the poor people all over this country and the world than any of us. Yes, he has shown how the Lord loves people, all kinds of people and I am sure he has not asked if any of them are gay before he helped them. Disaster areas depend on Franklin whenever there is a disaster. I praise the Lord that He has Franklin exactly where he is today!! His father told people they were/are sinners and people didn’t like that back in the day! Over and over he preached and people were saved. How many people have come to know the Lord this month in you small church? If you were preaching salvation, I would wonder why you don’t have more people in your church? I go to a larger church and every Sunday the invitation to come to know Christ as your Savior is asked and from 10-30 and more raise their hands and/ or go up front Sundays and Saturday’s. May you realize that God has different people for His work here on earth. About President Trump, did you forget about King David!! A murderer but a man after God heart…President Trump as all of us have done (sinned). God has put him in the office of President of the United States of America and you are called to pray for your leaders. That is in the bible, too!! God bless your church and I will pray for people to come to know the Lord so you have more people who love the Lord!!!
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Thanks Shirley! Great reply.
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This pastor is so right on one thing. He is very confused and lack biblical understanding. Persecution is not only when you go to jail or have your head cut off. Pastor please read your bible before you start writing ignorantly!!. Someone have the right to refuse business to someone or a couple that would use their business to support what the Bible calls abomination. I completely support Franklin Graham one hundred percent on his views. This Is a letter from one of those compromising pastors that confuses the love of God with accepting sinful lifestyle. God help us!!!
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Well that was condescending and rude. Sorry, but you can’t accuse Franklin of all those things while doing it publicly (not Biblical) and being disrespectful.
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I must say, Peter, you are way off base. I, too, am a a servant of Christ, albeit an imperfect one. I am regularly persecuted here in America in small ways for my faith. Obviously not
any thing like our brothers and sisters in other parts of the world where their lives are in jeopardy, but persecuted nonetheless. I am not completely shocked because Jesus said that as his followers we would face persecution. No, we shouldn’t have to bake cakes for gay weddings when that is obviously against our religious beliefs. That is our constitutional right though so many liberals like you continue to try to take it away. If trends continue the way they have even here in America eventually we won’t have any religious freedom. Franklin Graham is spot on. I dare say he’s read and studied the Bible as much as you, maybe even more. Insulting one of America’s strongest Christian leaders is just unbecoming of any pastor. I could say more but I need to get back to work.
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Well said! I agree with you. Thanks for standing up for the Truth!
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Very well written letter, Pastor Olsen (Peter). I am sharing your words on my blog because they echo truth as I understand it. While I admit having some personal issues with some of the statements made so clearly here, the fact is that in this spiritual battle our planet is currently in need of someone to say them. And they need to be said loudly, and strongly and without hesitation. While not so eloquently, that is why I’ve republished my series called REVEALED at this time. In it’s pages I’ve given update footnotes which show where we are at in this spiritual control of our lives and indicate where we are headed as can be found in the Book of The Revelation – as found in the Bible. Everyone is invited to read it and perhaps see the Truth for yourself.
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Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-Nego honored Nebuchadnezzar without dishonoring God, and surrendering to the laws of man.
This pastor quotes Peter as saying you don’t get divine kudos for breaking the law.
I don’t remember Peter saying that.
I do remember Jesus (remember Him?) saying this:
“Blessed are you when men hate you, And when they exclude you, And revile you, and cast out your name as evil, For the Son of Man’s sake.
Rejoice in that day and leap for joy! For indeed your reward is great in heaven, For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.”
Luke 6:22-23 NKJV
I do remember Paul’s statement about feeding your enemy.
I also remember (maybe you forgot) his opening statement in that same letter:
….“who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.”
Romans 1:32 NKJV
The baker and florist acted in complete faithfulness to ALL of Romans, not just pieces of it.
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Well said! Thank you for standing up for the Truth!
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What makes me very sad about this very public letter is how we as Christians are turning on one another. We judge by how liberally or carefully someone follows God’s word. We need to love one another as Christ loved us(that means other Christians too, whether you agree with them or not). Let’s stop tearing none another down pubically and begin dialog that is edifying. The world is watching us and they see how we treat other, both the lost and our brothers and sisters in Christ.
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Peter,
Forgive me if I do not use the term “dear” added to your name in insincerity. I do not know you and have never heard of you before reading your open letter to Franklin (not the falsely familiar “Frank” you have used) Graham. Your lack of formal respect in so beginning foretells of the condescension to come later in what you say. It is most unworthy in addressing a brother in Christ at best.
Hopefully not engaging in similar condescension, your focus seems to be on “Christian” love and persecution of Christians in the USA as being limited to those who have transgressed a law, specifically about discrimination. Am I on track here?
First about “Christian” love. What an easy accusation to make. What a coy bit of “virtue signaling” this can be. “I have the love of Christ and you don’t” simply because I say things coded with the term. Please, don’t tell us of your love, show us that love in what you do for others personally without thanks or recognition, acknowledging God as its source and not yourself. Do not take up the cry of social justice as though it is love before you are sure that God is the primary, indeed the sole object of your love and adoration, allowing Him to become the actual source of your love for your fellow man despite how your fellow man might perceive it. A doctor causes pain to heal quite often. God uses pain to remind us of our constant need of Him and of the commonality of the effects of sin in all of us. It is love of the best, the noble, the good that should motivate us (ἀγαπάω – agapao) not the love of equals ( φιλέω – phileo), not the love of appetite (ερος – eros) and that may only be directed towards God who alone is good. That He returns it to us through us is grace, peace and joy, but it is predicated on who and what God is, not what we want to accomplish for our fellow man.
I consider Christian persecution in the USA to be a decidedly secondary issue as it hasn’t yet reached the levels found almost everywhere else in the world. Yet it is a long established fact here as a minor note which is growing stronger by the moment. Just to clarify you comments on those who you felt (in error, I hope, and not out of mendacity) refused to bake a cake for gay people, the fact is in at least one instance (and I believe in most, if not all instances) it was never about “baking a cake” as the “offended” parties were regular customers. It was the refusal to incorporate a distasteful message on the top of the cake. The owner then directed them to a shop that would help them, if they chose to do so. The owner supplied a remedy at the time, yet the incident was used to prosecute and literally fine the bakery out of existence. Sound equitable to you? Submit or be destroyed. Is that not unconstitutional interference in freedom and individual conscience? Does it really seem right to you?
Here’s an interesting article. If you can get past the World Net Daily source here, you might find it instructive: http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/lgbt-teacher-called-out-for-bullying-students/
Peter, I am 66 years old. When I was in the 8th grade, I was held up to ridicule in front of my class for what they thought I believed, being made quite public in the form of a class mural. When I was in my early 50’s I ran for high school board here twice. The first time I found out the the teachers union illegally used school mail boxes to denounce me as a Christian. I was described as a “well funded” adversary to teachers, having spent all of $200 on my campaign. The union spent $20K in opposition to another candidate and me. The second time around, I learned that I was personally, vocally denounced by teachers in their classrooms to their students, illegally urging their parents to vote against me. Is that persecution? It is at least discrimination in violation of law. If such may be construed by other groups as persecution (and as you well know, they do) then yes, this was a mild persecution, was it not?
Fast forward to today. Now we have violence and bloodshed filling our streets by such groups as BAMN (By Any Means Necessary) a hard left social justice group here in California which has had members literally bludgeoned those with whom they disagree with 4 foot long 2×4 war clubs on our state’s capitol steps. We are so polarized as a nation as you yourself have exhibited with your “Trump” comments while ignoring the blatant misdeeds of the former office holder that we have moved beyond words or peaceful rhetoric. The general weltanschauung is changing and it doesn’t favor “Christianity” in almost any of its forms.
Peter, I urge you to go back in your thinking, to understand it’s about God being your first love and not men. Perhaps then you might find you have more in common with Franklin than you might now imagine. Its up to you.
And yes, you may call me
Charlie
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Very well said Charile!
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Romans 13:1-7 NLT
1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.
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Outstanding!!! Love comes in all colors, ages, financial status, gender & social status. “The first of all these commandments is LOVE”.
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It is a sad commentary that this administration’s Trumpcare 2.0 will throw about 17 million off their insurance in 2018 because they will not be able to afford to be covered for their pre-existing conditions; and where becoming pregnant will cause a couple with an unplanned pregnancy to ill afford coverage that they now need and did not anticipate. In addition, millions of poor people will be cut off Medicaid. Al of this is to give tax cuts to the rich. Now you tell me how taking from the poor to give tax breaks to the rich is a Christian value?
And, another inconvenient fact for the prolife crowd: abortion rate is below what it was in 1973. Why? Obamacare provides birth control mandate and Planned Parenthood pays for the poorest of women to get long acting IUD’s. If you want to impact abortion rates even further try paying a living wage and give family medical leave for even part time workers. You sure won’t impact abortion rates by taking away Medicaid.
There is not one thing in this administration that will prevent abortion. Women had illegal abortions and self-aborted before Roe v Wade. The history is gruesome. All Roe v Wade did was make it safe. And regarding the fetal pain issue? That is another lie: the nervous system is not developed until 29 weeks, far beyond the 20 week legal period (and, for argument’s sake, a fraction of a percent of abortions are that late).
Jesus spoke about helping the poor and welcoming your neighbor. How his message has been so perverted to supporting a party whose primary goals are tax cuts for the rich at the cost of the poor above all else is a symptom of all those evangelicals sin in this world who made Trump their Christ.
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Your information on fetal pain is sadly out of date! It is dangerous and inaccurate. Please check this out. http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com/
Abortion rates skyrocketed in 1973 after the infamous “Roe vs Wade” decision. Yes there were so-called “back alley abortions” before, but nowhere near the alleged figures. Read the book “Aborting America” by Dr. Bernard Nathanson, who was one of the founders of NARAL, and who was a spokesperson for the pro abortion movement during the Roe vs Wade years. He since changed his views after witnessing ultrasounds and one became a vocal pro life advocate. He admits that in those days when he supported abortion he and his colleagues simply made up statistics and used emotive symbols (such as the coat hanger) to manipulate public opinion! The book is well worth the read.
As for why abortion rates have dropped in recent years, this is NOT due to any effort on the part of Hillary or Obama. The reason is due to the tireless work of young pro life advocates who are maligned, demeaned, bullied and brow beaten — even arrested and imprisoned — yet refuse to stop telling the truth about the horrors of abortion. Their message is slowly but surely being heard! This, and the indisputable scientific and medical evidence (verified by ultrasound and other technical imagery) which confirms, beyond any reasonable doubt, that an unborn child is fully human at the time when abortions are carried out. They are not “tissue”, nor a “clump of cells” or any of the other dehumanizing terms which abortion advocates use to dupe vulnerable women into allowing them to kill their offspring. These young advocates for life are the true heroes of America. They deserve to be acknowledged and thanked for the service and love that they show to women and their children.
It is interesting that it was Democratic Party leaders, using pretty much the same line of reasoning as they now use to justify abortion, who supported slavery. The day will come, (and hopefully soon), when the atrocity which is abortion can no longer be masked by the multi-billion dollar greedy abortion industry; when a better informed public will regard this killing much in the same way that we regard slavery today. It will be seen for what it really is — an “unspeakable evil”! A horrific blight on the history of America!
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Fetuses do not feel pain. Your link is full of inaccuracies and flat out lies.
Furthermore, your claim that your god hates the shedding of innocent blood is a damned lie–Hosea 9:14, Numbers 5:11-21, 2 Kings 15:16, 1 Samuel 15:3, Psalms Psalms 137:8-9: ALL verses that celebrate the murder of children or ending of pregnancies through artificial (or otherwise) means.
Oh, but let me guess–the Old Testament is magically no longer valid (except for the “kill all the gays” verse in Leviticus) because Republican Jesus, right?
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What inaccuracies and lies are in the article? Can you name one of them?
Perhaps you missed the link in the article which provides documentation for all the statements made by these learned medical and research professionals. Let me give it to you here:
http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Fetal-Pain-The-Evidence-Feb-2013.pdf .
As for the verses you quoted…..some of them are simply descriptive (not prescriptive). They report on what people did, not what people SHOULD do. There is a difference (2 Kings 15:16). Others were simply reporting how people felt using poetry. They were expressing how the Psalmist or prophet was feeling. These are not commands to be carried out (Psalm (137: 8-9, and Hosea 9:14). Others are simply talking about what God will do to punish those guilty of specific sins, and if they are innocent no harm will be done to them (Numbers 5:11-2).
As for the command to drive the various Canaanite tribes from the land (1 Sam 15:3) one has to read the book of Enoch (not in the Western church canon of Scriptures) to understand the implications of this passage. The book of Enoch is considered canonical by the Coptic Church in Ethiopia, and was well known to the disciples and Jews during the time when Jesus walked on earth. Jude quotes from this book in his Epistle. To put it as concisely as possible, the Canaanites were a people who were descended from the Nephilim (Gen 6:9) who were not human. (They were also called Rephaim). They were the offspring of the “daughters of mankind” and a group of fallen angels (or extraterrestrials) called “Watchers” who defied God and came to earth to engage in sexual activity with human women. In short, their DNA was defiled. They were described as “giants” in the Old Testament. Remember Goliath?
But here’s the rub! According to the Book of Enoch, the departed spirits of these Nephilim (Canaanites) are the dreadful beings who Christ referred to as demons. This was Satan’s plan to defile and corrupt the human race and populate his kingdom on earth — using demons.
There is much more to be said about this. But the upshot is that God values His creation — human life — more than any other being or thing. We are so precious to Him that He was willing to experience death on the cross to save us and give us everlasting life with Him. None of the verses you put forward contradict Proverbs 6:17, where we are told clearly that “God hates the shedding of innocent blood.” The goal of the enemy, the devil, however, is to destroy that which God loves so dearly.
To sum it all up. God loves you and has done everything He can to allow you to know Him and to spend eternity with Him. Why not accept His offer! Jesus said: “”Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” Matthew 11:38. He also said: “I have come that you might have life, and that you might have it more abundantly”.
The best possible life you can ever have is by giving your heart to Jesus, the very author of LIFE!
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Apparently, Peter, you must live in a very small backwater where you are out of touch with what is going on in the US. First, you are NOT a baker or florist who is denied the right to stand for their conscious sake and the Word of GOD without being persecuted by the LGTB’s. You apparently are NOT a father who’s son was told he could not write about his trip to Mexico at Christmas where he got to see the annual progression of the Holy Family. You apparently are not in touch with those who are maligned, denigrated, called “intolerant”, and even denied school admission or jobs because of their Christian beliefs, despite the fact that religion is supposed to be protected. I suggest you come back to reality and preach the Word as it is. THEN see what happens. You need to get out of your little idyllic community and really see what is going on.
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Exactly…..well said!
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I posted a comment to your letter. I am wondering why I can’t see it here
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My comments on “Peter’s” letter are in parentheses. I very much doubt the existence of this “Peter,” who does not identify himself or his church. Why not?
Can I call you Frank? This is just pastor to pastor. Feel free to call me Peter. Anyway, I have to say I was flattered when I learned that your Decision America Tour took a detour off the beaten path to call upon us “small community churches.” We are nothing if not small. We seat 30-40 on a good Sunday. And we are a century old fixture of our small community. Most often we are overlooked and overshadowed by mega-churches and politically influential religious voices like your own. We don’t hold a candle to an auditorium filled with the music of a one hundred voice choir led by professional musicians. We probably will never be recognized in any nationally syndicated media. After all, we don’t do anything really “newsworthy.” We just preach the good news of Jesus Christ; love one another the best we can (which sometimes isn’t very well); feed the hungry that come to our doors; care for the sick; comfort the dying; and bury the dead. So thanks for thinking of us. Rest assured, we are ready to respond to your calls to prayer and action.
I have to say, though, that I was a little confused by your summons. Of all the things that worry me, loss of religious freedom for Christians in America isn’t one of them. I can’t say I have ever experienced anything in this country that could reasonably be called a restriction on my religious liberty, much less persecution. (Perhaps because your particular view of religious liberty aligns with that of the DNC.) When you started talking about attacks on Christianity, I thought you might have been referring to the racially motivated slaying of pastors and lay people at Mother Emmanuel church in Charleston some time back. (This was racism – nothing to do with religious persecution and was certainly not an attack on Christianity.) Or I figured you were referring to the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Egypt this past Palm Sunday (That certainly counts – and thanks to the Democrats, we have admitted and continue to admit folks having that mindset to our country). That’s what I call persecution. (How about identifying and condemning those that did this and the religion that motivated it?) But having to pay a judgment for refusing to bake a cake for a same sex couple in violation of the law against discrimination? This you call persecution? (How about being told to move from a lunch counter or to the rear of a bus? Is that not persecution? Was the breaking of laws in that case justified? If so, why? How does it differ from refusing to bake a cake, plan a same-sex wedding, or refusing to provide contraceptives to employees?) There’s a letter in the Bible, written by the Apostle Peter (ever heard of him?). He’s an expert on persecution, having been on the receiving end of it more than once. He says you don’t get divine kudos from suffering the consequences of breaking the law-even if you are a Christian. (MLK rightly got “kudos” for breaking several laws several times. As did Rosa Parks and those that occupied a lunch counter in a Greensboro Woolworth’s in 1960. All those acts were illegal at the time.) Moreover, there is a Christian fellow named Paul (aka Saul) who wrote a letter to a church in Rome nearly two thousand years ago. He said that if your enemy is hungry you should feed him (that’s in the Bible too). (If you love everyone, how do you have enemies?) So wouldn’t it have been the Christian way to have baked a cake for the same sex couple in your example, even if you deem them enemies (another assertion I don’t quite understand)? (You don’t understand the difference between simply providing food (feeding someone) and baking a celebratory cake that is to be a central part of a ritual you believe is contrary to your religious beliefs? Do you think the bakers would have refused to bake a cake that would have served simply as a dessert at the clients dinner table? I’m confused. (Your confusion arises from your one-sided view of what constitutes legitimate civil disobedience. Many devout Catholics believe abortion and even birth control equate to murder. So were the Little Sisters of the Poor and the owners of Hobby Lobby wrong to refuse to provide birth control as required by Obamacare? Evidently the courts did not think do.)
But in any event, Frank, let’s get over this persecution complex. Stop with the drama already! (Well said! Apply this advice to yourself.) You are not under attack just because you have to follow the rules like everyone else. (Depends on the rules. MLK and other civil-rights advocates broke rules. Lots of Germans followed rules laid down by Hitler and the Nazis. Were they right to do that? If so, why were ten executed at Nuremburg for war crimes?) Look, I understand the owners of this establishment you mention in your speech don’t approve of gay and lesbian people getting married. They don’t have to approve of them.(But they must behave as if they do?) But if they are going to do business in this country, they have to follow the law against discrimination-just like the rest of us. If you don’t like the rules, don’t join the game. It’s that simple. (That simple? Really? would you have so advised MLK? So civil disobedience is no longer an option?) Furthermore, I don’t understand why baking a cake for people whose conduct you find personally offensive is such a big deal.(It’s not necessarily conduct they oppose, it is rather a significant change to an institution that has served civilization well for a very long time. By the way, I tried to find a letter from you decrying treatment of homosexuals in Muslim countries, but without success.) Heck, Frank, if all of us small church pastors refused to bury everyone whose conduct we didn’t approve of, the country would be ten feet deep in corpses! (Golly! You seem to admit that you disapprove of a great many people. Where’s all this love? In fact, there are in fact plenty of pastors/small churches that will bury only certain people; e.g., many churches will provide funerals and graveside services for only former congregants, Rabbis that will bury only Orthodox Jews, etc. There also are pastors that will not perform same-sex marriages. You are in essence arguing against peaceful civil disobedience, which has a long and honorable history.)
I am struggling, too, with your claim that Donald Trump is a champion (albeit an unlikely one) for religious freedom. What freedoms are we talking about here, Frank? The freedom to lie with impunity? (Where were you during the last administration, when Obama lied repeatedly about the ACA – “if you like your doctor” …? When Hillary lied repeatedly about her emails? When she lied to the public about Benghazi but told Chelsea the truth?) The freedom to grab young girls by the genitals? (So talking about it [Trump] is worse that actually doing it [Bill Clinton]?) The freedom to discriminate against people of color in the sale and rental of real estate? (If you moved to Raleigh, NC, would you choose to buy a house in heavily black SE Raleigh? I’d bet not. Not one of my many liberal friends made such a choice. They bought homes in lily-white neighborhoods, joined white churches and white country clubs, and socialize exclusively with other whites – and only those in similar economic circumstance. Those that could afford it sent their children to almost lily-white private schools. Yet they vote for only members of one party, parrot the DNC party line, want open borders, want us to take in an unlimited number of “refugees,” etc., so long as they don’t have to live next to them, socialize with them, or send their kids to schools with them.) The freedom to refer to women as “dogs,” “fat pigs,” and “ugly”? The freedom to call your opponents “idiots,” “losers,” “liars” and “frauds”? (Unseemly, but seems to be allowed by the First Amendment. What do you have to say about those that called Trump (or Melania or Baron or Ivanka) names? Or Hillary calling Trump supporters “deplorable?”) The freedom to slander people with accusations of criminal conduct based on absolutely no evidence? (Are you referring to the endless drumbeat about collusion with Russia, for which there is not a shred of evidence? Or perhaps about the criticisms of Hillary’s mishandling of classified information, for which there was plenty of evidence?) By my count, the above violate at least four of the Ten Commandments (you will find those in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy-both in the Bible). (The ninth commandment is the only one that refers to any of these offenses [look them up]. Besides, the Ten Commandments appear in the Old Testament, and have little or nothing to do with Christianity.) If Donald Trump is the champion of American Christianity, God save it from its enemies! (Care to name them?)
All kidding aside, you might be right about God putting Donald Trump in the White House-though your reasons for so believing are probably different from what I might conjecture. (You seem to suggest that you think God put Trump in the White House to punish us. If so, punish for what, since your view of Christian behavior seems ascendant?) Still, how do you know that? Where did you get this info? I have to hand it to you, Frank, you sure do have the connections. (Odd. You seem to believe you have similar connections [insights], as does anyone who puts forth any God-based religious dictates. Every Muslim sect believes fervently that its beliefs are the right ones, as do Orthodox Jews. Catholics differ from Protestants, and you differ from Graham. Does not your belief that you are right and Graham is wrong suggest that you have better “connections” than he?) As I am sure you know, God does not consult with us small church pastors on weighty issues of that kind. (To my knowledge, if there is a God, he consults with no one. So you need not feel left out.) So it was kind of you to leak this classified intelligence to all of us who are evidently a good deal further away from the divine pipeline. So let me see if I have this figured out correctly: God doesn’t give a flying fruitcake if we deprive twenty-million people, most of them poor, of access to health care. (Exactly how is anyone in the U.S. deprived of access to health care? Emergency rooms are required by law to treat all comers – whether or not they can pay. Also, most of the twenty million uninsured are not poor. A substantial number of the “twenty million” are young, healthy folks who feel no need for the kind of policies mandated by Obamacare and found the penalty cheaper than the premium. Those same folks will not buy health insurance under the proposed new law. They will simply opt out and deprive themselves of health care. A great many of the rest are covered by Medicaid, Another fact you either do not know or prefer to distort is that many of those supposedly insured under Obamacare will be unable to afford the deductibles and copays, even though their increasing premiums are subsidized.) Nor is God particularly concerned about how men treat women in the workplace, (at least neither God nor Jesus address this issue in the Bible, so here again, you must have some direct pipeline to God.) how people of color are treated in the real estate market (ditto), how the hungry and homeless are cared for (or not), (You seem to imply that Graham is unconcerned about [or thinks God is unconcerned] such things. But to my knowledge, Graham has never suggested that.) but God flips out if we bake a cake for a same sex couple to celebrate their wedding? I have to be honest with you, Frank. I’m just not seeing it. Not in the Bible, not in the realm of rational common sense. (So who is allowed to express and attempt to abide by his or her interpretation of God’s will? You and not Graham? You and not the bakers? You but not the Little Sisters of the Poor? Are you the final arbiter of God’s will? Is your reading of the Bible to only correct one? In the Bible, Jesus never suggested that government (or the rulers of the day) make laws regarding the things that seem to concern you. Rather, he exhorted only individuals to help the poor – and even this he addressed far less often than the keys to heaven [“For I am the way … he that believeth in me .,..” etc.])
Here’s the thing, Frank. At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes. (How do you know what Jesus will ask at the Last Judgment?” No such questionnaire is described in the Bible. Do you have the “connections” you think Graham claims?) His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us. (Actually, Jesus’ primary concern (his first commandment) was love of God. His second of only two commandments was to love our neighbors as ourselves. He mentioned the poor 23 times (in the gospels) and heaven 69 times. His last living act was forgiving Barabbas, not exhorting us to help the poor. I don’t know of a single time Jesus mentioned “the imprisoned.”) No, I didn’t get that from any private chat with God. (Good to know.) We small church pastors have to rely on the Bible for our intel. I got this stuff from the Gospel of Matthew, 25th Chapter to be precise. As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.) (Indeed, you might read the entire gospel, concordance at hand. Everyone, you and Graham included, reads the bible selectively. What most, certainly you, seem to do is to find passages in the Bible that justify their particular presuppositions, and ignore the rest. The thing is, you can find Biblical justification for almost anything. And like you, many who cannot fine biblical justifications for laws or beliefs they like simply make them up.)
You know, Frank, I would like to think that we are brothers. I would like to believe that we are on the same side. I would like to believe that, beneath our differences, we worship the same God and follow the same Savior. (You provide little evidence of such wishes to believe.) But quite honestly, I don’t recognize the Jesus I learned from my parents, my Sunday School teachers, my pastors or my years of study and reflection on the Bible in your angry, fearful rhetoric. Yes, I will answer your call for prayer. But I will be praying for the real victims of persecution-the victims of racial discrimination (not religious discrimination?), sexual violence (Who are the worst perpetrators of sexual violence? Hint: They are not evangelicals or white males.) and bullying. (There are no biblical references to these acts. Jesus never mentioned racial discrimination, sexual violence, or bullying. I agree these things are bad, but it sounds like you are reading DNC talking points, not the Bible. Why attribute your view of morality to Jesus? Do you have a special connection to him?) I will answer your call to action. But I will be acting to establish health care as a right for all people (Neither in the Bible nor the constitution); making the college campus and the workplace spaces where women and girls need not fear being called “pigs,” “dogs” or “ugly” nor will they need to fear rich, white celebrity males who feel entitled to grab them by the genitals (You mean Bill Clinton?. How about disgraceful black rap lyrics calling for sexual violence against white bitches? Or BLM folks calling for death to cops?) I will respond to your call for action by working for a society in which no one needs to worry about where she (only women?) will sleep at night or where the next meal is coming from. (In such a society, what would motivate work and self-sufficiency?) You want prayer? You want action? You’ve got it.
Well, thanks again, Frank, for thinking about us small church folk. I appreciate your concern about our being persecuted and under attack. But don’t worry about us. We don’t have your money, your access to the halls of power or your seeming direct connection to the Almighty (Pot and kettle?). But we have the scriptures, we have prayer, and we are learning every day what it means to love God with all our hearts, souls, minds and strength and to love our neighbors as ourselves. (Sounds to me like you are done learning and have finalized your beliefs.) That’s all we need. You can keep your champion in the White House, thanks just the same.
Christ’s servant and yours,
Peter
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Awesome response Til Gilsson! Thanks so much for taking the time. I can’t resist adding one thing though … Rev. Peter: “But I will be praying for the real victims of persecution …” [Please add to your list …
(1) Conservatives who are routinely mistreated by the mainstream media, by its habitual trumpeting of news stories favorable to Democrats (e.g. real or imagined Russian collusion with Trump) and burying of news stories favorable to Republicans (e.g. conservatives’ free speech rights being denied on many college campuses including U.C. Berkeley). Even Trump doesn’t deserve 93% negative coverage (CNN & NBC, per a recent Harvard study) or anything close. See www. newsbusters.org for hundreds of examples.
(2) Parents of teens/tweens and the teens/tweens themselves, who are massive victims of a degraded culture glorifying sex, drugs, and profanity, courtesy of rich liberal elites.
(3) The kind of persecution Charlie received (see a few posts up). Multiply this by millions.]
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Sadly, our North American church has always been politically motivated….which is why we are in the mess we find ourselves in now. We have failed to show the real Gospel of Jesus Christ….and that is by loving one another! We Christians are only known for what we don’t like…don’t believe in. It isn’t US vs THEM….we are supposed to stand out by the way we love people. Our mega-churches and Christian leaders, for the most part, have been a huge disappointment as they are too busy running their “companies” rather than being a hospital to the sick, needy, poor, incarcerated and yes….non-believers.
Calling out Franklin is wrong….he has done lots of good things, he is human and makes mistakes like any of us, but he is in the limelight so he is a target for scrutiny. We need to pray for the church and their leaders, not call them out.
Judgment is for God alone (Thank goodness for that:)
From a little Urban Street Pastor from London, ON Canada.
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Reblogged this on mira prabhu and commented:
I admire this “small town pastor” – he is my idea of a true man of god: “I am struggling, too, with your claim that Donald Trump is a champion (albeit an unlikely one) for religious freedom. What freedoms are we talking about here, Frank? The freedom to lie with impunity? The freedom to grab young girls by the genitals? The freedom to discriminate against people of color in the sale and rental of real estate? The freedom to refer to women as “dogs,” “fat pigs,” and “ugly”? The freedom to call your opponents “idiots,” “losers,” “liars” and “frauds”? The freedom to slander people with accusations of criminal conduct based on absolutely no evidence? By my count, the above violate at least four of the Ten Commandments (you will find those in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy-both in the Bible). If Donald Trump is the champion of American Christianity, God save it from its enemies!”
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Trump was still the better choice when it came down to him and Hillary. Beside her, even with all his faults, Trump looks like a paragon of virtue. Remember…God hates the shedding of innocent blood. Hillary, wanted more, making expansion of abortion and increased funding to Planned Parenthood a cornerstone of her political platform. And who can forget what happened in Rwanda? Along with mega corruption coming out the ying yang at every turn!
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“His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us. No, I didn’t get that from any private chat with God. We small church pastors have to rely on the Bible for our intel.”
Where do you preach? I would love to join your church.
And, btb, “Franklin Graham isn’t a disappointed, it’s the other way around.”
This comment is either a Freudian slip, or just evidence of slippage.
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The truth I take from this article is not what Mr Graham is or is not. It is what I am and am not. And the writing provokes thought, reflection and hopefully action to love more and judge less.
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What a snarky letter. We know people by their fruits.
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Thank you Peter. My thoughts exactly. From Kara, a small church pastor with a Bible
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Why is it that voices who decry the shedding of innocent blood due to abortion don’t seem to care about the shedding of innocent blood in places like Iraq where their “bible believing” leaders insist on sending troops to fight a “war on terror ” that they themselves helped create.
The hypocrisy of this rhetoric is what turns people away from Christianity. If Jesus came back today, whose sin do you think he would expose? The couple who want a cake made to celebrate their commitment of love to one another? Or the hate filled rants that come from pastors all over your country against homosexuality?, as if that were the only thing mentioned by Paul. He also mentions gossip and greed which are actually more evident in the lives of Christians than there are gay marriages to rant over
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Nira. I don’t know to whom you are referring. I’ve never met anyone who decried the shedding of innocent blood who did not care about those suffering all over the world. Certainly Franklin Graham is working in Iraq (and many other areas around the world where people are in critical need). His organization was one of the first to go in to provide emergency assistance to victims of ISIS, and other forces. He has literally helped millions of people and saved many lives through his commitment to helping those in need. Your argument is simply a straw man.
As for the ones who refused to bake a cake, perhaps you are not aware but Christ gave a very specific definition of marriage. (Matthew 19: 1-12) and it does not include so-called “homosexual marriage”.
The marriage relationship is considered sacred. It is so sacred, in fact, that He likens His relationship with his Church to a marriage where the Church is called the Bride of Christ. To participate in anything which defiles this sacred institution would be to take part in a desecration. Why should anyone be forced to do that? Perhaps you don’t agree that it is sacred. But millions of Christians who respect the Word of God do. And even then, why would you force anyone to violate their deeply held religious beliefs. Would you force a Muslim to bake a cake for a ceremony where someone was burning the Koran? Would you bake a cake to celebrate Ashley Madison’s success in promoting adultery in America?
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“Or the hate filled rants that come from pastors all over your country against homosexuality?, as if that were the only thing mentioned by Paul.”
The vast majority of criticisms of homosexuality by pastors I’ve met are not hate filled or anything close to it. Is it possible that you’re giving the media freak shows like the Westboro Baptist Church way too much weight? Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that hatred by pastors is common?
If, instead of gays, it was adulterers, or gossips, who demanded acceptance of their sin from the church in spite of overwhelming biblical teaching condemning these sins, then the church would spend more time denouncing these sins and less on homosexuality. And it would be right to do so.
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It is adulterers. Jesus said if someone divorces and remarries, they are adulterers. Not only do they demand acceptance of their sin, they get it, no questions asked.
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Amen
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That is simply a straw man! It is not true. Pro life people care about the loss of all innocent human life. Interesting to note that Rev Graham, the object of so much mean spirited hatred on this blog was one of the first to go into Iraq and Syria, at great personal risk, to help those who were being victimized by all sides in the conflict.
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Reblogged this on Russ Skinner's Blog and commented:
Very nice, irenic, presentation.
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I don’t know about a divine pipeline to the Almighty to show respect to the President as God’s appointed leader. Seems to me you could rely on the Bible and the parts you (hopefully not conveniently) left out about respecting God’s appointed kings and rulers. You could start with Daniel 2:20, Romans 13, and 1 Peter 2:13-17. That’s in the Bible, Pete. It’s a good book. You should try reading it sometime. Oh and btw… If you’re going to lecture Christian bakers about following the law and avoiding political agemdas and in the next breath push an agenda of your own and cry foul because you disapprove of our elected leaders. my friend, you’re no better.
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Well said! Thanks
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I believe this open letter is at times guilty of being misinformed and/or fallacious reasoning. Here are three examples …
1. “God doesn’t give a flying fruitcake if we deprive twenty-million people, most of them poor, of access to health care.” This is a wild exaggeration. The facts are that uninsured people (many of whom are twenty-somethings rationally deciding not to pay exorbitant Obamacare premiums and taking advantage of the pre-ex feature in the unlikely event they do get sick) get on average about 70% of the health care as insured folks. E.R. rooms are for the insured and uninsured alike. Plus, the poorest Americans are on Medicaid. These crucial facts are often ignored by the uninformed or dishonest left, as was recently done by a well known late night comedian.
2. The fact that social injustice is wrong doesn’t negate the fact that certain sexual behaviors, including homosexuality, are also wrong. Or, as every four year old knows, two wrongs don’t make a right. Moreover, sexual sin is mentioned first in most of the NT’s vice lists, and usually earned the death penalty in the OT.
3. “At the last judgment, Jesus doesn’t ask anyone about who they voted for, how many times they have been divorced, what their sexual history or orientation is or for whom they did or did not bake wedding cakes. His sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed ‘least’ among us.” Point 1–The author appears to be justifying adultery (and other sexual sin) on the grounds that it’s not mentioned in Matt 25. This is, er, problematic. Point 2–Matt 25 is about sins of omission, whereas Rev 21:8 (“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”) is about sins of commission. Therefore these two verses are most likely referring to two different judgments. In any event, it behooves everybody, including the sexually immoral, to heed Rev 21:8 as well (even if the punishment doesn’t last forever, as i believe … google Gerry Beauchemin for more on this).
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I think maybe these types of mega pastors bring many to Christ and then they go on to grow in the word with others hopefully. For the bringing to Christ I believe God forgives them much. But because these mega pastors also know so much does God also hold them much more accountable? That will all be between them and the Lord. They serve a purpose. Most anyway.
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My comment to the nicely written memo to Franklin Graham by the small church minister. I liked nearly everything he said about the basic issues of our faith. Love in service of those in need regardless of their opinions on race, religion, sexual orientation etc is our Christian calling. I don’t agree that we should make an exception to the politics (remember, the Samaritan) the objects of our Love in Service toward one another. My guy didn’t get elected Our Country chose a President (in spite of his limitations). Our President needs encouragement, help, insight, and support Right now we don’t need to have half the country.,helping our enemies by trying to destroy the presidency. That won’t solve the problems. If we don’t like the results of this election we should start supporting someone who is more appealing. I admit I didn’t even volunteer to help my guy. I just let things work out without my help—It didn’t work out. I’m partly to blame. Meanwhile it is not the mission of the ministers for Christ to become mean spirited revolutionaries and judgemental in a spiritual sense blaming half the population for making the wrong choice …May we stick to Christ’s mission. I wish…… Jack McMahan –a retired Christian Minister age 84- with a private ministry of promoting and working with the assignments of Jesus in service to those in need regardless of their issues or politics.
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THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! You have laid it all out so clearly! I agree with you completely and appreciate your words of wisdom….frim the Bible!
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Well it would be good if this had some truth in it. It is mostly all lies and half truths. I will use the pushygrabbing you said he did. You know he never touched any ppushy and yet this man who claims to be a true man of God stated this lie twice!!
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Amen Peter!! We need more Jesus Followers to stand against this kind of Pharisees teaching. .Hypocrites like graham and his kind is not Preaching the Word. Jesus called them Vipers,that’s why we had better know the Word for ourselves. ..
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Nicely done!
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Shame on you for deleting all the objections and keeping all the praises.
You are son of Evil. Stop misguiding people by your political nonsense and get a life…
May God have mercy on you…
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Madness: Campus Leftists Target Professor Who Objected to Demands That White People Leave Campus … https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2017/05/30/madness-seeking-safe-space-oregon-students-of-color-demand-white-peers-faculty-leave-campus-n2332877. Read it and weep.
While not persecution against Christians, it’s deeply disturbing nevertheless.
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Well said Tom. It seems that people like Peter and those who support his view have simply adopted the non Christian secular culture of our day and therefore can not be aware of how practicing Christians are really being treated.
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I read through many of the comments to Pete’s letter and thoughts regarding Franklin Graham. If everyone would focus their energies and pray for this country and its leadership, letting God focus on the big picture, and the rest of us just focus on helping out our fellow man…. that would be a huge step in the right direction. Name calling, passing judgment, and spending energy saying your opinion is the correct one, is just doing what the devil wants you to do – spinning our wheels on our own thoughts, and ignoring God’s two greatest commandments.
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Not going to pretend to be anything but the atheist daughter of two Presbyterian small-church pastors who fully supports equality in marriage and freedom of religion. I did not fully support any candidate in the most recent election, dislike Trump very much, and am obviously not a fan of anything “Graham”, except the crackers. I think your message is a little off.
In a nation of freedom, one should absolutely be free to refuse service to anyone they choose. In a nation of freedom, those folks who don’t want to bake a cake for gays (or blacks or women) don’t have to. Those gays (and people of color, and women with and without Y chromosomes) should shout it from the rooftops (or better, social media) so that those of us who know better and believe in individual rights might never go to that bakery.
It’s the laws that are bad. Should a Christian in an Islamic nation profess allegiance to Mohammad, because it is the law? Daniel is hailed as a Biblical hero for refusing to follow a law that would force him to break his religious code. God protected him under the most dire of circumstances, pleased that his child trusted in him enough to follow. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego went into a “fiery furnace”, fully clothed, after refusing to worship another. Again, so beloved by God that even their clothes went undamaged as reward for their loyalty.
It’s not just the Old Testament, either. The rules surrounding the denial of Christ are pretty clear. You’re not supposed to do it. But in refusing to deny Christ, the end cries of celebrated martyrs everywhere, they’re breaking the law. It’s the laws that are bad.
Assuming one’s religious beliefs do not extend to harming others, there should be no law preventing the practice of those beliefs. Refusal of cake? Not direct harm. Poisoning the cake? Harm. Refusal to feed the hungry? No direct harm. Stealing from someone for the purpose of feeding another? Direct harm. Feeding the hungry? Personal satisfaction and other benefits. It’s pretty simple when you look at it from a strict perspective of religious freedom.
Your stance seems to be that everyone should be forced to follow the social aspects of your belief system. I believe that you should be free to follow all aspects of your belief system. Timothy doesn’t admonish believers to force everyone to provide for their relatives. Timothy says anyone who does not provide for his relatives, and especially his immediate family, has denied the faith. That’s perfectly fine by me, and millions of others who don’t follow your path. Yup, I think you should feed your family, especially your immediate family. But unlike you, I don’t take that as a charge, a commandment so strong I would have it enforced by threat of violence. Yes, if you don’t pay your taxes, if you fail to support these ideals, it is under threat of violence and imprisonment.
Just like the aforementioned Islamic nation. Those laws that killed the innocent girl who refused to deny Christ? They’re exactly the same as the laws forcing private businesses to serve perfectly pleasant gay couples. They’re laws enforcing a social ideal over the individual right to freedom of religion.
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In reply to Katie Short
I haven’t been responding to most of the comments on this thread individually. But I have to say, yours caught my attention. It isn’t every day that I find myself on this side of a freedom of religion claim with an atheist. Anyway, as I see it, this is really not about religion at all. It is simply an instance of discrimination. I understand that the owners of the bakery don’t approve of gay people getting married, but they are not being asked to conduct the marriage or participate in the ceremony. They are simply being asked to bake a cake for the reception. Believe me, I have been to enough wedding receptions to know that they are about as religious as a tailgate party.
Nevertheless, even assuming the contrary, freedom to practice religion under the First Amendment is limited, as are all rights. Just as your right of free speech does not entitle you to shout “bomb” in a crowded airplane, so my freedom of religion does not entitle me to offer up my daughter as a burnt sacrifice-even if I believe in my heart that it is what God requires. My freedom to practice my religion ends where someone else’s nose begins. So, too, I am free to practice and profess my moral convictions. I am not free to use the public marketplace to impose them on you. That is what I believe the wedding cake case was really all about.
The kind of libertarian freedom you advocate works great for those of us in the majority. For minorities, not so much. The freedom of white southerners to deny services to people of color meant that a black driver had to be sure to empty his bladder before crossing Georgia because there might well not be any available “colored” facilities along the way. If the courts had continued to recognize this “freedom,” how long do you think it would have been until the white majority found it in its heart to grant equal protection? That is the problem with the so-called freedom to discriminate. It is simply a license for the majority to bully the minority. A bully isn’t “persecuted” just because a law puts a stop to his discriminatory conduct. The Bill of Rights was written to protect minorities from precisely this abuse, namely, the tyranny of the majority.
In sum, there are standards of conduct that apply to all equally who choose to engage in commerce. Respect for equal protection under the law is one of them. You don’t have to like or agree with anyone who comes into your store, but if you avail yourself of all the laws and publicly supported benefits that protect and enable you to conduct your business, and if you hold yourself out to the public as a vendor, then you had better be prepared to serve the public, even the parts of it you don’t like.
And yes, just as there are reasonable limits to the exercise of one’s rights, so there are limits to what the government can demand. For the most part, I believe our courts have done a good job of keeping these two principles in balance. There are times when unjust laws cry out to be broken. I am prepared to go to prison defending anyone’s freedom to practice their religion (or lack thereof) from real government overreach and genuine majoritarian intimidation. But I won’t defend discrimination in the course of public commerce on religious grounds or any other pretext. I don’t care much for bullying.
Anyway, thanks again for your thoughtful response.
Best
Peter
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Revolsen. You state that… (quote) “they are not being asked to conduct the marriage or participate in the ceremony. They are simply being asked to bake a cake for the reception”. But that IS participating in the wedding event. That is where your whole argument fails. If it were a birthday cake, or something else like it, they would have provided the service to the self described homosexuals. And if someone else, who were not homosexual requested the cake for the same homosexual “wedding”, then they would have similarly received the same response. So it was NOT a case of discriminating against someone who is homosexual. It is precisely because they could not participate in something which seriously violated their conscience.
Would you bake a cake for a party which is celebrating the success of Ashley Madison’s promotion of adultery in America?
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I think I get the message Peter is sharing – I myself pastor a small congregation. I do not share the judging, personal criticism, and cynicism that Peter so skillfully uses. I think Peter’s perspective could have been as effective without taking Graham’s call in such a personal note.
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I love this letter!!! Peter you are so on track with your message.
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Peter…agreed. Your condescending tone is the turn off. It’s easier to hear someone with valid points when there is the presence of respect. Your button has clearly been pushed. Your asking if he has read books of the bible and the constant use of his name are a turn off. Regardless of the size of your church community, you have a giant responsibility with weighty consequences when your words are used with disregard, sarcasm, and a focus to put anyone in their place…especially publicly. Again, valid points but the delivery stinks.
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A well articulated point of view.
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I’m glad this was a personal letter.
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if you really are a pastor, I understand why you only have 30-40 people at your church.
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What a wonderful letter from this small church Preacher!! What Franklin Graham is saying is very sad and contradictory to what the Bible says.
I truly don’t understand how any Christian can support Trump.
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Trump was the lesser of the two evils by a long shot. How could any Christian support a woman who made the expansion of the killing of unborn children a centerpiece of her political platform. What Franklin is saying is Biblical, and is true the the historic teachings of the Christian faith which have stood the test of time (for over 2000 years). The problem is that so many pastors and churches have strayed so far from the truth of the Word of God that they no longer understand what it means.
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WOW….What utter nonsense. Peter, certainly Satan has desired to sift you as wheat…that’s in the Bible also.
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Saw this post from a link off InternetMonk. Sarcasm laced with self righteousness. Hmm…don’t remember reading diatribes like this in the Word. I must have skipped that part.
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Amen.
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Thank you!
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It’s nice to hear reasoned debate, from either side.
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Thank you Peter for putting my thoughts on paper in a much more kind gracious with humor way….i have realized recently that often in America we care more about the who rather then what is being said. Trump is republican done. Frank is a grahm done. Obama is democrat done…and out…you a man of truth and faith became my new hero today. Not because of who you are but because of how you treat others….blessings
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Some leaving comments below show concern towards the unborn. I will share my latest concern for the unborn babies of our country.
Nearly half of all pregnancies are covered by Medicaid. I found this a high number, but this is according to the CDC.
That means, nearly half of all unborn babies rely on Medicaid if their mothers were to develop gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, preeclampsia or any other treatable complication that could result in death or deformations to the baby.
I can’t understand how anyone who claims to be pro-life would be in favor of taking away life saving medical care from an unborn baby. And, yet, many pro-life Republicans in the house voted to do just that with the Healthcare bill (which reduces Medicaid). And some pro-life senators have supported the Senate version, which will also reduce Medicaid.
Please, stand up for the unborn.
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Kathryn. I’m not sure who you are aiming your comments at, but since I have made references several times about the dreadful plight of unborn children in the USA and other western nations, I will respond.
I totally agree that the unborn children need proper medical care and proper medicaid or other health insurance coverage. I also agree with you that those supposedly pro life Republicans who fail to provide this fall terribly short of their moral responsibility. I certainly would never say that the Republican party is “pro-life”. There are, indeed, pro life Members of Congress within the Republican Party and there are some very die hard pro abortion Members as well. There are also, as you have rightly pointed out, some who claim to be pro life, yet are not.
Two wrongs do not make a right. Abortion is wrong, and failing to provide proper health coverage for unborn children is also wrong. While this abortion issue — which literally is a life and death matter for the most innocent and vulnerable members of society — should not be made into a Republican/Democrat political football. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party has taken a stance which is so pro abortion, that it is impossible for anyone who is truly pro life to take them seriously. You may have noticed that President Trump is battling both political parties. Those most opposed to him within the Republican Party are also those who fall short the furthest on their love and commitment to the protection of the unborn. This does not mean that I believe that Trump is necessarily committed to the pro life cause. The jury is still out on that. Still, he did keep his promise to put someone who is not a die hard abortion advocate on the Supreme Court. So pro life people are thankful for that. Hilary would never have done that, nor would Bernie Sanders have done so.
If you truly are a pro life person who cares about the medical care and health insurance for the unborn child, then I suggest that pointing out the need for such protection for the unborn would be a very good way to get more political capital for more effective healthcare for all. But right now, the alternative — Obamacare and the Democrat package — is virtually an “open season” on the unborn child.
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Beautifully written! I’m s pastors wife and I agree with everything you said Peter. I also attend a small church and believe that ministers such as Rev Graham are what I call “Hollywood ” Christians. You know make believe. Thank you for writing this response
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We are all on the same team, let’s all hope we all follow the instructions from the coach, we do not want to get benched. Remember – Jesus did mention the two most important Commandments.
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Outstanding! Thank you for speaking on the behalf of real Christians. I will pray for brother Frank as it seems politics have interfeared with his prayers. It’s easy for this to happen so I will pray that his true heart listens to God. I will pray also for our government and our country, just as the Bible asks us to do. Thank you.
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The separation of church and state does not mean that we remain silent when there are serious injustices occurring. Christ’s strongest words of condemnation were to the Pharisees who were “neglecting justice, mercy and faithfulness”. Christ accused them of “straining gnats” while “swallowing camels”. To remain silent while God’s people are being persecuted, or when innocent people are being mistreated and abused, would be to do what the Pharisees were doing: neglecting justice. Rev Graham, by NOT neglecting justice, is being obedient to Christ. His ministry is also providing mercy and help to the poor and needy all over the world, while he remains faithful to the moral teachings of Jesus Christ.
It is hard to comprehend why so many people here are so quick to malign and cast their mean spirited stones against this man of God who is doing exactly what Christ commanded us all to do.
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While it is possible to separate the institutions of the church and state (which is Biblical), it is not possible to separate politics from religion. So much of politics is based on one’s moral worldview, and that is determined by one’s religious views. Nor does the Biblical doctrine of the separation of church and state mean that Christians must keep quiet in the public square. Indeed, Christ’s strongest words of condemnation were to the Pharisees who he accused of “straining gnats” while “swallowing camels”, because they “tithed of mint, rue and cumin, yet “neglected the weightier issues of the law: justice, mercy and faithfulness”. The prophet Amos cried out: “let justice roll down like a river and righteousness like a never ending stream”. For far too long those who shepherd the flock have been silent. I am delighted that Rev Graham has spoken out strongly — both in defense of the unborn child as well as all who are suffering, displaced, hungry and in need, as well as those Christians who are being persecuted.
For you to imply that “real Christians” would never support such a man of God is simply old fashioned judgmentalism.
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What is your full name, Peter? Of what congregation are you the pastor, and where do do you meet? How is it that you were called into the ministry? ~ Tony
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Wow, so much mockery and sarcasm! The Bible warns about taking sides with our enemy, the accuser of the brethren. I think we put ourselves in a dangerous position when we start condemning ministries.
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Amen
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Well said, Fern! God bless you.
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#1 Health Care is NOT a right!! Is it necessary..YES, but not a right. The Government has NO business in the HEALTH CARE business. I believe its up to the Church to take care of her flock. Always used to be.I don’t want the Government telling me what to do with my medical decisions! Like poor #charliegard..the government over there is telling the parents they have no right to take him for care and treatment elsewhere, even though they raised LOTS of money to pay for it themselves!! Who do they think they are (the gov’t) to decide Charlie must die. ONLY GOD can make that decision!
As far a the other things this “Peter” guy said…YES we WILL have to answer for choices we make: divorce, sexual choices (btw: homosexual activities is “an abomination” …yep in the bible!! Lev 18:22, 1 Cor.6:9-10, 1 Tim 1:8-10, Rom 1:18-32), Greed, Adultery, All Sexual sins, murder, lying, stealing, cheating…etc. WE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR ALL OF THIS. We will NOT be saved by Grace or works alone!! We are all Fallen…but there is REDEMTION In the name of Jesus Christ. BUT.. we MUST ask forgiveness AND give up all sinful activities!! Then you can be a new creation in Christ.
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I could not even make myself read this entire blog. The snide tone you took. For example your references that something is in the Bible when writing to Franklin Graham. I would say he knows the Bible as well as anyone, including you. I will say you both probably know it better that me. Your tone is just off-putting. Seems to be maybe even un-Christian.
I am not defending Mr. Graham. I agree with you that we in the US do not experience any real persecution.
I disagree absolutely with your contention that as I Christian I should be more than happy to make anyone a cake celebrating their life of sin. If we change the subject to something else does it still work. Any other sin. Maybe the lawyer for a death row inmate who murdered his parents wants a cake celebrating that? Possibly someone has reached a milestone in their Wicken journey and wants a celebratory cake? Does anything here go too far?
Then I must admit I didn’t read the rest of your blog for the aforementioned reason. Give it some thought and maybe apologize to Franklin Graham for being such a wiseass in your tone.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Cordially,
David
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Maybe the song “They Will Know We are Christians by Our Love” needs to be changed to “They will know we are Christians by our ability to use sarcasm to tear down and slander our fellow Christians”.
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My father was a pastor at a small church, I grew up with religion. I left the church because of all the back stabbing and non-Christian behaviour I have seen in the churches. Not all churches though. I was reading everyone’s comments and I don’t see love in the church anymore. I see churches taking money for themselves, making rich pastors. I see churches spreading hate, and the puzzling one is the support for Donald Trump. He has shown no Christian behaviour, only spreading hate and lies. I just have to ask myself if this President is someone Jesus would support, or would he have thrown the whole lot out of the church with the money lenders?
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You mean “back stabbing” and “spreading hate” like this letter — and your own comments — does to Rev Graham?
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Dear Pete, (ok if I call you Pete?) You are misrepresenting the facts of the baker, photographers, florists, and reception hall folks. Perhaps that is why your church hasn’t grown… Do you mis-state the facts in the Bible? You know the old saying? God guides where God provides… You see, the facts in the wedding cases are as follows: 1)The “discriminated ones” were customers of these folks for a while. Some for years. 2)The businesses gladly served them and talked to them and got to know them over that time. That’s called loving your neighbor as yourself. No discrimination there right? Of course not. 3)Then one day the customers decided to get married. 4)Knowing full well the religious beliefs of the provider, they chose to “ask” them to participate in something the Bible clearly says is a sin. I am sure you know the verses – don’t you? Or do you have a Ben Franklin Bible with all kinds of cut out verses such that it looks like a block of swiss cheese? If so, you might want to go buy a new one and start preaching it cover to cover like good Pastors do. So, ask yourself this: Is it the “christian” thing to do to force someone to participate in something they don’t believe in? Let’s say the couple asked the provider to participate in a lie or participate in witchcraft or some other occult practice. Would it be discrimination to politely refuse to do that? Is it “loving” to force someone to do something their religion spells out as sin? You see, there is an agenda afoot and you seem to be right in the thick of it yourself. That agenda is to create a christianity that has that Bible cut up so that it conforms to this culture of sin. Oh, almost forgot. When we die and arrive at the pearly gates. All God will want to know is if our name is written in the book of life. You know that verse don’t ya? Or did you cut that one out. Know Jesus – Know life.
The Lord bless you and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
And give you peace. Amen
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Well said! Thanks for speaking the truth!
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Excellent Open Letter! It’s a true reflection of many level headed, fair, intelligent, and caring Americans!
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Awesome article.|
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First, I do not believe people of faith, Christians in this case, would be anything but gracious in their responses to this issue. The writer is a great example if one is needed. Secondly, I recall years ago, when Franklin’s father, was held in high regard by Christians in a wide range of denominational involvements. His passion, his kindness and his willingness to engage in difficult conversations and even to grow demonstrably spiritually, were respected by people of a variety of Christian groups. I also recall that he and Franklin did not agree and that Franklin was criticized for using his Father’s organization and ultimately changing programs to reflect less tolerant, more critical and more judgmental fear driven points of view.
Case in point here is respondents edgy anger in expressing opinions which are just that…their opinions. Franklin Graham is nothing like his father, he has his own brand of Old Testament (pre-Christian) theology that espouses the very kind of thinking Jesus sought to change. Sadly, We still don’t get it. Many Christians are gravely limited and
Ignorant of their beliefs, still hanging on to the Ten Commandments instead of embracing the Beatitudes that Jesus taught!
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Sarah. Your comments, as well, are simply “your opinions”. Having known Rev Graham for many decades I would also venture to say that he knows the Word of God a lot better than you, including the Beatitudes, I’m sure that Rev. Graham, if he were unfortunate enough to read all the slander about him being written in this blog, would certainly find solace in Christ’s words: “Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake! Rejoice and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in Heaven”. Instead of opining on whether or not Rev Franklin Graham’s Ministry is in keeping with that of his father Rev Billy Graham (and I know for a fact that Billy totally supports what his son is doing and saying), its better to understand Christ’s words when he said: “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled”. True righteousness demands faithfulness to God’s moral law!
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I read most all of the comments written here, but had to quit when I saw so much judgement and ungodly comments being thrown around. Matthew 7:1-3 says, 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
1 Peter 2:11-17 says. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. 13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; 14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: 16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. 17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
Romans 13:1 says, Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
James 4:11 says, Don’t speak evil against each other, dear brothers and sisters. If you criticize and judge each other, then you are criticizing and judging God’s law. But your job is to obey the law, not to judge whether it applies to you.
Psalm 105:15 says, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
The slanderous and negative comments made about Reverend Franklin Graham, his father Billy Graham and our President, are in total violation of Gods word and His teaching and commandments to us. No man is perfect, except Jesus Christ who was God manifested in human form. We have no right to judge any man, whether he be our neighbor, our butcher, our pastor or our President. God has a plan for mankind and has had from the beginning. I promise He knows what He is doing. The people He has placed in positions of authority (Romans 13:1), He placed there for a reason, and only He knows what that reason is. But because of the position men hold, God commands us to respect those men(1 Peter 2:13-14). If however a pastor teaches falsely, God commands us to separate ourselves from them and to pray for them. We are further commanded to love them. God does not give us the authority to slander and belittle our fellow Christians, even if our beliefs are not the same. I may not particularly like some of the things our President has done, but I am not His judge, God is. I believe Gods word, and therefore know that His judgement will be just, just as it will be for all of us, for we are ALL sinners. The same is true for those who spread false teachings, who ever they may be. All I can say is that those of you who have taken part in this slanderous dialog, you are in my prayers. Please stop this ungodly communication. There are times when God wants us to keep our mouths shut.
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Thank you for your comments. Very well articulated! God bless you.
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The only real Christian ministers left are those who minister in small churches. What about the nondenominational megachurches? They’re just “Six Flags Over Jesus” circuses feeding reich-wing, blasphemous offal to the masses.
The Son(s) of God must be so proud.
Alternative.
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Spoken from a TRUE Christian
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Peter, “My children hear my voice.” The Lord said it. It’s In the holy scriptures. We ALL have direct access to the Lord and a “direct pipeline” to hear from Him.
Personally. Individually. As a group. In the churches and synagogues. In our homes as a family. Or in the wilderness when we are all alone seeking the Lord’s will. No pastor or priest or rabbi is required to be present. While there is “wisdom in the council of many” there is also a “still small voice” that speaks to us directly. All believers have access to the Lord’s voice and the Holy Spirit, the “helper” that was promised us when Jesus rose from the dead and ascended Into heaven. The Holy Spirit supports the scriptures at all times and is a “comforter.” Every individual Christian should be hearing directly from the Lord through the Holy Spirit and hearing God’s voice. Because “My children hear my voice.” He said it. It’s in His Word. So it is. That spirit, if we will listen to it, will bind all believers together in LOVE
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Perfect. Thank you, from another small church pastor who relies on the Bible, not on Franklin Graham’s version of God.
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Rev Graham’s understanding of God is based on solid Biblical exegesis. This understanding has led him to the establishment of one of the most effective organizations in the world in badly needed help to refugees, the sick, starving and hungry people, and others in need. Hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) of people are alive today because of the work of this man. Many others have also found the eternal message of salvation through his preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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I agree with much of what you’ve said, but on this critical, life and death point, I’ll comment. His sole concern at judgement is whether or not we accepted the gift of salvation by grace alone. Good works do not get us entrance to heaven. Good works in the life of a Christian are an indication of gratefulness to God for His FREE gift of salvation by the shed blood of Christ. Please don’t have people think that they can “good work” their way to heaven. Ephesians 2:8-9
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No doubt a left wing snowflake.
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An open letter to one of the top pop greed/power mongering pharisee charlatan profits. Let’s strive to be like Jesus, which is exactly not like Frank! ❤️God, ❤️people (His human creation that He loves dearly). #TheLoveOfMoneyIsTheRootOfAllEvil
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I see you, emspears, are another applicant for the job. Sorry to inform you that the position of “Accuser of the Brethren” has already been filled. I’m sure, of course, that the current holder of that title greatly appreciates all the assistance which you are giving to him, but I don’t recommend the remuneration package he is offering.
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Frank, Dobson, Pence, Cruz, Trump….? Which charlatan Pharisee creepy pervert exactly are you referring to? Or, does it even matter as there are many that fit the bill, right Mel? Are you by association admitting you are one of them too? I sense the need for some pest conTROLL here.
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You can read Rev 12; 7-11 if you really want to know which “creepy pervert’ I am referencing. And it isn’t any of the names you mentioned.
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Reblogged this on ericspearsblog and commented:
An open letter to one of the top pop greed/power mongering pharisee charlatan profits. Let’s strive to be like Jesus, which is exactly not like Frank! ❤️God, ❤️people (His human creation that He loves dearly). #TheLoveOfMoneyIsTheRootOfAllEvil
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That letter is awesome.! Peter just said what I’ve been saying for quite awhile now. What I’m seeing from many people calling themselves Christians is nothing like the Christian way I learned.! The New Testament is full of the words of Christ, and he said none of the things I hear those people saying.
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To Malia of comment #13
Research
http://celebritynetworth.wiki/franklin-graham-net-worth/
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Peter, may I call you a devil’s child. Politically correctness is an act of Satanism, not God. Read your BIBLE. Don’t call yourself a pastor if you preach political correctness. There’s a place in hell for anyone who teaches it’s ok to go against God, because it’s politically correct. You are sending people to hell and will answer dearly for that. May God help you, and you find truth in God’s Holy WORD!
I’m from a small country church, and political correctness is not God’s intention.
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Wow talk about judgmentalism! You will be judged -mr minister – more severely than the common man , according to the Word of God. Do you read it?
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Thank you Sandra! Well said! God bless you.
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You know, there is one main being who is called the accuser of the brethren. His name is Satan. When I hear Christian slamming other Christians I know who is behind the slam. If you are in a small church and are not happy move. Pride comes any various forms and sometimes it comes from getting one’s feelings hurt because others are in different situations than one’s own. I grew up in small churches and there is nothing wrong with them unless they don’t want to reach out to people the way Jesus commanded. I used to wonder how a pastor could be content to pastor a small church. I found the answer one day after asking God how they could do it like that. John the Baptist was seeing all of his followers leave him to follow Jesus. John said a man can only receive what is given him from heaven. I know Pastors of large churches who served faithful for years at smaller churches and I believe that the greater numbers of people who attend their churches comes from what they receive from heaven. The Apostle Paul mentioned some who preach the gospel out of wrong motives and his response was – at least the gospel is being preached.
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Amen. 🙏🏻 Where can I attend your church, Pastor Peter?
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167 Palisade Ave., Bogota, NJ. Be glad to have you drop in.
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When I went to the voter box it had 2 names on it. Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump. I decided based on each ones background and track record that Trump was the lesser of the two evils. I love Jesus And He loves me. It is also written in the word that in the end He is the one that causes the rulers to come into power. That was very evident by the win that Trump received in the face of all polls saying to the contrary. If you think you know better than that talk to Jesus the living God about it. Otherwise accept the whole word of God. Forgive the unforgivable as He does and support the ruler of our country as we have been instructed to also in the word.
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I am a christian and do agree 100% with pastor Peter. These mega churches are run by families, they are the Trumps of Christianity. Tell me how many of you would honestly say if you wrote a letter asking for help to pay for your rent/mortgage, medical expense or food would get check sent to you…I challenge you to do and see their response. I am sure, eh maybe you’ll get a pre-printed prayer for your times troubled at best. My parents are poor humble people, my father a pastor all his life, not in a mega church (hence his poverty) never failed to send a check to these mega churches every month and now in the older age cries every day because they don”t even have money to plan for burial when their time comes. My mother with dementia and stroke, now lives in a county nursing home, thanks to the expansion of Medicaid my father can afford his co-pay, which I understand they may loose (thanks to this Godly appointed president Mega churches claims). Dont tell me their lavished lifestyle with multiple mansions all over, private jet, and armada of cars is what Christ preached. I grew up in the church, still active christian and have not once felt prosecuted for my belief. I do however see people (deemed sinners) by “self righteous” christian are being prosecuted and bullied day in and out in the name of Christianity. I for one have learned that I am a sinner just like the man and woman next to me, I have no place to judge. God is the only judge, God will determine your worthiness based on how we followed and practice our christian faith. I don’t recall any part of “love one another” came with condition and that’s what too many self righteous Christians are doing. Be blessed, read the bible pay closed attention to what Christ teachings are.
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Karen. For someone who has (to quote you) ” no place to judge”. you sure have demonstrated both your willingness and determination to do so. That’s called hypocrisy.
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Judge not, lest yes be judged
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Mel, et al, let’s stop pretending that this president and the republican party care about the unborn. The republican party is trying to cut Medicaid, which provides financial support for pregnancy care and a large percentage of childbirths. Without medical care, women and children will die. Republicans are gutting environmental protection laws that prevent water and air pollution, and toxic chemicals that have damaging effects on potential life and currently living children. Republicans have decided not to decide on banning the use of the pesticide Chlorpyrifos proven to cause autism, ADHD and cognitive delays in children exposed in utero. That pesticide is used on apples, oranges, vegetables. It can’t be washed off. Actually living people also sicken and die when exposed to this chemical. If you are not pro-life for the living, you are not pro-life. The republican party is not and it’s a travesty that Christians are not only misled but furthering this anti-life agenda.
Merry – Do you believe God instituted gerrymandering, the subversion of democracy that allows republicans to keep ‘winning’ in areas where they would lose if not for this unethical and unfair practice? Did God put Caligula in power so that Christians might support him in his evil doing?
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Leslie. I have never claimed that the Republican Party cares about the unborn. There may be a few who do, but most don’t. But as bad as the Republican Party is, the Democratic party is worse when it comes to caring for the unborn. She and Bernie both wanted abortion to be legal right up until the time of birth. As for being in bed with corrupt corporations which put harmful chemicals into our environment, the Republicans might be bad, but Hilary actually hired a lobbyist for Monsanto! Need I saw more?
The point is that two wrongs don’t make a right. It is wrong to poison our children with harmful chemicals before and after birth. You may not be aware of this, but Trump is facing strong opposition from core Republicans….most of whom could care less about the unborn and are committed to the same “old boys network” as the Democrats.
It is our prayer that Trump will be able to drain the swamp in DC, which includes these hypocrites and their corporate masters — from both parties — and reinstate a true culture which celebrates LIFE instead of killing.
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So many of you, fighting about your invisible Sky Pal, and none of you showing even one-one hundreths of one percent of the love for which Christ was an advocate.
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Why do you hate. Your whole letter has an air of sarcasm and dislike for Franklin. Go back to the Bible and judge from there.
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God Bless you Peter.
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There’s nothing I could add to your lettet that would improve it. What you wrote exactly describes many of the un-Christian Christians I meet.
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I left organized religion because it seemed replete with Franklins and lacking the Peters. Franklin Graham and his ilk are raging against the challenge to their paternalistic control of society through religion and government.
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There are millions of people who would disagree with you. These would include widows, orphans, seniors, single moms, sick, displaced, disabled and destitute people all over the globe who have been helped by Rev. Franklin Graham and his teams of dedicated workers!
Perhaps the opinion of these people don’t count in your world. But I suspect that in God’s Kingdom, they do.
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Brilliantly written – thank you.
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Reblogged this on theteapotandthepostbox and commented:
Not the usual post I write but if there’s one issue, which needs to be discussed in this day and age vis-à-vis the United States, democracy, and our society, including the conversation around religion and human rights, it is this one. I talked about Middle Eastern Christians a while back because I am conducting a huge research project on the Protestant community, its networks and essentially, its Middle Eastern community. The American Evangelical community is exactly the the branch of Christianity, which, and I know some of you are probably going to scream, is the least Christian. Why? Because of the issues they never fight for: human rights, the fight to help the other Christian communities, who need help and demand it, the fight to come in aid to the Other, whoever he or she may be, and our support to those in need, such as the homeless for example. All this, not out of greed and arrogance, but out of selflessness. To Peter, the pastor, who wrote this letter: thank you. A beautiful thought-provoking letter.
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There may be some things for which Rev. Franklin Graham can be criticized. Like all of us, he is human and makes mistakes. But he can never be condemned for NOT speaking out for persecuted people and those needing assistance all over the world. It is precisely his speaking out on their behalf — including groups like the Yazidis, Muslims in Daruf, as well as Christians and others who are facing serious human rights abuses and even genocide which has put him at odds with the neo-Liberal politically correct elite. And not only does he speak out on their behalf, he put feet to his words and provides them with assistance. Everywhere there is disaster; everywhere there is huge need, Samaritan’s Purse is likely to be there on the ground providing help — far more so than many other so called human rights or humanitarian organizations!. It is true that many supposed Christians are far too silent about the horrific human rights abuses taking place in our world today. But Rev. Franklin Graham, who is the target of such vituperative, vitriolic, venom on this blog, is DEFINITELY NOT one of them.
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Thank you Peter I don’t understand how Christians say that Jesus and God sent us Trump. He is the complete opposite of the teachings of Jesus. He is more the anti-Christ and it is appalling that any Christian leaders would enable him to continue his religious side show.
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The hatred for President Trump being displayed here is astounding, though not surprising. But since you, Patty, acknowledged that you don’t understand how Christian leaders could support him, let me try to explain it.
There are many reasons why various leaders, Christian and non Christian, chose Trump over Clinton when it came down to those two. But the main reason, as I see it is that Trump showed us respect. He did not insult us or berate us. Instead, he listened to the voice of the Christian community. Yes, he LISTENED, and responded as a representative of the people is supposed to do!. Unlike Hilary, who referred to pro life Christians and those who support Christ’s definition of sacred marriage as a “basket of deplorables” or Bernie Sanders — a radical socialist — who, like his hero Karl Marx also hates Christians and stated that such Christian beliefs were “indefensibly hateful and insulting and not what this country is supposed to be about” ! With this kind of mean spirited bigotry being hurled at Christians, why would anyone expect us to vote for either of these two Democrats?
Rather than berate Trump mercilessly and slander him the way so many on this blog have done, Democrats need to take a hard look at what they are offering to the American people. If their best choice is someone who had to cheat in order to beat out her opponent — a geriatric communist who hates Christianity — then believe me, the problem is not with Donald Trump or the people who elected him.
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Trump only did what he wanted to in hopes of getting elected .. his closeness to Russia is wrong and he is an embarrassment to America ..
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Perhaps! The jury is still out on the true motivation of Trump. But as the apostle Paul would have said: “whether in pretense or in truth”, Trump did the correct thing by listening and responding accordingly. That is what a “representative of the people” is supposed to do. And that is what Clinton did NOT do.
As for Russia, the mainstream media has been desperately searching for over a year frantic to come up with some real evidence that Trump has colluded with anyone in Russia. So far they have come up with nothing. Wish one could say the same thing about Hilary.
If I were you, I’d worry far more about Russia’s very real connections to the Clinton Foundation, the sales of vast quantities of US uranium, and other closed deals between her and Obama with not only the Russians, but radical Islamic states and other dictatorships. This includes the evidence which is now emerging confirming what was really going on in Benghazi, and how Clinton and her RINO friend McCain were helping to provide strategic resources which were ending up in the hands of Al Qaeda and ISIS — with her and Obama’s full knowledge and apparent support. As one ISIS commander commented at the time when ISIS was receiving these supplies from the Obama/Clinton administration: “America keeps on giving, we keep on taking”.
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Extremely smug and snarky letter. Can I call you snarky? Didn’t all the churches get admonished in Revelation?
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Well said Sue. Thank you for this reminder!. The warnings to the churches referred to in Revelation, are vitally important for the church of today. Some of the sins condemned by Christ in these warnings are very similar to those being promoted by so-called “progressives” who are now active in and influencing the churches today. God takes a very dim view of these sins which include false doctrines, idolatry, and fornication. The church today needs to follow what Christ taught in His Word, not what the world and those who hate Christ want us to follow.
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Very nice Cyndee, read it again
Larry
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This was amazing and just in target!! Thank you for sharing ❤️
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I looooove the profound truth by this pastor. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANOIBTED MESSAGE IN THIS LETTER.
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“The Trump family bought the most expensive single building ever purchased in the United States, at 666 Fifth Avenue, a street that symbolizes money (Mammon). The Bible says a man cannot serve both God and Mammon, because he will love one and hate the other. Donald Trump obviously loves Mammon because he gold-plates his toilets and lives in opulent splendor. Thus according to the Bible, he cannot love God. The 666 tower appears in the movies Exorcist II: The Heretic and The Wolf of Wall Street. Trump is a Heretic and an avaricious Wolf who has written books about “winning” at any cost. In Exorcist II: The Heretic a sleepwalking Regan risks death atop the 666 building. Does she represent Ronald Reagan followers who chose to follow Trump despite the obvious danger? The Wolf of Wall Street opens in the Top of the Sixes (666), a penthouse restaurant, and the movie about “rampant corruption and fraud” uses the f-word a record 569 times. The 666 skyscraper (a modern Tower of Babel) is home to Lucent (Lucifer) Technologies and its RFID microchip (the Mark of the Beast). Lucent has technologies called Inferno, Styx and Limbo.” Donald Trump, aka “The Great Deceiver,” is The AntiChrist here to usher in The End of Days.
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When Trump purchased that building, he was a card carrying, Democrat who supported Bill and Hilary Clinton. If we can forgive him for that, we can forgive him for many other sins which he has committed. It is our prayer that he will now use the wealth which he has earned through his business efforts to help the American people and those in need!
As for Trump being the anti-Christ, I did find your theory quite amusing I must confess. Seems you are confusing fantasy with reality. (That’s not unusual these days, especially in leftist circles). But according to Scriptures, Trump could not qualify as the anti-Christ. In the Book of Daniel, the Antichrist is described as someone who has no desire for women. One can accuse Trump of many things, but, unless he is a much better actor than most people would give him credit for, I think he has demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that this particular attribute of the Antichrist does not apply to him.
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Not only has Donald Trump succeeded in dividing the country , he has also divided Christians. Sad times
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Christians have been divided for over a thousand years about many things. In recent times, the evangelical church has divided, not because of Trump but because some have departed from regarding the Word of God as being inspired by God, and therefore the truth. The view that Christ’s teaching on the sanctity of the marriage relationship between one man and one woman (where two become one, and thus creating another sacred human life) has been replaced by the standard of the world, where so-called “equality” replaces the Word of God. That has been seriously dividing virtually all churches in the last 3 decades probably more than any divisive doctrine that has impacted Christendom for a very long time.
Trump had nothing to do with that. What Trump has done, however, is to listen to the voice of those who still value the authority of the Word of God, still adhere to Christ’s views of marriage, the sanctity of human life and many other orthodox Christian beliefs which have stood the test of time, and regard Christ’s teachings and example as normative for today. That is something which the Left can not tolerate. That is why it is throwing such a childish hissy fit!
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The Christian Left is opposing Trump not because of his pandering to the Christian Right on abortion and gay rights. They oppose him because the rest of his platform is in opposition to the teachings of Jesus.
He has no desire to ease the burdens of the sick, the hungry, the poor, the dispossessed. He wants to cut social services so that he can cut taxes for the wealthy.
Jesus told us that we would love the sinner, the less fortunate. Trump tells us NO.
If you want to reject the majority of Jesus’ teaching and vote Republican just because you think liberals are soft on homosexuality… OK. But ask yourself, for all of his righteousness on gays and abortion, how many abortions do you think Donald Trump has paid for with his many mistresses? I think he’s a better candidate for the Anti-Christ than he is to be the spiritual leader of our great country.
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Trump supports so called homosexual “rights”. For sure that is problematic for Christians. But in the over all picture. Trump still is the best option since the Democrats and any independents offer no better alternative.
And, as I stated in another post, the free enterprise system remains the best way to deliver people from the bondage of poverty. Hand outs create a dependency relationship which are, in the long run, usually counter productive. Obviously there are those who will always need the hand outs. And those should not be eliminated. But for those who can work and be productive, (but choose not to because they can always get a government hand out), they should be encouraged to find employment. Just look at the cities where Democrats have been in power and look at the economic situation for those enslaved in poverty! Compare those with areas where employment is encouraged and hand outs which are not essential are discouraged.
As for Trump being the anti-Christ. He is described in the book of Daniel as being someone who does not care for the “desire of women”! That obviously can not apply to Trump. 🙂
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I also believe in the free enterprise system. But I do not believe in Trickle-down economics. To me it is a scam. Republicans talk like it is an immutable law of physics. Lower taxes on the rich and good things will happen. Kind of like preachers who spread the Prosperity Gospel of Norman Vincent Peale.
I don’t buy it. Maybe you could make an argument for lower taxes on the wealthy when Reagan was President and the top tax rate was 90%, Even then, the improvement to our economy from Reagan’s tax cuts were short-lived. Today, with a top tax-rate of 39.6% it just sounds like a scam that the wealthy use to fleece and shrink the middle-class.
I believe in Percolate-up economics. Raise rates on the wealthy, cut taxes for the middle-class and you will grow demand. That will grow the economy. And while you’re at it, do away with corporate welfare.
I also do not believe that Trump’s evil is limited to his behavior with and towards women. George Washington could not tell a lie. Donald Trump has difficulty telling the truth.
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Steve. Republicans are not a monolith. Many of those at the core of the Republican Party hate Trump as much as most Democrats do. It is these, I believe, who are the ones who are least concerned about the welfare of the American people and are part of the “swamp” which Trump has determined to drain. Like you, I don’t believe in the “trickle down theory” of economics. But neither do I believe in the hand outs and socialist leanings of the Democratic Party.
To me, the proof is in the pudding. Look at the inner plight of the poor in America’s biggest cities that have been controlled by Democrats. What did Obama do for the African Americans in the ghettos? I mean really? The increase of support for the Republicans by the African Americans should be viewed as far more alarming by Democrats than the 1 % increase (from Romney to Trump) of Evangelicals. I do believe that Trump is serious about improving the conditions for these urban poor and with Dr. Ben Carson at the helm of many of these initiatives, I believe it will be substantial.
Also, as the number of illegal immigrants declines, this will open up more employment opportunities for African Americans and other poor in both urban and rural areas.
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Unfortunately I do not believe that “campaign” Trump was sincere. He has no intention of draining the swamp.
He appointed an attorney general who would rather prosecute marijuana crimes than money laundering, a Secretary of Education who is hostile to public education, a Secretary of State who wants to appease Russia, a Secretary of Energy who wanted to abolish his own agency and didn’t even know that he was about be in charge of the Atomic Energy Commission, etc.
On the campaign trail he complained that Hillary was in bed with Wall Street. At least relative to Bernie and Elizabeth Warren he was correct, but look at all the Goldman Sachs people in his administration… all of them Trickle-down advocates.
But, let’s wait and argue about this after we get to the bottom of Russia.
His lies about “not knowing any Russians, not having any ties to Russia” have been proven false everywhere but on Fox News. His allegiance to Putin is frightening. His refusal to release his tax returns or financial statements are not draining the swamp.
First he said… We don’t know any Russians, We’ve never talked to any Russians.
Then it was… Of course we talked to Russians, but we didn’t coordinate with them.
Then… he fired the guy who investigating Flynn-Russia.
Then… So what if we coordinated with them. It’s not a crime.
And he’s still thinking about firing Mueller.
This is NOT transparency and the swamp is NOT being drained.
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Thank you, Steve. Well said.
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Fair enough. Lets wait. If Trump is guilty of any crime he, like everyone else, should be held accountable. But its a bit rich to accuse him of withholding documents when Obama withheld so many critical documents from the public….even his real birth certificate. (The one that he posted online after the public put up such a brouhaha is accused of being a forged document).
Apply the same standards to both parties!
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Thank you Peter for calmly and deliberatively taking a Christ-driven approach to questions of Christian “persecution”. The tendency to take a defensive, hostile posture only serves to draw lines in the sand rather than exchange ideas and individual perspectives. We don’t need to support one platform/party or person compared to another; we need to find strength and purpose in our grace-defined, faith-based principles of daily life. I loved your letter. Thank you for your leadership.
Candace
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The letter from Pastor Peter might be “calm” and “Christ-driven” in your view. But many others find it sarcastic, condescending, presumptuous, provocative, hostile and even mean-spirited — even to the point of directly violating the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18. Depends on one’s theological perspective. The effect of the letter was to disparage one candidate — Trump, and vilify him and his supporters (especially Rev Graham) personally. Not sure how you justify this approach of Pastor Peter, yet say at the same time that “we don’t need to support one platform/party or person compared to another”. And why would you love his letter when he has done exactly what you declared that we don’t need to do?
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This was the biggest mistake Billy Graham did for his followers. His daughter Anne would have made a MUCH better representative for the Graham legacy.
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The Rev Billy Graham is in full agreement with what both of his children are doing and saying. He has and does stand behind Rev Franklin Graham who is both speaking out against injustice and the serious moral decline in America, and his ministry to the hungry, displaced, sick, poor and needy all around the world.
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Perfect! Thanks!
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Thank you. So many false prophets and only a few speak about authentic Christianity.
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If your name is Rev. Olson, you R a self righteous egotistic hypocritical disgrace to God’s Kingdom
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And when you see him in heaven will you greet him the same way?
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Dear Pastor:
You make some very good points, and yes, for the cake-making Christian couple, the good and right thing to do is help people and bless them, (and make them cakes), just like you do for the rest of us, who lie, and steal, and gossip, and get divorced, and commit adultery, and get abortions! We are all human, and loving, and selfish, and made in the image of God, and DEEPLY loved by Him!
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It is not about the “who”, it is about the “what”. The homosexual couple who were refused a wedding cake were previous customers who had received other services from these bakers. They did not refuse to bake the cake because of who was asking for it. It was because of what the cake was going to be used for. If anyone else had asked for the same cake for the same purpose — a so-called “homosexual wedding” — they would have been similarly refused. This is not discrimination based on the type of sinner. It is simply a refusal to be a participant in sin. There is a huge difference!
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednigo had no problem serving the Emperor or any of his cohorts — who were horrific sinners. But these three men of God refused to bow down to the golden image….an act which would have violated God’s commandments! Similarly, the early Christians refused to say “Caesar is Lord”, even though that made them very unpopular with the Romans of that day, and earned them the title “haters of mankind”. Were these early Christians discriminating against Romans? Would you have said “Caesar is Lord”?
For these pious, honest, sincere Christian bakers, baking a cake for a ceremony which violates the sanctity of marriage is no different. It would be comparable to a First Nations baker being required to bake a cake for a party celebrating the drilling of oil on his/her ancestral burial grounds, or for a Muslim to bake a cake for a party celebrating the burning of a Quran. Would you expect them to do this, regardless of which “protected minority” was making the request?
Would you bake a cake for a party celebrating the success of Ashley Madison’s promotion of adultery in America?
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Mel, would you bake a cake for Donald Trump, who brags about behaving like an Ashley Madison client? Come on. Don’t pick a party based on a wedding cake.
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I would bake a cake for Donald Trump if the cake was for a non sinful function. If it was to celebrate an adulterous affair, however, I would not. Again, like so many people who are blogging here, you confuse the “who” with the “what”. I would bake a cake for Hilary Clinton, or Bernie Sanders, or any other person if it was for something that was not promoting evil. But if it were to celebrate something that was evil — such as Hilary’s promotion of abortion — I would refuse.
To put this in a Biblical context, I would bake a cake for a birthday party for King Nebuchadnezzar, one of the most ruthless tyrants of all times. But I would not bake it to celebrate his “Golden image” (or any other of his evil actions). Nor would I bow down to it.
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If christianity today had the face that you practice, I would be an active member of a church.
As it stands now, with what ‘Christianity’ has become, I will do everything within my power to delegitimize and minimize it. I believe it a threat to humankind and a clear and present danger to our country. I post quite often that these people are going to get a hell of a surprise when they roll up on the Pearly Gates, only to be told that they made a wrong turn a ways back…
I suppose this is what Mr Graham’s fear is. If that’s the case, it’s well founded. I truly hope that pastors like you survive the coming trials and keep the true heart of your religion safe, but ‘Christianity’ will need to be beaten back in civil society, until those like you seize back the narrative and control. You may have a valuable ally in the current pope.
As I posted to someone earlier, ‘Christians’ keep telling Muslims this, it may be time to apply it closer to home.
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The Christianity which Rev Graham preaches has been orthodox Christianity for 2000 years! That Christ died for our sins, and that unless we repent we shall all perish in an eternity without God. It is interesting that so many atheists and people who do not attend church support the condemnations against Rev Graham. This should not surprise us. Christ warned us that if we followed Him the world would hate us. But they do so because they first hate Christ.
Matthew 10:22 — “And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.”
I thank God that there are still preachers like Rev Graham who have not bowed the knee to the message of the world, and stand firm, preaching the saving power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and demonstrating His love to a world in need.
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Amen and I commend you for re-directing to see and understand our bible. I remember one time not long ago I had taken my frien to a Christian church who was special needs. He became very excited over the music and because of his excitement he became somewhat loud. With we were ask to remove him to outside, later I saw the pasture and told him shame on you to remove one of gods children from his church. So I say to you thank you thank you and god bless
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To imply, as you have done, that Rev Graham would mistreat someone with a disability in this fashion is simply to raise a straw man. It is inaccurate.
I also have a daughter with a serious disability who loves to sing loudly and off key in church. I can assure you that there are many churches which take the Word of God seriously — conservative churches who preach the Gospel — who love her enjoy her presence so much. I can also assure you that Rev Graham would be among those who would love to hear her sing in church, and would certainly not prevent her from expressing her love for God. Graham’s organization, Samaritan’s Purse has done a stellar job caring for people with disabilities all over the world.
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There was so much condescending attitude in this letter. You can just feel the true heart in the choice of words. I pray for the veils to come down and hearts to be free of the political and religious spirit. Holy Spirit come and bring your wisdom for all. A hard heard can only be soften with wisdom not just knowledge. Father God we trust your word that you do appoint all leaders as your word says. Each leader in history has had its purpose for your plan. I for one will never disqualify your authority based on my own hope and thoughts. I trust you alone. I may not like a lot of qualities about Trump but I will continue to pray for his success for our country. Rev Graham has proven to be a man who seeks your heart and people who seek to disqualify him as an anointed man of God should be very careful. Let your will be done hear on earth as it is in Heaven.
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Wow. So well said. Thank you. Maybe we can make America care and minister again.
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There are too many “Christians” who like to spend their time judging others rather than taking care of themselves. They think that it is their job to decide who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. It’s really none of their business if a person is in a same sex relationship, if a person is Muslim, or if person is transgender. There are those who think if people don’t belong to their church, then they are going to hell.Everyone should just try to live a good life and not worry about the neighbor next door being gay.
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Jan. One of the duties of a Christian is to warn people of the destructive force of sin. This is not to judge anyone. It is simply to warn people that if they violate God’s laws, and refuse to accept God’s solution (for which He paid the ultimate price), then they will live with the consequences of their actions. That is not judging people. It is warning them….like the firemen who warned us to flee our house this past week due to a forest fire that was raging down on our town. I did not like what he told me. I did not appreciate his tone of voice, his demanding words, his lack of “tolerance” or his inability to see any other alternative. It was simply “get out of the house and leave” or you will face the unfortunate consequences.
That was not the message any of us wanted to hear. But it was important, and it was needed. And if I had not obeyed it, I might even be dead today. Sin, like a forest fire, destroys. The best course of action we can take is to turn from it by following Christ!
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I keep reading this open letter to Franklin Graham and I seem to get more out of it each time .
I have saved it in my “bookmarks”
so that I can revisit it !
I don’t do church, I don’t even read the Bible … but I have , years ago .
Your take on graham’s attitude is spot on .
He is the type of “preacher” who turns people off …
And he isn’t the only one !
Every time I read this letter to F Graham I grin and that’s why I saved it , so I can savor it !
I wonder if he ever reached out to you or he is much too distant from us “the little people” ????
As for Trump…. let’s not get started here , he simply is NO GOOD for this country and it’s people !
Enough said .
Keep on writing and I’ll keep on reading!
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Amen Peter ! Reverend Lee Londino 😁
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Romans 13 says to owe no man anything. With the debt America has, it scriprually has the right to not give anyone a single penny for any reason until the debt is paid. Romans 14 says that we are not to cause another man to fall. Baking that cake for a gay marriage shows that you support gay marriage, which will cause some to fall when they see you support it. You are supporting sin. It’s their financial loss, and there are other bakeries out there too. If a company is going to get sued for refusing service like this, why are companies that refuse to be open on Sundays for religious reasons not being sued for that also. It’s no different.
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Obviously, the size of our national debt bothers you a lot. It bothers me a lot too. So why would I support an agenda has as it’s cornerstone, large tax cuts for wealthy, which will serve only to increase the size of the national debt. I believe in the teachings of Jesus, but I don’t believe in Trickle-down economics. I believe it is a phony concept designed by those people who want more wealth to justify taking from people who have little.
In short, I believe in Percolate-up economics, because I find it more consistent with the teachings of Jesus.
Further, I don’t believe that the power-machers of the Republican party, the Kochs, the Mercers, President Trump, Steve Forbes, Sean Hannity, et. al. give a damn about abortion or whether that gay couple gets a wedding cake. I believe that they pretend to care, because they need the votes of poor and middle class Christians to accomplish their goal of making the rich richer.
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Do you believe the power makers of the Democrat Party give a rats patootie about abortion? You might be correct that the Republican Party is comprised of people who don’t really care much about the sanctity of human life. But the small concern that is there is certainly far more than the Democrats have shown.
And to his credit, Trump has lived up to his promises so far on this issue. He selected a solidly pro life Vice President, and he appointed a member to the Supreme Court who is very promising on this issue. Yes, Roe vs Wade is still not overturned. But that will take some time.
As for economics. The free enterprise system has clearly proven to be the best system of delivering people from poverty and underdevelopment to economic improvement. Just look at all those countries which have followed the socialist system: Venezuela is a perfect current example, and compare that with South Korea or Taiwan. The “hand-out” and entitlement mentality which socialism creates soon becomes counter-productive when, as one famous politician aptly stated, “you run out of other people’s money to spend”. Socialism creates a dependency relationship upon the state which ultimately is destructive to economic development.
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I’m not disagreeing with about Capitalism vs. Communism. That is a settle debate, although every country has socialist elements to them. Communism is dead… everywhere… even the countries that pretend to be communist are not. They are just dictators waving communism at their sheep to make them easier to shear. North Korea, Cuba, China, Russia… none of them are communist.
I am debating Trickle-down vs. Percolate-up economics.
Most of our national debt increases have occurred on the watches of Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. The first two drove our debt through the roof because they cut taxes while ramping up defense expenditures. Obama had little choice because, like FDR, he inherited a terrible mess not of his making.
The wealthy benefit much more than anyone else from our form of government and our economic system and shouldn’t whine about their taxes. If we want to Make America Great Again, we need to rebuild the middle-class. Trump and Bernie on the campaign trail sounded like the best bets to do that, but Trump has abandoned those promises and even if he didn’t, Ryan and McConnell wouldn’t cooperate.
Rebuild the middle-class with Percolate-up economics, not by promising the return of coal jobs that disappeared not from environmental regulations, but rather from dirt cheap natural gas, which we have in spades.
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We could certainly debate whether Communism (at least Marx’s “dialectical materialism”) is dead. There are many people with more brains than either of us who would be on both sides of that debate. Similarly, we can discuss which approach — Republican or Democrat — is better suited to provide prosperity to the majority of American people. I might even agree with much of what you are saying, although I do not believe that those at the core of the Democratic Party are at all interested in these. They are every bit as self absorbed as the worst of the Republican. And would appear to be just as much wealthy corporate support (probably more) for the Democrats as the Republicans. Nor are committed Democrat donors such as George Soros, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg on any poverty list!
These discussions are important, for sure. But they need to be carried out in an attitude of common civility and respect, without the histrionics and hatred being waged by so many people in the anti- Trump camp. There is no need for any “resistance movement”. There is a very real need for the Democrat Party to examine what it is that they are offering to the American people and face the facts as to why so many Americans — including Christians, African Americans, blue collar workers, and others, voted for Trump and not their own candidate.
But demonizing the current President with slander is and insults as so many are doing here is not helpful and will only lead to more destruction.
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Mel, only 20 or 30 or 40 years down the road will we know whether the resistance movement was necessary or not. At this point, the current president has far too much resemblance to 1930s Germany for me to completely ignore it.
And I bet that in 1930s Germany there were people resisting and people saying that they shouldn’t be doing it, that they should be supporting the administration. And I bet there were Christians holding both points of view, as there are now. Only time will tell who is right on this one. I have a responsibility to behave as I see appropriate.
And so do you 🙂
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I agree. The parallels to 1930’s Germany frighten me. The constant lies, the army of propagandists attempting to confirm and normalize the lies, the attacks on the free press and the subservience to a hostile oligarchy. It seems so obvious to me that I don’t understand why the conservatives continue to back the guy.
We can argue over taxes and abortion and the environment AFTER we’ve secured our sovereignty and democracy.
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What lies? Most of the supposed “lies” that Trump is accused of, when you look at what he said in context are, in fact, not lies at all. Other things he has said are obvious hyperbole, or simply statements which are not 100% accurate. Next time your wife says to you “I’ve told you 100 times to leave the toilet seat down”, simply accuse her of lying and point out to her that she had only told you to do so 78 times. 🙂 That’s what the mainstream media would do if it were Trump. The kind of “lies” that Trump tells are not the kind of lies that Hilary told when she knowingly blamed the deaths of Americans in Benghazi on some third rate anti Muslim video; or when she told Congress that she did not use her private server for any classified government material when she clearly had… and many other lies.
And what “army of propagandists? The entire mainstream media is vociferously opposed to Trump and act like they are the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party? He has made no move against freedom of the press. He simply refutes the false claims that the mainstream media continually make about him. That is not at all like Hitler.
Over 90% of the mainstream media is owned by 6 corporations. And these corporations are in the “NeverTrump” category. The small, independent media groups which are not part of this “old boys elite network” have to struggle. But for the most part, they have, (at least when it comes to this issue), the advantage of having the truth on their side This is why so many Americans understand that Trump really is a threat to the firmly ensconced elite sitting in DC who have been ripping the American tax payer for so long and controlling America’s culture and politics from behind closed doors. In fact Trump’s popularity is inversely related to the ferocity of the mainstream corporate media’s calumnious attacks.
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I feel like you are sitting in an alternate universe. 45 has criticized the press, has refused them admittance to events, has refused them the right to televise press conferences, has convinced you that the real reporters are crooked and fake.
Without a feee press, the USA is doomed. Trump is convincing his followers that the free press is evil. Once you all believe that, you will have no way to know what’s going on but through him. Even some of your statements above (e.g. Bengazi) indicate that you believe him instead of the free press.
It’s kind of interesting to see how completely you’ve been hooked, but it’s also scary. He said early on that he could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot someone, and his followers would let him get away with it. I thought it was hyperbole at the time, but no more – I believe you would find a way to justify it. Amazing.
I fear you are destroying my beloved country.
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Judy, I have been following the mainstream media for many years — long before Trump came on the scene. Trump did not need to convince any of his supporters that the mainstream media has an agenda. The reason people appreciated Trump is precisely because he recognized what his supporters have known for a long time. And rather than do what other politicians do — which is to remain silent about the corporate controlled media — he chose to fight back. For sure he has done so in ways that many would not approve. But at least he is addressing the problem
You said that without a free press, the USA is doomed. I agree. But the press has not been independent or “free” for a long time. It has been controlled by a small clique of elite corporations (6 to be precise) which have an agenda. And that agenda is not to advance the interests of the average American.
That statement he made to which you are referring, was indeed hyperbole! I agree that was a stupid thing to say. But I do appreciate the fact that he is fighting the snake pit of corruption and greed which has controlled the mainstream media’s narrative, and actually IS working for the destruction of the United States as we know it.
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Mel, the United States as we know it is far from perfect. You are working for change in the United States. I am working to change the United States. The Free Press is working to change the United States.
The big question is the direction in which you, I, and the Free Press wish to move. And that’s where the digression is.
There will be change. May it be in the right direction, which neither you nor I can predict with 100% accuracy.
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Judy, I agree that we can’t predict with 100% the future. But we can observe trends. I have lived through a Communist revolution as well as the take over of a moderate Islamic country by a radical one where Islamic Law is now the law of the land. And I have also studied history. There definitely have been some very disturbing trends over the past few decades in the USA and other western nations which, if allowed to continue, could very well mean the end of western civilization as we know it.
And one of the main reasons for this disturbing trend has been, precisely, that there is no longer a free and independent press in the USA. Apart from some small and struggling media groups on both sides of the political divide, the mainstream media is corporately owned and committed to an agenda which they have been following for some time.
There still is a “free press” in theory, but in practice, it is controlled to the point where TASS and PRAVDA now look like stellar examples of investigative journalism by comparison. 🙂
God bless!
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Your analogy with the Third Reich is way over the top and falls short for many reasons. Hitler is someone who started out looking great, and used his popularity and power of speech to sway the public into a sense of mass delusion. He co-opted the media, the academic elite, and the major corporations.
Trump, on the other hand, started out as a joke. Almost no one thought he had a chance. And his “power of oration is hardly impressive”. His mouth is his biggest problem. He has the mainstream media constantly attacking him. He has the academic elite constantly attacking him. And many major corporations are adamantly opposed to him. The only ones who are goose-stepping to a drum beat are those who hate him and have joined the resistance.
From a moral perspective, the direction which Trump is facing is exactly the opposite to the direction which Hitler took .
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This is so fake , so called Peter the Pastor !! To call out another Pastor as you have done in this letter is a blatant attempt to make yourself look Good. What does Jesus think of you. I am from NC and pastor Graham has brought thousands upon thousands to the Lord. You should be ashamed He has worked hard for over 6o years in the ministry. And has been blessed by God in many ways. You should be ashamed of yourself for this hateful vindictive letter . may you ask forgives and apologize to pastor Graham .
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The polarized comments here concern my greatly. Peter’s letter seemed to me to be a fairly gentle, if a little sarcastic, rejection of religious leaders endorsing the Republican platform and Donald Trump specifically. I completely understand the passionate rejection of abortion by many in this blog, but I think they make a grave error when they assume that “liberal” Christians uniformly support abortion.
Many aspects of our religious beliefs play out in the political process. Not just abortion and the acceptance of gay marriage. Treatment of the sick, the old, the poor, the politically and religiously oppressed, rejection of capital punishment, gun control and many others influence with which party honest Christians align.
Personally, I align with the Democrats, in spite of misgivings that I have about their stance on abortion and I wish that their tent was big enough to include ProLife candidates. But abortion isn’t the only issue in American politics that concerns me. On balance, I think the Democrats embody the spirit of Christ more than Republicans do. Their concern for the poor, the under-educated, the persecuted and their rejection of capital punishment are just as important to me as my misgivings about abortion. I don’t much of Christ’s teachings in the Republican platform, which I see as waging war on the poor and undermining the middle class in an effort to enrich the already wealthy.
Even if abortion were the most important issue to me, I don’t believe that Republican politicians and donors really care about it. I firmly belief that it is fish that they wave at Christians to keep us on their side, so that we will empower them to complete an agenda that I find, on balance, to very un-Christlike. I am would wager that President Trump has paid for many abortions. After all, he has cheated on all three of his spouses with scores of girlfriends. He has bragged openly about his infidelity. Trump, the Kochs, the Mercers, Grover Norquist… I don’t believe that any of them care about abortion or homosexuality… but they know you do and so they wear a false mantle so that you will empower them to enrich themselves
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Steve. Abortion is not just “another issue” or “one of many issues”. It is a core foundational issue. It is where the belief in the “right to life” meets the road of reality. Either human life is sacred or it is not. It can not be more sacred at one age than another.
The Declaration of Independence states that everyone has the inalienable right to “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness”.
If we abandon the right to life (as America, with Roe vs Wade has done), then the direction which society will take is predictable. It is only a matter of time. As I’ve mentioned earlier, the Clinton’s aptly demonstrated the direction which this will take during the Rwanda crisis. There, an apocalypse which could have been prevented was allowed to proceed simply for political expediency. When human life no longer is regarded as sacred, and is only deemed to have value based, not on inalienable rights which come from God, but on some social construct of government which can be altered for political expediency, then it is only a question of time when there will be deadly contempt for human life in other areas as well. It truly is a “slippery slope”. And current history is proving it. Following on the heels of abortion come euthansia (now legal in Canada and many other Western nations), infanticide (also common practice in western nations even if not formally legal) and other crimes against humanity.
Hitler’s first victim was not a Jew. His first victim was a deformed child named Gerhardt Kretschmar. Hitler’s medical advisers who were highly qualified academically (though morally bankrupt) advised Hitler that this innocent child was too deformed to be allowed to live. The fortress wall of the sanctity of human life was violated. Once Hitler breached that wall, there was no longer protection for society’s most vulnerable people. This led to the killing of other disabled people and those that the Third Reich deemed to be “useless eaters”. Similar stories could be told of almost all the world’s brutal dictators and those who follow anti-Christ ideologies.
The need to return to a very strong commitment to the sanctity of all human life has never been more important. Without it, civilization as we know it will not survive.
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A simply honest and inspiring letter that “hits the nail on the head” in my book. I only wish that the fanatical supporters of this administration, not to mention, the administration itself would read this. Thank you.
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Regardless of how much someone hates Donald Trump and those who support him, that does not give anyone the right to slander a fellow believer in Christ.
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I don’t see slander. I see healthy disagreement. Not to be able to disagree is to equate someone with Jesus and his infallibility.
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Judy. The letter states: “His (God’s) sole concern is for how we treated the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned, those deemed “least” among us. No, I didn’t get that from any private chat with God. We small church pastors have to rely on the Bible for our intel. I got this stuff from the Gospel of Matthew, 25th Chapter to be precise. As I said, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.)”
This clearly implies that the Rev Graham does not agree with and is guilty of ignoring Christ’s teachings in Matthew 25 about helping the “least of these”. Any casual reader who does not know Rev Graham and his ministry would logically infer this.
Yet that is a completely false implication. Rev Graham has been obeying the teachings of Matthew 25 for decades. So why would Pastor Peter imply that he is not? To say something which implies something that is false and damages another person’s reputation is slander by any definition.
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The Reverend Billy Graham must be shocked and disappointed in how Franklin turned out. Franklin is not Christian or Christ like.
Elmer Gantry is a fictional character in a famous book written by Sinclair Lewis which criticises huckster religious zealots who are in it only for the money. Gantry is a con man in it only for the money and has many vices including sexual indescretions.
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I have often thought that Billy must be disappointed in Franklin.
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Why? His “prodigal” has returned and is working in a great ministry to the poor. Who appointed us to be judges of one another? This entire stream has left me a bit unhappy with people. It seems that most who agree with “Pete” are damaged Christians or agnostics, atheists, etc. while those disagreeing are generally kinder in their negative (to him) positions. Maybe we should let each one’s master be the judge of the quality of his/her work, as none is “without sin” and thus able to be an “accuser of the brethren”.
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Interesting comment. I totally agree with Pete, a Christian pastor, and I consider myself a Christian. And no more ‘damaged’ than the rest of the Christians I know :-). So I find your characterization of the Pete-supporters interesting.
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I know for a fact that Rev. Billy Graham is very proud of the work that Franklin, his son, is doing.
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You nailed it!
Blessings,
Noel
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Sounds like Peter’s view is void of a biblical world view. Peter please preach the full council of the Word! Stop conforming to the worldly secular feel good gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes it is only the Blood of the Lamb that can change the human heart! Yes use your chicken dinners, food drives … etc. Reverand Grahams mission is not yours Personally I would rather suffer the arrows of those mocking Jesus then to hear or fellowship with the Luke warm. BTW 40 people is the average size of church’s! Pray prior to posting…. I pray my words are true and faithful and if they offend take it up with Jesus. Shalom.
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It doesn’t sound “void of a biblical world view” to me. It sounded like a gentle rebuke to a man who has let his personal affinity for the conservative political agenda influence his preaching of the gospel and his duty to preach love for ALL men.
It seems to me that the rebuke came from a man who has an affinity for the liberal political agenda in so far as it coincides with the teachings of Christ. The rebuke may have been a little sarcastic, but in the context of the comments back and forth in this blog… it was tame.
But let’s be real… the real question here should not be Peter vs. Franklin. We should give each of them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are both sincere Christians.
The real question should be: When we as Christians support President Trump are we supporting him because his goals, beliefs and methods are consistent with the teachings of Jesus or are we endorsing those goals and methods because we dislike the liberal agenda, especially as it relates to abortion and gay rights? and are we being blind to even bigger divergences between Jesus’ teachings and the conservative agenda?
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Steve, I think many sincere believers have given this issue a lot of thought. They have determined that the policies and political platform that Trump has presented are far more consistent with the teachings of Christ than what the Democrats were offering, even if Trump’s methods and personality are, at times, odious. Those who voted for Trump endorse his political platform, even if they do not endorse his personality and some of his problematic statements (such as his open support for homosexuality).
When you speak of the “even bigger divergences” between Christ’s teachings and the “conservative agenda”, perhaps you should take a hard look at what happened in Rwanda when the “liberal agenda” was in full power, when Bill Clinton (with the apparent acquiescence of his wife) thwarted efforts by the UN to save the lives of over 800,000 civilians most of whom were hacked to death with machetes. Or look at what the “liberal agenda” under Hilary and Obama did in Syria and Iraq, where military equipment, money, and resources were given to enemies of the United States who were committing unspeakable atrocities against civilians — including Yazidis and Christians. We could also talk about the corrupt goings on of the Clintons with their Clinton Foundation, their acceptance of millions of dollars of “play to pay” money from totalitarian states, the lying and criminal negligence involved in Benghazi….and many other immoral activities.
Perhaps you should seriously consider the possibility that it is not Trump supporters who are being the most blind when it comes to best supporting the teachings of Christ.
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Rwanda wasn’t the result of a liberal agenda. It was the result of a theory of international relations that crosses party lines.
It was something that President Clinton agonized over and has since described as the biggest mistake of his Presidency. He learned from that mistake and convinced NATO to intervene in Bosnia in an action that saved many Bosnia lives and lead to war crime tribunals.
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I’m not sure what you mean by “a theory of international relations”. I’m not aware of any “theory” that somehow openly permits or facilitates genocide. The decision by the US government to block the UN Security Council’s opportunity to change the mandate of the UN peace keepers on the ground from a Chapter VI to a Chapter VII came directly from the President himself, with the apparent acquiescence of his closest advisers, including his wife.
I’m glad that he sees it as a big mistake. But that is the understatement of the year! There were sufficient UN troops who were well armed and well trained. They could have prevented most of these atrocities. Nor would it have cost America any more resources. The UN troops were already there. No American troops would have been needed. All that they needed was the Chapter VII mandate so they could protect civilians rather than simply report what was happening to them. Desperate Rwandans were forced to beg (in vain) the UN troops to kill them rather than leave them to the fate of the Interahamwe militias where they would be tortured, raped, and hacked to death with machetes.
And I believe that you are wrong that Bill “learned from that mistake”. Yes, he convinced NATO to intervene to protect the Muslim population in Bosnia. But he failed completely to protect the Southern Sudanese who were also the victims of a ruthless genocidal government, backed by the Muslim Brotherhood in Khartoum, which was occurring at the same time as the Bosnian crisis. The African child can be forgiven for believing that the only reason Clinton saved the victims in Bosnia but not the victims in South Sudan is because of the color of their skin. If the Clintons learned their lesson in Rwanda, why did they fail again in South Sudan.
And despite Obama’s condemnation of inaction by the Bush administration in Darfur, when he got into office he did even less to end that ethnic cleansing and genocide — which is still ongoing today — than Bush did. On of the last executive decisions Obama made was to call for the removal of sanctions against Khartoum, even when they had failed to live up to the human rights provisions required of them by the international community
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People who study and work in the field of IR, break themselves into different philosophical schools: Realism, neo-liberalism, neo-conservatism, constructivism, etc. These schools of thought cross party lines, especially realism.
And of course there are schools that would have argued against intervening in Rwanda, the same thought that kept us out of WWI and WWII until late in the game.
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The difference is that the peace keepers were already there on the ground. This would not have forced American involvement in any way. It would merely have allowed the UNSC to do what it is supposed to do under the 1948 Convention Against the Crime of Genocide. It would merely have altered the mandate of the peace keepers allowing them to protect civilians.
That’s a far cry from America’s isolationist mentality during the two World Wars.
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Comforting to read Pastor Peters letter to Frank.
Reassured that my bible isnt the only one that tells us how to treat our neighbor, the poor, the thirsty, the hungry, the sick.
I have been becoming concerned by some of the ideas being put out there in the nsme of “Christians”, those ideas certainly aren’t mine.
Thank you for writing and posting.
Trish
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Amen, Trish – amen!!!
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Trish. The irony of this letter is that it condemns a man of God who has put into practice Christ’s, teachings on precisely those things which you cite: “how to treat our neighbor, the poor, the thirsty, the hungry, the sick”. And he has done so to a far greater extent than most of those who are so eager to cast stones at him. There are hundreds of thousands of people — perhaps even millions — all over the world who are alive today because Rev Franklin Graham has obeyed these commands of Christ and has demonstrated Christ’s love to people of every race, every religion, and every belief, around the world.
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The Bible does not condone same sex “marriage”…nor does it tell us we have to help “cerebrate” any kind of sin. People have as much right to refuse to help with any kind of sin…including baking cakes…as employers do to refuse to hire and interfere with somebody’s work to keep them from employment. Persecution of Christians have existed in the U.S. for years….anybody knows it if tell the truth.
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It does tell us that we MUST love sinners.
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We are to love sinners, but we are not to participate in their sin, nor should we encourage them to continue in it. True love means delivering people from the bondage of their sins.
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It also tells us not to judge them.
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You mean like so many on this site have been judging Rev Graham?
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Yes, exactly like that.
I must admit that I’m a little skeptical about wealthy preachers, but unless they do something really obvious, like Jim Baaker did and Jimmy Swaggart, I try to keep my thoughts to myself. I am not questioning Rev. Graham’s dedication to Christ, but I do question the Christian Right’s devotion to the Republican party.
Ironically, I think that Democrats tend to identify slightly less as Christians than Republicans do, but abortion aside, I do find find the Democratic platform must more Christlike than I do the Republican platform.
And I do think that Donald Trump is an evil man who waves religion around to keep you guys in line, without believing in anything but increasing his own fame and wealth.
Peace.
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Steve, I must confess I’m a bit confused as to what you are saying. If, as you say, we are not to judge, then why is it OK to judge Donald Trump as an “evil man”? So much so that you would question some Christians’ “devotion” to the Republican party? Why is “good for the goose, but not for the gander”?
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I’m not judging Rev. Graham. He was not running for office.
I had to judge Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in order to decide who to vote for.
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I think this small town pastor has a better grip on what Jesus taught than Frank does. Frank might be surprised at Jesus’ priorities; they do seem very different from his.
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Judy. I’d be interested in knowing which priorities you are referring to. If it is, as others have stated, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, giving help to the displaced, the lonely, destitute, poor and needy. Then those are the things for which Rev Graham certainly has made a high priority….far more so than those who are bashing him so loudly.
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Pastor,
You say you have the Scriptures;
do you believe they are infallible? If so, where do you put the second half of Romans chapter one, which is pretty specific especially about same sex relations?
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Jack Lane, Please don’t view laws like this as an attack on Christianity. They are attempts to protect citizens of the United States. And I’m sure that many Muslims and Jews are equally offended by them. No one is asking you to condone homosexual behavior. It’s just that the majority has decided that we must treat homosexuals like all other citizens
And this doesn’t represent a decline in America’s attitude towards Christians. There have always been laws that many Christians disagreed with. In generations past no Christian would admit to drinking alcohol, but liquor has been legal for all but a few years of US history. Lots of things are legal that most Christians and Muslims find distasteful.
Even if this one law is unwise, please look at all issues before deciding to side with the Republicans. They may be right on this issue, but the majority of their agenda is distinctly un-Christlike and the current President himself brags about the many sins he has committed and he lies every day of the week without batting an eye. He has no concern for the very people that Jesus told us to care for. The Golden Rule, the Beatitudes and the Ten Commandments are all as real to him as fairy tales are to you and me.
He is looking out for the wealthy and not the average American.
And he is friends with this country’s enemy.
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Steve. You wrote that: “No one is asking you to condone homosexual behavior.” But that is not accurate. By forcing someone to bake a cake for a so-called “homosexual wedding” the court is forcing the bakers to participate in this event. That goes beyond mere condoning. That is where your argument fails.
If the cake was for a purpose which was not considered sinful, that would be a different story. Its like forcing a Muslim to bake a cake for a party celebrating the burning of a Quran. Burning a Quran (which is made of paper and ink) is not illegal in the USA. But to a Muslim, that is a sacrilege. Just because an action is legal, does not mean someone should be forced to participate in it or be forced to promote it.
And yes, Donald Trump (like everyone else) has done many sinful things. Almost all of them, however, were done when he was a card carrying Democrat, and supported Bill and Hilary Clinton. But even those, when compared with the evil things which the Clintons have done, pale in comparison. Beside them, Trump is a paragon of virtue. And if we can forgive Trump for supporting them — despite all their moral failings — we can certainly forgive Trump for the things which he has done. Of course we need to hold him accountable and make sure he does not do any of those things now which he did when he was a Democrat. That is the task of all who voted for him.
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Finally a REAL Christian!!!
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As a non-practicing Catholic I am damned according to a whole bunch of people, but lets set that aside for now. When I read this I was reminded of Nana, a good, kind, caring woman who tried to teach me that kindness, humility, and doing good for others is what God would want. There are so many out there that preach the word but never live it, all they want is for their church’s to be filled with people willing to hand over their money for new planes, and homes, while so many do without. Yes I cuss and smoke and use to drink but I never forgot that if I were kind to someone lower then me I might make a difference in their lives. I have been on the top and at the bottom of the ladder (homeless for years) but I was just as kind to someone in a suit as I was to someone cleaning toilets.
Well anyway haters gonna hate, but I will always hope that love and peace will transcend it someday.
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True kindness, and true love seeks to deliver people from the bondage of sin which is so destructive. Sin, especially presumptuous sin, soon binds the sinner who is committing it, enslaving him/her, into a life from which they can not easily escape. That is why so many people are addicted to habits — drugs, pornography, illicit sex, and other which are destructing. And sexual sins are no exception to this. That is why true love can not promote sin or participate in any sin with those who are committing them.
That is why true preachers of the Word of God, like the parent who yells at his child to get off of the busy street, or the fireman who screams at people to get out of the apartment building before the fire consumes them, are seldom liked. At least in the short term. But if they have helped to deliver people from a life of destructive sin, and an eternity separated from God, they will have been obedient to God
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Well said sir the person you are talking with is a phony of religion it’s all about the money with this guy and those kind of people God bless you for your thoughts and telling it like it is
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Hatred for Trump does not give any Christian the right to slander a fellow believer.
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Yes you rely have a way with words, but I don’t want to sit in your church. You can twist things
Al you want the devel is the master of disguise that is in the Bible to. Right in genesis where eve lisened to the serpent.
Speaking of women look at aberhams wife sierras she got us in a heck of a way by not waiting on the load, she sent her hand maid into her husband to have his child .read that story.
It is a real eye opener!! Know we have mulzulem that think we are infadels. Yep that was staircase
Take Lot’s wife She is really a pillar of the community, oh that was a pillar of salt. Seems they had to leave that town course of to many gay people. No not guy people the word is quirs
I am not a fake pastor I am a old fashioned country boy, red neck, a bigot, a raceist, a Hurd
Or most other names your kind calls us . GET Behind ME SATIN. Mouthy people are in my garden of eden.
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Thank you Pastor Peter. As a long time Believer I have often wondered what attacks on Christianity people were referring to. Thank you for voicing my thoughts so clear, succinct and with the tone of a Pastor and more importantly person who tries to Live the word and not just know it or preach it!
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Let me ask you, Theresa, if the situation were reversed, would you feel the same way? If a homosexual baker refused to bake a cake for a Christian wedding ceremony and received a fine that would destroy their livelihood, would you consider that persecution of so-called “gays”? Do you think the media would remain as silent or as approving of the court ruling as they have in this case? Do you think Pastor Peter would be writing to exhort the homosexual bakers to obey the law of the land?
Think about it!
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Oh Mel – OF COURSE I would be protesting!! I believe the law applies to all. If I am in business and someone comes to me to partake of my service, I have an obligation to serve him or her. For goodness sake – remember Woolworth’s lunch counter? It’s the exact same principle. They wanted to refuse to serve Black people and they used their beliefs to justify it. They did not have that right. That woman whose name I have forgotten who refused to issue a marriage license to a gay couple did not have the right to refuse to perform her job.
If you don’t approve of gay marriage, don’t marry a man. Simple as that. But the law is the law.
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Its actually quite different from the Woolworth lunch counter issue. In fact that is exactly the main issue here and why Peter’s letter logically falls flat. The Woolworth case, as you have described it (and I am assuming you are correct) was denying service to black people because of who they are. That is discrimination! In the case of the bakers who were fined an exorbitant, draconian fine intended to ruin their business, the service was denied because of what it was going to be used for. It was a case of “what” not “who”. It was the same in the case of Ms Kim Davis who was imprisoned because she could not “bow the knee” to the “Golden image” and take part in the desecration of a sacred institution — in this case, marriage.
Would you bake a cake which would be used to celebrate Ashley Madison’s success in advancing adultery in America?
Would you bake a cake which was going to be used at a “burn the Quran” party? Would you expect a Muslim to do the same?
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Sorry – Kim Davis (thx for her name) had a job to do. She was paid by the taxpayers to do her job and issue marriage licenses. She was not hired or paid to determine who got one. Gay marriage is legal. Period. Don’t want to issue marriage licenses? Get another job. Paid to do a job? Do it.
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Blind obedience to the state was the defense of those tried at Nuremberg following the Nazi holocaust. It was not accepted then and it should not be accepted now. The terms of Kim Davis’s job changed — and not through proper legislative action — but by a decision of the Supreme Court. In a Democratic Republic, Congress is the only body which can enact new laws. The Supreme Court can not do that. It is not adequately equipped with the proper training from the wide variety of disciplines and representation required for that mandate. Its focus is much more narrow It can only rule on the Constitutionality of any given law. Which in this case it failed to do) So the legal status of Kim Davis’s job was unclear. And there were other options which were available to resolve this dilemma. The activist judge, in this case, however, wanted to make an example of Ms Davis and threw her in prison, rather than making any required effort to accommodate her beliefs.
That is plain old fashioned persecution.
But lets put this in another similar context. Lets say you are a bureaucrat in the 19th Century following the infamous Dred Scott case, where the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that African Americans were not fully human and that slavery was legal. Would you sign a document giving ownership of a slave to some plantation owner simply because you were ordered to do so by the state? .
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You make a point – but regarding your Dred Scott question, there is another option – I would simply leave the job.
Clearly there is a place for resistance. Clearly we will not know the “right” things to do in every moment, but we must make a decision with the best information we have. You see it one way, I see it another way. We are not going to agree. And you are no more likely to convince me than I am to convince you.
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Quitting one’s job may not be a difficulty for some, especially those who are well off with few dependents. But it can be a ruinous sacrifice for those who are not in that economic category. For these it simply is not a practical option. For sure many are being forced use it. Increasingly doctors, nurses and other medical practitioners are being forced by law to participate and perform abortions, euthanasia and assisted suicides in some western nations. Imagine going through all that education — years and years of difficult training and higher education to become a medical doctor — only to have your license refused because you refuse to participate in an abortion!. It may soon be forced upon some pastors (Sweden is a case in point) as well who refuse to participate in homosexual “wedding” ceremonies. In the case of Kim Davis, even this option was denied since she was thrown in prison before the other options she had suggested (and was hoping for accommodation on) were discussed.
I suspect that you are right, that we will not be able to convince each other. I can certainly “agree to disagree”. But for so many, that is not possible. They have to “jam” those who don’t share their political perspective — as we are seeing from so many here on this site.
We all need to focus on listening to each other and trying to understand each others’ perspectives, rather than condemning and imputing evil motivations on fellow believers in Christ. Christ gave us Matthew 18 as a way of resolving conflicts between believers. And Christ’s methods work.
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Dear friends once you accept God as your Lord and Savior,the Holy Spirit is your guide.No preacher,or any person is my judge.This alone will control your mind,your mouth and your whole christian life. What others do or say belongs to God on judgement day.Don’t ruin your joy by stressing over others mistakes. WWJD is how we live. Restore your soul by trying this. Spoken from the heart.
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Thank you so much for this wonderful and well-written piece. I could not agree with you more. We’re called to love. We were told 365 times in the Bible to not fear – and yet so much of what we see in the US, and from other Christians – is a spirit of fear. What have we got to lose by loving people and seeing that our neighbors who have less than us have access to healthcare, education, food, and the freedom to go about their lives without harassment or fear? Nothing. We don’t store up our treasures here.
Well done and thank you so much!
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Amen.
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And amen!
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Mary, you are right. Christians are called to love. So why can’t we love Rev Graham (who has done more to provide health, food, education and other necessities to the poorest of the poor than most people have ever imagined doing) and Donald Trump? Is there an exception in the Bible for these two individuals?
And if we are not to fear, why are you so afraid of what Donald Trump is supposedly going to do? Why is it wrong for someone to decry the persecution that is growing with the US judicial system, and around the world against Christians, but its somehow OK to fear the changes which the new administration is bringing in?
Do you not see a double standard here? As Jesus put it, ” first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:5)
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Maybe that’s why your “small”.
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I could not agree more with you Peter.
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Thank you, Pastor Peter, for giving me a glimmer of hope. I have felt alone out here in the world, as the Grahams and Robertsons and Fallwells and countless others constantly barrage us with their views of what “good Christians” must believe. The audacity of claiming to speak for God is so incredibly offensive. I have been tired, so very tired, of all the fighting and shaming and judging, supposedly in God’s name. So thank you. Thank you for restoring me and reminding me that we are not alone in this. I am sorry for the nastiness you have doubtless encountered in advocating for social justice. Peace!
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Linda! If you are, to quote you: ” tired, so very tired, of all the fighting and shaming and judging, supposedly in God’s name”, then why are you doing that yourself in “shaming and judging” men like Graham, Robertson, and Fallwell?
If its wrong to do it, why are you doing it?
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Linda!! Hang on!! There are lots of us out here, CHRISTIANS, who are with you.
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Perfect I hope he read it !
Mel Middleton you said Franklin heals the sick ? If you are a Christian you would know that no man pastor or anyone can heal , only God himself heals ! I guess you can all pretend that he’s ultra spiritual only time will tell !
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Peter, aren’t you being just a little bit pedantic?
Unless you are one of those who refuse to take your child to the doctor when he/she is seriously ill, you will know that while God is the one who heals, He uses physicians, nurses and medical personnel — like those of Samaritan’s Purse for whom Rev Graham is responsible — to administer proper medical and health treatment for the sick.
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Would this self-righteous Pharisee recognize Jesus in a modern context?
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Very good question Conrad!
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What kind of Pastor writes such a rude sanctimonious letter! Glad only a few people are in his church being influenced by him if that’s the way he is.
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Wow, God is love. Jesus came to be our example. Christians, please be kind to each other. You are an example to us sinners who are not as perfect, or as credible a judge as you are. We will follow your lead.
Sincerely watching you all. Amen
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Reblogged this on Literary Nirvana and commented:
A reasonably long read, but one to undertake nethertheless.
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Spot on.
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I’m really disappointed in this letter. I agree that there is a difference between losing ones life vs their property, but to say Christians losing property and being blacklisted is not persecution is a cruel, heartless lie. If this were being done to other groups we would call it a civil rights violation (by the way, it did-Joe McCarthy, and Jim Crow laws). Looks like Christians are the new untouchable caste in America today. And I’m really sad that there is one more pastor who is willing to throw his own brothers and sisters under the bus in order to placate those who wish to ban real Christian faith in this country.
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Well said Joel. Thanks for speaking out.
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I don’t really even know how anybody can’t see through this. this is one of the seven churches that Christ is talking about in Revelations. Pastor do you realize you’re going to have to answer to this when Jesus comes back. Who knows how many people you have led astray with your just tweaking the word of God a little bit
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Very witty and well written, not sure the sarcasm was necessary. I understand the point, and there are a few elements I agree with, at least in principle. I think the style detracts from the substance.
A few things to keep in mind. Jesus called for the poor and sick to be cared for. But He called for this to be done by the Body of Christ, The Church. He did not call for the government to care for the poor and the sick. The government programs that care for those in need are set up to perpetuate poverty. They have incentives in them to stay in them. We have 4th and 5th generation welfare families. Further, they promote a victim/entitlement status among those receiving their services. The Church needs to be helping these people. Christians themselves, not the Government. Resources that are abused and wasted by government programs could have been handled vastly better by Christian Charity organizations.
With regard to those who have refused service for same sex weddings. I think it is important to understand these people are expressing sincerely held beliefs. You may not agree with their beliefs but they clearly hold them in all seriousness. Acts 4:19 “But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge; for we cannot stop speaking about what we have seen and heard.” and Acts 5:29 “But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.” Both indicate that when men give orders that contradict God’s will we are to obey God rather than men. You may not agree that when the Government orders someone serve cake at a same-sex marriage it contradicts God’s will, but clearly, these people do feel that way. And as for them being persecuted for it. They have lost businesses, savings, homes. Standing up for what they consider to be God’s will has cost them a great deal.
As a fellow pastor of a small rural church, I would make one last comment. I know you want to write compelling entertaining posts, however, it is crucial that we consider the impact of not only our words and ideas but the manner in which we state them. Ephesians 4:29 “Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.”
I understand and even agree with some of the content of what you were trying to get across. But I humbly ask. Was it edifying? Did it give grace?
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So your small church pastor hasn’t got a following because he is pro big government. The government is of the people, for the people, and by the people. We the people vote for the president. Only whiny babies scream and kick when they don’t get their way!
Franklin Graham has read the Bible his entire life and he lives it as best as he knows how. You small church pastor pick and choose what you want to obey. There are so many wrongs in your oration, but pretending to respect someone when you do not is just one of them. I don’t care to name all of them for I feel it will just fall on deaf ears.
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Trisha, do not accuse Peter of picking and choosing unless you refrain from wearing clothing made of wool and linen, you do not cut your hair, in your church women are silent, and so on. We ALL read the Bible and pick and choose, probably including you.
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Your example of wearing clothing made of linen and wool misses the mark. Old Testament ceremonial laws are not normative for today. What is obligatory for Christians is the eternal moral law of God, which Christ affirmed in his teachings when He came to earth, and which was explained by the New Testament authors who were inspired by the Holy Spirit. There may be some issues which are not that clear in the Scriptures and to which there may be variety of legitimate interpretations. But there are others on which there has been consensus within orthodox Christendom for 2000 years. On those issues, theology is not buffet style. The sanctity of human life, and the sanctity of marriage are among those clear teachings of Christ which are not up for grabs.
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I really doubt this is a preacher writing this letter.
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Thanks Peter
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What does he do with all the money donated for the poor and homeless. He has a big beautiful home, servants, a jet, a llimosene, expensive clothes, etc.? Our little church had a fundraiser and every cent went to help the homesless.
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Do you know this or are you just assuming?
The money that he raises which is designated for the poor and homeless goes to the poor and homeless with roughly 6 % deduction for essential administrative costs. That’s much better than most other charitable organizations, some of which charge far more for administration. Why don’t you write to Samaritan’s Purse and ask them for an audited statement of their financial reports.
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Amen Pastor. Your letter is truth and is the reflection of our savior Jesus Christ. Thank you for doing God’s work. The devil never sleeps but you just knocked him down
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Satam is referred to as “the Accuser of the Brethren”. Pastor Peter has just saved the ole devil a lot of work.
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Thank you for a thoughtfully crafted piece that clearly delineates the boundary between yourself and Frank (ha) … along with clear analysis, just the right amount of sarcasm. I know, from some of the comments above, you have tweaked the nose of the devil, and he’s howling like mad.
While I much disagree with the father, he was a good and decent man who loved people. While the son has his Samaritan’s Purse, I find in him a coldness that chills my soul, which often spills out as plain hatred of Muslims and other groups.
You have rendered a good service here, and I can only hope that those who have been beguiled by Frank and the whole evangelical movement toward the hard right of the GOP, will take your words seriously, if only for a moment or two.
As for you, keep up the good work, keep on writing, and don’t get caught in the foul nets of hate flung your way … dance around them, ignore them (though they hurt) don’t waste your time trying to answer them. You’ve already done the work needed. Now, let the yeast do its work in the dough.
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With so many people so anxious to do his work for him, the devil is, I’m sure, quite satisfied. Rather than his nose “being tweaked” it is high in the air and snorting with glee. While we could hope that this would make him relax, I suspect it will simply just give him more time to do what he loves to do most: devour more souls and deceive the nations!
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As for the things you have spoken about I don’t disagree other than your attitude Ephesians 4:23be made new in the attitude of your mind.So your attitude makes the article nul and void.
Respectively
Pastor Peter
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Greetings from a disciple to the Pastor of that small town. You are wrong. We need to be humble but also clever and not because the end of the world means redention to us we should promote it!
Find wisdom, not humans but God’s
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Talking down to whomever you’re address is the height of rudeness. Frank, do you know who Peter is, and Paul ( aka Saul) all left me so non plused(aka negative) that I couldn’t hear anything you had to say. Do you know why nobody cares for a donkey that goes to college?
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Addressing not address
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Notice that this “small town” pastor is not even identified. Perter who?
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Reblogged this on cwresidentexchange and commented:
SO TRUE, SO WELL WRITTEN WISH THE WORLD COUL READ IT. IT IS THE KIND OF FATH AND THOUGHT THIS QUAKER BOY LEARNED FROM MY ELDERS IN PORTSMOUTH VIRGINIA USA. SO BE IT.
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I stand with Frank!
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Pete seems you two fall into the same ranks as Frank. You cherry picked your way through the Bible with great skill leaving out things that doesn’t support your beliefs. How about James the brother of Jesus that wrote any among you sick gather together the elders of the Church and confess your sins and be heald. I guess all those people that did not think they could do this, did you not teach them this in your small Church. Oh by the way the disciples told Jesus to send them away for they are hungry but Jesus said you feed them not the government and he done it with two fishes and five loaves so go and do like wise because I know you want to be more like Jesus. How about letting each of you work out your own salvation with the words I have spoken to you. I know we are just unredeemable deplorables. Pete go back and read the entire Bible and ask the Holy Spirit lead you through it, leave Frank alone and be more consernd about you own faults. Understand the parable of the Tares on the last day God and the angles will separate the good from the bad. He said if we do it we’ll trample out the good along with the bad. I don’t believe that is what you want to be guilty of. It’s time I myself must return and read more of his word I’m just 72 and still got a lot to learn. Blessing on all this day may we be united in Christ.
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So true, clear and obvious. Bless your words as they show the way….
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This is sad.
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Were I close enough, i would attend your small church with joy!
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How is it that people hate people who seem successful and have money? As to the letter Peter wrote, (I hope you do not mind if I call you Peter, Peter) you seem to be well versed in your selected scripture to suit your agenda to insult pastor Franklin. There are many other verses as well, one comes to mind ~11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
James 4:11 NIV
Choosing to serve a cake to homosexuals for marriage is different than “feeding the hungry”. Just like abortions just because the law allows it does not mean you have to have one or perform one! The Bible is clear on these 2 issues. You hate the sin but love the sinner that does NOT mean you have to enable sin or go against your own personal convictions Peter that is what made this country great! Peter you talk about the good works your church does did you read the part in your bible about how you can not get to heaven through works? It’s through grace a gift for those who know and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ who died and rose again conquering death and sin. In no way does it mean condone others sin or your own. If you love “truly” love someone you do want to tell them the truth once you die that’s it no second chances. The Jesus that Christians follow in the Bible died and overcame sin and gave the same victory to those who seek Him and serve Him
Also in America a privately owned business can refuse service to anyone for any reason. There’s a thing called integrity you either have it or you don’t! People who have integrity like Frank, stand for their beliefs and do not deceive people in the wrong way of thinking. You not selling someone a cake does not say I do not like you it says I love you enough to not hide behind money (selling a cake for profit) to say it goes against my belief in marriage that the God I serve created and I can not participate in that. Boy that devil is sneaky! Before you go and pat yourself on the back Peter for disrespecting a brother in Christ maybe you need to be still and go to the throne and reread all of your Bible. As far as Trump you are right with your remarks but maybe you did not know or realize who his competitor was and what her platform is? At the end of the day life is short eternity is a long time to not love someone enough to lead them in the right direction…
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Exellent letter Rhonda. Thank you!
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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
I have one of my own….
First they came for the cake, and I did not speak out
Because I did not sell cakes
Then they came for the T-shirts, and I did not speak out
Because I was not in the trade
Then they came because ….. you fill in the blanks
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I want to mention just one thing….is this man truly a small church pastor. Is he truly a man of God. I cannot judge his intent only God can….but his words seem to say he can judge intent because he does not seem to understand actions. If anyone believes that an attack on the Christian Church is not happening here and throughout the world he is not just blind but deaf as well. I ask this man one question….when you stand before God, will He be proud of your one dimensional rancor against a leader God commands us to pray for and another man that has the history of Rev Graham?
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…… I think it’s “crazy good” that so many people are responding to this letter. Our society has put the same fearful bias on everything from politics, to athletic teams, to religion, and everything in between. We are taught that God made us all equal, there is no degree of sin, and there is only one unforgivable sin. And yet we judge each other by a standard that God doesn’t use on His children. It’s human nature to need to be better than someone else. We are so fortunate to be saved by God’s Grace, and not mans opionated judgement. I feel like there are fewer “people” than ever, that would let me into heaven. But I’ll be there……
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Thank you, Peter, for voicing much of the confusion I have been feeling concerning apparent Christian support for what I see as actions and dogma that are in total opposition to what I believe Christ taught us by his words and example. It’s all about love and acceptance, not fear and hatred.
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Jesus said to speak the truth in love. You can’t separate the two. Sometimes we do t want to hear the truth. But, in the end if we listen and obey it will set you free.
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Boselipe. If its all about love and acceptance, why do so many who call themselves Christians not love or accept Rev Franklin Graham and recognize all the good work that he is doing. And why do so many fear and hate Donald Trump?
If its “good for the goose, its good for the gander”.
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Attacking each other is not what builds unity. And if it’s just “pastor to pastor”, why publish it on a public website where the whole world can view the disunity between two opposing views of Christian leaders. God, forgive us and help us.
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Exactly! Thanks Kim!
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If you don’t see Christianity being chipped away at little by little you are either thick headed or purposely blind to the PC b.s. that is being forced upon us. Why would a gay couple purposely try and force a Christian bakery to make a cake for them knowing that homosexuality isn’t an accepted practice in most Christian churches/families? Want to really be edgy go to a Halal/Muslim bakery? They kill gays, throwing them off of buildings and other horrible atrocities. Why is it we are forced to accept all other cultures beliefs and religions but want to pray as a Christian at an event or meeting and the ACLU is filing a lawsuit? I just see this “little country preacher” trying to garner attention and stirring the shit pot, now he should be made to lick the spoon.
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This article was reclogged on Espirational Faith (espirational.org) and the following comment was placed there anonymously placed there thanking the article’s author: “God gave us free will and man is trying to take that free will away. God is the only judge and he loves all is children. Excellent letter Pastor Peter.”
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Very sarcastic. To whom much is given much is required. I can’t think of anyone who has done more with or without his position. God raises up one and puts down another. God is Mr.Grahams only judge. And He has put him in this position for a purpose. You have your purpose so go do it. Pray for your brother, in Christ, as he does what he is called todo as well.
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Thank you Pastor Peter. Well said. God bless…
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As an agnostic at best, leaning more to atheism every day, it is refreshing to read a piece of truth that Peter wrote here. Make no mistake your buddy Graham and all his tv evangelical millionaire buddies on the 700 club and TBN are indeed the perverbial wolf in sheeps clothing. What is hilarious is reading those defending Graham. Here is a guy whose organization removed a article on their website talking about how Mormonism is a cult twenty minutes before Billy Graham publicly met and endorsed Mitt Romney in the last election. Hypocrites!The same moron who claimed the same about catholics thirty years prior. I love the amorality of evangelical trump supporters. If your Jesus was on earth today would he attend a Graham crusade or would you find him on skid row, among druggies and prostitutes, along the southern border giving water to illegal immigrants or would he be flying around in his lear jet with Graham and his televangelist buddies?Thank you for opening my eyes to truth rather than a hateful, malignant and jealous God.
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If Jesus were here on earth today, I suspect that He would be going to the places where Rev Franklin Graham and his teams of medical and humanitarian workers go! to the poorest of the poor! to, the victims of persecution, famine, and civil conflict, who the rest of the world has forgotten, and in places where others are too afraid or find too difficult to go. He would be doing what Rev Graham is doing, helping the “least of these”, “speaking out for the rights of all who are oppressed”, and preaching the good news of salvation to everyone.
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And if this is the case, how on earth can Franklin Graham be supporting the current president, who is priorities are the complete antithesis of Jesus???
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Judy. The short answer is that while Trump is no saint, his policies DO reflect more of the teachings of Christ than did those of either Hilary or her predecessor, Obama. Here’s a few of the areas where what Trump has either proposed to do or has already done is more in keeping with Christianity.
1. UNBORN CHILDREN. Trump has at least listened to the concerns about the lack of the very right to life of America’s most precious and vulnerable lives — the unborn children. For sure it is not enough yet. But it is far more than the other two who show such contempt for these innocent lives;
2. VETERANS. These men and women who have sacrificed so much for their country have been forced to come home to endure serious neglect and even abuse at the hands of the VA. Is this Christlike? Donald Trump has vowed to change this, and there is clear evidence that he is doing this;
3. VICTIMS OF RADICAL ISLAM. Those who have suffered the most at the hands of groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Al Shabaab, Boko Haram, LRA, MNLF, Abu Sayaaf, and even home grown Islamic terrorism in the USA have been given short shrift by Hilary and Obama. In fact, rebel groups allied with ISIS and Al Qaeda received substantial assistance and strategic resources from the Obama/Clinton administration. According to church leaders in Nigeria, Obama refused to provide information gained from satellite to the Nigerian government on the whereabouts of the more than 200 school girls abducted by Boko Haram because that the government of Nigeria at the time refused to allow for homosexual marriages. And why would the number of Yazidi and Christian refugees (who are taking the brunt of the ISIS savagery, including beheadings and brutal cruelty to children) be so disproportionally lower than those of other groups who have not experienced as severe persecution? Would Christ ignore the plight of these victims in such a way?
4. VICTIMS OF CRIMINALS WHO ENTER THE USA ILLEGALLY. (Remember, loving one’s neighbor as oneself includes the mandate to love potential future victims of crime, just as much as loving the enemies who commit them. And what better way to love these folk than to prevent them from becoming victims)
5. AFRICAN AMERICANS IN GHETTOS IN THE INNER CITY. (Really, what did Obama/Clinton do for these people caught up in the maze of poverty, government hand outs, crime and drug gangs? Honestly!)
I could list many others ….
But most importantly, the primary duty of any government administration is to protect its citizens and to provide a climate where peace, freedom, and prosperity can flourish; where each person’s potential can be realized; where stumbling blocks and impediments to growth, employment, and development are removed. The role of the state is not the same as the role of the church.
The prophet Amos succinctly summarized the duty of God’s people with respect to the role of the state: “Let justice roll down like a river; and righteousness like a never ending stream!”
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Judy, EXACTLY!
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I have never known Billy Graham to get political from the platform of his ministry. His ministry has always been focused on preaching the saving grace of God through the atoning death of his Son Jesus Christ, to ALL people.
I am saddened to see that Franklin is apparently taking a very different road and taking the ministry entrusted to him down this same road.
The ministry of the gospel is not to get tied up in political alliances, for you end up in serious trouble. The Bible says in Timothy 2:4, “No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs–he wants to please his commanding officer.”
For an evangelical leader to champion a political leader as openly ungodly throughout his life as Donald Trump has been (vulgar talk about females, building casinos, declaring bankruptcy, divorcing his first wife then marrying a second time a woman who has posed nude for the camera) leaves the world confused as to “what exactly did Jesus teach us?”
The Bible says in Ephesians 5:3: “But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people”.
For evangelical Christians in America, it would be better to remain silent on the subject of supporting Donald Trump because the world is watching you and I believe becoming increasingly confused. Even the students at Liberty University (Jerry Falwell’s institution) spoke out against their university president (Jerry Falwell Junior) supporting Donald Trump.
Franklin Graham, please get back to preaching and teaching the gospel (like your father did), without engaging in the political polarisation that Trump creates. You will not win that arena. It will cost you greatly.
Praying for you that Gods wisdom will prevail.
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Yes!! Yes indeed!!
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I understand what you are saying, and appreciate you expressing your views in a straightforward and logical way, without the condescension, sarcasm, insults and straw men that have characterized so much of the anti-Trump rhetoric. You do make some good points. Under normal circumstances, I would agree with you wholeheartedly about not identifying too closely with any one political party or candidate. And certainly you are correct that Donald Trump has not exactly led a life of moral virtue. I too am very wary of Mr. Trump and am reticent to place too much trust in his leadership.
But here are some things to consider.
American and western civilization is facing a huge crisis! A crisis for its very survival. As we look at the course our culture has taken over the past few decades, with the destruction of the sanctity of human life, the attacks on personal freedoms, the contempt for the sanctity of marriage, for the Constitution, and a host of other events and issues which would have baffled our ancestors. Both sides of the political aisle have been following this “broad path that leads to destruction”. Many Christian leaders see what is happening as literally the end of American culture and civilization as we know it. And I certainly am inclined to agree.
There is a biblical comparison which I think is appropriate. And it is found in the book of Esther. You will recall the plot by Haman to exterminate the Jewish people, and how he managed to dupe the emperor, King Artaxerxes, into backing it.
Artaxerxes and Trump have a lot in common. Both are men who were boastful of their achievements; bragged about their women and wealth, and had many other vices in common. But when it came down to the crunch, this pagan, godless king ended up saving the Jewish nation. And he did so because he listened to the voice of God’s people. In the case of the Persian emperor, that voice was through Esther the Queen. Donald Trump, in a similar way, has listened to the voice of those decrying the moral free-fall of our nations in the West, the plight of the millions of precious unborn children whose lives are snuffed out each year; the loss of freedoms and the march of tyranny and corruption headed by the snake pit of DC criminals infesting the entrenched seats of cultural and spiritual power in the land.
Whenever anyone speaks out on an issue of justice, it will affect the political dynamics. While we can separate the institutions of the state and the church, it is neither possible nor desirable to separate religion from politics, since that would mean neglecting to do justice. And neglecting justice was what earned the Pharisees the label of “brood of vipers” from Jesus Himself. They were the ones who were “straining at gnats” while “swallowing camels”.
Perhaps the time is indeed ripe to heed the words of the Italian poet, Dante Alighieri, (famous for his “Inferno” and depiction of hell) who wrote: “the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great crisis, retain their neutrality”.
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Peter, I don’t know if you are ego tripping on your perceptions or just like rambling on to collect points from the all mighty. The millions that have been helped by Samaritans Purse is ignored by your unsigned work of art. You are small because you are small. If you were credible and wish to compete with people who have changed that work visit S.P. and help the masses instead of keeping your head in the sand. Rev. Graham did not choose the President the people of America did. The present President is more complicated than your CNN mind and will be judged by the main dude as well as you in the end.
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Oh it must be, Peter Pan. Who comes afar, from neverland
– basically if any of you actually believe that “Peter” is a real person or that he, any way, represents “small church pastors” in America… please log out of social media and don’t ever come back in until you are properly educated!!
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I’m not sure that any of you have ever personally have meet Franklin. I have know him for over 40 years. I worked with Franklin on World Medical Mission and Samaritans Purse. He is not the person who is in this letter. The letter is from a Pastor who is so wrong about Franklins work. I know for a fact he has fed the poor, provided Doctors, Med’s and most of all his
TIME in helping people around the world and here at home.
Donald Ader
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Exactly! Very well said! Thanks
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Petulant and unbelievably naive. This “pastor” sounds like most of the pastors who thought Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a renegade for standing against Hitler. I am so thankful that “Frank” and people like him are standing strong against government run amok. We must try to stem the tide of immorality and debauchery when it effects us all in the public square. We can love our neighbors and “feed” them without baking cakes for their gay weddings. The examples in this post were comical but not logical. I too am a pastor and have been at small country churches like Peter and I am praying fervently that other pastors don’t adopt his logic and/or reasoning. May we stand strong and unapologetically for the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ!
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“I am so thankful that “Frank” and people like him are standing strong against government run amok. We must try to stem the tide of immorality and debauchery when it effects us all in the public square”
Good grief – you want to stem the tide of immorality and debauchery, and you support the current president??? Is there any logic to this position???
It appears that when decisions go against your (in my view rather narrow) viewpoint, you call it Immorality and debauchery. Otherwise, not so much. Although I suspect you will consider my calling it a narrow viewpoint a compliment.
Interesting.
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Its actually very logical if you look a bit deeper. When Trump did and said all those nasty and immoral things, he was following the “way of the world”. He was supporting the direction that America was going. And he was a Democrat at the time who supported the Clintons.
He now appears to have changed direction. We may be correct to be skeptical, but in the short time he has been in office he has chosen a Supreme Court judge who is reportedly pro life and pro Constitution. He has selected a solidly pro life and man of sterling moral character as vice president.
Hilary, and the Democratic Party, on the other hand, want to continue on the destructive path which America has been taking for far too long. That is their political platform and policy.
One can support the President without condoning his sinful past, When the children of Israel followed Moses, they were not endorsing his murder of an Egyptian. When they followed Sampson, they were not endorsing his womanizing and immorality; when they followed King David, they were not endorsing his adultery with Bathsheba.
The question is, which direction are they facing now?
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Excellent! And great analogy with Dietrich Bonhoeffer! Thanks!
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Dear Peter
As a Christian in the UK can I just say BRILLIANT.
I am obviously reading the same version of the Bible as you are because that is exactly how I understand it and try to help others in my own small way.
Thank you
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Helping others is exactly what Rev Graham, the subject of such merciless and false vilification in this open letter, is doing.
To imply that the injunctions of Matthew 25 are not being taken seriously by Rev Graham, as the letter from “pastor” Peter does, is simply a false accusation, and one that is clearly baffling! It would be like accusing Mother Teresa of ignoring the plight of the poor in Calcutta. If you are reading the same Bible over there in the UK, then you will note that one of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20 is: “Thou shalt not bear false witness”. Have the churches in the UK also done away with these commandments as so many of those who hate Christianity in America are trying to do? If not, how can you say that such a false witness is “brilliant”?
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Pete, can I call you Pete? Sometime you should try reading the Bible you claim to reference. It is not a buffet where you pick out what you like and ignore the rest. And with your massive confusion, you are not a small church pastor, but rather a small minded pastor. The Bible has a lot to say about jealousy and envy; maybe you should read THOSE parts before you spout off about subjects you apparently know nothing about and reveal how insignificant you feel because you don’t have a mega-church. I can assure you, Pete, that more worship takes place in a small church than ever took place in a mega-church; but perhaps not with a self-righteous, sanctimonious person as you occupying the role of “pastor”.
A guy by the name of Paul (have you heard of him? he wrote half of the New Testament) advised to be content in whatever circumstances you find yourself. So drop the arrogance, Pete, get down off of your high horse, and try to act like a Christian rather than the judge of the human race; God is the only one with that sort of authority.
I’m glad you are praying, Pete; we will also pray with you that you might see the Light so as to not lead many people, including yourself, astray.
And by the way, Pete, let me give you a head start on judgment day; Jesus will not ask us how we treated the poor, hungry, etc., as you suggest. No, the only thing that will matter then is if we know Him, not our works or what we did while alive on earth.
Finally, Pete, let me help you with one other issue. There are several references in the Bible to the sin of homosexuality and how it is an abomination. God would want all to turn from that sin, but He will not just accept that sin as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. We can see through what you say, Pete, to your real agenda; you are in favor of homosexuality. No sin will keep you out of heaven if you have accepted Jesus as your savior. But that does not make homosexuality any less a sin; in earthly terms it is a more heinous sin because it destroys the family and as a result, all of society.
If you get this arrogant and self-righteous over who is sitting in the White House, you truly do need prayer and help! I’m sure “Frank” is praying for you and your spiritual void.
I will not be so ashamed of my stance, Pete, as to show only my first name.
Fred L. Hein
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Thank you Pastor Peter! I couldn’t agree with you more. I respected Billy Graham but have been completely turned off by his son. It has undone so much his father worked for n 80 plus years. I haven’t wanted to step foot n a physical church because of the actions of (Frank) and other pastors n America. It’s quite disgusting to be exact. Who are we the to judge the gay, black, poor and etc…
I love everybody who is a good caring person no matter where they come from or who they love. Who are we to judge? Thank Pastor Peter for being a compassionate REAL child of God! I would come to ur church any day.
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Jodi. Isn’t your post just a little self contradictory? You just finished maligning Rev Franklin Graham, calling him “disgusting”. Then you proceed to tell us all that you “love everybody”.
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Dear Small Church Pastor Peter
Thank You, Thank You. Please keep on spreading your message. The truth at last!
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Delusional
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“Love your enemies…”
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No one has the right to decide who is or is not a Christian. Only GOD knows the heart. Trump was elected because Hillary was WORSE. Believe what you want to believe. I think it was King Saul that GOD gave the people because they wanted him. GOD never intended for us to have a King. However, mankind knew better than GOD and they bickered back and forth like many of you do today. GOD granted them their king. If you read the Bible, it will tell you when they had a King that did not do what was right in the sight of the LORD and that the LORD allowed him to be King.
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Hillary was worse, why? Because she’s an intelligent woman who is therefore hated by simpletons like you?
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Camille. For one, she sat idly by while hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children were massacred in Rwanda. Her husband, the President, could have acted to save them. All it would have taken is a decision by him to allow the UN Security Council to change the mandate of the peacekeepers. But he refused, and she said nothing.
And her support for abortion — right up to past the time when these precious children can feel the pain of being torn apart in the womb, shows that she has total contempt for the most fundamental of all human rights — the right to life of everyone.
It is only a small baby step from turning a blind eye to the killing of innocent human life in the womb, to turning a blind eye to the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in a holocaust.
Hillary has demonstrated that she is quite capable of taking that baby step.
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I see–so basically, Mel, you are saying that an unrepentant sexual predator who brags about literally forcing himself onto women that he finds desirable and who wants to have sex with his daughters is far preferable to you to an intelligent and outspoken woman who believes that a person with a uterus has the right to their bodily autonomy, just because her husband did the same shameful thing that the leaders of France, the UK, and the rest of the UNSECO did in the face of genocide.
And as for your “fetal pain” lie:
That is a myth–there is exactly no science that supports you on that, and a sketchy YouTube video made by brood-slavers like you and your fellow KKKristians is not evidence or proof of anything. Furthermore, having a uterus does not make the person with the uterus a brood-chattel that must be made to carry a pregnancy to term against their will. I aborted a pregnancy, and I have exactly ZERO shame about it. There was no way I wanted to be reminded of the horror of sexual assault, and there is exactly no way that you or any other KKKristian will ever convince me that it was a “blessing” that I was raped and became pregnant as a result.
Thank you yet again for reminding me why I ran screaming from the abusive, hateful, and murderous belief system that is Christianity.
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Camille. I’m afraid your grasp of the facts are incorrect. First fetal pain is not a myth. There is increasing evidence that these precious children are able to feel such painful sensations at ages of gestation earlier than had been thought. All you need to do is google “fetal pain” and you will receive a plethora of scholarly and scientific evidence that unborn children do feel pain, even before 20 weeks. And if there is any doubt about it, we should err on the side of NOT causing that kind of pain and death on the life of an innocent person.
Second, it was the USA, not Britain or France who led the move to prevent the UN Security Council (not UNESCO) from changing the mandate of the peace keeping troops already on the ground from a Chapter VI to a Chapter VII where they would have been able to protect women from being raped, and women, children and men from being hacked to death by drunk militia men. You, of all people, should be able to understand the horrors of this terrible tragedy! Imagine a President who knew that the action he was going to take would facilitate and allow the rape and carnage of tens of thousands of women, while his wife, who also knew this, sat idly by and said nothing.
Yes I am very sorry that you were raped. That was an awful tragedy. But having the abortion did not take that tragedy away. It merely added another one on top of it. Your anger and hatred for me and others who support the sanctity of all human life betrays the fact that you DID, in fact, suffer from your abortion. To quote Mother Teresa: “”Abortion kills twice. It kills the body of the baby and it kills the conscience of the mother. Abortion is profoundly anti-women. Three quarters of its victims are women: Half the babies and all the mothers.”
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Save your false sympathy for somebody stupid enough to believe them, slaver. You’re not at all sorry that I was raped, you’re just sorry that I exercised my freedom and my gods-given right to my own bodily autonomy and rid myself of a parasitic organism that was forced upon me by my rapist. And furthermore, your quoting a horrible woman who believed that forcing people to suffer was necessary to bring about the love of your hateful and abusive demiurge does exactly NOTHING to sway me.
Fetal pain is a myth. There is exactly *no* science that supports you on this. Your telling me to go to google is only telling me that you know that you are a goddamn liar, and you don’t want to admit it. Fetal pain is a myth. You made the original claim that it is actually real, so the onus is on *you* to provide evidence that supports your claim.
As for the genocide: the US did not lead the charge on that–it was a joint action by the Permanent Members of the UNSECO. Blame is shared equally.
Just admit that you’re A-OK with rapists, racists, and other such filth as long as they claim to follow your twisted and malignant deity, and let’s move on shall we?
And don’t even come at me with that passive-aggressive “I’ll pray for you” nonsense. I am an EX-Christian, I know full well what it means: that you hold me in such contempt that you’re going to ask your god to force himself on me in the hopes that he’ll magically force me to come back into the fold as a properly subservient slave.
May Odin bless you and your family.
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Once again, Camille, you continue to prove my points by your hostility and open anger. The more you vent your rage, (including at someone like Mother Teresa) the more you demonstrate that what happened did, in fact, bring harm to you. What was removed from your body was not a “parasite”, but a living, human life, which is as sacred as anyone else’s. You have stated that you are an atheist, and therefore are not supposed to recognize what is sacred and what is not. But without the concept of human life being sacred, a whole Pandora’s box of the kind of horrors that were all too prevalent during the 20th Century, with the Gestapos, the Gulags, and the guillotines is opened up! If you can describe a living child in the womb as a parasite, why should anyone be surprised when someone else calls another human life an equally dehumanizing term to make it more palatable to destroy in a gas chamber or “killing field”?
And you could not be more wrong about me. I am not OK with rapists or racists or any other things I was accused of. I have spent most of my life trying to prevent those kinds of evil things from happening. And so has Rev Franklin Graham. In order to change someone from being a rapist or racist or any other kind of sinner, one needs the saving Grace of God. It is only His power which can change the human heart from that which is depraved into one that is sanctified and made whole. And that is done through the acceptance of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
As for the fetal pain. I was not avoiding providing you the information because it was not available, but because I was in a rush at that time. But I will give you some now which you will see provide ample evidence that many of the children who are being aborted in the womb to experience this horrendous pain.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/845410
Click to access Fetal-Pain.pdf
http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com/
Yes, I will be praying for you. But no, I do not hold you in any contempt. On the contrary, I can see that you are a very precious person! Someone with so much value. And God does not force Himself on anyone. But He does offer more than you could ever ask or think. Jesus said: “I have come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly”. You mentioned that you are an “ex-Christian”. But I wonder if you ever did have the opportunity to really know God personally; to commune with Him, and to enjoy His presence. So many people grow up in churches but never even come to know God. The best, most joyful, most fulfilling life that you could ever have, is when you are in the center of God’s will, and are enjoying His daily presence in your life. I do wish that for you, and will pray that you find that! ‘Seek and ye shall find” 🙂
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The sites you mentioned are not legitimate sources of information–medscape is a “woo” site that will publish anything and everything even if it flies in the face of actual science. The other two sites are flagrant anti-choice/pro-broodslavery sites, and they present exactly no evidence other than “oh you see these pictures? PROOF!” — which, again, is not legitimate evidence. Try again.
Furthermore, you are straight up lying, and you goddamn well know it–my hostility towards people like you has been ongoing for twenty years. Your sympathies are fake and insincere, and I refuse to accept them. You can either stop lying about me and putting words in my mouth, or you can just admit that you have no other way to argue than to bear false witness.
Again: Fetal pain is a MYTH. There is exactly ZERO science that backs up your argument, you know this, and yet you persist in the delusion that a flagrantly pro-broodslavery site is somehow magical proof and peer-reviewed evidence.
Keep your prayers to yourself, especially because you’re heavily implying that I was never really Christian (because, of course, what slave would dare run away from a cruel master that threatens them with eternal torment for asking questions or for calling out hypocrisy and hatred amirite?)–sorry son, but yes I was a Christian. Baptised in the Holy Spirit and everything.
And then I actually read the Bible. I started asking questions about things like “why are we still clubbing QUILTBAG over the head with the anti-gay verses in the OT while magically declaring that it’s OK to eat pork and lobster while wearing Wool/cotton blends on a Saturday? Did Jesus do away with the Law or not?”, and was met with hostility (a pastor flatly told me that I needed to be “trained up as a good Christian woman and know [my] place”) and low-key Paulinist hate speech–you know, the sort of Paulinist garbage that you’ve been spouting this whole time. I realized that Christianity is an oppressive, hateful, and abusive belief system predicated on an abusive relationship with a hateful demiurge that demands “LOVE ME AND GROVEL BROKENLY BEFORE ME, OR I WILL PUNISH YOU WITH ETERNAL HORROR AND TORMENT.”
That is not a loving god. That is a hateful jerk who needs to be cast down and swept into the dustbin of history. You don’t follow Jesus. You follow Mammon and Saul the Pharisee.
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Camille. I do have to thank you for continuing to prove the points I have been making. Two things have become very clear in our dialogue which are important to note!
First, you have dismissed the Scriptural authority of the Pauline epistles and the apostleship of Paul, even though he is the apostle who, more than any of the others, stood most strongly against the legalistic bondage of Old Testament ceremonial laws. The entire Epistle to the Galatians can be described with the term “Freedom from the Laws of Moses”. This Pauline teaching on freedom in Christ baffled the likes of the apostle Peter. Yes, Paul was a Pharisee. But he was one who denounced (as Christ did) the Pharisaical mindset which “tithed of mint rue and cumin” yet neglected “the weightier issues of the law”. Paul was a Pharisee who rejected Pharisaical thought in favor of the freedom which we enjoy in Christ.
Were you to ask the Apostle Paul your question: ““why are we still clubbing QUILTBAG over the head with the anti-gay verses in the OT while magically declaring that it’s OK to eat pork and lobster while wearing Wool/cotton blends on a Saturday?” I suspect his answer would be that “we are not under Law, but under Grace” . The ceremonial aspects of the Mosaic Law were all pointing to the eventual (and at that time, future) work of the Redeemer in His first advent. Christ did no abolish that ceremonial Law, He fulfilled it. As for the moral law of God, which pre-dated Moses, going back to the time of Eden, it was not abolished by Christ. Instead, He raised the bar considerably. No longer was it sufficient to simply “not commit adultery”. But it is now sinful to even “look upon a woman with lust” in ones heart. Similarly for the other moral commandments of God. This is clearly explained in His Sermon on the Mount (as well as in other passages). It is not “magical” that eating pork is now permitted” but lust in the heart” for someone other than one’s spouse, is NOT. And it was Jesus, not Paul, who clearly articulated the boundaries for what a marriage relationship can be. (Matthew 19:5) “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh”. And here, Christ was quoting from Genesis 2:24. If anyone of the New Testament inspired authors were to accept any departure from Old Testament teachings, it would be Paul, not anyone else.
Second, you have dismissed (and insulted) pro life people as “broodslavers”, much in the same way as Hilary Clinton dismissed us as a “basket of deplorables”. You have thrown men and women of God, such as Mother Teresa, Rev Franklin Graham and other true saints, into the same group of deplorables. Even God Almighty! You call “a hateful jerk who needs to be cast down and swept into the dustbin of history.” It should be clear to all which side of the fence your arguments and viewpoints are coming from.
Which is why I do thank you for helping to prove my point.
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And yet again, Mel, you continue to lie and to put words into my mouth. Typical Christian.
Again: you have no science on your side regarding fetal pain–the only point that’s actually being proven is that you are a lying liar who doesn’t like being called on his lying, and who can’t handle an obdurate opponent who refuses to knuckle under to your attempts to silence them through walls of text.
Furthermore, the “ceremonial law” nonsense is just that: nonsense. It’s pale justification for hate, plain and simple. You’re also throwing out red herrings (e.g. bringing up adultery when we’re not even talking about such a thing), strawmen, and yet again drawing false equivalencies in your haste to justify using Saul the Pharisee as somehow being above Jesus on the scriptural scale–yet another reason why I am not a Christian, and again I thank you for reminding me why I ran screaming once the scales were lifted from my eyes and I saw how truly hateful and abusive Christianity is. I do not recognise Saul the Pharisee as an Apostle of Jesus–he was and is a hateful closeted misogynist who (among other things) believed that non-believers deserved death, and no amount of verbal feces that you fling at me nor mental gymnastics you attempt will sway me to your position. I have read the Bible, cover to cover, repeatedly; I do know my scripture, son, and I know what I’m talking about.
Now, let’s talk about your belief in brood-slavery. By seeking to force your twisted belief system onto others through legislation that denies any person with a uterus the right to their bodily autonomy, you are effectively condemning those persons to slavery as ambulatory incubators that must be forced to carry any and all pregnancies to term regardless of circumstance. That you cry about how I’m condemning horrible people like you, Franklin Graham, Mother Teresa, and other pro-broodslavery advocates pretty much tells me that I hit a nerve. Good! My body is MINE. *I* am the one who gets to decide who or what has access to it. Not the non-Reverend Graham, not Our Lady of Forcing The Poor To Suffer Because Jesus, not you, and certainly NOT your murderous and hateful bully of a god.
So thanks for yet again reminding me why I ran screaming from Christianity.
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Camille. I don’t know where you got the idea that I am trying to silence you. On the contrary! Along with my firm commitment to freedom of speech, I have thanked you sincerely on a number of occasions! Not because I like what you are saying. I don’t. It saddens me deeply. But I thanked you because you have demonstrated, in a way which I could never do, the true source of the beliefs and viewpoints which you and many others have put forth on this blog. Most others have tried to cloak their opinions by alluding to various interpretations of Scripture or new “progressive” Christian thought. But you make no such pretense. You have made it clear that your views come from a mindset which has been blinded by hatred towards Christianity, and a heart that is in defiance of and rebellion toward God.
Nor am I surprised by your complete dismissal of scientific and medical evidence. That has been typical of the abortion debate since the beginning. A good book to read is “Aborting America”, by Dr. Bernard Nathanson, one of the founders of NARAL who later, after witnessing an ultra sound, became one of the pro life movement’s most outspoken advocates. Other former abortionists have done a similar 180 degree turn around on this issue. Dr. Nathanson admitted that while he was with NARAL and paving the way for the Roe vs Wade decision, he and his group simply fabricated evidence and “facts” and focused on emotive imagery in a successful attempt to psychologically manipulate the public. It was the same with the so-called “recapitulation theory on human embryonic development” which was taught as scientific fact (even when I went to high school), and widely disseminated by the likes of Carl Sagan and Henry Morgentaler, despite the fact that this theory had been debunked decades previously by real scientists.
I have no problem with you having “total autonomy” of your own body. You are free to do with it as you wish, though I would strongly advise against doing anything harmful to it. But the problem here is not “your body” but the body of the distinct, living, innocent individual residing inside. And let me ask you this question:
If a woman who gets pregnant, then later sees an ultra sound and learns that the baby is not the boy she was imagining, but a girl instead, do you support her “choice” to have that pregnancy terminated (as is happening so often these days)?
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Regarding fetal pain. It is not a myth. The dispute within the medical community is not whether it exists or not. It clearly does!!!! The question is at what age of gestation does this occur?
Surely you will admit that a new born baby can feel pain. And would you also not admit that minutes before that new born entered the birth canal, nothing anatomically significant occurred which all of a sudden magically inserted the ability of that baby to feel pain? Logically, then, unborn children, at least moments before birth, have the capacity to experience the same kind of pain as a newborn child. Yet in Canada today there are no laws protecting these full gestation babies from being aborted, even though it is clear to all, that they are capable of feeling pain. Many advocates of abortion want the same for the USA. To them, abortion rights trump everything, even when it causes serious pain for a child.
The debate in the scientific community then, is not whether unborn children can feel pain, because obviously some can and do.
Most of the “scientific evidence” which supposedly refutes the fact that unborn children in the earlier stages of gestation can feel pain was produced in a 2005 JAMA “study” that purported to find that a 20-week preborn baby cannot feel pain. Yet this study, which is widely quoted by abortion advocates and their media allies, has been thoroughly debunked. Even the New York Times (hardly a bastion of pro life thought) has acknowledged that there was a strong conflict of interest between the authors and publishers of the JAMA report, and the multi-billion dollar abortion industry.
Less than 2 years after the JAMA study was published, it was conclusively refuted by peer-reviewed medical journals.
The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) published studies which show that by seven weeks, pain “sensory receptors appear,” and spread to “all cutaneous [skin] and mucous surfaces” by 18 weeks.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198711193172105
A 2012 study published in the journal Fetal Diagnosis and Therapy titled, “Fetal and Maternal Analgesia/Anesthesia for Fetal Procedures,” showed that as early as 14 weeks, a preborn child demonstrates “a physiological fetal reaction to painful stimuli.”
https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/338146
The journal Anesthesiology even noted that as early as 18 weeks, the preborn “elaborates pituitary-adrenal, sympatho-adrenal, and circulatory stress responses to physical insults.”
http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=1944707
Click to access EF15A104.pdf
While some of these scientific studies took pains to avoid making the obvious connection between their findings and its logical implications for the abortion industry (likely due to fears of crossing a politically correct line and losing future research grants), we can certainly infer with reasonable probability from their findings that the unborn child, at gestational ages when it is fully legal for their lives to be terminated, can feel pain.
I can assure you that when I affirm that unborn children can feel pain, I am not bearing false witness. It is, on the other hand, the mega abortion industry, whose livelihood depends on their ability to continue to commit abortions, which is producing the false witness reports.
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The best response I’ve seen to all the so-called Christian call to hate and discriminate, and support a sinner as appointed by God. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
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Yes! I completely agree. Thanks for saying this. You (we) may very well get some push-back comments (I certainly did when I commented positively to Peter) but I just want to say I’m with you.
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Judy. It might interest you to know that Samaritan’s Purse is already on the ground in Houston and surrounding areas providing life saving essential relief to victims of the recent hurricane. Similarly, this summer, when forest fires raged through British Columbia (where I am right now), Samaritan’s Purse was there to help all of us who had to be evacuated. This organization led by Rev Graham and the Salvation Army were the only non government agencies offering any help to us. (With the exception of the Red Cross which was acting on behalf of the provincial government, using government funding).
I had to shake my head in amazement that so-called Christians in North America are so quick to falsely condemn this man (Rev Franklin Graham) and his organization when he and his group are about the only ones who actually ARE putting feet and action to their beliefs; doing what God commands us to do in Matthew 25. I wondered where were all the liberal theologians and their followers (who are so quick to cast stones at these men and women of God with Samaritan’s Purse), during these times of real crisis? They certainly were nowhere to be found among the hurting and displaced!
When we all face eternity, I suspect the opinion of those who have been helped during these kinds of crisis — from Houston, to BC, to Indonesia to South Sudan and hundreds of locations more — will be more important to God than those of arm chair theologians whose feathers get ruffled when a man of God preaches the true Word of God!
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Oh good grief, Mel – I’ll just confine myself to your last reference, to “the true word of God,” and say that in my humble opinion those who believe they know the mind of God are dangerous. A little humility might go a long way toward brotherhood.
And I’m done. I don’t like discussing things with people who believe they have the only answer.
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Judy. On some issues the Word of God is clear.
You have not addressed the theological issues or given any exegetical input on why you think Rev Graham’s (or my) interpretation of Scriptures is wrong. You’ve simply supported the false allegations against Rev Graham which the letter asserts. If your arguments against why Rev Graham is wrong were based on an explanation of how his interpretation of the Bible is inaccurate, that would be one thing. But that has not been the case. Instead a straw man has been set up, false accusations hurled, and the result has been further division and hatred against a brother in Christ and his organization which is doing great work around the world.
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First of all, Rev Graham is not preaching hate against anyone. To say that he is is simply to create a straw man.
Second, if slandering Rev Grahams (as the hatchet job by “Rev” Peter does by insinuating that he does not care about the “least of these” who are mentioned in Matthew 25) is the “best response” that you have seen to date, the you have certainly lost the moral debate.
To make false accusations against a fellow believer is slander. It is bearing false witness. These are condemned in the Word of God.
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Except that the non-Reverend Graham IS preaching hate against anyone who is not Christian OR who does not conform to the demands of that abusive bully that you call a god. He preaches hate against Muslims. He preaches hate against Atheists. He preaches hate against gays, lesbians, transpeople, and anyone else whose belief system and life doesn’t meet his Pharisaical standard.
In other words, Mel, he is (like you and all the other Graham-defenders here) pretty much a shining example of American-style Christianity, where “love the sinner but hate the sin” is code for “hate the sinner regardless of the sin–unless they’re our kind of Christian, in which case it’s all good.” So I’d just like to thank you for reminding me yet again why I ran screaming from the hateful and abusive belief system that is Christianity.
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Camille. Telling a teenager that smoking dope is wrong does not imply that you hate that teenager. In fact if you tolerate what he/she is doing, that would NOT be showing true love.
Grahams is preaching the true Word of God by calling sin by its true name. I know you don’t like that. But God has not called us to love evil. And yes, we are to love the sinner (which includes all of us, and is what Franklin Graham is doing all over the world) while helping to warn them and deliver them from the sins which they are committing.
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Yeahnosorry Mel, no. You are creating a false equivalence with the pot-smoking teenager example; that’s bearing false witness, son.
Franklin Graham is a hatemonger who preaches hatred for those who aren’t cisgender, white, “Christian”, and heterosexual, and calls it “love”–and you and your fellow Christians do the exact same thing, and then cry “oppression!” when you’re called on it.
Thank you again for reminding me why I ran screaming from the hateful, murderous, and abusive relationship of a belief system that is Christianity.
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Camille, It is an accurate analogy.
And Rev Graham does not preach hatred, nor does he show it in his actions. He and his organization minister life saving assistance to everyone in need. He makes no distinction between their color, race, gender, sexual desires, or any other characteristics. He and his group understand that all humans are sinful, but all are created in the image of God, and hence have immeasurable intrinsic value.
By the way, the KKK was a political group, not a Christian one. It was started by Democrats who were furious at Republicans for taking away their right to own slaves. Even as recently as this past decade, there was at least one Democrat Senator who had been a member of the KKK — Senator Robert Byrd, who, by the way, was given accolades of praise by Hilary (who described him as one of her mentors) and Barack Obama! if you are upset with the KKK (and you should be) its not people like Rev Graham who you have to worry about.
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You should be ashamed Pete. May I call you, Pete? A pastor who loves the Lord with all his heart would never criticize one of his fellow followers of Christ in such a public way. This is no way to show the love of our Lord and Savior. The scripture plainly says that if you have problems with a brother confront him in private. Could your time not be better spent learning about Franklin., his beliefs, his family and his organization. God does place all leaders in their positions. He has s plan that our small finite minds will never grasp. Perhaps you should be on your knees, in your closet, praying with all your being for our world, our nation, and our President!
I’m a Lutheran but I am sincerely ashamed of the sarcastic, unJesus-like way you approached your concerns. So sad.
Carole Anderson
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Thank you for writing this. I firmly believe these same things. We should represent Jesus by treating people how Jesus did. Even WHEN they insult us. If we as Christians send away the sinners & the hurting and hostile just because they insulted our faith…. are we not sending them away just because they hurt our own feelings and pride? Further- if businesses quit serving sinners…. ALL businesses would be empty. God knows our hearts and also the heart of the suffering. He guides the willing to assist in helping others. We have to swallow pride and BE like Jesus.
I also believe that God placed the Presidents in order to usher in what His Word says needs to happen. He is sorting those of us who say that we FOLLOW Him–
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xactlydeb, The issue here is about “what”, not about “who. The bakers in question had served these same clients previously, even though they were aware that they were homosexuals. So there was no discriminating against any group of people. It is what these client were requesting which was prompted the refusal. It would have violated their sincere belief in the sanctity of marriage. It was not who they were, but what they wanted. There is a world of difference.
It would the same as if a baker,(from any religion), who had previously served a particular client on a number of occasions, was suddenly asked by that same client to make a cake celebrating the Ashley Madison company success in promoting adultery in America. Would that baker not have the right to refuse?
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Thank you Mel- I will have to google just what it was they wanted.
My comment is kind of general concerning each of the points mentioned in the original blog. I wrote it due to having just seen a Pastor from an Oklahoma church that seems to be falling apart- at least temporarily. Strange when you see representatives become militant.
I would like your opinion on the following.
I was asked to ask my pastor if he is willing to do an “Adams Family” theme wedding on Halloween. So I did ask him and gave the brides information for contact. He is in discussion with the couple about this.
Part of me thinks… “Meet the people where they are” – but they want to decorate the sanctuary IN goth.
What do you think?
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xactlydeb. Thanks! That’s an interesting scenario. Its been years since I’ve seen the Adams family. My initial reaction would be to “avoid all appearance of evil”, and, from what little I know about goth my impression is that it seems to thrive on appearing evil and dark. But without knowing more about what is involved, I wouldn’t want to make a categorical decision one way or the other at this point. There might be a way to work around that, although I confess at this point I don’t know what that would entail.
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Thanks for your reply and assist with this scenario.
Fortunately, He is a wise Pastor. He is more concerned about the couples commitment to God and to each other than the theme- He counseled the bride by phone about the Christian marriage ceremony wording and intent (c: He told her he requires at least 3 counseling sessions prior to agreeing that they should pursue marriage. He is pretty sure he will know after 1 session if the couple is truly desiring Christian vows. As for the theme— she then told him about the decorating the sanctuary part- originally she just said they would dress the part. He told her that if she wants to have that theme- it should be saved for her reception, that he will not be allowing the sanctuary to be made over- for the same reason you stated.
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Thanks again xactlydeb. I agree, the pastor you are describing seems to be exercising Godly wisdom. Would love to know how the wedding and reception ceremonies pan out. Feel free to contact me at mjmiddleton@hotmail.com for that and any other questions or concerns that might not relate directly to the topic in this blog. God bless you.
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Thank you Mel (c:
Have a very blessed day.
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Rev Peter,
If a believer and follower of Christ chooses not to obey a law of man that violates his conscience and biblical convictions then he has every right too. Should the government say that every Christian has to give up their bibles, would you obey the government or disobey? Scripture gives us the freedom to obey God rather than man when it man’s laws conflict with God’s laws. Whom do you follow, God or the government?
Yes it is persecution when someone loses their business because they are following the Word of God and not man. Let me ask, should a Jewish photographer be sued for refusing to shoot a wedding on a Saturday which is their Sabbath or a Muslim caterer be sued for refusing to cater a wedding or party where the customers are requiring sandwiches to have ham on them?
I don’t know about you, but I choose to obey God rather than man!
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Well said Bob! Thanks!
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“Let me ask, should a Jewish photographer be sued for refusing to shoot a wedding on a Saturday which is their Sabbath or a Muslim caterer be sued for refusing to cater a wedding or party where the customers are requiring sandwiches to have ham on them?”
Your examples really don’t work here. A Jewish photographer would not shoot a wedding on Saturday for anybody; a Muslim caterer would not provide ham for anybody. The Jewish photographer and the Muslim caterer are not making decisions based on their evaluation of the bride and groom’s situation; they are making decisions that apply to every single customer. So if a baker did not make wedding cakes for anybody, that could be part of their policy. But to refuse to make a cake for one particular couple? No – they do not have that right.
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Judy. Bob is correct.
The couple who were denied the cake had previously been served by the same bakers. They were not being discriminating against because they were homosexuals. The bakers were refusing to participate in something which violates their conscience. Its not “who” but “what”. That makes all the difference in the world.
This applies even with your own reasoning. The bakers would have refused the same request had it come from anyone. If the heterosexual parents of the homosexual “couple” (or anyone else) had asked for the same cake to be made — for an event which violated their sincere religious beliefs on the sanctity of marriage (beliefs which the orthodox Christian church has held for 2000 years), then they too would have been similarly denied. So the baker’s decision would have applied to every customer, not just the homosexual couple.
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Sorry. Mel – you just proved my point. It’s the characteristics of the recipient that are determining their decision and that’s discrimination.
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Judy….actually that is not true. It is not the characteristics of the people being served that was determining the decision. If that were the case, the same homosexual couple would have been denied service previously, which was not the case. The homosexual couple were apparently regular customers. It was because of what they asked for, not who they were, which prompted the denial of service.
If Christian business people denied service to sinners, there would be no business service at all because everyone is a sinner. But there is a huge difference between serving sinners, and participating in sin.
It is analogous to Shadrah, Meshach and Abednigo, who faithfully served the Emperor, King Nebuchadnezzar, even though he was an evil tyrant — certainly a prime example of a sinner. Yet when that Emperor demanded that everyone bow down to the Golden image, they refused. They could not provide that particular service to the Emperor because that that would have meant actually partaking in the sin which the Emperor was demanding. Similarly, for the bakers to bake a cake for a so-called “homosexual marriage” would have been to violate the sanctity of marriage according to their firmly held Christian beliefs. That would have been “bowing to the golden image”!
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He who is without sin, cast the first stone!!! I guess you think your without sin, because you are throwing all kind is stones! Only JESUS WAS WITHOUT SIN!!! Your condasending tone gives you away! If you really cared about what he said!! You would not communicate like that or even in this forum!!! Your are a fake LIB that is GRANDSTANDING because you seem to be jealous!!! What does the BIBLE SAY ABOUT COVETING??? How many of the COMMANDMENTS have you broke!!! REALLY!!! You better look at your self before you start talking about others!!!!! By the way, frank was. Really. Talking about RELIGOUS FREEDOM even for people like you to go on that redicuulious diatribe so you could have the opportunity to embarrass your self!!! I’d say he was looking out for your best interest!!! I do not know what JESUS THAT YOU KNOW!!! Do YOU!!! Grace through Faith!!! Always, DAVID👍😊
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How dare you talk down to Franklin Graham! He and his organization are about feeding and helping the needy here and
All around the world. You are very condescending and seem to think that you are the only one who knows the Bible! Shame on YOU! OUR GOD Is NOT SMILING! 🙏🏻❤️👆🏻
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Open your eyes and ears Margaret.
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Thank you so much pastor Peter from a small church! Finally, a man of God addresses the true meaning of a Christian! I’ve want so much to put what you have wrote to Franklin in words but I could have never have said this as well as you have! Signed, patty, who grew up in a small church the size of yours. May God bless you and your church! Thank you again!!!
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Patricia. True Christianity is about speaking the truth. The letter from this supposedly small town pastor creates a false picture of Rev Franklin Graham by what it implies. This is the classic “straw man” approach to psychological manipulation. It might be effective in a political sense, and in your case, apparently convincing. But it is, nevertheless, “bearing false witness”, and NOT true Christianity.
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Oh Mel – remember the story about the six blind men describing an elephant? Each spoke the truth – as he could ‘see’ it. It’s important to remember that none of us have a corner on the truth – not even you and Franklin. Peter is speaking the truth as he sees it, and I’m betting he’s probably got some of the truth going on there.
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Judy. I do know that story and it is a very good one. In this case, though, I’m not sure who or what the “elephant” is in your thinking. If it is Christian teaching in general, then your message should be directed at Pastor Peter. He is the one who has fired the cheap shots at Rev Graham: (or, to use your analogy, is the blind man who has condemned another blind man publicly for not “seeing things” his way).
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The elephant, Mel, is a metaphor for any situation in which two people are both convinced that *they* have the one and only answer.
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Judy, that analogy applies in instances where there may be legitimate differences of opinion about matters that are up for debate. But there are issues where the facts are plain. There is such a thing as objective truth. Not all opinions are of equal validity on all matters.
For example, the man who makes a statement alluding to “all 57 states of the United States” is not on the same par as someone who gives the correct number. Both might be fully convinced in their own mind that they are right. But one is clearly wrong and the other right.
In the case of the letter from Pastor Peter, his implied accusations against Rev Graham — specifically that he has not read Matthew 25 and is not aware of its teachings — (or more importantly, that there is something in that passage which would prove Rev Graham’s approach to be unBiblical) is on a par with the “57 states of the United States”. The question is whether or not he presented such a false representation unwittingly or did so deliberately.
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I really don’t think your 57 states applies here, Mel. That’s an easy one to disprove. I think there are a lot of times (and they’re happening on this discussion) when there is an honest difference of opinion, and I think we have to agree to differ.
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Judy. Not every issue in this blog falls into the “agree to disagree” category, since there are issues discussed on this blog which do fall into the “57 states” category (especially the content and meaning of the Matthew 25 passage of Scripture).
But this might surprise you, I do agree with you.You are correct that there are other issues which should be in the “agree to disagree” category.
And that is what should have been the attitude from the beginning. If the homosexual couple who launched the law suit had adopted the “agree to disagree” mentality, there would have been no issue. If the courts, the media, and all involved had done the same thing, there would have been no problem. If Pastor Peter had adopted this same attitude, then he would not have launched such a snarky, and demeaning attack on a fellow believer in Christ.
But that is the problem these days. Those who are pushing for homosexual marriages do not have an “agree to disagree” approach. They are demanding that everyone conform to their view of what they think is right and wrong. And those who refuse to accept what they dictate are being legally penalized, ostracized and demonized ( as pastor Peter’s letter aptly demonstrates).
It should not be that way. We should all live in peace, and not force people to accept ideas and concepts which violate their sacred beliefs. To “agree to disagree” has always been the liberal democratic way. But that is no longer the case. And that is why all men and women of good will must stand firmly against it.
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Ah Mel – it always comes back to this, doesn’t it. In the 50s, it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry. What that meant was that black people did not have equal rights with white people. It was justified by the Bible. Eventually, most people (certainly not all) accepted that this was inappropriate and not fair.
The same applies to gay marriage in my opinion. If the baker doesn’t approve of gay marriage, the baker is free not to marry a person of the same gender. But the two guys across the street from me should have the right to marry, with all the privileges and responsibilities that that entails.
We can agree to differ on this one, but I will never agree to limit one person’s rights.
We do not use biblical medical treatments anymore; we have moved on from that. We have learned from science and we have learned from other sources. I believe that this falls in the same category. So, Mel, feel free not to marry a man, but don’t limit someone else’s rights if they are in a loving relationship.
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Judy. Your argument fails on two points.
First, there is no Biblical justification for denying inter racial marriage. The wife of Moses himself was Ethiopian. The entire Song of Solomon is a love song featuring a beloved girl who is black. Those who were using the Bible to oppose inter racial marriages were simply taking verses out of context and using their own eisegesis…very much the same way those who are promoting homosexual “marriages” are doing today. On some issues, the Bible is very clear. Christ’s definition of sacred marriage, which is the same as that given in the earliest portions of the Eden story from the book of Genesis, is not ambiguous. That definition — one man and one woman becoming one — includes inter racial marriage. It does not include homosexual “marriage”.
Second, the bakers were not preventing the homosexual couple from getting “married”. They were simply refusing to participate in it. You are saying that these bakers had no right to refuse to participate in something which they considered (based on 2000 years of orthodox Christian teaching, and the earliest chapters in the Bible) to be a desecration of that which is sacred. For some reason, you fail to apply your own “agree to disagree” approach here! These bakers are faced with what can only be described as fascistic and ruinous legal penalties….and you appear to support that! That is an obvious double standard in your “agree to disagree” belief.
In many of the countries where I have worked, polygamy is legal. I have many friends who have more than one wife. I have often been invited to attend or participate in some way in some of these “marriages”. I have always declined, based on my view that such marriages violate Christ’s standard for marriage. Yet never have there been any negative repercussions for my refusals to participate. Those involved have always simply done as you suggested we should do earlier; they “agreed to disagree”. We have remained amicable friend, even though we disagree! Why can it not be the same in this case today?
And regardless of what the law states, or what you may or may not believe, there is no way that any homosexual “marriage” will ever be equal to any marriage based on the definition of Christ; especially if you factor in the issue of children. Every child deserves a father AND a mother. The “two become one” factor in Christian marriage procreates a new generation. The very river of life flows through it. You are a result of that “two becoming one”, and that can never occur with any homosexual union. There is therefore no way that they can ever be “equal” regardless of what the courts dictate.
For sure we can agree to disagree with this. It is (in theory at least), a free country. But neither you, nor pastor Peter, nor any judicial activist judges, have the right to force anyone else to accept your view. Stick to your own words. Don’t act as though you, and those who think like you, are the only ones who know the truth!
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All I am asking, Mel, is that your “truth” and my “truth” are given equal rights. It’s all I’m asking. Clearly, in your mind, this is not going to happen. You are convinced that you are right. There is no room in your mind for questioning – and you consider this a virtue.
We aren’t going to change each other’s minds here, Mel. I’m done.
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Judy…..do you not see that this is precisely what we are also wanting….that the views of those on my side — what you describe as “my truth” — be given equal rights with your “truth”. What you are failing to understand is that this is exactly what is NOT happening! Those who share “my truth” are now receiving draconian legal penalties, and even being sent to jail! And those who stand up for them are being condemned and falsely maligned in forums such as this!
We can agree to disagree. But we should not agree that one side of the debate be silenced through oppressive and vindictive political force! Nor should they become victims of false accusations and slander!
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You are not being required to marry a gay person. If you are in business you have no more right to refuse to serve a gay person than to refuse to serve an African-American. If it’s legal, you’re obligated. I have no right to refuse to serve you either. If I have a restaurant and you want to hold a rally to protest something I don’t like, I do not have the right to refuse you. That’s what being in business means.
If I don’t like that, my choices are to suck it up and serve, or to pay the penalty. The people who want my restaurant have rights.
I might very well refuse to serve a neo -Nazi group, but if I made that choice, I would expect the law to come after me. And I would pay the penalty because it is a result of my choice.
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No Judy, we have already debunked that comparison. It is not about who is being served. It is about “WHAT” was being requested. The homosexual couple had been served previously. It was not about them. It was about what the cake was going to be used for. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego served the wicked and evil emperor faithfully. But when he required them to participate in evil — bowing down to his golden image — they refused; and rightly so.
You’re assertion: “if its legal, you are obligated”, simply does not wash. That would mean that a Muslim baker would be required to bake a cake for a party in celebration of burning the Koran. Burning the Koran is legal in America.
It is also legal to commit adultery and to promote it. Your “if its legal your are obligated” would require you (if you were a baker) to bake a cake for a party celebrating the success of Ashley-Madison’s promotion of adultery across America! Would you do that?
It would also require a first nations engineer to build a road or drill an oil well in his sacred burial grounds if his contractor had managed to get the appropriate legal permits.
To abide by “if its legal you are obligated” rule will (and already is) destroying the freedoms that we have all cherished and have made America great.
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No, Mel, we have not debunked that comparison. And I’m So tired of this. You are convinced you have the One Right Answer for everything and I’m not buying it.
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And you don’ have to agree with me. I’m not asking you to. I’m only asking you not to support the vindictive and oppressive legal action being levied against people who have a different opinion than you do. If you truly believed that we should “agree to. disagree”, then you would have no problem with that
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I only support action against people who do not follow the law.
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Well congratulations Judy. You would have agreed with those who condemned Shadrah, Meshach and Abednego to the fiery furnace! They were in defiance of the law of the land. You would have agreed with those who informed on Christians like the family of Corrie Ten Boom, who hid Jews in their homes during the holocaust, because to do so was against the law.
In America today, much that passes for “law” is simply rulings from activist judges who wield unaccountable judicial power. But such rulings are actually unconstitutional. Because only Congress has the legal authority to enact laws. Courts do not. So the very legality of much of what happens these days is suspect; even downright illegal!
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I am actually a member of the resistance – I actively engage in protest where I think that’s appropriate. And if I think a law is unjust, I will both protest and do all I can to get it changed. But I recognize and accept the authority that the law has over me, and if I engage in illegal actions, I accept that there may be consequences. Anything else, in my view, is anarchy.
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Judy. You are clearly doing what you condemn in others. You are acting as though you, and you alone, hold the “truth”.. So its ok for you to break a law that you want to.. But it is not ok for anyone else to act in accordance with their own consciences.
“Good for the goose, but not good for the gander”. Its called hypocrisy!
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No I’m not, Mel – I am willing to take the consequences – without complaint. Do what your conscience tells you, but don’t expect to be above the law.
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That’s all very well Judy. But that is exactly what the bakers in this case were doing. They were listening to their consciences. So why are you supporting those who condemn them for doing this? And why are you dissing those who are standing up for the right of these bakers to listen to their consciences?
As for the law in this case, the proverbial jury is still out. The matter is before the Supreme Court. There is no law declared by Congress that anyone must lay aside their deeply held religious convictions in order to carry out any business, or provide any service. The law in this case right now appears to be a “free for all”, based more, it would appear, on the personal opinions of activist judges rather than any legislation.
And if it were to become legitimate law, that would be a sad day for America. Doctors who believe in the sanctity of all human life would be forced to perform abortions; Muslim bakers would be forced to bake cakes for parties celebrating the desecration of their Koran, first nations technicians would be forced to drill oil on their sacred burial grounds; and people like you might even be forced to participate in an Ashley Madison party celebrating adultery.
Freedom is a precious commodity. Freedom of religion is a major factor in what has made America the greatest and most powerful nation on earth. Once freedom is lost though,it is almost impossible to recover. And I have witnessed first hand the dreadful results that take place when that happens. It is easy to tear down, destroy and disseminate hatred. It is far more difficult, yet absolutely essential, to be able to amicably agree to disagree with one’s political opponents without resorting to so-called “resistance” or to use the bully club of judicial force to silence and destroy those who don’t view the world the same way you do.
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One of my favorite phrases: what is legal is not always ethical and what is ethical is not always legal. Following the law only does not serve any g-d I am aware of.
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Well, I see Mel is still trying to silence women.
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LOL!!! But I’m sure he can back it up scripturally!!
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The Bible promotes freedom. Why would I try to silence anyone? Unless you mean that refuting someone’s argument is “silencing” someone. At any rate, the “truth shall set you free”.
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Camille. I’m not the one trying to shut down discussion…..of anyone, male or female. That is the tactic of the Left. Just after your post, I received notice of one of our pro life friends — a 15 year old girl — who was attacked and kicked (she’s in the hospital now recovering) because she was standing up for the right to life of unborn children. I, along with people like Rev Franklin Graham, firmly support freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I have told you that before.
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Dear Peter,
This is very helpful to me. I’m trying so hard to understand why most of my Christian friends and family support trump. Many have said that since Franklin endorses him, that should matter a great deal.
The way I was raised, was to love all people. Have compassion for all people. Try my hardest to do what Jesus would do in these situations. I am far from perfect but I agree that baking a cake for this couple would show far more compassion than refusal.
Can you imagine if this sort of “persecution” was as bad as it ever got? Whatever wonderful world this would be.
The home that I was raised in, the church I was brought up, the strong youth group… These are the people who taught me love and morals and compassion… But many of these same people support trump. It’s so frustrating for me.
I am interested in hearing about your thoughts at this point now that it’s been five months since this letter. If this is still completely accurate on your understandings of the teachings of the Bible as a relates to current events.
I would love to follow you on Twitter or Facebook. But I’m not sure if you’re supposed to be anonymous.
God bless you. You’ve helped many of us who are struggling with these issues.
Brenda
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Thanks for your kind words and no I am not anonymous. My full name is Peter Olsen and it is my privilege to serve Trinity Lutheran Church in Bogota, New Jersey. You can follow me on this blog at revolsen.com. Peace be with you.
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Oh cool! A blog to follow! Thank you.
I have been following the commentary on this post for months and I think the conversations you have started are great. Well, not all of them, but many. I too appreciate your words and I am grateful for you. Will go sign up for your blog.
I grew up in NJ but don’t know Bogota – off to the map.
Judy
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Brenda. You stated:
“I agree that baking a cake for this couple would show far more compassion than refusal.”
To those who take the Word of God seriously — as it would appear your colleagues who “taught you love and morals and compassion” in your youth group docv– marriage, as defined by Jesus Christ, is a SACRED institution. It is so sacred, in fact, that Christ likens His relationship with the Church to that of a marriage, with the Church being the Bride of Christ and Jesus Himself being the Bridegroom.. And since it is a SACRED institution (which is why it is called Holy Matrimony), it should not be altered by any human court of law, or any legislation. To do so is a defilement of that which is Sacred!
Similarly, in the days when Jesus walked on earth, the Temple was sacred to the Jewish people. It was regarded as the place where God Himself met with His people. Yet money changers were defiling that “House of Prayer” and making it into a “den of thieves”, (as Christ described it). Their actions were defiling the Sacred.
Using your approach quoted above, one would have to conclude that it would have been more “loving” for Jesus Christ to allow the moneychangers to go about their illicit business on the Temple grounds. Instead, however, He overturned their tables and drove the culprits out of that sacred area!
No doubt there would be some who have commented on this blog who would have found Christ’s actions to be very intolerant and unloving in that situation. But that is because so many do not appreciate how God regards that which is sacred. To acquiesce to, or participate in, the defilement of what God has deemed to be sacred is a serious thing. No one who truly loves God or his neighbor will knowingly participate in that kind of desecration.
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First, standing before Jesus judgement will be a child of his or not, if not condemnation to hell is what one will hear. Doesn’t matter how much good or evil one has done if you failed to accept His free gift of salvation. Being good will not get you there although those actions will be a reflection of your repentance and acceptance. The Bible also teaches an acceptance of sin is a party to that sin, and no that does not neglect Jesus instruction to love all. You can love the person but not accept theit sin.
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Excellent! Frank and everyone else who believe that a building is the church our LORD died for and will return for is sadly in denial. The church is in our heart which makes us the church. Hate is hate regardless of the mouth it is spewed out of!
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Janice. You are right that the church is not a building. The church is the “community of believers”. It is the “ecclesia’,(those who are part of the community which has been “called out” of the world and separated from it), which will become the “bride” of Christ during the “marriage feast of the Lamb”. It is never hatred to proclaim the good news that Jesus died for our sins or to herald the salvation which that brings to those who repent. That is the message which Rev Graham, and his father, Rev Billy Graham, have been preaching faithfully for years, and demonstrating through their loving actions to the poor and needy around the world. And, as the Word of God clearly says: “Unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3) .
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Thank you thank you thank you !! Praise god for the small churches ⛪ gods word is alive and stronger than ever thanks to men like you pastor ! Frank may be saved but lots of Christians apparently living flesh filled lives ! To suffer is to live as Christ Jesus lived and died I pray to die to flesh and live in spirit to love forever allow his grace the be given away as I was given !! You made my day I’ve been suffering conflicted because I was in such disbelief, you have given me more hope in the church ⛪ f Jesus followers
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Pastor. Your snarky comments and arrogance really took away from your message. You have some valid points but you crawled down into the muck and the mire with the world when you decided to communicate in worldly sarcasm rather than stick with God’s Word.
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After reading a few dozen responses to this “pastor’s” very rude & condescending letter, I will condense my response to a few words. In the end (aka Judgement Day), the only thing that decides if someone goes to heaven or is destined to spend eternity in Hell (a real place) depends on whether the individual has trusted Jesus as Savior. Doing good works (as suggested by those who teach the “social gospel”) will not earn anyone eternal life in heaven. Those who teach otherwise are failing their duty as pastors.
God provided ONLY ONE WAY for us to spend eternity with Him—& that is by accepting Jesus’s sacrificial death for the penalty of sin. “For all have sinned & come short of the glory of God.” Christians are not perfect, & most do not claim to be. The difference is that we are FORGIVEN, not only for our past sins & shortcomings, but for future sins. That doesn’t mean Christians have a license to sin, & we should still ask forgiveness every day for failing to live our best—both from God & from those we may have hurt by word or deed. And finally, no human is able to judge whether or not someone else is a Christian—-only God knows the heart.
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Only God knows the heart and yet you call this “pastor” (your quotes, not mine) rude and condescending? Interesting juxtaposition there, PJ.
And I would love to know how you justify more than half the population of the earth being consigned to hell – you know, all those Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc. I bet God has a more loving and inclusive answer to that one than you do.
And one question that has always troubled me – if one calls oneself a Chrustisn and truly believes that all the Muslims, Buddists, Jews, etc, are truly consigned to hell unless they believe the Gospel, then why isn’t that one a missionary over where all those people live? For how can they believe if they have not heard? And how can they hear unless one goes?
Just wondering –
Jydy
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Judy. Going to countries where there are Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc to preach the Gospel is exactly what Rev Franklin Graham is doing. Not only does he and his organizations preach the gospel in those lands (wherever they are permitted to do so by the authorities), but he also brings life saving medical and food aid assistance. Its good to see that you are in full agreement with Rev Franklin Graham on the need to preach the Good News of salvation to everyone, regardless of their religion, race, or social standing
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Don’t put words in my mouth, Mel. I’m not in favor of Franklyn going anywhere. I believe God loves the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc, as much as God loves you. And I think God’s got them covered. There are now too many comments on this whole thread, so I can’t find my original comment; but I believe my point was that if YOU believe that all those people need Jesus, then what the heck are you doing sitting at home? Put your money (figuratively speaking) where your mouth is. Get out there and bring them to Jesus.
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Judy. Not putting words in your mouth. I’m merely basing my comment on what you yourself said, which was: ” if one calls oneself a Chrustisn (I assume you meant to say Christian) and truly believes that all the Muslims, Buddists, Jews, etc, are truly consigned to hell unless they believe the Gospel, then why isn’t that one a missionary over where all those people live? For how can they believe if they have not heard? And how can they hear unless one goes?”. And I was happy to inform you that going to these places and preaching the Gospel is exactly what Rev Franklin Graham and his organizations (BGEA and Samaritan’s Purse) are doing. As for what I, myself do. I’m afraid you do assume too much.
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And of course you are correct, Mel. What I intended to say, except that my fingers got ahead of my head, was
If you are the conservative type of Christian who believes that no one but Jesus followers will go to heaven, then it has always seemed to me you belong on the mission field. There are a lot of people preaching to the unsaved on this side of the Atlantic,
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Br. Peter thank you you could not have said it any better. I am a fan of Billy Graham as a child growing up in rural Jamaica our Sunday mornings would begin with the HOUR OF DECISION and as someone who grew up and accepted Jesus Christ as my personal saviour, I am embarrassed to see who is leading the BGEA this guy is a far from the truth as the east is from the west. The BGEA deserves better
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The late Rev Billy Graham, who you appear to admire, has made it very clear that he fully endorses the work of his son, Rev Franklin Graham, both in his work with the BGEA as well as with Samaritan’s Purse.
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Dear Peter –
I wonder if, when you wrote this, you had any idea of the nerves you were touching! Nice job!
If I lived anywhere near Bogota, New Jersey, I would come and see you some Sunday. I bet I would really get a lot out of your sermon.
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Actually, Judy, I had no idea how far this article would go. I write weekly to a small audience of about 200 people who, like me, are interested in discussing the appointed scripture readings for each coming Sunday. Some are pastors and colleagues, some are members of my congregation and some are family. Occasionally I will write a topical piece like this one. Often they are shared. Sometimes they are re-printed. But nothing before or since has gone viral to this extent. It’s quite an experience waking up and finding your in box filled with over two thousand e-mails! I had no clue that I was writing for a worldwide audience of millions (and if I had I might have expressed myself a little differently). But I am thankful that a lot of folks are finding out that the kind of Christianity espoused by Rev. Graham and preachers like him is not the only one. Too often, the term “Christianity” is narrowly associated in the media with a judgmental and intolerant strain of evangelicalism that is more at home in the halls of congress and the White House than in the streets.
Anyway,
Thanks for your vote of confidence and blessings!
Peter
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You said,
“But I am thankful that a lot of folks are finding out that the kind of Christianity espoused by Rev. Graham and preachers like him is not the only one. ”
Yes!!! Yesyesyes!!! I was raised in a conservative evangelical church, and I am so grateful whenever I encounter preachers like you! Fortunately my own pastor is of like mind – well, if he weren’t, I suppose I wouldn’t be going there 🙂
Thank you, Peter –
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Revolsen. So let me get this straight. In order to demonstrate your moral high ground of being non judgmental, you write an open public letter which is highly judgmental of (not to mention makes false accusations against) a fellow servant of Christ?
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Peter, I am attempting to work my way through many of the comments here, and am totally lost! However, I must say thank you for your thoughtful letter to Franklin Graham. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Peace!
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Yes keep praying as each of us are a work in progress. Our yesterday’s may not always line up perfectly with the Bible but perfect God is always changing His Children from the inside out. It’s a good thing His expertise is cleaning up the big messes and finding also the dust settling in the corners of our life’s.
As our Father God lovingly shepherds us, then our life’s can line up with the Holy word of God, the Bible.
Quotes and old sins of ours get put on the sea of forgetfulness by our loving God as we strive to follow Him who reminds us to do unto others as we would have them do unto ourself.
It’s shameful to pick at the speck in someone else’s eye when a plank is in our own. Such ugliness can hide out and blind so do keep praying. Amongst good in this blog, your plank is showing.
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Dear Peter,
I am very grateful to find your letter to this son of Billy Graham. I found out he was coming to my hometown of Berkeley, Ca. Due to the posted signs lined up at the homeless rv camp I accidentally started a year ago. The accident was letting the marina rat population tear my rv to shreds and make it unmovable. I couldnt stop them because my 5 year old child and I had pneumonia. We got stuck other rvs came and next thing you know there is 70 rvs with families and disabled and elderly. Now Franklin Graham wants to use the marina park for 1/2 an hour on June 1st at 7pm. Berkeley has posted notices for us to get out of town starting may 28th and before the 1st of June. They claim construction. I checked. No construction. Just a convention for worksalesforce and Franklin Graham. So Franklin and major business conventions don’t want to see homeless sick families or old people. And Berkeley, Ca. Is willing to make that happen.
I don’t know if anyone can help us. But I know God has been known to stop the bad guys every once in a while. I’m hospitalized right now. So this is what I can do. Ask you and yours to pray for me and mine. And if it comes down to it in the end don’t let them give us a paupers burial. My name is Leah Naomi Gonzales maiden name is Cuzner. I was born 02-05-1977 in Tucson, Az. Pima county. My child’s father is Paul Taj Schrager born at Alta Bates Hospital here in Berkeley, Ca on 12-09-1973. Our child is the most precious gift from God named Paul Theodore Schrager. He was also born at Alta Bates Hospital here in Berkeley, ca. His birthday is 09-23-2012. Otherwise known as the Day of Atonement. My child has known God since he was born. Not because he was taught about him. I was never allowed to speak about God. Maybe 5 times since his birth. But Theo knows him. Better than most human beings ever have. Ask him.
Pray for us all. 70 rvs. 15 or more vehicles. All filled with human lives. That Berkeley would rather drive over with steam rollers.
Thank you.
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You have my prayers, Leah. I am also forwarding your message to colleagues in Berkeley asking them whether they might be able to investigate and provide some assistance. God bless. Peter
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You ficking ass wipe
Learn the bible
Stop perverting the world
Get a real job
It says in the bible
Fair wage for fair days work
Bet you haven’t worked hard in your life
Get off your petistool wanker
Who are you ?
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I’m someone who knows how to spell. And thank you for proving my point by illustrating precisely the sort of religion Rev. Graham promotes.
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Revolsen. I can assure you that Rev Graham would never promote a religion or any activity which uses profane language (or bad spelling). There is nothing in Brett’s post that would confirm what religion he holds. Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc all are able to read the Bible and can see the discrepancy between what the Bible and you teach. It is quite possible that he/she/zhee is someone who has been helped by Rev Graham….perhaps an immigrant, or refugee, or someone else who is thankful for Rev Graham’s ministry (which does not discriminate in their assistance) and is upset by the false allegations he is getting on this site. Or….it is also possible that Brett is someone who hates Rev Graham and is trying to provide false evidence that his supporters are obtuse and uncouth. I have come across that sort of thing before several times. In Canada, even a high up official in our so-called human rights tribunals used to drive around in his car finding unsecured internet access, then posting hateful and demeaning posts on the web sites of those political opponents who he wanted to shut down. He would arrest and prosecute the owners of these web sites on the basis of posts that he himself had posted on them. Such “rhetorical” false flags are more common than you might think. At any rate, I’m surprised that you are still pushing this horse. The Supreme Court of the USA ruled in favor of the baker who was being persecuted by the State. The SCOTUS rebuked the state officials for having a bigoted and extremely anti-Christian approach. The bakers were vindicated! Rev Graham was absolutely correct to denounce this bigotry by the State.
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Why didn’t Frank contact Graham privately and prayerfully.
Graham has so much influence for Christ, would it not most help the cause of Christ to motivate Graham to a higher level of spiritual maturity.?
Maybe Graham should write an open letter about small church pastors who have the “I am just a housewife syndrome”.
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This letter had me at the beginning of his writings to Rev. Graham. However by the end I sensed a disrespect or resentment from the writer.
We have all sinned, I know I have. Any good is welcome, regardless of what religion or political views we have.
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You sound incensed, and you are being so indignant. I pray sincerely that we all realize that Jesus’ return isn’t to bring together but to separate. Cakes won’t matter, options won’t matter, itty bitty churches & mega churches w “100” praise & worship singers won’t matter… but – it’s what’s in our hearts that He sees that’ll matter, let us learn from this man that kinda is getting off on the fact that he’s from a small church, burying people, feeding people, etc… I do think mega churches do that. I’m kinda picking up on some fake humility from the small church Pastor. Gods Word says “…. tongues are for unbelievers & testimonies are for the believers…”. Praise The Lord & I hope His Return doesn’t catch any of us with such a bad taste in our mouth – also I remember God saying if we judge ourselves ….
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I am a man of few words, but I will cut to the chase. This man is not a man of God, and I want to clarify which God I server so there is no confusion among you, this man and his words are false, he serves his father well, he knows it and I know it, and most of you that support him are deceived the rest or willing.
I server the God of my fathers, the God of Abram, Issac and Jacob, the great I am that I am. He takes man’s law’s above God’s laws and is taking the Bible out of context, as many of you are. God sad in a much as you can obey them, but God’s laws are above man’s laws. If you participate by breaking God’s law’s to obey man’s you are WRONG and are in judgment of the law’s of God. Yahshua says, he did not come to change the law but to fulfill them. I will pray for all of you that are made like unto wise men by men, but becoming wise you become fools knowing nither right or wrong. To say that God’s word is not the only source of understanding I call him a lier, like unto his father, a murder from the beginning. Who says these kinds of word about the word of God and still claims he is a man of God?
(Bible, scripts)
“they are not the sole source of all knowledge, understanding and insight?”
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Thanks for your comments. Next time You might consider running your spellcheck before you post.
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In defense of Rev. Graham, a lot of intelligent and loving Christians were snowed by Donald Trump. The problem is now the truth has come out and many of them are still supporting the president. Donald Trump, by his own admission, states that he never asked Jesus for forgiveness because he never felt he did anything wrong—-and if he did he just tried to do better. How does that even remotely reflect what Jesus taught us? It doesn’t. Trump is NOT a Christian by any stretch of the imagination The evangelicals want him because he is pro-life (if he really is). That, too, would change if it didn’t serve his purposes.
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Yes, exactly. Thank you for putting it so well. I think you hit it – 45 says he is pro-life so they supported him. And of course all of us have trouble admitting it when we are mistaken.
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Judy. Why would you say Evangelicals are mistaken? Donald Trump has kept his promises with respect to supporting the right to life of all Americans. He has done more than any other President to back the pro life cause, and has done so despite the constant false accusations and demonization from the media. He has proved to the naysayers that he meant what he said. Abortion is now the leading cause of death both in America and worldwide. It is the greatest moral calamity of our age. As it was in the days of slavery when it was Evangelicals who led the campaign for abolition, it is evangelicals, hand in hand with Catholic laity and others who are front and center in the fight to protect innocent human life and stopping the violent shedding of innocent blood being carried out in our nations abortuaries. The Democrats, on the other hand, have shown that they do not respect the right to life and are now even blocking measures which would provide legal support to care for infants already born who have survived attempts on their lives through abortion. How can any thinking person support such infanticide? It flies in the face of the most fundamental human right of all….a right which is enshrined not only in Scriptures, but in the United States Declaration of Independence — the inalienalbe RIGHT TO LIFE! Evangelicals who voted for Trump were not mistaken, they have been clearly vindicated!
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Hi Mel – I figured you’d be back in this discussion. I think character counts. I think electing a man of poor character is a Faustian bargain and cannot end well. I think anyone who makes a deal with the devil or his ilk is making a mistake. You know I think this, just as I know you don’t Don’t be disingenuous, Mel.
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I would agree with you that character counts. That, of course, is why most Evangelicals, could NEVER vote for the alternative. Beside HRC, DT looks like a paragon of virtue. Just ask Cathy O’Brien, or any of Bill Clinton’s female victims, or the relatives of a million Rwandese who were killed in the preventable genocide, facilitated by the policies of the Clintons during their time in the White House. . But what is even more interesting than the suddenly acquired view by the Left that “character is important”, is the fact that so many of those who hate Trump, dislike Mike Pence even more! He, of course, has none of the sexual infidelity warts that Trump has, yet they hate him even more! Which leads me to conclude that for the new Left, this is not really about character, it is about the issue of the right to life of America’s most precious and most vulnerable victims — those who are truly (in the words of Jesus in Matthew 25) the “least of these”.
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HILLARY IS NOT BILL. HILLARY HAS NEVER BEEN PRESIDENT. I get so tired of people slandering her with Bill’s misdoings.
Further, you will never eliminate abortion. All you will eliminate – if you prevail – is safe, legal abortion. It would be far more productive to put our energy into contraception and health education and health care.
As for Pence, his unloving treatment of gay people and his unwillingness to see women as equals completely turn me off. That’s character, Mel. In my opinion Pete Buttigieg is a far more Christian human being than Mike Pence, who is so unloving toward more than half his constituents.
And there isn’t a thing you will agree with here, and I already know that, so I don’t know why I try. I think I’m done, Mel. But I will say i’m glad you neither live in my neighborhood (where three gay couples are cherished neighbors) nor go to my church (where two gay couples are cherished friends). If you have gay children or grandchildren, I hope you can love them as God made them – you will do unimaginable harm if you cannot.
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Judy. Hillary is not Bill. But she has enough evil of her own, which, with respect to morality, is arguably even worse than his,
And yes, making abortion illegal would not end all abortions. But that same argument could apply to all crimes. If we really acted on that, we would have no criminal laws against any criminal acts. And there is no such thing as a “safe” abortion! Not fot the mother, and certainly not for the baby.
As for Pence, thank you for proving my point! I wasn’t sure you would do that, but you did. 🙂
And I’m not sure what you mean “unloving treatment” and “unwillingness to see as equals” about Pence. Certainly I don’t see anything significant, other than he doesn’t agree with them (and I am aware, of course, that these days disagreeing with a so-called “progressive” is tantamount to treason and certainly “hate speech”).
But one thing I can say with absolute certainty: Any woman or any “gay” person living under a Pence administration would enjoy all the Constitutional rights and legal protection that everyone else has, as well as the inalienable “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness enshrined in the Declaration of Independence. Unfortunately, an unborn child — even one that is fully 9 months gestation or has exited the womb having survived an abortion attempt and fully capable of feeling pain — would not have the same rights under a Clinton administration.
.
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Jesus did not favor the straight white male ethic but over the years the church has vested its power in straight white males, to the detriment of everyone else. Jesus treated women with equality; Pence won’t even have a business lunch with a woman unless ‘mother’ Is there. You may think that’s virtuous. I think it puts any woman in his employ at a clear disadvantage. Maybe he’d prefer all women stay home and keep house? Maybe he is so lustful that he doesn’t trust himself? Whatever his reason, he disadvantages women.
Oh, and this nonsense of aborted babies being born alive and killed for convenience? Total nonsense. Doesn’t Happen. Where the heck do you get this stuff?
I’m not even going to try to comment on the rest of your piece. One or the other of us has severely mistaken God’s love and God’s message through Jesus Christ. I think it’s you. You think it’s me. We will not agree. I am done. Happy Easter.
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Happy Easter to you too! At this Easter time we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ who said: “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have LIFE, and have it to the full.” (John 10:10) There is no question that Jesus is pro Life. “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto Me”. (Jesus Christ, Matthew 25:40)
Now this might surprise you, but I do agree with your statement: “Jesus did not favor the straight white male ethic but over the years the church has vested its power in straight white males, to the detriment of everyone else.” Abortion benefits men. And it is primarily because of straight white men that the Roe vs Wade decision came into being; and it is primarily because of straight white men that America’s abortuaries are full and remain funded by the American tax payer. It is these men — fathers, husbands, boyfriends, bosses, etc — who pressure women to abort their babies because they can not deal with the “dishonor” of having fathered a child out of wedlock or being inconvenienced with another mouth to feed. Abortion allows men to literally get off scott free, while the woman pays the emotional, spiritual and physical price for the rest of her life. And the baby pays the unimaginably cruel and ultimate price.
That’s one reason there are so few “straight white males” who actually speak out against abortion. Most pastors, priests and other clergy are too afraid lest they offend the “straight white males” in their congregations who support the abortion industry so they can continue their illicit affairs in secret and get away with it.
But — and I’m sure you will be happy to hear this — the pro life movement these days is led primariily by people like Alveda King, the niece of the late Martin Luther King Jr., Lila Rose (Live Action), Kristan Hawkins (Students for Life in Amerca), Dr. Ben Carson (brilliant neuro surgeon) and many other “non white males”.
Yes there are a few “straight white males” who are willing to speak out on behalf of the right to life of all Americans. And, for sure, justice and truth do not depend on who is advocating for it. These virtues are color blind.
And if Pence’s only “character flaw” is his insistence on not being seen alone with a woman other than his wife, then he certainly has my vote. That rule is one which Dr. Billy Graham, and thousands of other honest and righteous men who have been in the public eye, have held to for many decades. It is certainly a prudent policy, especially in this day and age of slander, false accusations and black mail. Nor does it put women at any disadvantage. In fact, it protects them as well.
You seem to doubt that there are cases in America where babies who have survived attempts on their lives have been born alive and then left to die, or be killed by clinic staff. You call this “nonsense”. If so, then why have the Democrats continuously refused to approve the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act? But before I provide you with the concrete evidence that this form of infanticide does exist in America, let me ask you, would it bother you if it is true? Does it bother you that the state of New York (and other states as well) has approved legislation which goes way beyond Roe vs Wade and allows abortions to occur right up to the time of birth, even when there is no doubt whatsoever that these babies feel pain? Does it bother you that the legislature cheered and celebrated this decision?
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You have got to be kidding me. You need to quit this patriarchal stuff and let women control their own bodies. Your most recent post is simply an indication of the straight/white/male assumption that you know better than we do what we need.
Done, Mel. I will not respond further to you, no matter what you say and no matter how clueless you are. Done.
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On the contrary, I have no desire to control women’s bodies. Women can do what they want with their own bodies. But when they take another life, that is a different matter. Our desire is to protect the life of the human being who is in the womb, who is a special and unique individual life of his/her own who is slated to be killed. That life is loved by God and while he/she is regarded as “the least” by the world, I can assure you that God loves him/her as much as anyone else.
I noticed you ducked my question about babies who survive an abortion attempt, yet are left to die or killed by the abortionist. That baby is clearly NOT a part of the woman’s body. There is no way anyone can argue that it is. But I’m not surprised. This issue is really not about a woman’s body at all! It is about ending the life of a child who is not wanted. But why should being unwanted be a capital offense?
The abortion issue for America today is very much like the slavery issue was for those living in the 1800s. Those who supported slavery, like those who support abortion today, believe that one person has the right to own another human life. Both regard that ownership as absolute, even to the point of justifying their abuse, pain, lynching or killing.
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Evangelicals in general were not duped. They support Donald Trump because he made promises to the pro life community with respect to upholind the sanctity of all human life, something which all Christians should support! He made other other promises as well, most of which he has either kept or done his best to do so. Interestingly, when Donald Trump did all the immoral things which his enemies continue to harp on, he was a card carrying Democrat who was loved and respected by those who now are demonizing him. Evangelicals who support Donald Trump are much like the Jews of old who were so thankful for what King Ahasuerus did in the Biblical story of Esther. That emperor was no believer in the One true God, YHWH. He loved to brag about his power, his wealth and his women. But he did listen to the voice of God’s people (through Esther and Mordecai). And when the crunch came, he saved the Jewish nation from annihilation. Evangelicals voted for Trump because they see the current trends in America, (including its obsession with killing our own offspring through abortion, and now even infanticide), leading to this nation’s destruction. The continued cruel deaths of millions of unborn American children at the hands of the multi-billion dollar corporate abortion industry do weigh heavily on our shoulders. Evangelicals voted for Trump not because he was a “good” Christian, but because, like King Ahasuerus, he did listen to the voices of God’s people and because he offered the best chance to save this nation from morl decay and destruction.
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Just wanted to respond to a question that Peter raised to Franklin Graham in his letter….
“….you might be right about God putting Donald Trump in the White House-….. Still, how do you know that? Where did you get this info? ”
It seems that Peter does not understand that God is the one who puts men in power & authority on the Earth, so let’s see what God has spoken through the Prophets by the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses…(in this case 6 witnesses, 3 in the Old Test. & 3 in the New Test.)
____________________________
‘Thus saith the LORD God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me. For now I will stretch out my hand, that I may smite thee and thy people with pestilence; and thou shalt be cut off from the earth.
And in very deed for this cause have I RAISED THEE UP , for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.”
(Exodus 9:13b,15,16)
“For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge: HE PUTTETH DOWN ONE AND SETTETH UP ANOTHER” (Psalm 75:6,7)
” Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: HE REMOVETH KINGS AND SETTETH UP KINGS:” (Daniel 2:19-21)
___________________________
” Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were GIVEN THEE FROM ABOVE:” (John 19:11a)
” Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: THE POWERS AND GOVERNING AUTHORITIES THAT BE ARE OF GOD. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.”” (Romans 13:1,2)
“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; or unto governors, as unto THEM THAT ARE SENT BY HIM for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.”
(1st Peter 2:13,14)
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It seems that Peter wants to discredit President Trump because of some of his sins and that somehow God only uses SINLESS people in power.
If that were the case, there would be no one in power on the Earth.
Also, Peter probably believes the same about salvation as well, that it is by works of righteousness.
I will leave Peter with 2 scriptures which is a test so that we can know what is of God and what is not, even though the scriptures I listed above clearly declare that….
“for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing;
but iF IT IS OF GOD, YOU CANNOT OVERTHROW IT it—lest you even be found to fight against God.” (Acts 5:38,39)
“Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.”” (Romans 13:2)
ROMANS 13:2 reveals that Donald Trump will be re-elected in 2020 for another 4 years. PRAISE BE TO THE LORD GOD !!!!!
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Thanks for your comments and thank you for explaining to me how Paul’s letter to the Romans forecasts the 2020 election! I never would have guessed, but then being one of those blind, liberal, snowflakes my fleshly eyes are limited to what is actually written on the page of scripture. Only folks like you and the good Rev. Graham are spiritual enough see beyond the Bible itself to such lofty visions as the revelation of Donald Trump as God’s choice to save the world. Silly me! I though that was Jesus. Hey, would you mind telling us who God intends to win the 2024 election? It would save a lot of money, ink and bandwidth if we all knew that in advance.
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This is all most interesting! It appears to me that you are saying that no one gets into power unless ordained by God. Does that mean God decided Hitler should ascend to power? And does that mean that God allowed six million Jews to perish in the Holocaust?
And if not, then how do we tell when someone (DJT) was put in power by God and when someone (AH) was not?
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You said, “Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.”” (Romans 13:2)
But this very nation was founded in resistance to a government (a power) – are we then doomed to damnation?
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I have given you God’s own testimony by the mouth of His Holy Prophets, 3 witnesses in the Old Testament & 4 witnesses in the New Testament (a total of 7 witnesses when only 2 or 3 are needed according to God Himself), that God is the one who places men in power on the Earth to fulfill his own purposes,whether they are good men or evil men, these are not my words but God’s Word.
As a matter of fact I forgot one Prophet, a Prophet who Jesus said was the greatest, John the Baptist, who said by the Spirit of God,
“A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.” (John 3:27)
King Nebuchadnezzar was an evil king, but look at what God spoke through the Prophet Daniel by the Spirit….
“In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and besieged it. And THE LORD GAVE Jehoiakim king of Judah INTO HIS HAND..” (Daniel 1:1,2).
Or what God spoke again through the Prophet Daniel by the Spirit, not once, not twice but a total of 3 times in Chapter 4….
“TILL THOU KNOW THAT THE MOST HIGH RULETH IN THE KINGDOM OF MEN, AND GIVETH IT TO WHOMSOEVER HE WILL.” (3 Verses 17,25,& 32)
Or how about what God spoke through Daniel by the Spirit in Chapter 5….
“O thou king, THE MOST HIGH GOD GAVE Nebuchadnezzar THY FATHER A KINGDOM,…” (Daniel 5:18)
Or how about what Jesus Himself said to Pontias Pilate, a Roman, whose kingdom DESTROYED JERUSALEM THE CITY OF GOD’S PEOPLE…
” Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN THEE FROM ABOVE:” (John 19:11a)
Are you saying that Jesus is a liar ?????
Why not rebut the scriptures, which are the very Words Of God, which I have laid out, with other scriptures that contradict it ????
These are not my words, but God’s words, you do not have a problem with me but with God.
Stop giving “opinions” and use the Word of God to rebut the scriptures I have laid out.
Just because you do not understand the Ways & Words of God doesn’t mean it is not true.
“STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH.” (2 Timothy 2:15)
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You have certainly given verses that say that particular rulers are there by the hand of God. I think it is a huge leap to say that Donald Trump is there by the hand of God. If Trump is there by the hand of God, then it seems to me, so was Hitler. Is that your stance?
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Hello Judy,
I can tell that you are somewhat troubled about this particular TRUTH of scripture and I truly and sincerely understand your concerns.
I do not have my “own” stance, My stance is the Word of God, what God has revealed in the scriptures through His Holy Prophets is all HE has given us STUDY and SEEK OUT.
I gave you 3 examples of 3 EVIL Kingdoms whom God was responsible for putting in power.
All of these EVIL kingdoms murdered and killed God’s People,
Pharaoh (Egyptians), Nebbuchadnezzar (Babylonians), and ROME.
An EVIL kingdom is an EVIL kingdom, whether it is Nazi Germany or the 3 God mentions above.
They ALL killed God’s people, so try not to dwell on a “certain” king or ruler when they were ALL murderers.
3 times in Daniel Chapter 4:verses 17,25 & 32, God declares through Daniel, by the Spirit,
““TILL THOU KNOW THAT THE MOST HIGH RULETH IN THE KINGDOM OF MEN, AND GIVETH IT TO WHOMSOEVER HE WILL.”
God is not talking here about a “particular” kingdom, but all kingdoms in general.
Just as God declares in the Psalms…
“For PROMOTION cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But GOD IS THE JUDGE: HE PUTTETH DOWN ONE AND SETTETH UP ANOTHER” (Psalm 75:6,7)
God is not talking about a “particular” promotion, but all promotion.
” HE REMOVETH KINGS AND SETTETH UP KINGS:” (Daniel 2:19-21)
Notice that God says “Kings”, plural, not a particular king.
If you are asking me If I think God is a Murderer or He is responsible for people being Murdered ??
The answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Remember God Himself told us, THOU SHALL NOT MURDER ??
This commandment reveals the very Nature of God Himself…
If God was a Murderer, He would be a hypocrite by telling us not to commit murder.
Just because God places someone in Power, doesn’t mean God is responsible for his sin.
God gave man free will in the beginning BEFORE sin entered into them.
And man STILL has free will even AFTER sin has corrupted him.
This is why God sent HIS SON JESUS to destroy the “sin nature” that we ALL inherited through Adam & Eve.
And through JESUS’ SINLESS BLOOD on the CROSS, we can be partakers of the “divine” nature…..
“Whereby are given unto US exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2Peter 1:4)
I emphasize the word “US” in the verse above because this is talking about BELIEVERS who willingly receive Jesus and what He did for them on the cross.
The one thing that God has taught me is that HE IS RIGHTEOUS & HE IS LOVE,
And RIGHTEOUSNESS AND LOVE do not “force” anything on anybody.
Why does God “allow” evil to continue ??..
Why does He allow US to do wrong and sin in our OWN lives ??
Because HE is patient and long-suffering and merciful and would have all men to come unto the knowledge of the truth, which is only through the Blood of Jesus for the remission of sins, and become NEW CREATIONS IN CHRIST JESUS…
Something Hitler and others did not experience obviously….
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LOL! Charles, I am not at all troubled by the scriptures you quoted; I will admit, however, to being troubled by your *interpretation* of them.
I will rephrase my question – do you believe that God ordained Hitler’s ascension to the position of Chancellor of Germany?
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You are definately troubled by this subject Judy.
How can you receive any other “interpretation” when God Himself says to Pharoah, “I RAISED THEE UP” ??
Or when He says, ‘I GAVE NEBUCHADNEZZAR A KINGDOM” ??
Or when Jesus himself says to Pilate, “YOU RECEIVED THIS POSITION FROM ABOVE” ??
Please tell me why Hitler is the only MURDERER: you are concerned about when
God has already declared in His Own Word that He raised up Pharoah, Nebuchadnezzar, and the Romans WHO ALL KILLED GOD’S PEOPLE TOO ??
GOD answers your question Judy in HIS WORD….
I believe what God says…and Paul, by the Spirit of God, declares….
IT IS WRITTEN…
” Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. FOR THERE IS NO POWER BUT OF GOD: THE POWERS THAT BE ARE ORDAINED OF GOD.” (Romans 13:1)
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Well, Charles, I see that God raised up Pilate and Nebuchadnezzar and Pharaoh, but I don’t see in the Bible where God raised up Donald Trump. And I honestly doubt that God raised up Adolf Hitler. If He did, what happened to free will?
And you know, Charlie, I am not troubled by these scriptures. Not in the least. I do not think they say what you think they say, but that doesn’t trouble me.
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Judy, Like I said before, just because all governing authorities are ordained of God does not mean God is responsible their sins.
Hitler gave himself over to the devil and was demon possessed…
God had nothing to do with that…
One of he 7 things God hates, not to mention THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, reveals that God had nothing to do with Hitler’s sins against humanity…
“These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and HANDS THAT SHED INNOCENT BLOOD,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
“A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”
(Proverbs 6:16-19)
I think “HANDS THAT SHED INNOCENT BLOOD” covers it all.
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Sorry, Charlie – i’m not buying it. But believe what you like.
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Your not “buying it” because you do not believe the Word of God,
Which is puzzling to me because true Christians who have a revelation of Jesus Christ KNOW that the Old & New Testaments is the Word of God.
I have only stated what God says about the governing authorities on the Earth, that HE has placed them in power.
You either believe it is true or false.
The heart of your concern is why would God put a murderer in power?
Let me ask you this, Who else is God going to put in power ??
This is what God says about corrupted man which include YOU & MYSELF..
“But no, ALL have turned away; ALL have become corrupt. NO ONE DOES GOOD, NOT A SINGLE ONE!” (Psalm 53:3)
Even Jesus said, “there is NONE GOOD BUT GOD” (Mark 10:18)
So who is God supposed to put in power Judy ??
Where is this SINLESS person you are looking for to be put in power by GOD ??
I will answer that question Judy….
ONLY JESUS CHRIST IS SINLESS AND WORTHY AND HE IS COMING BACK VERY SOON TO RULE AND REIGN ON THE THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID FROM JERUSALEM….
What I do not understand is that you say you believe that God put Pharoah the murderer in power, who killed all the Hebrew babies, except Moses, and probably thousands if not millions of Hebrew slaves,…
But you do not believe God put Hitler the murderer in power, who killed millions of innocent Jews just like Pharoah did ??
This makes absolutely no sense at all Judy, sorry……
Jesus said to the “unbelieving” Jews….
“He that is of God, hears Gods Word’s; therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God” (John 8:47)
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MERCY people, get a life…
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Well, Peter, I think you have a point. If the couple wants a cake–bake it. As for the rhetoric regarding our president–we voted for a businessman, not a preacher. Now, that’s not saying this country doesn’t need one. Trump, however, probably makes a better preacher than some revs I have heard of.
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If someone asked you to bake a cake to celebrate the success of Ashley Madion’s success at promoting adultery across America, would you bake it? 🙂
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Peter, thank you for reminding me that not all Christians are horrible people. As a Pagan Priestess who was raised in the Baptist church, I have encountered some of the worst Christianity has to offer. However, when a man like you has the strength to stand up against the Pharisees of the day, and say what is true, you help people like me appreciate that Jesus, son of Joseph, was a good man, who taught people good things, and what is being done in his name is as appalling to him as it is to us. Franklin Graham is one who will be spewed from the mouth of the deity he claims to follow, as he is unworthy.
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Finally a true christian speaking what the Bible says!Thank you Peter.
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To our Christian Sisters & Brothers (the real ones referenced here by the wise Reverand Olsen…not the fake Trumplicans)!
Preach!!!
Thank you from Jews too!
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Do you all realize that Peter’s original post went live on May 17, 2017??? That’s more than 2 1/2 years ago, and we keep on commenting. He really struck a nerve with this one and I am so glad. One of the biggest questions for me in the era of 45 is how so many people who call themselves Christians support him – including members of my own family. And to see Billy Graham’s son as part of it all just boggles the mind.
But Peter, I have to tell you – it has really helped me to cope, to have read your blog post and to have seen the numbers of people who support it – non-Christians as well as Christians. Sometimes I find 45 and his minions to be really depressing, and it all feels so hopeless – but then someone else replies to the blog post and I am reminded once again that I am not alone.
THANK YOU, PETER, AND THANK YOU, FELLOW NON-45ERS! I need you!
Judy
>
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And thank you Judy! No, you are not alone. In the last few years many younger people from the evangelical wing of American Christianity are beginning to see Franklin Graham and his like minded right wing allies for what they are.
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Hope you have had a very good Christmas. Good to hear from you again.
But I’m sorry that people like myself are so depressing to you. I would simply hope that you can bring yourself to the place where you can consider that we, on the other side of the fence that you are on, do have logical, valid, and compassionately motivated reasons for believing the way we do. No one is perfect, and I would be the first to acknowledge that 45 is not perfect. He has his character flaws for sure as we all do. Nor is he the first President to have had an immoral past. But speaking as a Christian, who takes the Bible seriously, let me ask you a similar question to the one which I asked to Revolsen.
Do you regard the unborn child — the one slated to be killed in one of America’s corporate abortuaries — as being included in “the least of these”, described by Jesus in Matthew 25:36-41?
If you say yes, then the issue of what is done with these most innocent and precious members of American society becomes of utmost political and spiritual importance, The Democrat candidates for 2020 all — without exception, and including Hillary, Trump’s opponent in 2016 — support the status quo (over 60 million killed since Roe vs Wade, with 3000 being brutally killed every day) or want to increase the legal killing of these people, right up until the time of birth, and for any reason whatsoever, including gender selection. And that’s only one of that Party’s platform which is trampling Christian values and leading us in a descent towards moral freefall. 45, on the other hand, with all his quircks and faults, has done more to advance the sanctity of all human life tnan any of his predecessors on both sides of the aisle have done.
If you say “no” to my question, then I would challenge you to defend that view logically, given that these children in the womb in some states today (like New York and Indiana) have no legal rights whatsoever, and can be killed in the most gruesome and cruel ways imagineable.
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Hi Mel – I figured you’d pop up soon. Happy new year. I will remind you that we are talking about 45’s fitness for the presidency in general, not abortion. It appears that you are a single-issue voter who supports 45 solely to get the anti-abortion people in positions of power. I wonder if you are equally concerned with the infants and children who are confined in concentration camps at the nation‘s border, and how you reconcile that with your pro-life position.
It appears to me that many of those who support 45 do so only to get rid of Rowe v Wade. I wonder if you are aware that providing access to contraception and health education would GREATLY reduce the numbers of unwanted pregnancies. But 45’s supporters in general don’t seem to want to deal with other parts of the problem.
Also- your very last statement is a falsehood that is used to rally the troops. Full term babies **who are able to live** are simply not destroyed at birth. This is a fable put out either by 45 himself or his minions, and it is patently false. It. Does. Not. Happen.
From my vantage point, it looks like 45 has used many people who want Rowe v Wade overturned to get elected. From my vantage point it looks like a whole lot of people have made a Faustian bargain and refuse to look at the whole picture.
I know you are not going to believe or agree with me any more than I support your position. For this reason, I will not reply further on this thread.
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Donald Trump is in office today in large part because the Democratic Party has taken an extremist view on the killing of unborn children. Every candidate for the 2020 presidential race has tried to outdue themselves on how they would expand women’s access to kill their own offspring. The Bible clearly teaches us that God hates the shedding of innocent blood. Every abortion sheds innocent blood. So for true Christians to back a political candidate who promotes this killing is not possible. Its a non starter. Killing the innocent isa far worse crime than insulting people who first insult you or any of the other things which people accuse DT of doing these days. So if you REALLY want Christians to stop voting for him, then find a candidate among the Democrats who will not show such absolute contempt for America’s most innocent and precious members of society.
And of course we care about “the infants and children who are confined in concentration camps at the nation‘s border”. That is appalling. They are there because Congress has refused to provide the funding needed to the executive branch to provide proper facilities and deter the hordes crossing the border. They have been forced to rely on using the “cages” which were built during the Obama administration. What the Democrats have done in this issue is unconscionable. It needs to end. The money needs to be provided so that the issue can be properly addressed. And, I might add, its not just the Democrats who have held this up. There have been many RINOs who have joined forces with the Democrats to deny what is need in terms of funding.
Contraception and proper health education is good, but it is no substitute for legal protection. The law needs to be changed to provide protection to the most vulnerable and innocent. This does not negate the need for proper health teaching (as opposed to what Planned Parenthood is doing in the schools across America). Both ar needed. But the corporate abortion lobby is extremely powerful and has bought off so many politicians, it will be a daunting task.
And no, the last statement about late term abortions is not a fallacy. Between 1.1 and 1.4 percent of all abortions are carried out on “viable” babies. That is from the pro abortion Guttmacher Institutes own statistics. The real figure is likely much higher. And while 1.4 % may seem like a small amount, that is still between 8,000 to 12,000 a year. If you add the second trimester that number rises to over 100,000. These are babies, most of whom can feel pain. And as knowledge of fetal development contineus to increase, we are seeing evidence that this pain is far more horrific than previously thought. It does happen. And the reasons are not mainly due to the threat to a mother’s life. They include many of the reasons for which abortions are carried out in the first trimester. The biggest is the pressure which society — mainly some males in their lives — is putting on these women. In fact abortions benefit men. PERIOD. It has allowed men to literally get off scott free while the child pays the ultimate price and the women are left to bear the emotional, spiritual and physical scars the rest of their lives!
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Thanks Steven.
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Thank you for speaking so eloquently for many, many Christians who are dismayed at the number of Christians worshipping at the altar of Donald Trump or Franklin Graham or anyone else who isn’t Jesus. As far as I am concerned, Graham has abdicated any right to be a religious leader in favor of being a political figure. His father managed to visit many politicians in the White House while never making political statements or making a claim that one party was entitled to be called Christian. Billy, as a strong Christian leader, stood on the word of God and biblical principals and stayed above the fray.
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Thanks for your comments.
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Revolsen. You started off your letter saying that this was simply “pastor to pastor”. If that were true, you would have sent the letter to him privately.
Second. You argued that the bakers who refused to bake the cake were breaking the law, and therefore this was not persecution, but simply the consequences of breaking a valid law. That view, however, has been shown to be inaccurate. The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled differently, and the Bakers were acquitted. Will you now acknowledge that you were in error regarding this?
Third, you implied that the the bakers were discriminating on the basis of the sexual orientation of the ones requesting the cake. That is not true. The court documents show clearly that it was not true. The reason the cake was not baked was due to the purpose for which the cake was to be used, That makes all the difference in the world. If a heterosexual couple had asked for the cake instead of the two homosexual activists, then they two would have been refused if the purpose of the cake was for a homosexual “wedding”. It was NOT discriminataion against a person or persons, it was refusal to be a part of a ceremony or event which many believe is a desecration of holy matrimony. It would be like a first nations engineer refusing to drill for oil on the ancient sacred burial grounds of his ancestors. Or like someone refusing to bake a caked to celebrate the “success” of Ashley Madison’s promotion of adultery in America. BTW, adultery is legal in the United States. Would you bake a cake which celebrated its “success”? I’ve asked you that question before and you have refused to answer it. Let me remind you that portraying the case as you have, you have misrepresented the facts in an important manner which has led to the incitement of more hatred against people like Rev Franklin Graham. Not only is that slanderous, it is clearly “bearing false witness” — and bearing false witness violates one of the 10 sacred commandments — something which you are quick to condemn in others.
Fourth. You implied that Rev Graham is ignoring the passage in Matthew 25, where Jesus talks about helping “the least of these”. Rev Graham has dedicated his life to helping the sick, the hungry, the thirsty, the naked, the stranger, and others who clearly qualify as “the least of these”. Rev Graham is a human being, and like all of us (you included) may have his faults. But ignoring or being ignorant of Matthew 25:36-41 is NOT one of them. He has done more to help “the least of these” than most other American Christians. Millions of people around the world are alive and thriving because of the work Rev Franklin Graham and his team of dedicated Christian workers at Samaritan’s Purse have done faithfully over the years.
Finally, when you diss the Rev Graham for not accepting homosexual marriage, you imply that homosexual activists (like the ones who sued the bakers for refusing to bake a cake for their “wedding” ceremony), are included in Matthew 25’s list of “the least of these”. Since such activists have the resources, support and popularity to garner such positive nation wide media support, I would say they more accurately fit into the category of “America’s elite”, rather than Jesus’s category of “the least of these”. Nevertheless, you are entitled to your opinion.
But let me ask you this. If homosexual activists are to be included in “the least of these”, where would you put the unborn child who is being taken to one of America’s corporate abortion syndicates to have his/her body dismemebered, crushed or torn apart for the convenience of someone who does not want him/her?
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Hello Mel and welcome back. You might want to read the Supreme Court’s actual decision to which you refer. It did not invalidate the application of the anti discrimination statute to protecting gay and lesbian people in this circumstance, but questioned the fairness of the proceedings in this individual case and remanded it back to the lower court. Anyway, my larger point was that the state’s action under the statute (right or wrong) did not rise to the level of persecution. I stand by that. As I said in my letter, I have experienced nothing that I would equate with persecution, but I have known enough men and women who have faced real persecution to know what it looks like. Finally, I don’t know how abortion got into this mix as I never touched on it in my letter. But if you are really interested in my thinking on that issue (which, by the way, is pro-life), you might want to read my article on this blog: “What it Means to Be Pro Life.” Thanks for your comments.
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Revolsen. Thank you for answering (finally) my posts addressed to you. You have, however, ducked on the key questions I asked. So let me ask you again. Will you acknowledge at least that it has not been established that the bakers broke any law. And yes I have read the Supreme Court ruling. Much of your ranting against Rev Grahams was based on his not recognizing the illegality of the baker’s actions. But that is simply not a fact. The bakers were not breaking any law. They were standing firm in their religious convictions to not participate in an event which they believed to be sacreligious and a desecration of holy matrimony. You might not agree with that view, but it is a view based on historical orthodox Christian teachings.
And please acknowledge that you do finally understand that the cake was not baked because the bakers were discriminating against homosexuals. If the request from these activist homosexuals had been for a birthday cake, or any other type of cake they would have received the service. It was only because the cake was for somethiing which violated the baker’s sincere religious faith. That is a huge difference. You have yet to acknowledge it. And I did ask you if you would bake a cake if the request had been to celebrate Ashley Madison’s “success” at promoting adultery in America. I’m not surprised that you ducked, but it does reveal that you do understand deep down the logical weakness of your position.
Shadrah, Meshach and Abednego refused to bow down to the golden image. They knew that this might cost them their lives, but they were willing to stand up for their faith in spite of it. Similarly, the early Christians refused to say that “Caesar is Lord”, and repeated — for many a fatal move — the Jesus — not Caesar — is Lord. That is what these bakers were doing. They were remaining strong in their beliefs. Up until recently, that has been understood to be legal under the Constitutional protection for religious freedom. That is changing. Yes it is not the same as Christians in the Middle East being beheaded becaue they won’t convert from Christianity. It is not the same as Christians in Nigeria being massacred by Boko Haram. Nor is it the same as Christians in North Korea being put to death for reading the Bible. I too have lost close friends to intense religious persecution in countries like Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia and elsewhere. I know what real persecution looks like. But what is happening in the US now is the beginning….the first steps in a march towards the destruction of religious freedom in America. Rev Graham is correct that this be nipped in the bud and not allowed to go farther. You are unwise to dismiss this very real and dangerous trend.
You wondered why the abortion issue got into the mix. That was in response to your insinuation that Rev Graham was ignoring the “least of these” in Matthew 25. My point was that if you can include homosexual activists who have the resources to launch lawsuites which are ruinous to pious believers in Christ as “the least of these” even though they aren’t exactly starving or naked or strangers in a hostile land. (It is more accurate to describe them as part of a new elite group in America), then surely you should be able to include those who truly do qualify as “the least of these”!. in America,these are those who continue to be taken to slaughter in the abortuaries of this land every day with so few willing to care, and fewer willing to do anything to stop it, including self righteous clergy!
Yes I did read your article on “what it means to be pro life”. But what you presented is not pro life. You presented the vintage “pro choice” view point. Here’s but one quote: “Women, not the state, not the courts or the medical establishment, are in the best position to determine what, under all of the circumstances, is best for their own well-being and that of their children.” That says it all. Those who support a woman’s right to choose to kill her own child (as you clearly do in your article) base their argument on the same primitive and morally false assumption that was used to support slavery. That assumption is that one person can have total control and ownership over another human life/ That control and ownership is absolute even if it involves the infliction of pain, physical abuse, dismemberment, lynching or death.
And yes abortions are declining. But that is not due to so called “birth control” (which implies the acceptance of abortion as a means of regulating birth by killing the life in the womb — as opposed to contraception which prevents a human life being formed in the womb) being passed around. It is not due to “health education” of the kind carried out by the corporate abortion syndicates which infest high schools across this nation. That decline is due to the tireless work of young people in the pro life movement who hold conferences, speak at public forums and schools and are demonized, assaulted, slandered, and hated — on campuses, in churches, in news articles, other places across this nation wherever they go. These young people, led mostly by young women like Lila Rose, (many of whom have been victimized by the abortion industry themselves), are faithful in their peaceful promotion of the value of life, and the truth about the horrors of the abortion movement. It is also due to the availability of ultrasound and other technological advancements that can show, for sure, that the life in the womb is not simply a “lump of cells”, or “tissue” or other scientifically inaccurate canards peddled by the multi-billion dollar abortion industry.
The truth can not be suppressed forever. The pro life movement is growing among America’s young. The future will be truly pro life, where every human life will be valued based on his/her sacred nature, not dependent upon whether or not someone “wants them”.
When we all stand before Jesus on that day of judgment, and He holds in his arms a famine victim from Africa, or a child who has been orphaned and harmed by radical groups in the Middle East or a refugee who has nearly drowned escaping terror, or an unborn child who was slated for destruction…and He says to us: “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these…..ye have done it unto me”, which group (sheep or goats) do you think you will be placed in. I ask myself that every day. I have little doubt in my mind where Rev Graham will be. Based on his solid, unbending commitment to helping ‘the least of these” wherever they may be, I know of few others who would qualify better to be among the sheep on His right hand.
Rather than spend so much energy inciting hatred against him, perhaps you would be wise to learn from what he is doing!
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Mel: “Hate” is a strong word. I don’t hate Franklin Graham anymore than I think you hate me. So let’s tone it down a bit. As for the rest, I think I have been crystal clear about what I believe and why. I understand that you don’t agree with me and that’s OK. I will not, however, wade into the morass of all your rhetorical questions and hypotheticals. There comes a time when two people simply have to agree to disagree and wish each other well. I believe we have come to that point. Thanks again for your many thoughtful comments and have a great new year.
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Revolsen. Fair enough. I have no problem “agreeing to disagree”. I only ask that you do the same for Rev Franklin Graham, and the other Christian leaders who you publicly condemn.
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Sorry – I have to pop in on this one right here. Agreeing to disagree is fine when two people are having a discussion, but it seems to me that when has a fundamental moral difference with a public figure who is in the news and influencing many people, one has an obligation to speak out. I hope, Mel, that you are not asking Peter to remain silent in the face of what he and many Christians view as a public figure gone awry. That would *not* be what Jesus expects of us.
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Judy, once again I’ll have to disagree with you. The fact that Rev Graham is a public figure does not mean we should abandon our obligations to our fellow believers…especially when so much damage can take place when people are falsely accuseed, and the truth is so badly misrepresented.
Jesus said: “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples if ye have love for one for another. That spirit of love is clearly absent in this letter. People can have serious disagreements about many things. Those differences can be discussed in a spirit of friendliness and love , and when that is done, both sides generally learn something or ending up simply “agreeing to disagree” and moving on. I don’t know how you feel, but I think you and I have been able to have such a friendly and cordial discussion, even though our views are obviously quite different.
And I certainly agree with you that we need to speak out against injustice and unrighteousness. But there is a huge differernce between attacking injustice,or political ideas which are in error, and engaging in ad hominem attacks and slander. When this happens in the “body of Christ” it is even more damaging.
In fact Jesus laid out a very specific method for resolving conflicts between two believers. This is found in Matthew 18. If Christ’s methodology had been followed, (and the ultimate goal was truly to seek reform or correction for anything which Rev Graham may or may not be doing that is in error), it would have been far more effective/ if Christ’s advice had been followed. Any potential misunderstandings of the truth could have been cleared up before they were presented to the world. The false accusations would likely have been avoided. It is only AFTER those steps clearly outlined in Matthew 18 have been taken, that the issue should be brought to the “congregation” (public) and only if there is obvious rebellion against the clear teachings of the word of God and the Godly counsel of spiritual elders.
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Sorry, Mel – have to disagree. When Jimmy Carter was President, the fact that he was a Christian did not mean that he was absolved from criticism. Nor is franklin. Christians have an obligation to speak out – no one but Jesus is perfect.
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Judy. This may shock you, but I actually agree with you on your point about Jimmy Carter. And no one,regardless of who they are should ever be above criticism. But the method used does depend on the context. I guess I should have been more clear. The point about Matthew 18 is in the context of the “body of Christ” or, in the realm of the “church”. The doctrine of the separation of church and state (which is a Christian concept) is based on the idea of an institutional separation. The context of this letter, being sent “pastor to pastor”, seems to be intentionally aimed at being within the institution of the “church”, not the “state”. If the letter had been “citizen to citizen”, or Democrat/Republican to Republican then the process specified in Matthew 18 would not necessarily apply. At least that is how I read the text.
If Jimmy Carter had said something when he speaking, NOT as POTUS or as a presidential candidate, but as the head of a church based group such as Habitat for Humanity, then anyone having issue with something he said or did should follow the Matthew 18 example.
However, even within the realm of Caesar, Christians are required to “speak the truth in love”, to refrain from slander, and not to bear false witness. Those stand regardless of institution.
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Lynn, you might be interested to know that the Rev Billy Graham supports the work and message of his son Franklin. Furthermore, he (Billy) voted for Donald Trump.
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Dear Peter … Let me be frank. Your ‘open letter’ to Rev. Graham is too dripping & oozing with sarcasm to be taken seriously. I attend a ‘small church’ of 30 – 40 just as you do. I have attended small churches all my life. I can assure you that all ‘small church’ pastors are not so easily offended as you appear to be.
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Thanks for your comments!
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Thanks for your comments!
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It’s interesting to me, to see all these comments passing judgement on a man that you have never interacted with. You are blinded by hate toward Trump and his political party, to even acknowledge that Franklin has worked the majority of his life for Christ. He is always willing to go to the ends of the earth to provide comfort to people. He truly loves people and is passionate about telling people about the love of Christ. But y’all can’t see past what you think of him, what you hear in your anti-Trump circles.
The Bible plainly says you can’t love God if you have hate in your hate for your brother.
And why, as Christians do you have such a problem with others making money? Do you know what he does with his salary? No, you don’t. He lives a normal life and works harder than anyone I know. He is constantly working, either for the tour, or traveling to a disaster, or a war torn part of the world as the President of 2 organizations. We have no problem with actors making millions an episode for TV, but heaven forbid a Christian make a living doing Gods work.
Having worked for Samaritan’s Purse, I can tell you, I’ve never had a President/CEO- ever- care for their workers like he does. He is a man of character and he treats his employees like a man of God should.
I’ve witnessed first hand that God is alive and working through SP. I’ve witnessed things happen that couldn’t have ever been possible without the hand of God making it so.
I pray that God is able to remove the hate in each of your hearts, that you can learn to disagree on politics and still love and support the Godly work of your brothers and sisters in Christ. After all, we were called to go and make disciples- not to tear each other down or to spread hate
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Hello “Ashamed.” Rest assured that I do not hate Rev. Graham nor do I disparage his work. Furthermore, I was not responding in my letter to anything I read or heard about Rev. Graham in the media or in “anti-Trump circles.” I was responding to what he actually said in an address to “small church pastors” like myself. Thanks for your comments.
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But, no where in your letter did I hear love for a fellow Christian – just a tearing down of what he believes, and the work he is doing.
I’ll admit, I skipped a lot because of the snarky nature of the letter disturbed me coming from a pastor. Next time, maybe you could politely disagree and call for people to lift him up in prayer.
So you say you don’t hate him, maybe you don’t- but it didn’t sound like it in your rude use of his name, (I never hear him referred to as Frank, and I’m sure you haven’t either, so that should give you a clue as to what he prefers to be called.) To your talking down about what he feels is his calling to say…when given a chance…Nope, no love in this letter.
Christ has called us to be a part of his body, and we should extend grace and forgiveness and love, even to those we disagree with. We shouldn’t use our platform to cast shadows. We all need to work on lifting each other up instead.
Additionally, others here talk about how he is a disappointment. I disagree. He is a brother in Christ. He is saved by Grace.He always presents the gospel, and he is trying to do the best in the job he was called to do- being a Good Samaritan, and trying to go into the world and make disciples. He doesn’t take credit for what he does, he gives all glory to God. That isn’t a disappointment to me.
If I find I disagree with him, it’s okay. We can disagree, I don’t need to tear him down because we don’t see the same on everything in life.
I’m so tired of Christians being this way, it’s not what is expected of us. I’ll be working on that, and still praying for everyone.
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Bless your heart. Your insecurity shows.
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You are correct. Thank you for speaking out. So many of the comments here seethe with intense and irrational hatred! Add to that clear misrepresentations of the truth, inaccurate spinning of biblical texts, and it becomes an ungodly hatefest!
Rev Franklin Graham, is a man who has dedicated his life to applying shoe leather to the teachings of Christ, going to the poor, the hungry, the sick, the outcasts and the spiritually lost, doing what he can to alleviate their suffering and bring them the love of God. Why do so many people hate him? . Jesus said that true friendship with God would bring enmity from the world. He said that the world would hate us because it hated Him. So in a way we should no be surprised. We should even expect it. But coming as this does here from some who claim to be in the body of Christ does make it difficult to accept.
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Does Franklin live in a mansion? Drive in a limo? Wear expensive suits? Need I say more?
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Jill. No to each of those. You are right. That says it all. 🙂
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My grandfather was a minister and a faithful man of God. I lost all respect for Mr. Graham when he dipped his toes into politics. I loved Rev. Billy Graham.
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The late Rev Billy Graham fully endorsed and supported the work and message which his son, Franklin has been carrying out.
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After reading this it’s no surprise that you only have a congregation of 20-30.
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Thanks for your comments, Tammy. By the way, you might want to read the 6th Chapter of John the Evangelist. Jesus started out with a following of 5000 and ended up with just twelve. Sometimes preaching the Word doesn’t win you a lot of followers. But Jesus wasn’t interested in a crowd of admirers. He was interested in making disciples. I wouldn’t trade a single one from my faithful congregation of 20-30 disciples of Jesus for a thousand of Franklin Graham’s admirers who think Donald Trump is their champion.
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Peter, your “post” is an embarrassment to the Gospel! It is one-sided & not even balanced by the Word of God. For example…your said Christians should bake cakes for gay marriages & you equated this to “feeding your enemy”. I guess you forgot that God commanded us to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Eph. 5:11). Or “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believes with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Cor. 6:14-18)”. Or. “Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure (1Tim. 5:22).
Also, “the least of these” you spoke of, Jesus was referencing to HIS BROTHERS: “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me…Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matt. 25:40, 45).
We are to love the sinner, but we are to hate the sin…not accept it or condone it as “normal”. The Lord has used me to minister to numerous gays & to love on them. He has prophesied His loving words to them & His love brought them to tears. He has used me to deliver many from their “lifestyle” which is really nothing but demons within them which can be cast out of them, just like Jesus commanded HIS followers. You are one of His followers, right?
Those that refuse to “bake a cake” for immoral marriages are standing up for what is right. Sorry, there is no such thing as a gay marriage before God & man’s legal facade of such is an abomination to Him. His people should never give in to such things. And it is VERY true that Christianity is under GREAT attack in this nation! Maybe not like in other places in the world, but if God’s people do not stand up for righteousness, the US will fall just like those nations!
Maybe you may not see any persecution in your little town, but Christians ARE being persecuted for their faith in this nation. The LBGTQ+ agenda has been sweeping the nation & slowly stripping Christians of their rights. Right now they are trying to pass legislation that would literally make people be arrested for using the words “husband or wife” in public.
BTW…regarding President Trump…Yes, God DID place him in office. You’ve read Daniel 2:21, right?: “And he changes the times and the seasons: he removes kings, and sets up kings: he gives wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding”. My wife & I, along with multitudes around the world have been praying for revival to come ever since Obama became president. God put Obama in office also…that was a WAKEUP call for this nation!
On election night God moved on over 400 million of His people all around the world to pray for His will to be done on the 2016 election & prayer began at a set time worldwide. Maybe you didn’t know this, because you are so isolated from what is going on in the world? Hillary was winning by a big margin, then in an instant, after prayer began, we witnessed a great miracle & Hillary took a nose dive & Trump skyrocketed past her & won the election.
BTW…didn’t God say we are not to judge? “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why behold thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but consider not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye” (Matt. 7:1-5).
Jesus called such a person a “hypocrite”! Are you asking God to judge you for your past? What ever Trump may or may not of done in his past, is in his past. Besides that, Trump is NOT who he used to be. He is surrounded by numerous Christian leaders all the time, who pray with him & advise him & they confess that he has given his life to Christ.
Politics are not politics anymore…it is now a battle of good against evil! We are living in a time where men call evil, “good” & good, “evil” (Is. 5:20). I am not at all political, but I stand up for what is right. The Lord called me into the ministry & licensed me in 1978…in 1985 He ordained me as a pastor, then in 1992, He called me as an apostle through 2 prophets. He has had me serve as “pastor” ministering to pastors, prophets, leaders & individuals for nearly 35 years now & He keeps me going! There is no retiring from His work!
I went & read your “about me” & found that what I sensed about you was correct. I see you are now a “retired pastor” from the Lutheran Church, which is a dead, powerless “church”. You were a pastor, then went to “law school”, then became a pastor again…that makes you a legalistic 21st century Pharisee! Paul, the apostle called what you have done dung!
Have you “received power” & been “baptized in the Holy Spirit”, according to Acts Chapters 1 & 2? Apparently not, as your open letter to Franklin Graham is devoid of any wisdom from the Holy Spirit & reveals only a legalistic religious mindset. Sadly, the content of your post & many of your agreeing “posters” are only a far left-sided pseudo-Christian farce, that deeply grieves the Holy Spirit! Having eyes to see, they see not!
I can’t take anymore time to go over every point in your post, but have shared what I have to shed some light, in hopes that your eyes may be opened. I will pray that God will give you a divine encounter & that you will come to repentance.
Father God, please forgive Peter & have mercy on him. He doesn’t know what he is doing…please open his eyes, in Jesus’ mighty name, amen!
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Thanks for your comments and your prayers.
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Peter, you are amazing. You stay so calm. I tried to read that, and my blood pressure was rising – till I got to this: “Right now they are trying to pass legislation that would literally make people be arrested for using the words “husband or wife” in public.” Silliest thing I ever heard. At least it made me laugh and it lowered my blood pressure :-).
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I have learned during the course of my ministry that angry Trump supporters usually have a lot of unhappiness in their lives. Their marriage is going sideways, they’ve lost their jobs, their kids are acting out and they don’t know how to handle it. Donald Trump and his surrogates give them some concrete enemies to blame for their unhappiness. Engaging their opinions only seems to antagonize them. I discover, however, that when I simply ask “Hey, what’s going on in your own life these days,” they open up, start talking and sharing the sources of their pain. Obviously, I can’t do that very well online. What I can do is let them know that they are being heard. That’s something, anyway. Thanks for your comments.
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Interesting! I will have to pay attention to this. Thanks.
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I came back to this posting because when I posted my comment it said something like “awaiting admin approval”, so I wanted to see if my comment posted..
For the record, the Lord brought me to this post, as I wasn’t looking for anything like this. I had made a google search & scrolling down, fell upon your open letter.
After reading your post, I knew why the Lord led me to it. It is unbelievable that people say they Christian Democrats/Liberals. Those 2 words are a contradiction of terms. How can Christians support the murder of millions of innocent babies or condone abominations which God destroyed civilizations & think they are doing God “service”??? The Lord says people like this have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, from such turn away”. (2 Tim. 3:5). In Rev. 3: He said the lukewarm will be vomited out of His mouth!
You guys really need to get out of your safe space reality & open your eyes to God’s universe…there is a Real world out there! Jesus said “you are the light of the world” (Matt. 5:14). If you hear what He is truly saying, you would know that is is God’s people who are responsible for the condition of they world, because the world can only walk in the light that the Church gives it. So, the world is SO dark & evil because of the true condition of the church. Jesus is coming back for an On Fire church, without spot, wrinkle of blemish…not one that shines a complacent & compromised light, which is a mixture of darkness.
Judy Cain, I pray you repent for laughing at what I shared…it is NOT a laughing matter…just shows what is in your heart! Instead of scoffing, research it for yourself:
“The “Amend the Code for Marriage Equality Act” (H.R. 94) would make it a “hate” crime to even use the terms “husband” and “wife” in public”.
BTW, Peter…my wife & I have been very happily married for over 47 years now. We counsel people from all over the world. Your comment about Trump supporters is bogus. The ministry the lord has entrusted unto me, I deal with multitudes of people from all over the world. If I were you, I would get on my knees & beg for forgiveness. You even have “pagan priestess” following your post. That should show you the true condition of your “spirituality”!
We will all stand before God & give an account for our deeds. I choose to humble myself before Him & walk in His will for my life, not being herded like cattle, following the liberal progressive agendas, which are all an abomination to God.
I share these things because I am required to by God:
Eze 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
May God have mercy on you & your “followers”.
Matt. 10:14, Mar. 6:11, Lk :5, Lk 10:11, Act. 13:51
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Two things, GSY –
First, the HR Bill to make it a crime – it may be a proposed bill but it’s still one of the silliest things I have heard. Just because someone proposed it doesn’t make it reasonable.
Second, in my opinion you lose a lot of credibility when you aren’t willing to put your real name out there. Just sayin’.
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Again, thanks for your comments and congratulations on 47 years of marriage. Blessings to you and your good wife.
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Hi again, GSY –
One more comment – you may or may not be aware of the fact that in the late 1800s the state of Indiana tried to legislate the value of pi as 3.2. Another pretty silly attempt at legislation, as is HR 94. Just thought you might find that point thing amusing.
Judy
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“millions of innocent babies or condone abominations which God destroyed”
The BIBLE says God breathed the breath of LIFE into Adam. Where does it say that his Heartbeat meant he was alive?
“abominations which God destroyed”….smh. MAN made that out to be about gay people, and even if we didn’t…that was GOD who destroyed that, not man. Why don’t you do God a favor and leave HIS work to HIM? God knows what he is doing. He sure didn’t set ANYONE down here on Earth to pass judgement on anyone else, now, did he. I wish “Christians” would get that through their heads. Jehovah’s Witnesses sure seem to have gotten it.
As for your scripture slinging, I’m not well versed in the scripture, but I have ONE that I know God led ME to, maybe you should read it. It’s about Donald Trump.
Revelation 13:1-9
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Only one is called Reverend and that is God. That’s what God said!!!
‘What was written aforetime was written for our learning”
Everything that Jesus did on earth was an example for the church to follow.
Jesus Christ’s disciples continued in everything He taught them.
Jesus Christ was baptized in water, so were his disciples.
Jesus commanded them to go out in all the world and do this most significant act.
With the millions of followers, have the Grahams baptized anyone and how many?
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Pastor Pete Peters was a teacher who taught of whom the enemie’s of Christ are. When people say, they are taking God out of the schools,God Laws out of the court house (10 commandments) who do you think they are. I do not know of any group of People that are hated more than Christian Identity, the truth is very unpopular. Christ did not mince His words and they throw him in jail, then killed him. He also said “don’t be concerned if they hate you because before they hated you the hated me”
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Thanks for your comments Charles.
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Hi Charles – I am a Christian, have been since I was about 10 years old, and I do not think I have ever felt persecuted for my faith, so I find your comments surprising. As for taking God out of schools, that is certainly not true. I taught for my entire working life in public high schools and colleges, and I had many many fine interactions with my fellow Christians. However, it is true that we do not have a ”state” religion, so there are people of many different beliefs in our schools and colleges. The separation of Church and state is a founding principle of the United States, so that is as it should be. The founding fathers carefully and specifically rejected a national religion.
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Charles, your comment violates the standards governing dialogue on this blog. Please refer to remarks under “About the Portico.”
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Its called censoring the truth.
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Judy,
Since you never experienced it in our life means it isn’t true, or doesn’t happen? That’s like saying racism is true because you’ve never experienced it. Persecution for Christians do happen. Like the teachers/coaches that are fired for leading their teams in prayer before games, or the lady I know that was fired from her corporate job for leading her group in prayer after a team meeting. Christian bakers who are specifically targeted by people for orders they know they won’t do, in the hopes of ruining their business. It happen here every day. Christians all over the world are burned out of their churches, ran out of their homes and killed in other parts of the world. Franklin is right, we are persecuted- he has witnessed it, SP has responded to, and is currently responding to places that are trying to recover from attacks. True, we don’t see it at that level yet, but we may one day and we should stand together and protect and up lift one another. Keeps our heads out of the sand.
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Dear Ashamed: A bully is not persecuted because someone stands up to him and tells him he can’t run the playground anymore. So, too, evangelical Christians of the Trump flavor seem to think that they, their values and their version of Christianity deserves to rule the rust. Perhaps it feels like persecution when you suddenly discover that your voice isn’t the one everyone else has to respect, your faith is not the only one deserving of consideration and your particular moral vision is not accepted anymore as normative for the whole country. But that’s not persecution. That’s just learning that the playground belongs to all the kids and you need to learn to take turns and play nice. I apologize if this sounds condescending to you. But I am getting tired of listening to white evangelical Christians blubbering about how persecuted they are. It just isn’t so.
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Revolsen. Your analogy of the playground bully is quite inaccurate. What Christians who are being persecuted are asking for is not political power or dominance of other cultures as you have alleged. They are simply asking for the right to practice and express their faith in the public square. They are requesting freedom of speech and freedom of religon — things which are guaranteed in the Constitution of the United States; something which everyone is entitled to, yet is now being denied to them.
And if you think that persecution of Christians (especially those who speak out for the rights of unborn children) is not occurring in America, then you are simply ignorant. Of course it is not a crime to be ignorant. But it is not wise to mouth off at people who, in good faith, are informing you with concrete examples of this while you dismiss them with your obiously false analogy of the school yard bully. When you do this, YOU are the one who is sticking up for the bully. You become the one egging the bully on as he/she crushes the spirit of an innocent child on the playground.
In order to make your case against Rev Franklin Graham, you had to misrepresent the facts of the legal case against the Bakers who refused to bake a cake for a homosexual “wedding”. You argued that this was discrimination against the couple because they were homosexual. But that is not accurate. They refused to bake a cake because it was going to be used to promote something which violated their sacred beliefs! Namely that marriage is Holy, ordained of God! It is the complete loving commitment between one man and one woman devoted to each other for life. That, Revolsen, is Orthodox Christianity, and has been since Jesus reaffirmed the true meaning of marriage as given in the 2nd Chapter of Genesis (2:24) . To change, willy nilly, that which is Holy is to desecrate what God meant as sacred. It is bowing the knee to the Golden image when we are only to worship the One True God YHWH. It is calling Caesar Lord, when only Jesus Christ is Lord. True Christians can have nothing to do with that which defies what is Holy.
You are free to disagree. You can state your theological reasons for why Christ’s reaffirmation of Genesis 2:24 is not valid in your view. You can deny that Jesus even existed. What you can NOT do — if you want to claim the moral high ground while at the same time speaking condescnedingly to those who disagree with you — is misrepresent the facts! Both with your inaccurate analogy of the school yard bully, and of the legal case which you have used as the main thrust in your unprovoked attack on a fellow Minister of the Gospel..
That, my friend, is breaking the 9th Commandment (THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS). And that is precisely what you have done, Revolsen.
I said to you that I can “agree to disagree” with you, as long as you can agree to disagree with Reverend Franklin Graham and the other Christian leaders with whom you disagree and similarly berate publicly. As long as you continue to pulicly accuse your fellow brothers and sisters in the faith (and do so by breaking the 9th Commandment) , then know that there are those who will hold you accountable.
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Ah Mel – freedom of speech and forcing others to pray in your tradition are two very different things. Pray the way you want to, but don’t try to tell me or my Jewish friend that we have to pray the way you do.
And to Ashamed, who is too ashamed to use his/her real name: The only persecution I have ever experienced in this country has been perpetrated by moralistic evangelicals who are convinced that i’m not doing Christianity right because I’m not doing it according to their beliefs and standards.
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Judy. Everyone should be free to pray the way they want to. I am not aware of any one is being forced to pray in qny way that they don’t want to except for Christian school children who are being forced to pretend they are Muslims, bow down and face Mecca and repeat the Shahada.
And how did these Christians persecute you? Did they physically attack you? Did they take you to court? Were you fined ruinous lawsuits at their request? Or did they simply disagree with you publicly? Please describe the persecution you received.
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Judy I’m glad you want to put your name out there, but don’t try to make me feel bad for comments how I want to. (Sound familiar?)
I don’t have a problem with your Jewish friend, I’m not brow beating him to convert…I will just be kind as Christ would want me to be.
Christians aren’t as horrible as you are trying to make them out to be.
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Mel: Sorry you don’t like my analogy. But I find it passing strange that after getting their man in the White House, stacking the Supreme Court in their favor and, at least until 2018, controlling both houses of congress, white evangelicals STILL feel persecuted. How much more power and control do you want? Will you not be satisfied until all of us who are not you simply pack up and leave the country? And when it comes to “berating” people publicly, you know very well that the comments made about me on this thread far surpass in lack of charity any adverse comment made by me against Franklin Graham (and I maintain that I did not make any false allegations against Rev. Graham, denigrate his ministry to the poor nor, in my opinion, did I treat him with disrespect). Still, you don’t hear me whining about how persecuted I am and how unfairly I am being treated. Furthermore, if you take the time to research the response of the martyrs in the early church, you won’t find them whining about how unfair the empire is treating them and what a pity it is that pagan culture doesn’t appreciate or treat them with respect. They accepted persecution without complaint because, after all, it’s what a disciple of Jesus can expect. But there is a world of difference between persecution for following Jesus and the mere loss of privilege.
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Revolsen. Thank you for your reply.
The persecution which exists in the USA and Canada doess not just affect “white” evangelicals. Your continued efforts to make this an issue of white racism reflects badly on your ability to comprehen the extent of this problem.
I might add here, (since you want to bring up the race card) that one reason why many people who are appalled at Donald Trump’s character but still voted for him was because of the truly racist and eugenics policies of the Democratic Party. That party supports the status quo of abortion in America (with some wanting it expanded even further, and even established as a “human right”) which is killing unborn black children at a rate 3 to 5 times higher than those of other races. That is decimating the black population in a way the KKK could never even have dreamed about. So all this “white” evangelical talk is simply a red herring. It affects the Clarence Thomases, the Candace Owens, the Dr. Ben Carsons, and other non white Christians just as much.
The true racists are those Democrats — many who happen to be old white males — who want to expand the killing of unborn children not only in America, but also want to bilk the US taxpayer into paying for this killing in Africa and Asia. How can anyone in good conscience support this kind of underhanded eugenics?
You are correct that great strides have been made in the US (with the issues you cite) to reduce the persecution of Christians in Americ. And that has been precisely because Donald Trump, with all his warts, has actually listened to the voice of Gods people and has seen their plight. So why wouldn’t Christians vote for a President who listens to and tries to address their concerns? Why would we, instead, vote for a party which wants to expand the killing of unborn babies, especially those who are black?
But there is still a long way to go, especially in the cultural and educational halls of America. Students are still being bullied by their teachers and schools for expressing orthodox Christian beliefs or even praying on their own time. Christian and pro life groups are denied permission to have clubs at schools. Universities regularly ban Christian and pro life speakers and pro life demonstrators are regularly physically attacked, and abused. Currently in California, the pro life people who exposed Planned Parenthood’s selling of unborn baby organs (which sometimes even ensures that the babies are born alive so the organs can be harvested easier outside the womb), have been charged by the State on spurious charges and face serious jail time, while the perpetrators of these literal crimes against humanity are supported by leading Democrats and walk free. For those who are awake, there is no question that the persecution of Christians in America, while not at the level or some other countries, is still a problem! This is especially the case in cities and states controlled by the Democratic Party. If the Democratic Party gains more control of the reigns of power, this will increase substantially.
Berating people publicly is not normally “persecution”. So in my view you are not being persecuted on this forum even if some of the comments have not been exactly civil. Anyone who dares to challenge today’s “official religion” of political correctness will face similar public berating — though much more incisive than anything you’ve experienced here. So there is nothing for you (with regards to persecution) which you have to whine about. Persecution is when unjust lawsuits are thrown at you because of your faith. Persecution is when you are physically attacked because of a truth you are expressing. .Perseution is when laws are passed which forbid you from practicing key elements of your faith, or force you to participate in activities which are considered sinful or unholy. And that is still happeneing in America today. And levelling a ruinous lawsut against a couple for holding fast to their beliefs on the sanctity of marriage IS persecution….it is not merely the loss of privilege as you incorrectly allege.
The early Christians did not live in a democracy. They were under authoritarian rule of a dictatorship. That is not what America is supposed to be. In America, “we the people” are Caesar. It is up to us to make laws which are just for everyone, and which allow for the free proclamation of the Gospel. Yes Jesus demands that we rejoice in our sufferings, But He did not command us to create a political environment which ensures the expansion and continuation of our suffering. Why is it wrong to insist on laws and policies which afford Christians the same rights in the public square which everyone else has? Why should Christians be fined, or go to jail, or lose their jobs, or other rights simply because of something which they believe? Standing up for one’s rights, and (more importantly) the rights of others who are being persecuted, is not whining. It is promoting jusitce!
And that is something which Christ demands that we do.
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Mel: As I’m not a Democrat, I’ll not take up the banner on their behalf. They have consultants who get paid well for that. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say that students are being “bullied” for expressing their orthodox beliefs in our schools, nor am I clear on what you define as “orthodox.” But as someone who attended public school through high school, sent all three of my kids to public school and attended a public law school, I have never seen, much less experienced, any bullying on account of one’s religious belief-at least not Christian. If anything, Christianity is favored. It has always been the Jews, Muslims and others who have had to fight for recognition of their religious holidays in the school, the workplace and the public square. Again, although you don’t care for the analogy, it’s a matter of spoiled, privileged kids suddenly finding out that, no, they don’t own the whole playground. That’s not persecution. That’s life.
I am getting a little tired of hearing you say that Donald Trump is listening to the concerns of Christians and defending their rights as though white evangelical protestants were the only Christians around and that they represent the whole church catholic. They don’t. And yes, it’s a fact that Trump’s most vocal support comes from white evangelicals. The fact that you can point to a few non-white exceptions doesn’t invalidate the rule. What I tried to make clear in my letter to Franklin Graham is that this Trumpist brand of Christianity is not the only brand out there nor is it, in my opinion, the most genuine. As you know from this thread, a lot of folks are thrilled to hear that good news. And finally, if you think race is a red herring, you have more to learn about that than I can teach you. I suggest that you sit down with a pastor from the AME Church and let him or her show you what life in America looks like through the eyes of non-whites. It might just open you own.
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Revolsen. Once again thank you for your reply.
First, I mentioned that Donald Trump has liistened to the voice of Christians….all Christians….not just “white evangelical”. I did this because he has listend to white non evangelicals. and white evangelicals who disagree with Franklin Graham. He has listened to Jews, pious and otherwise! He has listened to Orthodox Christians, mainline Protestants, and Catholics, practicing ones and otherwise, He has listened to the cries of Middle Eastern Christians — both those who have come to America as refugees and those still in their homelands suffering persecution. He has listened especially to black evangelicals as well as black non evangelicals. In fact one black Minister of the Gospel recently was quoted as saying that Trump is the MOST pro-black president ever! And it is because Trump has taken the time to listen to the voices of all these Christians, he has a much better understanding of what is happening with respsect tot the marginalization and perseution of Christianity around the world and at home than you apparently do.
Your personal story of never having experienced any kind of persecution or marginalization due to Christian beliefs is not typical of many evangelical families today….at least in some parts of America. And your whitewashing of what is happening to them as ” a matter of spoiled, privileged kids suddenly finding out that, no, they don’t own the whole playground” is as inaccurate as it is inflammtory. Even when I lived in the USA some years ago, I was told by the principle of the public school where my children were attending that they were not allowed to engage in any Chiistian activity on school grounds, including singing Christms carols and even saying a prayer before eating their lunch. I suppose if children remain quiet, never discuss their faith, and never express their views openly, then they are less likely to be victimized. But if you practice your faith, or express your Christian views, (especially as they relate to the orthodox, historical church teaching on the sanctity of human life and holy matrimony), then watch out. Just google — pro life student assualted — and you will get almost 6 million hits. Check it out for yourself! This is not whining about losing privilege! That is not hearing opposing ideas and opinions. This is being physically, and psychologically bullied and attacked for something which is a Constitutional right.
You made a statement in your previous post which I did not address, but will do so now since it relates to this whole issue of persecution. You had stated that you: maintain that you “did not make any false allegations against Rev. Graham, denigrate his ministry to the poor nor, in my opinion, did I treat him with disrespect”.
I disagree . First, you implied that Rev Franklin Graham was not aware of (or was ignoring) what the Word of God states in Matthew 25:36-41. Yet this is the exact passage (and others similiar to it) upon which Frankiln Graham has built his Ministry to the poor and needy of this world. Second, you misrepresented the facts of the actual case against the Bakers who were prosecuted for refusing to bake a cake for a homosexual “wedding”. By doing that, you made it appear that Rev Graham was supporting discrimination, which he was not doing. At first I could understand why you might say such things since the Democratic Party, and their media mouthpieces repeated that canard relentlessly. But you never retracted that accusation even after the facts of the case were pointed out to you. The bakers in question WERE being persecuted because of their Christian faith. They were not discriminating against anyone becuse they were homosexual. If anyone else who was a non homosexual had requested the same thing it would have similarly been denied. It was not about “who”, it was about “what”.
I can understand why the Democratic Party would want the facts of the case misrepresented. I can even understand why the mainstream media would act on their behalf and continue to disseminate the misinformation on their behalf. What I can not understand is why someone like yoursself, a professed Minister of the Gospel, would continue to do so, even after having been made aware of the truth.
Rev Franklin Graham may have his faults. Who doesn’t?! He is a human being and needs to be held accountable for the trust which has been placed on him by God’s people to bring Christ’s hope and love to the world. If there are valid criticisms of what he is doing, then these should be addressed — especially if they can be done the way Christ intended us to address them (Matthew 18). But Rev Graham was speaking the truth when he was decrying the persecution of Christian believers in the world today — even here in North America. And he is certainly NOT guilty of ignoring the implications of Matthew 25, and ignoring the plight of “the least of these” before God.
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Mel: I already replied to your criticism of my Open Letter two and a half years ago. Sorry if it does not satisfy, but that’s all I’ve got. Let’s be clear about religion in public schools. There is no law against praying, singing Christmas carols or expressing your faith and there never has been. Do some school officials break the law or misinterpret it? I’m sure they do. The balance between respecting the first amendment rights of students to self expression and the needs of the school to maintain order and ensure a safe and hospitable environment for all students is a difficult one to keep. That’s why we have courts and a lot of cases dealing with this issue. The courts have, over all, done a good job of maintaining the balance. Of course, I agree that bullying has no place in school-or anywhere else for that matter.
If Donald Trump is listening to my church as it has been pleading for a let up on his draconian restriction on refugee admission so that we can get back to the work of refugee welcome and resettling that we have been doing for the last seventy years, he has a strange way of showing it. So, too, I think the American College of Catholic bishops would be surprised to learn that Donald Trump has heard their concerns and those of the Pope on climate change. About the only believers in any significant number who feel Donald Trump is on their side are white evangelicals who supported by a margin of 81%. And yes, they did that because they are pro-life-or so they say. But here is the thing: though we might disagree over whether abortion should or should not be legal, there is a lot we could be doing together to reduce and perhaps even end the practice. Comprehensive healthcare for women and girls, thorough sex education, access to counseling and birth control for girls and boys of all ages have been shown by numerous studies to reduce both unwanted pregnancies and abortions. That, by the way, is a fact-and not the alternative variety. But white evangelicals have shown not merely disinterest, but outright opposition to these measures. So, pardon me if their crocodile tears for the loss of all those poor unborn babies don’t move me much.
Again, thanks for your always thoughtful and provocative comments.
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Revolsen!! “Crocodile tears’???? Really?
For all those “poor unborn babies”??? Are you trying to use sarcasm? If so, it doesn’t wash. It just comes across as callous contempt.
You completely ducked the issue of how you have misrpepresented Rev Franklin Graham. You merely said you had replied to my letter previously 2 and a half years ago. Yes, but your answer then similarly ducked the issue! That is that you have misrepresented Rev Graham, and the facts of the legal case which you used to attack him.
Those”poor unborn babies” are sacred human lives, created in the image of God. They are being dismembered, having their heads crushed, being poisoned, made to be born alive so their body parts can be extracted and sold. These “poor unborn babies” can often feel the pain of what is happening to them. Human rights groups rightly condemn China (and other countries) for selling the body parts of its political prisoners. Yet we are doing just that in America today to our own children in the womb. And those who are exposing these crimes — not the ones committing them — are the ones facing the bully hand of the State.
Does that not bother you? These children who are being so brutally put to death are our neighbors. They are “the least of these”. How can you simply cast them aside, with what appears as a sarcastic quip and walk by on the other side of the road?
I can assure you, these are NOT crocodile tears! The pro life students and others who are being attacked, slandered, and abused by cultural Leftists on the streets and in our academic institution are gaining nothing personally from their actions. Their concern is genuine and it will not be squelched by the ridicule and contempt of the cloistered Left, or the injustice of the State. The sanctity of human life is fundamental to any free and just society. The right to Life, like the right to Liberty, is an inalienable right. It is not a privilege!
Yes, there are a lot of things which can be done where the Left and the Right can work together. The reason that conservatives (not just evangelicals) do not support a lot of the things which the Left advocates with respect to abortion is because much of the healthcare, sex education, and counselling which they have injected into the educational system is designed — not to save lives — but to encourage promiscuity and irresponsible sexual conduct. This is intentionally designed NOT to reduce unwanted pregnancies but to ensure that they continue, and that these can then feed into the multi-billion dollar abortion industry’s coffers….AND at a rate which affects black Americans 3 to 5 times greater than those of other races.
If you propose good and proper sex education and counselling, and proper healthcare, then you would get a much better response from the conservative side. The architect of Canada’s healthcare system (at one time the envy of the world) was one of those people you so love to disdain! He was a “white evangelical”! A Baptist minister who turned to politics. He faced much of the same skepticism which other groups have faced as well. But unlike many others, he took the time to explain in detail how it would work, how it would be paid for, and who would control the actual health decisions. By doing this,and demonstrating that it was clearly not a power grab or a descent into Marxist Socialism, he gained the confidence of the skeptics.
(Of course, since then the system has been taken over by the similar kinds of special interest groups and they have all but destroyed what was once a great system). .
And, in the days of slavery, there was much that the abolitionists and the pro slavery owners could have done to work together to prevent the plantation owners from believing they needed slaves to survive. But none of that reduced the need for the legal abolition of slavery. It is NOT enough simply to reduce the incidents of slavery! That is an unjust practice which should not only be illegal but unthinkable.
In the same way, we can all work together to prevent women from being forced into believing that killing their child is the best option for them. But that does not reduce the need to provide legal protection for these precious lives and, like slavery come to be seen as a practice which is unthinkable!
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Mel: I don’t believe that I have “ducked” or misrepresented anything. I have no different response than the one I made two and a half years ago. I don’t see any utility in repeating it. Furthermore, I don’t believe I said a single word about abortion in my letter. But since you seem to be obsessed with it, let me ask you, just how would your “legal protections” work? Would you prosecute women who abort their children? Would you imprison them? Or forcefully sterilize them so they don’t repeat their crime? Or would you prosecute the doctors? And by the way, would you allow for any exceptions at all? Would you have the law mandate that a thirteen year old girl raped or victimized by a relative bear the child of her abuser? Would you force a woman to carry a pregnancy to the end if it would put her life in danger? If not, how much danger must she be in before she is granted an abortion to save her life? 100% chance of mortality? 80%? Or just slightly greater than 50%? And what doctor do you think is actually going to quantify a risk like that? Furthermore, if you are willing to allow for exceptions, who decides when they apply? Does the doctor-and if he gets it wrong, does he go to jail? Or does the court decide? Nice idea, except that a case that would obviously require expert testimony takes more than a year to come to trial. Pregnancies last only nine months, so would you create a special “abortion court” that can expedite these cases? And by the way, if it is criminal to abort a fetus, what about women who smoke, drink alcohol or engage in other behavior that might endanger their unborn child? Shouldn’t they be prosecuted? And should they be imprisoned or merely have their diet, exercise and activity strictly supervised by a court appointed guardian? What about the bartender that serves drinks to an obviously pregnant woman? Isn’t he just as guilty? I have never heard any of the “pro-life” folks explain to me how these questions are going to be dealt with under their proposed “ban” on abortion.
I’ll tell you a little secret: Roe v. Wade has always been the right wing political politicians’ best friend. Why? Because it allowed them to spew all the anti-abortion rhetoric they wanted and propose whatever silly legislation they wanted and they knew it would probably never see the light of day in any legislature or, on the off chance that it actually got passed, would be shot down by the court. Then they could point to their valiant efforts and blame the liberal activist courts for their failures. But now that it looks as though Roe v. Wade might be reversed, these politicians are secretly shaking in their boots because they have no idea what it would really mean to “ban abortion” anymore than the empty headed numbskulls marching around Planned Parenthood clinics with signs in their hands shouting slogans. Nobody knows what it would mean because, if fact, abortion was never really banned. Almost nobody was ever prosecuted for it in the days when it was illegal in some states. Everybody knew then and anyone with a lick of sense knows now that criminal law is a blunt instrument. Can you point to a single reputable study showing that criminalizing abortion curbs it? That’s a rhetorical question because I already know there are none. There are, however, proven ways to reduce unplanned pregnancies and, thus, resort to abortion. I discussed those in my last post.
Though I am genuinely thankful for your comments and input, I think we have reached a point at which further discussion of this issue is unlikely to be productive. So, if you wish to respond, by all means do. Your remarks are welcome. But I’m done.
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Revolsen. I know you are eager to end this discusion. But you asked a lot of questions in your last post which deserve a response. And since you said that no pro life person had ever taken the time to talk to you about those questions, let me be the first. For sure there are far more competent and knowledgable pro life people than myself who could give you much better answers. But I don’t want you to be able to say that we are ignoring those points, or that they are not important to us.
I would strongly suggest that you meet more pro life people and get to know what they are thinking and what drives them. It seems you have sequestered yourself too much among those who think like you.
Before I answer those questions, however, let me state that I agree with you that the Republican party in the past has completely dropped the ball on the issue of the right to life for America’s unborn children. Time after time politicians who have claimed to be pro life have been elected only to end up doing nothing to protect the rights of “the least of these”.. All the more reason to support Trump who is about the first politician to do more than simply talk about such rights, but is actually trying to fulfill his campaign promises regarding them. Why would the pro life community throw Trump under the bus when he is finally doing what we have been hoping someone would do for decades.
Also, let me remind you about how the issue of abortion entered our discussion here. In your public attack against Rev Franklin Graham you clearly insinuated that he was ignoring Matthew 25:36-41. After referencing this passage, you stated: “…, that, too, is in the Bible. (It’s a great book, Frank. You should read it sometime.)” You implied that the plaintiffs in the legal case discussed, (the homosexual activist couple who were denied the cake”) were included as “the least of these” who Jesus talked about in this passage. Yet, as I mentioned before, since there is no mention of homosexuals in this passage, their inclusion is somewhat of a stretch. But if you can read their plight into this passage, (especially given the fact that this particular couple had the full backing of America’s cultural elite, as well as the prosecutorial apparatchiks of the State of Colorado as well as suport from clergy everywhere from the Left), then it is also reasonable to include those who truly can be regarded as “the least of these” — the unborn child facing America’s abortuary industry.
You asked: “But since you seem to be obsessed with it (abortion), let me ask you, just how would your “legal protections” work?”
Answer: It would work in many different ways which would be determined by politicians who would be forced to include the lives of two people, rather than just one, and to define a proper balance which protect both in as equal manner as possible. Right now it is only the life of one — the mother — which matters. The other life — the unborn child — is given (in some states and in Canada) no consideration whatsoever, and can be killed at any time during the pregnancy, and for any reason whatsoever. In its stated goal of ending misogyny, the abortion industry has simply advocated a culture of extreme misopedia which is far worse. That would hopefully end.
You asked: “Would you prosecute women who abort their children? Would you imprison them? Or forcefully sterilize them so they don’t repeat their crime?
Answer: “There is a huge difference between a woman who has been pressured into having an abortion by some male in her life (which is usually the case….abortions benefit men, the women pay the emotional, physical and spiritual price for the rest of their lives, and the unborn child pays the ultimate price while the man gets off scott free), be it a husband, a boyfriend, a boss, a brother, or even a minister of the church, who has been misinformed about the actual humanity of the unborn child (believing the dehumanizing rhetoric of the abortion industry that the life in the womb is only a “lump of cells”, or “tissue”, or a “virus”) and a woman who is fully aware that she is terminating a real human life, and continues to do so, or even gets pregnant specifically so she can sell the body parts of her unborn baby to the mercenary minded abortion industry. So there is no answer which would be universally applicable to your questions on this. It would have to be determined on a case by case basis similar to how murder is treated with humans in other stages of life, such as with first degree, second degree, or manslaughter. Again, the law would insist on the rights of the unborn child being taken in to consideration.
Perhaps, since you think that a 135,000 ruinous fine against the bakers is qute appropriate, perhaps that amount should be considered as a benchmark. Unless you can convince me that depriving a homosexual couple a wedding cake is a far more egregious crime than depriving a human child of his/her very life, then maybe that should be the starting point penalty for any woman having an abortion.
You asked: “? Or would you prosecute the doctors?”
Answer; Absolutely. Again, the extent of their prosecution would depend on many factors. But one thing is for sure with doctors….they are not acting in ignorance of the humanity of the unborn child. They know perfectly well that the life which is being terminated is a human life.
You asked: “would you allow for any exceptions at all?”
Answer: It would be the same as any exception which applies to people in other stages of life. The right to self defense is granted to everyone. If you can prove that someone is imminently endangering your very life, then in most jurisdictions, you have the right to terminate the life of that person who is about to kill you. It would be the same with abortion. But the number of cases in which this applies in North America are so small they are statistically insignificant.
You asked: “Would you have the law mandate that a thirteen year old girl raped or victimized by a relative bear the child of her abuser?
Answer: Again such cases are statistically very small, though they do occur. Just yesterday I read an account of a young girl whose mother was raped when she was 11 years old. Instead of having the abortion which everyone was urging her to have, she refused, and bore the child, who is now such a blessing to her mother and so many other people.
So let me ask you a question…..should a child be put to death for a crime that his/her father committed? Reflect on that and you will have your answer.
You asked: “Furthermore, if you are willing to allow for exceptions, who decides when they apply? Does the doctor-and if he gets it wrong, does he go to jail? Or does the court decide?”
Answer: Since, with modern medical technology the cases where an unborn child actually threatens the life of the mother is so rare, this is not the major problem you are making it out to be. However, there are options which could work in a timely fashion (such as an approval committee at the hospital), or other determining factors which would enable a doctor to carry out such a procedure in a timely fashion without risking his own credentials or standing. But there certainly would need to be significant oversight of whatever procedure is set up, since the potential for abuse is well known.
You asked: “, if it is criminal to abort a fetus, what about women who smoke, drink alcohol or engage in other behavior that might endanger their unborn child? Shouldn’t they be prosecuted?”
Answer. Absolutely, if they have been warned or advised on these and continue to do them regardless of these admonitions, then they are knowingly causing harm to an innocent child. The extent of their prosecution would depend on many factors, but again, the point being that the lives of those in the womb need protection and their rights need to be addressed.
You asked: “What about the bartender that serves drinks to an obviously pregnant woman? Isn’t he just as guilty?”
Answer: Absolutely. The bar tender should not give alcohol to a pregnant woman any more than he should give to someone he knows will be driving a vehicle after his/her drink. It is the same as a gun owner selling ammunition to a teen-ager who is obviously high on drugs wearing a trench coat. For sure there is complicity or serious negligence involved if the proprietors in these places fail to act to protect the innocent.
You asked: “Can you point to a single reputable study showing that criminalizing abortion curbs it?”
Answer: Revolsen, you say you are not a member of the Democratic Party. Yet you have scraped the depths of their sound bite barrel to produce some of your questions. This one takes the cake! We know, based on empirical data that when Roe vs Wade went into effect, the rates of abortions spiked astronomically to around 1,500,000 per year. That was clearly due to the legalization of abortion. So it is logical to assume that the reversal of Roe vs Wade would have the opposite effect.
Your question is not a challenge simply to pro life laws. It is a challenge to all laws. Can you point to a single reputable study showing that criminalizing the killing of newborn infants curbs that killing? Can you point to a single reputable study showing that criminalizing the killing of black people curbs that killing? Can you point to a reputable study showing that criminalizing the killing of people who are gay, or who wear MAGA hats, or who cheer for any opposing football team curbs that killing? These are rhetorical questions because I already know there are none. And since there are none, should we legalize the killing of newborns, toddlers, blacks, MAGA hat wearers, etc? Would you seriously advoate any of that? If not, why would you use that spurious argument to justify the killing of unborn children.
The law is many things. But one of the most important things which the law should be is a teacher. Many people assume that if something is legal, it is morally okay. That is a fact which governs the thinking of many people who are not well informed about a lot of things. That is why we need laws to reflect the value and sanctity of all human life.
You might not think this is important. It was the same in the days of slavery when many people — even ministers of the gospel — did not think that the full humanity of black people was an important issue; certainly not one which should mean they have to give up their slaves. But we know today how wrong that thinking is. In the same way, our great great grandchildren will be appalled at how our generation has taken such a casual and barbarically cruel approach to the treatment of our most innocent and precious members of society — truly “the least of these”.
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Mel: Wow! Thanks for that comprehensive response. Shades of the “Handmaid’s Tale!”
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Revolsen. “Handmaids Tale”???
Nothing in my posts or in the pro life movement resemble anything close to that. There is no “Gilead”, no “Offreds”, no concubinage, no forced impregnation, no commanders overseeing the sexual activities of anyone. Indeed much of what is described in that fictional dystopian society would be diametrically opposed to the aims and goals of the pro life movement. Protecting the lives of children who are already created is not the same thing as forcing women to become pregnant. Surely you can see that!
You either unable or unwilling to address the points which I raised with respect to the very real and often serious persecution of young people (and others) in the pro life community now taking place in America. Nor are you willing to admit that there was anything wrong with the State authorized fine of 135,000 US dollars against the bakers for upholding their legitimate and reasonable Christian beliefs on the sanctity of marriage — something which even President Obama stated he believed when he as a candidate for the office of POTUS.
So what you are doing now is resorting to the age old sophistry of creating a straw man. It is a straw man which is intentionally designed to create a false narrative which will incite emotions of hatred and outrage. And it has been a very successful straw man, which has poisoned the minds of millions of people against those who stand for LIFE and who uphold the truth.
That is slander by any definition! It is, once again, the intentional bearing of false witness.
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I don’t see standing strong on my faith as being a bully. That is very flawed logic. I’ve never beat up, named called, or refused assistance to, or just been mean to someone that isn’t a Christian. Explaining what the Bible says to non-believers, or those who water down the Gospel, isbnot bullying. Just like when I explain what I expect from my children to my children. You are confusing telling people about sinful behavior and hatred. They are not the same. Jesus loves us each and everyone, and I have to hear my preacher tell me about sin and a lot of the time he is talking about things I do. He doesn’t hate me for telling me about my sin, he loves me. If he didn’t tell me about what is sin, he wouldn’t be doing his job.
And yes Christians ARE being persecuted.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-48146305
https://savethepersecutedchristians.org/persecution-by-the-numbers/
And it’s interesting for you to say earlier that you don’t have a problem with Republicans or Trump, but Sound full of distain for “Trump supporters”
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Ashamed: Re-read my letter. You will discover that I did not ever say that Christians are being persecuted throughout the world. In fact, I specifically said the opposite. What I also said is that white evangelical Christians who think they are being persecuted because Starbucks took Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer off its disposable coffee cups, or because Macy’s clerks are wishing them “Happy Holidays” instead of Merry Christmas or because the rest of the world doesn’t accept their religious understanding of marriage or because public schools are not teaching in accord with their peculiar personal ideological views or because they are expected to obey the law like everyone else are deluding themselves. Not getting you way and having to take turns on the playground is not persecution.
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Dear Ashamed (are you actually ashamed to use your real name? How sad is that?) –
Your examples are not an example of persecution; they are an example of a violation of the separation of church and state. A Christian has no more right to force a non-Christian to pray in our tradition than my Jewish friend has the right to force me to pray in her tradition. This is not a ChrIstian nation; it is a nation of immigrants who came here seeking the right to worship as they choose or not to worship at all. Teachers/coaches in a public school who are leading their teams in prayer before a game are the ones engaging in persecution. Illegal persecution, I would guess.
And in fact I was wrong in my earlier statement – the only times I have felt persecution have been when I was confronted by evangelicals who say I am not doing Christianity right. Talk about egocentrism! Wow!
Would it startle you to realize that Jesus was not Christian? Would it startle you to realize that God loves a little Hindu boy or a little Muslim girl every bit as much as God loves you? American Christians do not have a corner on God’s love or God’s care. America is probably not God’s favorite nation. American Christians do not have all the right answers. They (we) would be well-served by developing a little humility.
Blessings on you, Ashamed, and may you soon develop the courage to use your real name.
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Judy. I know your last comment was not addressed to me but it reveals some deep misunderstandings which you have about the kind of evangelical Christianity which Rev Franklin Graham and those who support him follow.
No, it would not surprise Rev Franklin Graham that Jesus is not a Christian. Jesus is the one who Christian’s follow. Pedantic semantics!
No it would not surprise him that God loves little Hindu boys and girls, little Muslim boys and girls, and that He loves them just as much as He loves American boys and girls. That is why Jesus came to die on the Cross. He loves everyone in the whole world. And that is why He offers salvation to all who will believe in Him, whether they are from India, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Chicago or anywhere . And, of course, that is why Rev Franklin Grahams has dedicated his life to spiritually and physically helping boys and girls (and others) like that all over the world, in just about every country possible.
I would think that Rev Franklin Graham would be the least likely to say that God favors American children! Or certainly, given America’s recent track record of extrajudicial and unnecessary killing of over 60 million of its most innocent and vulnerable members of society, since 1973 that America is now acting as a Christian nation. What he might say is that America was founded on principles which recognized the intrinsic right of EVERYONE to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, and that these are Biblically based principles which the founding Fathers established. And that these Scriptural principles are being eroded at a frightening pace in our current political and cultural climate.
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Well, Mel, you’ve kind of taken me out of context. I was not thinking about or referring to Franklin in any way when I wrote that – but I still suspect Ashamed needed to hear it.
And I must say, I certainly agree with your last sentence, anyway!
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Judy. Glad to see that we can agree on some things. 🙂 Have a great Sunday!
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Jesus must be crying to see those who profess his name treating each other with such unkindness. Isn’t there a better way? There is: Love
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Thanks for your comments, Bruce. And yes, love is the better way. But love that is restricted to my own tribe, the people who think like me, vote like me, look like me and worship like me is not really love-at least not the kind Jesus teaches. And the kind of religion that lifts up Donald Trump as the “champion” of Christians-a mean who unrepentantly boasts of molesting women, ridicules people with special needs and makes repeated openly racist comments has nothing in common with the faith in which I was raised and which I strive to practice. A savior so impotent and desperate that he needs a champion like Donald Trump to protect his church is not worthy of worship and is certainly not the Lord I worship. If I could find a kinder way to say this, I would. But I won’t remain silent.
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Revolsen. When you have to rely on bearing false witness and slander to make your case, you simply perpetuate a false narrative and incite anger and hatred against a person (or a group of people. who you disdain), What you are doing is what you are accusing others (who are not guilty) of doing.
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye” (Matthew 7:3-5)
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i actually took the time to scan the nearly 3000 comments here, and i have to say: protestants like Franklin Graham are the reason i will never leave the Roman Catholic Church in which i was raised.
… and i had such respect and admiration for his father. this is a case of the apple falling very far from the tree.
i suppose that’s the problem with a tree rooted at the pinnacle of a mountain… the fruit will tend to roll downhill…
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I am not Catholic but I agree with your assessment of Franklin – love the analogy of being on the pinnacle!! But please remember that, just as your priest is not indicative of the virtue (or lack thereof) of all Roman Catholic priests, Franklin is not indicative of the virtue (or lack thereof) of all Protestant ministers or all evangelicals. There are good guys and bad guys in every group I can think of.
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Mel I applaud your defense of Franklin Graham. I believe he is a man who is trying to the best of his ability to follow his calling on his life, even as you say he is not perfect. Sadly is does not amaze me that people who call themselves christians attack him, or think they know what is wrong with him. Jesus had naysayers in his day, so I guess Franklin is in good company. This is what bothers me the most, that we attack each other, and the world laughs at us. Jesus said that the world would know us by our love for all of mankind.
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Thank you Dee for your encouraging words. I agree with you that it is so disturbing how some people simply love to attack other Christians who are faithfully doing what God has called them to do serving others in love and compassion and speaking out for the rights of the poor and needy. God bless you.
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I was wishing my niece a happy birthday and noticed the picture of Franklin Graham. It is ALWAYS my inclination to pass by anything he writes or says since his fierce support of Trump the Devil’s latest helper on earth. I didn’t and I am glad. Pastor Peter said it all. I would attend his church because he embodies exactly what Christianity is supposed to be. LOVE, HELP, SERVE YOUR NEIGHBOR, which means everyone that is like you AND different than you. Oh by the way, there were two instances in Trump’s life that Pastor Peter missed that convinced me that he was from the Devil……the night Baton was born Trump spent with a whore and at a speech he was giving when he was running for the nomination, he made fun of a disabled reporter on TV, both in speech and movement, which told me right there the man was not fit to be a human let alone be president!!!
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Amen, Shirley – Amen!!
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Wow, liberal Christians vs conservative Christians. As much as I could stomach reading, it sounds just like political liberals vs political conservatives. What’s sickening is this conversation and the incredible amount of (supposed) Bible interpretation based on your own preconceived political and world views.
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Or maybe our political views are based on our respective readings of the Bible. For my part, I read the Bible through the lens of Jesus who taught that the two great commandments, to love God and love one’s neighbor are the provisions on which all the law and the prophets are to be understood and interpreted. I don’t know whether that makes me conservative or liberal. But whatever I am, I find myself in the company of Jesus, St. Paul, St. Augustine, Martin Luther and numerous other notable preachers and teachers of the Church. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
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